Oh, and the Repliforce goal was to outnumber both the Mavericks and Hunters combined. All I really know is that they had an optional convert (which I don't think really anyone took?) until two nights ago, when it became non-optional just in time for me :P. And then a vig, and guard maybe? Not too sure on the rest of the abilities. . .
Question, Romantic Undead: Why the heck were we considered "neutrals"?
It's not RU's fault. The village's goal is for each member to survive to the end.
The thing is that the Maverick's goal is to kill everyone else. Which is easily figured out for anyone with half a brain.
No, no it's not. The Mavericks' goals weren't necessarily to kill everyone. Even ignoring the source material (which is clearly not always "kill everyone"), a just as viable "end game scenario" would just be that when they outnumber their competitors they convert everyone still neutral. Actually, I'd say that's even more likely.
Just, being called "neutral" and having the win condition of "survive," but then going directly contrary to that is odd.
Good game RU, I really did enjoy it. My power was never actually useful, but that's mostly my fault probably.
Kime you have the worst insticts. You're arguing hypotheticals and crying hindsight, when in fact many others figured this shit out almost from the get-go.
Question, Romantic Undead: Why the heck were we considered "neutrals"?
It's not RU's fault. The village's goal is for each member to survive to the end.
The thing is that the Maverick's goal is to kill everyone else. Which is easily figured out for anyone with half a brain.
No, no it's not. The Mavericks' goals weren't necessarily to kill everyone. Even ignoring the source material (which is clearly not always "kill everyone"), a just as viable "end game scenario" would just be that when they outnumber their competitors they convert everyone still neutral. Actually, I'd say that's even more likely.
Just, being called "neutral" and having the win condition of "survive," but then going directly contrary to that is odd.
Good game RU, I really did enjoy it. My power was never actually useful, but that's mostly my fault probably.
Kime you have the worst insticts. You're arguing hypotheticals and crying hindsight, when in fact many others figured this shit out almost from the get-go.
Some of us didn't know how many Mavericks or Hunters there were, or how fast they converted. And by some of us, I mean most of us.
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KeikaDelectable tea, or deadly poison?Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Hey!! What about Bubble Crab? I need some love as one of the surviving Mavericks too!
Keika on
"My fancies are fireflies / Specks of living light / twinkling in the dark." ~Rabindranath Tagore
Question, Romantic Undead: Why the heck were we considered "neutrals"?
It's not RU's fault. The village's goal is for each member to survive to the end.
The thing is that the Maverick's goal is to kill everyone else. Which is easily figured out for anyone with half a brain.
No, no it's not. The Mavericks' goals weren't necessarily to kill everyone. Even ignoring the source material (which is clearly not always "kill everyone"), a just as viable "end game scenario" would just be that when they outnumber their competitors they convert everyone still neutral. Actually, I'd say that's even more likely.
Just, being called "neutral" and having the win condition of "survive," but then going directly contrary to that is odd.
Good game RU, I really did enjoy it. My power was never actually useful, but that's mostly my fault probably.
Kime you have the worst insticts. You're arguing hypotheticals and crying hindsight, when in fact many others figured this shit out almost from the get-go.
Yeah, it wasn't exactly surprising when I got my new victory condition PM. I had been making the damn argument in thread for days, but did you listen? Nooooo.
Rend's wall of text critted the whole damn village and y'all deserved to lose.
enlightenedbum on
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Dusdais ashamed of this postSLC, UTRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Fadingathedges and The_Reflection were converts. Ryadic, were you a maverick from the beginning, or was I seriously the only remaining original maverick aside from Sigma?
Also, I had no idea who Sigma was the entire time. Probably a wise move, after what happened to Marsh. I was so freaked out about possibly killing him over the last few days...
Kime you have the worst insticts. You're arguing hypotheticals and crying hindsight, when in fact many others figured this shit out almost from the get-go.
I'm not complaining, I really had fun! And anyways, I didn't even lose to that, I'm no longer a neutral. So the whole deal didn't even make a difference to me.
But I don't know exactly what you mean by "arguing hypotheticals"? And yeah, many people probably thought that from the beginning, and it turns out they were right, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't set in stone or completely obvious or anything.
Question, Romantic Undead: Why the heck were we considered "neutrals"?
THIS.
I am a bit perturbed that I was considered a 'neutral' even though I could not win with the "bad guy" faction. I was not neutral, I was a villager! Just a villager, not neutral. If I were neutral, then surviving until the end would win the game for me. Gah. Seriously, that one word shaped my entire play style the whole game. I was operating under the assumption that if I was alive when the game ended, that I would win.
Gah. It was a fun ride, but I am sorely displeased about the wording of my win condition. If it had occurred to me as a possibility, even once, that I could not win with a faction, I would have played this like a villager, not as a neutral.
Question, Romantic Undead: Why the heck were we considered "neutrals"?
THIS.
I am a bit perturbed that I was considered a 'neutral' even though I could not win with the "bad guy" faction. I was not neutral, I was a villager! Just a villager, not neutral. If I were neutral, then surviving until the end would win the game for me. Gah. Seriously, that one word shaped my entire play style the whole game. I was operating under the assumption that if I was alive when the game ended, that I would win.
Gah. It was a fun ride, but I am sorely displeased about the wording of my win condition. If it had occurred to me as a possibility, even once, that I could not win with a faction, I would have played this like a villager, not as a neutral.
That being said, who killed me?
Well with a little thought that probability would occur but you were too busy railing against me telling you so. Enjoy your loss.
Also, B:L, did you believe what I told you or did you think I was full of shit?
I thought your catapult was full of shit because honestly THAT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA RU.
But I passed on who X was to Abotkin and I really thought Blarney was helping out the Mavericks. Well he was, but he was just another stupid villager.
Oh well. I knew it was weird, what with the whole identity crisis thing, but there really wasn't anything else I could have told you. I did want to help the Hunters, though I had a momentary crisis as to whether you actually were a hunter, I did kill Blarney for you.
@B:L-- I did miss that line, yes. And that is strong evidence that we were meaning to kill Mavericks, I agree. However, most Phalla games start out with "vote to kill the bad guys!" And most times, if you get a PM that says "You are neutral and just must survive to win," you don't worry about who gets voted out at all. Surely you can't deny that?
Also, B:L, did you believe what I told you or did you think I was full of shit?
I thought your catapult was full of shit because honestly THAT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA RU.
But I passed on who X was to Abotkin and I really thought Blarney was helping out the Mavericks. Well he was, but he was just another stupid villager.
Oh well. I knew it was weird, what with the whole identity crisis thing, but there really wasn't anything else I could have told you. I did want to help the Hunters, though I had a momentary crisis as to whether you actually were a hunter, I did kill Blarney for you.
No I told you I trusted you and I did. Because you came to be as Magma, and not Flame Stag or anything.
I just didn't trust that whole "catapult" thing. :P
Kime/Rend, the implication is sound but only if you ignore the possible win conditions of the evil group. Which usually results in unilateral slaughter of any unaligned members when they outnumber the village.
The CLUE that they even needed to outnumber the village tells volumes of what they intend to do. So going by mere probability it's best to try and survive with the good guys instead of gambling and hoping the bad guys won't kill you all.
I don't fault specific people too much. In EVERY faction phalla, people seem to love acting against their own best interests.
B:L-- Again though, that doesn't usually apply to neutrals. Bad guys usually "kill" everyone in most Phallas, that's why we stop when they outnumber the village, 'cause we know they could just kill everyone remaining. That still doesn't change the fact that if your goal was to "survive" and you make it to that point, you win. Now, whether it's smart to side with the bad guys is another point.
And again, I was gonna lose this game no matter what. I got converted near the end, I no longer just had to survive.
@B:L-- I did miss that line, yes. And that is strong evidence that we were meaning to kill Mavericks, I agree. However, most Phalla games start out with "vote to kill the bad guys!" And most times, if you get a PM that says "You are neutral and just must survive to win," you don't worry about who gets voted out at all. Surely you can't deny that?
It was clear early on that everyone got that message. Meaning we were special villagers with an annoyingly phrased win condition because of all the converting going on.
Always kill the canonically evil team, unless the set up is that the village is the canonically evil team, in which case you kill the canonically good team.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
@B:L-- I did miss that line, yes. And that is strong evidence that we were meaning to kill Mavericks, I agree. However, most Phalla games start out with "vote to kill the bad guys!" And most times, if you get a PM that says "You are neutral and just must survive to win," you don't worry about who gets voted out at all. Surely you can't deny that?
It was clear early on that everyone got that message. Meaning we were special villagers with an annoyingly phrased win condition because of all the converting going on.
Always kill the canonically evil team, unless the set up is that the village is the canonically evil team, in which case you kill the canonically good team.
This same thing happened in PhalLost. Except then, the neutral village really WAS neutral. Not funny-villagers.
Always kill the canonically evil team, unless the set up is that the village is the canonically evil team, in which case you kill the canonically good team.
Some of us are veterans of the Transformers phalla. You weren't there, man. You don't know what it was like.
@B:L-- I did miss that line, yes. And that is strong evidence that we were meaning to kill Mavericks, I agree. However, most Phalla games start out with "vote to kill the bad guys!" And most times, if you get a PM that says "You are neutral and just must survive to win," you don't worry about who gets voted out at all. Surely you can't deny that?
It was clear early on that everyone got that message. Meaning we were special villagers with an annoyingly phrased win condition because of all the converting going on.
As to everyone getting that message, this reminds me most of the Shin Megami Phalla. Most of the village was neutral and had to survive, there were two factions that converted people. When one of them won, the neutrals didn't die.
So we thought it was a faction Phalla with conversions when in fact it was a traditional game with conversions? *sigh*
No, not we.
You, Rend, Kime, and Andrew Ryan. The rest were just sheep.
I'm just glad that I could help you lose.
Likewise, sir. Likewise!
So you were glad that you helped yourself lose?
Ignorance is bliss after all. ;-)
It may have been against my best interests in the end, but:
1. Having been advertised as a faction phalla, I was playing to my win condition as I saw it
2. Being the public maverick mvp was pretty fun
@B:L-- I did miss that line, yes. And that is strong evidence that we were meaning to kill Mavericks, I agree. However, most Phalla games start out with "vote to kill the bad guys!" And most times, if you get a PM that says "You are neutral and just must survive to win," you don't worry about who gets voted out at all. Surely you can't deny that?
It was clear early on that everyone got that message. Meaning we were special villagers with an annoyingly phrased win condition because of all the converting going on.
Always kill the canonically evil team, unless the set up is that the village is the canonically evil team, in which case you kill the canonically good team.
This makes a lot of sense. I didn't even decide to side with the Hunters when Marsh came out and scared everyone into believing it was impossible for them to win. Even though he made it terribly clear he'd been lying the whole time.
Didn't anyone else think that the whole destruction of Sky Lagoon thing was so awful that you thought "Even if I can, I do not want to win these sons of bitches." It honestly made me think of a real-life terrorist attack, and I was horrified.
You're still arguing about "neutrality", when EVERY SINGLE VILLAGER was a neutral? And when the other side has a classic bad type of role?
Every single villager started neutral. By the end, the majority would not be, probably. Or at least, that's the way you would expect it to be in a faction game that had conversions. If this was a faction game like we thought it was (and like you said in the other thread, but I just pointed that out to annoy you :P), then it doesn't make sense that one of the factions is "evil." That's not really a faction game anymore.
Didn't anyone else think that the whole destruction of Sky Lagoon thing was so awful that you thought "Even if I can, I do not want to win these sons of bitches." It honestly made me think of a real-life terrorist attack, and I was horrified.
Haha aww man, I had the complete opposite reaction. I was all proud of my role in bringing it to fruition. Does that make me a bad person ?
As to everyone getting that message, this reminds me most of the Shin Megami Phalla. Most of the village was neutral and had to survive, there were two factions that converted people. When one of them won, the neutrals didn't die.
The neutrals actually had their own win condition as well.
As to everyone getting that message, this reminds me most of the Shin Megami Phalla. Most of the village was neutral and had to survive, there were two factions that converted people. When one of them won, the neutrals didn't die.
The neutrals actually had their own win condition as well.
Yeah, that was really fucking annoying. Wheeee not having any possible way to win the game besides hope for a conversion? Unless I had a super double secret probation win condition.
Ugh.
enlightenedbum on
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Kime you have the worst insticts. You're arguing hypotheticals and crying hindsight, when in fact many others figured this shit out almost from the get-go.
Some of us didn't know how many Mavericks or Hunters there were, or how fast they converted. And by some of us, I mean most of us.
Yeah, it wasn't exactly surprising when I got my new victory condition PM. I had been making the damn argument in thread for days, but did you listen? Nooooo.
Rend's wall of text critted the whole damn village and y'all deserved to lose.
Also, I had no idea who Sigma was the entire time. Probably a wise move, after what happened to Marsh. I was so freaked out about possibly killing him over the last few days...
But I don't know exactly what you mean by "arguing hypotheticals"? And yeah, many people probably thought that from the beginning, and it turns out they were right, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't set in stone or completely obvious or anything.
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I thought your catapult was full of shit because honestly THAT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA RU.
But I passed on who X was to Abotkin and I really thought Blarney was helping out the Mavericks. Well he was, but he was just another stupid villager.
THIS.
I am a bit perturbed that I was considered a 'neutral' even though I could not win with the "bad guy" faction. I was not neutral, I was a villager! Just a villager, not neutral. If I were neutral, then surviving until the end would win the game for me. Gah. Seriously, that one word shaped my entire play style the whole game. I was operating under the assumption that if I was alive when the game ended, that I would win.
Gah. It was a fun ride, but I am sorely displeased about the wording of my win condition. If it had occurred to me as a possibility, even once, that I could not win with a faction, I would have played this like a villager, not as a neutral.
That being said, who killed me?
Well with a little thought that probability would occur but you were too busy railing against me telling you so. Enjoy your loss.
Kime,
Maan if only it were obvious!
Oh well. I knew it was weird, what with the whole identity crisis thing, but there really wasn't anything else I could have told you. I did want to help the Hunters, though I had a momentary crisis as to whether you actually were a hunter, I did kill Blarney for you.
I did think about the possibility. A lot. I dismissed it, because, you know, my win condition said I needed to survive until the end.
That kind of brings with it some HEAVY IMPLICATIONS.
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i did basically nothing, skipped the entirety of this game, then won.
go me!
No I told you I trusted you and I did. Because you came to be as Magma, and not Flame Stag or anything.
I just didn't trust that whole "catapult" thing. :P
Kime/Rend, the implication is sound but only if you ignore the possible win conditions of the evil group. Which usually results in unilateral slaughter of any unaligned members when they outnumber the village.
The CLUE that they even needed to outnumber the village tells volumes of what they intend to do. So going by mere probability it's best to try and survive with the good guys instead of gambling and hoping the bad guys won't kill you all.
I don't fault specific people too much. In EVERY faction phalla, people seem to love acting against their own best interests.
B:L-- Again though, that doesn't usually apply to neutrals. Bad guys usually "kill" everyone in most Phallas, that's why we stop when they outnumber the village, 'cause we know they could just kill everyone remaining. That still doesn't change the fact that if your goal was to "survive" and you make it to that point, you win. Now, whether it's smart to side with the bad guys is another point.
And again, I was gonna lose this game no matter what. I got converted near the end, I no longer just had to survive.
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It was clear early on that everyone got that message. Meaning we were special villagers with an annoyingly phrased win condition because of all the converting going on.
Always kill the canonically evil team, unless the set up is that the village is the canonically evil team, in which case you kill the canonically good team.
This same thing happened in PhalLost. Except then, the neutral village really WAS neutral. Not funny-villagers.
Some of us are veterans of the Transformers phalla. You weren't there, man. You don't know what it was like.
No, not we.
You, Rend, Kime, and Andrew Ryan. The rest were just sheep.
I'm just glad that I could help you lose.
As to everyone getting that message, this reminds me most of the Shin Megami Phalla. Most of the village was neutral and had to survive, there were two factions that converted people. When one of them won, the neutrals didn't die.
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Likewise, sir. Likewise!
So you were glad that you helped yourself lose?
Ignorance is bliss after all. ;-)
Sorry B:L, but umm. . . But anyways, next time that happens we'll have to ask the host who's out to kill everyone :P.
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It may have been against my best interests in the end, but:
1. Having been advertised as a faction phalla, I was playing to my win condition as I saw it
2. Being the public maverick mvp was pretty fun
I was just a guy with an even day Vig. kill, trying to help the Hunters and make it through.
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What is your point?
You're still arguing about "neutrality", when EVERY SINGLE VILLAGER was a neutral? And when the other side has a classic bad type of role?
O_o So bitter! It feels like you're blaming me. I'm just voicing things from my personal perspective.
But I did have fun with the game regardless of the ambiguity. The narrations were quite good!
This makes a lot of sense. I didn't even decide to side with the Hunters when Marsh came out and scared everyone into believing it was impossible for them to win. Even though he made it terribly clear he'd been lying the whole time.
Didn't anyone else think that the whole destruction of Sky Lagoon thing was so awful that you thought "Even if I can, I do not want to win these sons of bitches." It honestly made me think of a real-life terrorist attack, and I was horrified.
Which, of course, it turns out this wasn't.
Haha aww man, I had the complete opposite reaction. I was all proud of my role in bringing it to fruition. Does that make me a bad person
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I'm in Bitter:Lemon mode. Don't take anything I say personally because it's not meant as such.
Except towards Kime. Hate.
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The neutrals actually had their own win condition as well.
Also:
enlightenedbum: Crystal Snail
kime: Tunnel Rhino
kuhlmeye: Dark Dizzy
MacGuffin: Crush Crawfish
Osvik: Colonel
Magna Centipede: Witch Doctor, DBM
Launch Octopus: Zellpher
Overdrive Ostrich: Tertiee
Slash Beast: Micro
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Yeah, that was really fucking annoying. Wheeee not having any possible way to win the game besides hope for a conversion? Unless I had a super double secret probation win condition.
Ugh.