The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
Yeah, sometimes it's funny how much theory gets tossed about before someone takes the simple step of actually putting both boiled and tap water in the freezer...
EDIT: Oh, I see what you did there...well, nevertheless, until you try it...
crawdaddio on
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
I don't think any of those variables matter (except for the temperature one which is implied) in this experiment if they're the same for both samples...
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
is there a better way to learn css than trying to make a website with it? like, would a dedicated series of tutorials help, or am i better off jumping right in?
i've got this 'css the missing manual' here, 2006 ed - has much changed in the shift from css 2.1-3?
MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Do this the next time you're camping: Take some tongs and hold an empty drink can in the campfire for a few minutes. Then quickly submerge the can upside down in a bucket of water.
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
I don't think any of those variables matter (except for the temperature one which is implied) in this experiment if they're the same for both samples...
No, it makes a hell of a lot of difference. All of those will affect the freezing time of the water. Also you're a whore who will somehow suck all the fun out of this conversation, so get the fuck out of my thread.
Metalbourne on
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
Okay, yeah, you can do that, but what happens with copper pans?
Glass? wood?
Each material has different heat-transferring properties that will affect the ambient motion of the water and effect the time it takes to freeze. The same with different size pans. Like I said, there's no simple answer to a question like that.
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
Okay, yeah, you can do that, but what happens with copper pans?
Glass? wood?
Each material has different heat-transferring properties that will affect the ambient motion of the water and effect the time it takes to freeze. The same with different size pans. Like I said, there's no simple answer to a question like that.
You'd be controlling the other variables in an experiment, presumably. As long as you use the same sort of containers and covering devices and put them in the same sort of cooling unit at the same initial temperature, it should be mostly the same.
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
Okay, yeah, you can do that, but what happens with copper pans?
Glass? wood?
Each material has different heat-transferring properties that will affect the ambient motion of the water and effect the time it takes to freeze. The same with different size pans. Like I said, there's no simple answer to a question like that.
I dunno about wood, but it'd be the same for copper.
We have to remember the original question and my original answer:
Q: What freezes faster, hot or cold water?
A: There are too many variables to get one definite answer.
The boiled water freezes faster. Boiling gets rid of dissolved gases ever present in tap water. These dissolved gases are largely non-volatile, non-electrolytes which expand the liquid phase, i.e, depress the freezing point and elevate the boiling point. With the dissolved gases gone, the liquid phase narrows.
at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
Okay, yeah, you can do that, but what happens with copper pans?
Glass? wood?
Each material has different heat-transferring properties that will affect the ambient motion of the water and effect the time it takes to freeze. The same with different size pans. Like I said, there's no simple answer to a question like that.
I dunno about wood, but it'd be the same for copper.
We have to remember the original question and my original answer:
Q: What freezes faster, boiled or tap water?
A: There are too many variables to get one definite answer.
Can we agree on that?
yep
I'll say it'd probably be the same for a controlled test though
I don't think any of those variables matter (except for the temperature one which is implied) in this experiment if they're the same for both samples...
No, it makes a hell of a lot of difference. All of those will affect the freezing time of the water. Also you're a whore who will somehow suck all the fun out of this conversation, so get the fuck out of my thread.
Dear god, man, chill out.
If you put boiled hot water, boiled water that's cooled down, and straight tap water, all in the same exact containers made of the same exact material, for that one experiment, no variables are important other than whether or not the water is boiled and what temperature the water.
But yeah, in other experiments you could test other variables...
srsizzy on
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
After I learned that when you put spearmint lifesavers in a ziplock bag and bring it into a dark space (like a closet) and whack with a hammer, it would emit light...I wrote in a science fiction "novel" I was writing (I got 20 pages in! at 16-pt font!) that the people in this futuristic time would use compressed crystals as an alternative light source.
Of course I'm sure I got a billion things wrong when I was writing about it, but hey! I was 9! or 10...
I also came up with a system of "floating" vehicles that would be suspended through electromagnetic forces on the bottom of the vehicles, and on a layer of the roads. Also, on military bases, the polarities were reversed, so civilian vehicles couldn't cross over onto them. The military vehicles could activate sliding plates on the bottom that matched the polarity of the civilian roads, though, so they had full access anywhere.
I kept trying to find really powerful magnets so I could make a model of the system and bring it into class and impress the shit out of everybody. Unfortunately I never found magnets strong enough.
OH MAN I should totally do that now, it would be fantastically awesome. I'd have a floating spaceship model. I wouldn't know where to find magnets like that, though. And I know nothing about electromagnets, and if using them for something like this would even be plausible. I'm guessing no.
soooo.....I just got back from my granddad's funeral, the whole town was there, it seemed like. It was a beautiful service and my family did alot of crying and laughing together today. I feel alot better and my folks are doing great now.
I just wanted to thank you guys who wished me well, and letting me vent in the chat thread.
After I learned that when you put spearmint lifesavers in a ziplock bag and bring it into a dark space (like a closet) and whack with a hammer, it would emit light...I wrote in a science fiction "novel" I was writing (I got 20 pages in! at 16-pt font!) that the people in this futuristic time would use compressed crystals as an alternative light source.
Of course I'm sure I got a billion things wrong when I was writing about it, but hey! I was 9! or 10...
I also came up with a system of "floating" vehicles that would be suspended through electromagnetic forces on the bottom of the vehicles, and on a layer of the roads. Also, on military bases, the polarities were reversed, so civilian vehicles couldn't cross over onto them. The military vehicles could activate sliding plates on the bottom that matched the polarity of the civilian roads, though, so they had full access anywhere.
I kept trying to find really powerful magnets so I could make a model of the system and bring it into class and impress the shit out of everybody. Unfortunately I never found magnets strong enough.
OH MAN I should totally do that now, it would be fantastically awesome. I'd have a floating spaceship model. I wouldn't know where to find magnets like that, though. And I know nothing about electromagnets, and if using them for something like this would even be plausible. I'm guessing no.
That's uh, that's pretty fucking astute for a ten-year-old. Are you sure you aren't some kind of genius?
soooo.....I just got back from my granddad's funeral, the whole town was there, it seemed like. It was a beautiful service and my family did alot of crying and laughing together today. I feel alot better and my folks are doing great now.
I just wanted to thank you guys who wished me well, and letting me vent in the chat thread.
soooo.....I just got back from my granddad's funeral, the whole town was there, it seemed like. It was a beautiful service and my family did alot of crying and laughing together today. I feel alot better and my folks are doing great now.
I just wanted to thank you guys who wished me well, and letting me vent in the chat thread.
I'm glad you're feeling better, Iruka. We're all here for you if you need to vent about it any more, as I'm sure you know.
That's uh, that's pretty fucking astute for a ten-year-old. Are you sure you aren't some kind of genius?
I have an IQ of 142...so.....maybe? lol
My dad also answered a lot of my questions and told me a lot of science stuff when I was a kid, and I had some really, really awesome books that he let me borrow at a young age. Like, I learned about the fibonacci sequence when I was in the 3rd grade, maybe. I love science, though, so I think I just absorb it like a sponge whenever I hear about it. I think a lot of it just has to do with being a really curious child, though.
soooo.....I just got back from my granddad's funeral, the whole town was there, it seemed like. It was a beautiful service and my family did alot of crying and laughing together today. I feel alot better and my folks are doing great now.
I just wanted to thank you guys who wished me well, and letting me vent in the chat thread.
OH MAN I should totally do that now, it would be fantastically awesome. I'd have a floating spaceship model. I wouldn't know where to find magnets like that, though. And I know nothing about electromagnets, and if using them for something like this would even be plausible. I'm guessing no.
You threw me off with the 'even be plausible' part. I don't know what part of it you think would be implausible since it's stuff that's already been done on mass scale, unless I've missed something.
And about not being able to find magnets...nerds=internet. Of course there's going to be a magnet store.
The only thing implausible, as far as I can see, is being able to convince yourself it's worth your time and money to do.
But if you do do it, you should do it with like a couple F-Zero hovercrafts on a slot car track, that'd be totally rad.
I kinda meant "plausible" in like, I don't have to learn a bajillion different technical things and equations and magnet properties, and end up creating something that would kill me in the face, because I have no idea what I'm doing, haha.
Magnet store looks very promising, but the Oh My God I'm Such A Whore For Science part of me really, really wants to make an electromagnet. After browsing the web a bit, it doesn't look like it would be too difficult. I'd just have to worry about heat, I guess. Also I'd have no idea how far any of these magnets could keep my "spaceship" suspended, but I guess that would be something I'd have to figure out through trial and error.
"HELLO ENGINEERING STUDENTS I AM A GIRL AND I LIKE SCIENCE DO YOU WANT TO COME TO MY HOUSE AND TEACH ME ABOUT MAGNETS." <wink>
It seems like finding the information needed to pull this project off wouldn't be hugely difficult, but my interest in engineering things is vastly larger than my actual knowledge about engineering, so therefore I'm going to guess that I am probably wrong.
It seems like finding the information needed to pull this project off wouldn't be hugely difficult, but my interest in engineering things is vastly larger than my actual knowledge about engineering, so therefore I'm going to guess that I am probably wrong.
haha, I suffer a similar fate. OLOL ILLUSTRATION MAJOR
I have a really smart friend majoring in Physics, maybe he could help me figure out the deal. I may have a friend or two in engineering....OH wait... my uncle is an engineer! hahahaha...can't believe I forgot that. Hmm. I wonder if he'd be able to give me some advice. Not sure. I can always send him off an e-mails, though. I'd probably worry about safety precautions most of all...I don't think what I want to do is *too* complex. I think if I was given a "you should research this, and look out for this", I could probably come up with something decent.
It seems like finding the information needed to pull this project off wouldn't be hugely difficult, but my interest in engineering things is vastly larger than my actual knowledge about engineering, so therefore I'm going to guess that I am probably wrong.
haha, I suffer a similar fate. OLOL ILLUSTRATION MAJOR
I have a really smart friend majoring in Physics, maybe he could help me figure out the deal. I may have a friend or two in engineering....OH wait... my uncle is an engineer! hahahaha...can't believe I forgot that. Hmm. I wonder if he'd be able to give me some advice. Not sure. I can always send him off an e-mails, though. I'd probably worry about safety precautions most of all...I don't think what I want to do is *too* complex. I think if I was given a "you should research this, and look out for this", I could probably come up with something decent.
I'd guess that your biggest danger is more from working with power tools and taking basic safety precautions (DO NO TOUCH LIVE WIRES) than anything unexpected from the science part of things. Unless you have much a much more grandiose scheme in mind here than I expect, you're probably not going to accidentally wind up making a rail gun.
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at least, theoretically. I haven't tried it yet.
EDIT: Oh, I see what you did there...well, nevertheless, until you try it...
More variables: What temperature is each sample of water when they are put in the freezer? What material is the ice tray made of and what is the volume/surface area ratio? Are we assuming there is mixing going on or are both samples relatively static?
i've got this 'css the missing manual' here, 2006 ed - has much changed in the shift from css 2.1-3?
Science!
Shit. Wait. I mean:
Science!
two identical pyrex pans. Pour equal amounts of tap in both, get one boiling for a minute or so, cover them both. Allow a few minutes' cooling time and stick them both in the freezer.
edit: email reply from professor says not to bother him with silly questions, but that it should work, even if the boiled water hasn't cooled quite down to the level of the tap.
No, it makes a hell of a lot of difference. All of those will affect the freezing time of the water. Also you're a whore who will somehow suck all the fun out of this conversation, so get the fuck out of my thread.
Okay, yeah, you can do that, but what happens with copper pans?
Glass? wood?
Each material has different heat-transferring properties that will affect the ambient motion of the water and effect the time it takes to freeze. The same with different size pans. Like I said, there's no simple answer to a question like that.
You'd be controlling the other variables in an experiment, presumably. As long as you use the same sort of containers and covering devices and put them in the same sort of cooling unit at the same initial temperature, it should be mostly the same.
We have to remember the original question and my original answer:
Q: What freezes faster, hot or cold water?
A: There are too many variables to get one definite answer.
Can we agree on that?
yep
I'll say it'd probably be the same for a controlled test though
"Well, we've graphed the curve of temperature to time ratio of water cooling in a 30cm^3 pan made of pyrex from boiling down to freezing!"
"Great! lets try it with 31cm^3 of water!"
edit: actually I guess they'd be going by the molar amount of water instead, since hotter water would take up more space.
and now I'm going to congratulate myself for remembering something from Thermo without having an aneurysm!
colligative property, so yes.
I just noticed that the very first reference cited was how to fossilize your hamster and 99 other experiments to try at home.
I didn't see that but holy crap
If you put boiled hot water, boiled water that's cooled down, and straight tap water, all in the same exact containers made of the same exact material, for that one experiment, no variables are important other than whether or not the water is boiled and what temperature the water.
But yeah, in other experiments you could test other variables...
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it's so odd to have that style be so "photo realistic" in terms of texture/color. it feels a lot more like a photograph that's just been warped a lot.
Daft Punk is scoring the new Tron, awesome.
Of course I'm sure I got a billion things wrong when I was writing about it, but hey! I was 9! or 10...
I also came up with a system of "floating" vehicles that would be suspended through electromagnetic forces on the bottom of the vehicles, and on a layer of the roads. Also, on military bases, the polarities were reversed, so civilian vehicles couldn't cross over onto them. The military vehicles could activate sliding plates on the bottom that matched the polarity of the civilian roads, though, so they had full access anywhere.
I kept trying to find really powerful magnets so I could make a model of the system and bring it into class and impress the shit out of everybody. Unfortunately I never found magnets strong enough.
OH MAN I should totally do that now, it would be fantastically awesome. I'd have a floating spaceship model. I wouldn't know where to find magnets like that, though. And I know nothing about electromagnets, and if using them for something like this would even be plausible. I'm guessing no.
Twitter
I just wanted to thank you guys who wished me well, and letting me vent in the chat thread.
That's uh, that's pretty fucking astute for a ten-year-old. Are you sure you aren't some kind of genius?
<hug (again)>
Twitter
I'm glad you're feeling better, Iruka.
Nah, I know it is.
My dad also answered a lot of my questions and told me a lot of science stuff when I was a kid, and I had some really, really awesome books that he let me borrow at a young age. Like, I learned about the fibonacci sequence when I was in the 3rd grade, maybe. I love science, though, so I think I just absorb it like a sponge whenever I hear about it. I think a lot of it just has to do with being a really curious child, though.
[edit] e-penis moment, but whatever!
No prob.
artistjeffc.tumblr.com http://www.etsy.com/shop/artistjeffc
You threw me off with the 'even be plausible' part. I don't know what part of it you think would be implausible since it's stuff that's already been done on mass scale, unless I've missed something.
And about not being able to find magnets...nerds=internet. Of course there's going to be a magnet store.
The only thing implausible, as far as I can see, is being able to convince yourself it's worth your time and money to do.
Twitter
Magnet store looks very promising, but the Oh My God I'm Such A Whore For Science part of me really, really wants to make an electromagnet. After browsing the web a bit, it doesn't look like it would be too difficult. I'd just have to worry about heat, I guess. Also I'd have no idea how far any of these magnets could keep my "spaceship" suspended, but I guess that would be something I'd have to figure out through trial and error.
hahahaha holy shit, and add a little fan at the back so it travels along the track.
AND MAKE THE FAN RADIO-CONTROLLED. Yessssss
[edit] oooo, or solar powered. Maybe not as fun, then.
"HELLO ENGINEERING STUDENTS I AM A GIRL AND I LIKE SCIENCE DO YOU WANT TO COME TO MY HOUSE AND TEACH ME ABOUT MAGNETS." <wink>
It seems like finding the information needed to pull this project off wouldn't be hugely difficult, but my interest in engineering things is vastly larger than my actual knowledge about engineering, so therefore I'm going to guess that I am probably wrong.
Twitter
And NightDragon are you trying to tell us that you really like science? Because I don't think that point is coming across clearly enough
"No, seriously."
"No, seriously."
"No, seriously."
haha, I suffer a similar fate. OLOL ILLUSTRATION MAJOR
I have a really smart friend majoring in Physics, maybe he could help me figure out the deal. I may have a friend or two in engineering....OH wait... my uncle is an engineer! hahahaha...can't believe I forgot that. Hmm. I wonder if he'd be able to give me some advice. Not sure. I can always send him off an e-mails, though. I'd probably worry about safety precautions most of all...I don't think what I want to do is *too* complex. I think if I was given a "you should research this, and look out for this", I could probably come up with something decent.
artistjeffc.tumblr.com http://www.etsy.com/shop/artistjeffc
It's actually all a lie! I've been fooling you all. I'm just a culinary student.
You say that as though we thought you were studying science or something
I'd guess that your biggest danger is more from working with power tools and taking basic safety precautions (DO NO TOUCH LIVE WIRES) than anything unexpected from the science part of things. Unless you have much a much more grandiose scheme in mind here than I expect, you're probably not going to accidentally wind up making a rail gun.
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