Caught up through the thread and don't remember anyone bringing up John Doe from Se7en. Somerset too for that matter. Both fascinating characters who have almost identical views of the world we live in, but with drastically different approaches to dealing with that.
Also, I looked to see if a separate thread was spawned and didn't see any, so my take on the soprano's ending is spoilered for those who might care:
I believe he was killed. I've read both sides of the argument thoroughly and rewatched the scene several times. I do like the idea of 'it was a glimpse into how Tony lives his life in total paranoia and the show ends with the knowledge that he will live that way for the rest of his days' ending and I wanted to believe that was how it was intended, but I can't. For me, it was the choice made by Chase to:
1. Have Tony and Bobby specifically talk about what death is like when they were out fishing that one time like 6 episodes before the finale, with Bobby saying "I think you don't see nothing...just everything goes dark, blank screen" (paraphrased).
2. Re-run that exact episode immediately prior to the finale (can't remember if it was immediately prior or if they just did a re-run the week before the finale of this episode, either way he definitely showed it again).
3. And I think he even included a flash-back to that scene/discussion in the finale, yes?
It's true that there's a ton of possible imagery in that final scene, and a lot of it might be completely bogus, but the whole deal w/ the orange cat is a big one for me too. That wall was specifically changed to be a giant tiger, which ties to the orange cat that stared at Chris's picture that creeped Tony out.
I do agree that the way it was executed, with half of the people thinking their cable went out for a few seconds there, made it feel more 'open to interpretation' than it truly is. I can absolutely see how someone would believe it's ambiguous or even that he lived, but for my part I believe he's dead and that's how it was intended...
Here is a guy who is nearly a perfect leader, only wants to do what is right, always focused but always has to be restrained and cant let go. Lost his parents and stayed in a foster home until the Prof brought him to the school and completely bought into the dream and now is taking it and changing it. I know he gets a bunch of shit for being a boy scout but I like that about him. On top of that he always takes shit from Wolverine, but Wolverine respects him because Cyclops holds himself to a higher standard than the people he leads.
He-Man
When I was young, this was the first cartoon I ever watched. I still get chills watching the opening. I have vivid memories of watching an episode when I was 3 called, "The Diamond Ray of Disappearance" where He-Man through sheer Mother fraking will crushes this diamond that could potentially cause him to disappear if he fails. He just never gives up and that is what makes me always remember this character.
Captain Benjamen Sisko
Tough, but has a lighter side. Prohet and Commander. Told the Dominion to go fuck themselves. Drew the Romulans into a war under false pretenses but did what he had to. Raised a son on his own after losing his wife at Wolf 359. Rebuilt his life while rebuilding Bajor after the Cardassian Occupation. Just all around bad ass.
Quote : So... I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Garak was right about one thing: a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it... Because I can live with it... I can live with it... Computer - erase that entire personal log.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Optimus Prime (Transformers G1): This is doubtless nostalgia speaking, but in Optimus Prime I see fictionalized what I want to see in a leader. Powerful, humble, brilliant, loyal, and willing to risk everything for what's right. Amazing.
Yossarian from Catch-22 and Francis Thurston from The Call of Cthulhu. I love them because they find themselves in situations where they realize how utterly and totally helpless a human being can be. People die, get hurt, and worse; and there is often nothing you can do about it.
And my last pick is somewhat odd, considering I only tend to like characters that display a certain degree of depth. But Ganandorf from the Zelda franchise is someone who really appeals to me. His back story is limited, and he's a pretty flat character, but he represents a relentless and unending sense of ambition that I can't help but admire. For thousands of years he fights for his goal, and neither heroes, nor gods, nor death itself can stop him.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Roland Deschain yet.
From the Old World, wielding six-shooters, leading a rag-tag team across multiple worlds while following the beam only to fight the most evil of all evils along the way. He lost everything, regained some, and lost it all over again. Its amazing the depth King put into Roland (and the supporting cast around him as well).
Never would have made it anywhere without Cuthbert and Eddie Dean. I admire Roland for being such an utter bastard that refused to give in and die, but I think the greatest thing about him is that he recognizes his lack of humanity in the face of his drive. He relies on the humanity of Cuthbert, even in memory, and that makes him that much stronger.
Caught up through the thread and don't remember anyone bringing up John Doe from Se7en. Somerset too for that matter. Both fascinating characters who have almost identical views of the world we live in, but with drastically different approaches to dealing with that.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty messed up right there. I'm fairly certain he's not meant to be a sympathetic or admirable character.
Yossarian from Catch-22 and Francis Thurston from The Call of Cthulhu. I love them because they find themselves in situations where they realize how utterly and totally helpless a human being can be. People die, get hurt, and worse; and there is often nothing you can do about it.
I love Yossarian for being a heroic coward. Seriously, in an environment like that it probably takes more courage to stand up to his commanders and not fly those missions than it would to actually fly them. I love the idea of a war novel where rather than cheering people for their heroic sacrifices and willingness to die for their country the hero is a man who simply doesn't want to die.
I've only read a few stories with him so far (the ones in Young Miles), but I love the guy. Basically operates on pure balls.
Yes and yes. Miles is 10 times fantastic. Just... oh just read them books people, you won't be dissappointed.
His mother, Cordelia, is pretty awesome too. And his dad. And Bothari. And even Ivan. Damn, Bujold just writes up awesome characters all day.
Another vote for Ben Linus. He's an evil, evil genius.
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life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Justin Crowe - The nasty priest from Carnivale, played by the always imposing Clancy motherfucking Brown. He's like an evil Gaius Baltar. You just think... where is he going with this? Oh god no!
Speaking of... Gaius Baltar. The reason that every show needs a token Brit. I just love how he can't not fuck up in horrendous ways, even when hes trying to do right, and is in fact, almost consistenly the most right on the show, he just implements good views badly. Challenge a fascist regime - Check. OOPS, that ends badly. Be the first human NOT to be a robot hating racist - Check--- and yet somehow everyone seems to end up hating him, like, costantly.
I second George from Dead Like Me. Its nice to see a) a woman who is not hollywood pretty in a lead role, and b) a fleshed out female lead who feels REAL, where she is not constantly boy crazy. Also, the fact that she reminds me vaguely of a live action Daria also wins points.
Oooh... Daria! My childhood icon!
Man, this could go on all day so i'll try and slow down and do 3 more:
Brendan from the movie Brick... I love that he basically sets out from the start to just get beaten up until he finds out what he wants to know.
Someone who goes even further than that... The Marquis de Carabas from Neverwhere. Morally Grey, full of snark and utterly badass. Much like,
Mal from Firefly! Yay!
Honourable mention: The teacher from Malcolm in the Middle played by Chris Eigemann... a former 'smart kid' who essentially hates his job and his students and tells them how shit life will be for them (the gifted kids) pretty much all the time. As a young child watching the show, it was great to see someone in a position of authority be so brutally honest and occasionally manipulative. He was like the House of teachers, and never got enough screen time
As far as evil characters go, there's always Jason Compson (I think somebody mentioned Quentin) and of course Humbert Humbert, probably one of the most interesting villains I'm familiar with in a novel. Both very bad people...but very, very good characters.
Dmitri is absolutely a scoundrel for making off with the money; he takes after his father with his mannerisms of wanton partying, woman, and wild times. The smoldering anger he feels for his father is rightfully deserved, but one can never quite imagine him being responsible for the murder of his father. Smerdyakov comes off as being too witty and manipulative; he's cold, and calculating, and his final words to Ivan have a profound effect on both Ivan and the reader. Alyosha has a genuine warmth to him; he's the kind of person that you'd enjoy to have in your company. His transition from monk to skeptic is a path many can empathize with. Ivan is much like Smerdyakov, he's relatively forgettable until his antics in defense of his brother. His "Tale of the Grand Inquisitor" is absolutely gobsmacking awesome though even if read as a standalone.
(I hope that doesn't spoil the story for anyone as it it absolutely worth the read when you can find the time.)
From Cien Años de Soledad: (Read it in Spanish if you can; English is okay too)
Úrsula sticks out in my mind, especially given the numerous repetitions of José, Arcadio, José Arcadio, Aureliano,etc. She puts up with the crazy antics of her husband --watches in horror as he transforms her dowry into a molten pile of alchemical goo, among many things -- and keeps the nucleus of the family together despite the "absence" of José Arcadio Buendía. Her caramel animal business keeps the family from starving --but also allows her husband to maintain his crazy pursuits instead of doing useful endeavors. She is a fiercely independent woman and acts as the voice of reason within a family full of crazy people. You really have to read the book to get the gist of what I'm saying.
His character arc from... incompetent comic relief ---> Serious booksmart man with a little more attitude (Giles Mk II) --> Lovelorn heartbroken guy who makes the hard choices --> ZOMG! He's Batman!
Its the biggest turnaround of a character i've ever really seen, and yet it is all pretty believable. Angel is basically just 'lets break Wes: A play in 5 acts'. Great character.
Also, Lucien LaCroix - from canadian cheesy vampire detective show Forever Knight. All he does is snark, but he does it so well.
So deadpan too. Just the looks he gives Nick after instances like this: 'oops you accidentally killed the love of your life again? Whilst trying to turn her into a Vampire? --> Thats right. Nick Knight sucks as a vampire AND a mortal
Richard the III seconded.... although how you follow that up immediately endorsing why we should give more affection to characters who are not "mentally unbalanced, barely-restrained" people is pretty funny
I get why you like the big S. But I loathe him. He's just too overpowered and the way that power is oft associated with AMERICA annoys me. If you ask people about a an american superhero embodying patriotism, I bet you'd get Superman way more than Captain America... who is actually fairly judgemental about the politics of his country. Also... he seems to lack personality.
Sorry to vent... something about Superman just irks me greatly
Caught up through the thread and don't remember anyone bringing up John Doe from Se7en. Somerset too for that matter. Both fascinating characters who have almost identical views of the world we live in, but with drastically different approaches to dealing with that.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty messed up right there. I'm fairly certain he's not meant to be a sympathetic or admirable character.
I thought 'memorable' was another criteria. Other villains have been mentioned. Certainly he's not admirable in any way shape or form, but he was absolutely fascinating and memorable. Somerset himself was almost enthralled by him...
Caught up through the thread and don't remember anyone bringing up John Doe from Se7en. Somerset too for that matter. Both fascinating characters who have almost identical views of the world we live in, but with drastically different approaches to dealing with that.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty messed up right there. I'm fairly certain he's not meant to be a sympathetic or admirable character.
I thought 'memorable' was another criteria. Other villains have been mentioned. Certainly he's not admirable in any way shape or form, but he was absolutely fascinating and memorable. Somerset himself was almost enthralled by him...
Fair enough. I read "favorite" in the thread title with a more positive connotation. Some villains can be memorable in a positive way - Irenicus is almost sympathetic, Scar is strikingly clever - which is why I glossed past those earlier in the thread.
John Doe, however, is not memorable in any positive sense. He is pretty much the epitome of pure malice, which is why I was confused.
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
YES! Not enough lime in the world for that one... Though actually it's Lucas Buck. Amusingly enough, Lucas Black was the name of the actor who played the kid (Caleb) in the show.
doh... it's been so long...
god, he was so deliciously evil.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
YES! Not enough lime in the world for that one... Though actually it's Lucas Buck. Amusingly enough, Lucas Black was the name of the actor who played the kid (Caleb) in the show.
Richard the III seconded.... although how you follow that up immediately endorsing why we should give more affection to characters who are not "mentally unbalanced, barely-restrained" people is pretty funny
I get why you like the big S. But I loathe him. He's just too overpowered and the way that power is oft associated with AMERICA annoys me. If you ask people about a an american superhero embodying patriotism, I bet you'd get Superman way more than Captain America... who is actually fairly judgemental about the politics of his country. Also... he seems to lack personality.
Sorry to vent... something about Superman just irks me greatly
Not to derail, but Capt. America is fairly judgmental about the politics of his country because he subscribes the the ideals the country represents, and laws often do not.
There's a big difference between patriotism and jingoism.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Game character: Kreia from KOTOR II. Arguably the best written female character in any game. I ended up playing my character in order to please her because I was intrigued by the depth of her character and motivation.
Book character: Tenar/Goha from the 4th Earthsea book, Tehanu. It's rare for a fantasy novel to focus on the daily lives of characters who are outwardly powerless. I suppose I empathized with her.
I'm dredging up a quote from the past, but I 100% agree.
Kvothe from The Name of the Wind is a great character who is so quintessentially wise and lively in spite of his losses.
Tyrion from ASoIAF for being the projection of every single nerd's ideal. An unloved dwarf, he reaches the top through cunning and raw battle-axe badassery.
Not to derail, but Capt. America is fairly judgmental about the politics of his country because he subscribes the the ideals the country represents, and laws often do not.
There's a big difference between patriotism and jingoism
I think thats sorta what I was getting at in a way. Superman is associated with America in this sort of Supes = big and strong and powerful and fights evil! So does AMERICA!
Hurm... Yeah there was a point but i've lost it again, sorry . I was trying to say something about Captain America = ideals of country wheras Superman, to my mind has always came across as justification that America IS ideal.
I would say that patriotism and jingoism have become dangerously conflated to the point where I feel comfortable using the term as a negative, though you are technically correct.
I understand what you're trying to say. Superman is perceived as the personification of America, even though someone like Captain America actually pursues its ideals while Kent mostly hits things hard?
He's the kind of wonderful character that you can only get in small bits but the bits you get are wonderful.
You are aware that Creed Bratton is playing himself, aren't you? He used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots, and now he plays a burned out ex-hippie klepto that used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots.
He's the kind of wonderful character that you can only get in small bits but the bits you get are wonderful.
You are aware that Creed Bratton is playing himself, aren't you? He used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots, and now he plays a burned out ex-hippie klepto that used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots.
I've never heard of the grass roots, are they any good?
At first I didn't like Creed because he was too much of a non sequitur go to guy, and back when the mains were still doing material based on the British version, he looked pretty bad as one of the only original characters.
Once the show hit its own stride he started to fit in more as they gave him more and more risky/creepy things to say.
I wonder if they'll ever try giving him a story. They can't do too many interviews with him because he never breaks "character" within the show, so to speak.
I've always really liked Xavier St. Cloud from Highlander the television series. Played by the former lead singer of Fine Young Cannibals, he had this ruthlessness to him that just wasn't present in any of the other characters. Most of the other immortals, even evil ones would follow these unwritten rules as to how to fight other immortals, bladed weapon only, just two of you then you have a proper fight and all that. Then here comes Xavier, bringing guns and chemical weapons to sword fights. He's a bastard, knows he's a bastard and doesn't care as he stands over your bullet-riddled body to take your head while you can't fight back.
You are aware that Creed Bratton is playing himself, aren't you? He used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots, and now he plays a burned out ex-hippie klepto that used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots.
I've been watching the Bourne Trilogy this week and god damn if he doesn't steal every scene he's in. Just the way he plans eight steps ahead of the opposition, always keeping his cool is really entertaining to watch. By the third film he's an old pro, and even the higher ups are cowering in fear of Mr. Bourne.
He's the kind of wonderful character that you can only get in small bits but the bits you get are wonderful.
You are aware that Creed Bratton is playing himself, aren't you? He used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots, and now he plays a burned out ex-hippie klepto that used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots.
No, Creed Bratton is actually being played by the guy he stole from.
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
I've only read page 1 and 11, but I was about to come in here and make an Office reference (American version). I see I was beaten to the punch. Anyway, I was going to say Michael Scott and Dwight Schrute. I didn't like either of them very much at first, but eventually they grew on me.
I like Michael Scott because he does a lot of stupid, insensitive stuff but I feel like I can't fault him because even though he's doing the wrong things, he's trying so hard to do them for the right reasons. I like Dwight because he's so eccentric, but he does what he wants and he doesn't really care what other people say.
I actually really hate Creed. I'd put him in the characters I hate thread. He has his moments, but mostly he just seems like a worthless dirtbag.
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Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
Dmitri is absolutely a scoundrel for making off with the money; he takes after his father with his mannerisms of wanton partying, woman, and wild times. The smoldering anger he feels for his father is rightfully deserved, but one can never quite imagine him being responsible for the murder of his father. Smerdyakov comes off as being too witty and manipulative; he's cold, and calculating, and his final words to Ivan have a profound effect on both Ivan and the reader. Alyosha is a genuine warmth to him; he's the kind of person that you'd enjoy to have in your company. His transition from monk to skeptic is a path many can empathize with. Ivan is much like Smerdyakov, he's relatively forgettable until his antics in defense of his brother. His "Tale of the Grand Inquisitor" is absolutely gobsmacking awesome though even if read as a standalone.
Limed for great Justice.
Also, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead". The ending scene of that play really does it for me.
Kreia from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. The character is just very interesting, especially for a Star Wars game. She's like an evil, manipulative Yoda. Her voice actor is great as well. She's what Palpatine should have been in the prequels.
Jack from Samurai Jack. Seemingly a paragon of warrior virtue who actually still makes human mistakes. Plus that glimpse of him at the end of his journey, ready to go through the portal was all kinds of badass. Like King Arthur and Toyotomi Hideyoshi mashed into one.
Jack from Samurai Jack. Seemingly a paragon of warrior virtue who actually still makes human mistakes. Plus that glimpse of him at the end of his journey, ready to go through the portal was all kinds of badass. Like King Arthur and Toyotomi Hideyoshi mashed into one.
I like how you said that Aku was one of the worst characters ever in the other thread. That's just hilarious.
Jack from Samurai Jack. Seemingly a paragon of warrior virtue who actually still makes human mistakes. Plus that glimpse of him at the end of his journey, ready to go through the portal was all kinds of badass. Like King Arthur and Toyotomi Hideyoshi mashed into one.
I like how you said that Aku was one of the worst characters ever in the other thread. That's just hilarious.
This is probs a cliche answer, but I can only hope my reason is original.
Chrono from Chrono Trigger
He doesn't have a single fucking line of dialogue.
I think, at least.
He does in one of the hidden endings, although its nothing profound. Crono is also one of my favorite characters. When he died in the game I was crushed. And no, I'm not putting spoiler tags around a super popular SNES game.
Nevermind that it was just re-released on the DS for a whole new generation, and a whole continent that never even got the game.
I dunno, I could never relate to Chrono. He was a blank slate silent type like Link, but didn't pull it off as well.
Love the game,
but when Chrono died, and I finally got to organize my party the way I wanted to, I almost didn't go back for the guy. Who wants an animu sword guy when you have a cave woman that can toss creatures five times her size like boulders?
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Also, I looked to see if a separate thread was spawned and didn't see any, so my take on the soprano's ending is spoilered for those who might care:
1. Have Tony and Bobby specifically talk about what death is like when they were out fishing that one time like 6 episodes before the finale, with Bobby saying "I think you don't see nothing...just everything goes dark, blank screen" (paraphrased).
2. Re-run that exact episode immediately prior to the finale (can't remember if it was immediately prior or if they just did a re-run the week before the finale of this episode, either way he definitely showed it again).
3. And I think he even included a flash-back to that scene/discussion in the finale, yes?
It's true that there's a ton of possible imagery in that final scene, and a lot of it might be completely bogus, but the whole deal w/ the orange cat is a big one for me too. That wall was specifically changed to be a giant tiger, which ties to the orange cat that stared at Chris's picture that creeped Tony out.
I do agree that the way it was executed, with half of the people thinking their cable went out for a few seconds there, made it feel more 'open to interpretation' than it truly is. I can absolutely see how someone would believe it's ambiguous or even that he lived, but for my part I believe he's dead and that's how it was intended...
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Here is a guy who is nearly a perfect leader, only wants to do what is right, always focused but always has to be restrained and cant let go. Lost his parents and stayed in a foster home until the Prof brought him to the school and completely bought into the dream and now is taking it and changing it. I know he gets a bunch of shit for being a boy scout but I like that about him. On top of that he always takes shit from Wolverine, but Wolverine respects him because Cyclops holds himself to a higher standard than the people he leads.
He-Man
When I was young, this was the first cartoon I ever watched. I still get chills watching the opening. I have vivid memories of watching an episode when I was 3 called, "The Diamond Ray of Disappearance" where He-Man through sheer Mother fraking will crushes this diamond that could potentially cause him to disappear if he fails. He just never gives up and that is what makes me always remember this character.
Captain Benjamen Sisko
Tough, but has a lighter side. Prohet and Commander. Told the Dominion to go fuck themselves. Drew the Romulans into a war under false pretenses but did what he had to. Raised a son on his own after losing his wife at Wolf 359. Rebuilt his life while rebuilding Bajor after the Cardassian Occupation. Just all around bad ass.
Quote : So... I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Garak was right about one thing: a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it... Because I can live with it... I can live with it... Computer - erase that entire personal log.
Nostalgia. Suuuuuuure.
And my last pick is somewhat odd, considering I only tend to like characters that display a certain degree of depth. But Ganandorf from the Zelda franchise is someone who really appeals to me. His back story is limited, and he's a pretty flat character, but he represents a relentless and unending sense of ambition that I can't help but admire. For thousands of years he fights for his goal, and neither heroes, nor gods, nor death itself can stop him.
Never would have made it anywhere without Cuthbert and Eddie Dean. I admire Roland for being such an utter bastard that refused to give in and die, but I think the greatest thing about him is that he recognizes his lack of humanity in the face of his drive. He relies on the humanity of Cuthbert, even in memory, and that makes him that much stronger.
I'm sorry, but that's pretty messed up right there. I'm fairly certain he's not meant to be a sympathetic or admirable character.
I love Yossarian for being a heroic coward. Seriously, in an environment like that it probably takes more courage to stand up to his commanders and not fly those missions than it would to actually fly them. I love the idea of a war novel where rather than cheering people for their heroic sacrifices and willingness to die for their country the hero is a man who simply doesn't want to die.
Yes and yes. Miles is 10 times fantastic. Just... oh just read them books people, you won't be dissappointed.
His mother, Cordelia, is pretty awesome too. And his dad. And Bothari. And even Ivan. Damn, Bujold just writes up awesome characters all day.
Another vote for Ben Linus. He's an evil, evil genius.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Speaking of... Gaius Baltar. The reason that every show needs a token Brit. I just love how he can't not fuck up in horrendous ways, even when hes trying to do right, and is in fact, almost consistenly the most right on the show, he just implements good views badly. Challenge a fascist regime - Check. OOPS, that ends badly. Be the first human NOT to be a robot hating racist - Check--- and yet somehow everyone seems to end up hating him, like, costantly.
I second George from Dead Like Me. Its nice to see a) a woman who is not hollywood pretty in a lead role, and b) a fleshed out female lead who feels REAL, where she is not constantly boy crazy. Also, the fact that she reminds me vaguely of a live action Daria also wins points.
Oooh... Daria! My childhood icon!
Man, this could go on all day so i'll try and slow down and do 3 more:
Brendan from the movie Brick... I love that he basically sets out from the start to just get beaten up until he finds out what he wants to know.
Someone who goes even further than that... The Marquis de Carabas from Neverwhere. Morally Grey, full of snark and utterly badass. Much like,
Mal from Firefly! Yay!
Honourable mention: The teacher from Malcolm in the Middle played by Chris Eigemann... a former 'smart kid' who essentially hates his job and his students and tells them how shit life will be for them (the gifted kids) pretty much all the time. As a young child watching the show, it was great to see someone in a position of authority be so brutally honest and occasionally manipulative. He was like the House of teachers, and never got enough screen time
Dmitri is absolutely a scoundrel for making off with the money; he takes after his father with his mannerisms of wanton partying, woman, and wild times. The smoldering anger he feels for his father is rightfully deserved, but one can never quite imagine him being responsible for the murder of his father. Smerdyakov comes off as being too witty and manipulative; he's cold, and calculating, and his final words to Ivan have a profound effect on both Ivan and the reader. Alyosha has a genuine warmth to him; he's the kind of person that you'd enjoy to have in your company. His transition from monk to skeptic is a path many can empathize with. Ivan is much like Smerdyakov, he's relatively forgettable until his antics in defense of his brother. His "Tale of the Grand Inquisitor" is absolutely gobsmacking awesome though even if read as a standalone.
(I hope that doesn't spoil the story for anyone as it it absolutely worth the read when you can find the time.)
From Cien Años de Soledad: (Read it in Spanish if you can; English is okay too)
Úrsula sticks out in my mind, especially given the numerous repetitions of José, Arcadio, José Arcadio, Aureliano,etc. She puts up with the crazy antics of her husband --watches in horror as he transforms her dowry into a molten pile of alchemical goo, among many things -- and keeps the nucleus of the family together despite the "absence" of José Arcadio Buendía. Her caramel animal business keeps the family from starving --but also allows her husband to maintain his crazy pursuits instead of doing useful endeavors. She is a fiercely independent woman and acts as the voice of reason within a family full of crazy people. You really have to read the book to get the gist of what I'm saying.
WESLEY from Angel!
His character arc from... incompetent comic relief ---> Serious booksmart man with a little more attitude (Giles Mk II) --> Lovelorn heartbroken guy who makes the hard choices --> ZOMG! He's Batman!
Its the biggest turnaround of a character i've ever really seen, and yet it is all pretty believable. Angel is basically just 'lets break Wes: A play in 5 acts'. Great character.
Also, Lucien LaCroix - from canadian cheesy vampire detective show Forever Knight. All he does is snark, but he does it so well.
Richard the Third.
Superman. Yeah, he's not a mentally unbalanced, barely-restrained vigilante, he's not brutal, he's a nice, caring person. How's that a bad thing?
I get why you like the big S. But I loathe him. He's just too overpowered and the way that power is oft associated with AMERICA annoys me. If you ask people about a an american superhero embodying patriotism, I bet you'd get Superman way more than Captain America... who is actually fairly judgemental about the politics of his country. Also... he seems to lack personality.
Sorry to vent... something about Superman just irks me greatly
I thought 'memorable' was another criteria. Other villains have been mentioned. Certainly he's not admirable in any way shape or form, but he was absolutely fascinating and memorable. Somerset himself was almost enthralled by him...
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Fair enough. I read "favorite" in the thread title with a more positive connotation. Some villains can be memorable in a positive way - Irenicus is almost sympathetic, Scar is strikingly clever - which is why I glossed past those earlier in the thread.
John Doe, however, is not memorable in any positive sense. He is pretty much the epitome of pure malice, which is why I was confused.
Sheriff Lucas Black from American Gothic.
doh... it's been so long...
god, he was so deliciously evil.
Not to derail, but Capt. America is fairly judgmental about the politics of his country because he subscribes the the ideals the country represents, and laws often do not.
There's a big difference between patriotism and jingoism.
Oh god yes. I loved him and that series so very much. He was just all around awesome, and as I recall it, his evil powers were fairly subtle.
Though, the character's name was Lucas Buck. Lucas Black is the name of the actor who played the kid.
I'm dredging up a quote from the past, but I 100% agree.
Kvothe from The Name of the Wind is a great character who is so quintessentially wise and lively in spite of his losses.
Tyrion from ASoIAF for being the projection of every single nerd's ideal. An unloved dwarf, he reaches the top through cunning and raw battle-axe badassery.
I think thats sorta what I was getting at in a way. Superman is associated with America in this sort of Supes = big and strong and powerful and fights evil! So does AMERICA!
Hurm... Yeah there was a point but i've lost it again, sorry . I was trying to say something about Captain America = ideals of country wheras Superman, to my mind has always came across as justification that America IS ideal.
I would say that patriotism and jingoism have become dangerously conflated to the point where I feel comfortable using the term as a negative, though you are technically correct.
You are aware that Creed Bratton is playing himself, aren't you? He used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots, and now he plays a burned out ex-hippie klepto that used to be the guitarist for The Grass Roots.
I've never heard of the grass roots, are they any good?
At first I didn't like Creed because he was too much of a non sequitur go to guy, and back when the mains were still doing material based on the British version, he looked pretty bad as one of the only original characters.
Once the show hit its own stride he started to fit in more as they gave him more and more risky/creepy things to say.
I wonder if they'll ever try giving him a story. They can't do too many interviews with him because he never breaks "character" within the show, so to speak.
I've been watching the Bourne Trilogy this week and god damn if he doesn't steal every scene he's in. Just the way he plans eight steps ahead of the opposition, always keeping his cool is really entertaining to watch. By the third film he's an old pro, and even the higher ups are cowering in fear of Mr. Bourne.
I like Michael Scott because he does a lot of stupid, insensitive stuff but I feel like I can't fault him because even though he's doing the wrong things, he's trying so hard to do them for the right reasons. I like Dwight because he's so eccentric, but he does what he wants and he doesn't really care what other people say.
I actually really hate Creed. I'd put him in the characters I hate thread. He has his moments, but mostly he just seems like a worthless dirtbag.
Limed for great Justice.
Also, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead". The ending scene of that play really does it for me.
Agreed. Also, hotter than Inara.
Kreia from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. The character is just very interesting, especially for a Star Wars game. She's like an evil, manipulative Yoda. Her voice actor is great as well. She's what Palpatine should have been in the prequels.
I might have read Silence of the Lambs a million times, and I still can't shut up about how awesome Hannibal Lecter is.
I like how you said that Aku was one of the worst characters ever in the other thread. That's just hilarious.
Well, I couldn't very well put it in this thread
Nevermind that it was just re-released on the DS for a whole new generation, and a whole continent that never even got the game.
Dick.
Love the game,