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This thread failed 3 death saving throws. OH NOES

AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
edited April 2009 in Critical Failures
ITT we discuss this thing called Dungeons and Dragons.

Here is a Dungeon:

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Here is a Dragon:

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Hence the name. Also, as a bonus picture here is Bane.

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He's so dreamy <3

And no, he's not going anywhere from the OP. He wants you to love his manly pectoral muscles, his huge thigh muscles and bulging tip of the long hard shaft of his spear. Wizards even has a wallpaper of him, clearly showing they do seem to understand the joke at work here.

Dungeons and Dragons is a pretty old game, originally being created by Gary Gygax (who passed away recently :( ) and Dave Arneson in 1974. Since then it's had various iterations and editions, with the latest edition being 4th edition, published by Wizards of the Coast. The basic rules consist of three books:

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As the name suggests, this is for players and also details the games core rules like combat.

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This book details the various monsters and other things that populate the worlds of most DnD worlds.

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This is for the DM and contains useful things like how much experience you have to make an encounter, treasure tables and rules for creating your own monsters.

If you want to play DnD, you usually only need the players hand book. Running a game requires those base three books.

Some stuff shamelessly stolen from the original post about the races and classes you can play as in the Players Hand Book, with some additions about the PHB2 races and classes by Terrendos.
First off, races now provide only benefits and no negatives. Also, sorry if you liked the Gnome or Half-Orc, they'll be in PHB2, though the gnome is playable out of the monster manual. The gnome is also a monster, rarr.
The Dragonborn:
Not those pussies from 3E's draconomicon, these guys are badasses with a racial breath weapon. They make excellent Warlords, Paladins, and Fighters.

The Dwarves:
They're wise and tough as nails, pretty much the best categorization of the tough dwarf I've seen in tabletop roleplaying games. They make great Paladins, Clerics, and Fighters.

The Eladrin:
The "Elves" of last edition were split into two different races this time. The eladrin live in ridiculously magical feywild cities and make good wizards, warlords, and rangers. They can also teleport as a racial ability. Sweet sorcery, bro.

also Elves Elves lol.

The Elves:
The other half of the elves from last time, they're forest living guys who are really accurate. They make good rangers, rogues, and clerics. See what I mean by Elves lol?

The Half-Elves:
Proof that humans will screw anything. They're pretty tough and personable, and make excellent multiclassers. They make good warlords, paladins, and warlocks.

The Halflings:
Short, fat... actually no, these are about as far from tolkien's halflings as a fat american on his couch eating potato chips is from a bush tribesman in africa. Except they both speak english. Halflings continue their tradition of being really lucky and quick, as well as make excellent rogues, rangers, and warlocks.

The Humans:
Look in the Mirror. They're good at everything again and are the most adaptable, again. They make good anythings.

The Tieflings:
Blah blah blah our ancestors made pacts with devils and we're not half-breeds anymore. We get angry really well as a racial ability. We're also merciless, etc. We make good Warlocks, Warlords, or Rogues.

Also they really AREN'T the same tieflings we've had for 20 years.

We also have a bunch of new races now since PHB II came out

Deva: Former spirits under the service of good gods fighting an unending war against darkness. Must remain tirelessly good lest they be reborn into Rakshasa. Good avengers, clerics, invokers, and wizards.

Gnome: Small Feywild natives who learned trickery during slavery to fomorians. Curious, stealthy, and small, these short Elflike creatures make excellent bards, sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards.

Goliath: Mountain-dwelling nomads, covered in pebble-like bone growths that make them extra tough. Tall, massive, and strong, goliaths revere primal spirits and make excellent barbarians, fighters, and wardens.

Half-Orc: Channelling the strength of orcblood and the decisive, resourceful nature of humans, some say these warriors were hand-made by Kord himself. Others consider them an abomination. They don't much care, so long as they've got food and battle. Half-Orcs are excellent barbarians, rangers, and rogues.

Shifters: Descended from lycanthrope ancestors, these animal-like men see nearly everything in terms of hunter and prey. Able to draw on their ancestor's instincts, they are excellent druids, fighters, rangers, wardens, and surprisingly good clerics.

Introducing the Classes:

Every class now has a "Role" within the party, and a party is recommended to have every role represented to succeed, though it need not have to. It is considered "pro" to have proper party balance.
The Cleric:
Is classified as a Leader.

He's the priest of a god with some pretty wicked spells to heal his allies and disable his enemies. Usually at the same time. Rarely will the cleric spend entire turns casting Cure Light Wounds.
The Fighter:
Is classified as a Defender.

He's a badass with a sword and board or a Two handed weapon, his job on the battlefield is to keep the enemies from stomping his friends, and he can do so with a variety of weapons, which all behave differently depending on how you choose your powers.
The Paladin:
Is classified as a Defender.

This guy is the champion of a deity, who uses some pretty powerful melee spells to lay waste to the enemy. He does alot of glowing holy magical energy damage, too. He also uses either a sword and shield or two handed weapon. His crappy spellcasting from previous editions has been replaced by a whole host of wicked awesome prayers that can heal his allies and smite his enemies.
The Ranger:
Is classified as a Striker.

This guy can use either a bow or two one handed weapons to mercilessly mutilate his enemies. He can also designate specific enemies as his quarry, this includes a giant glowing red arrow above their head.

Because this game is now WoW.
The Rogue:
Is classified as a Striker.

Is only good for picking locks and disarming traps, not really though. Sneak attack has been toned down a bit, but the rogue's huge damage boost makes up for it, because he really tears shit up with some pretty awesome powers.
The Warlock:
Is classified as a Striker.

Makes soul selling pacts with either Fey, Demons, or Cthulhu. Fires blasts of eldritch energy and murders people. Also, curses people so that he deals even more damage.

Strikers are nuts.
The Warlord:
Is classified as a Leader.

This is the new class focused on tactics and inspiring your fellows. He's pretty cool and can actually replace a cleric in your party very effectively, and he brings a different playstyle to the table too. Cleric Inc. hates him for breaking its monopoly on this role.
The Wizard:
Is the only Controller.

The wizard is good at killing lots of enemies, very fast. He's not as amazingly and unstoppably powerful as he used to be, but still is pretty cool.
The Swordmage:
Is classified as a Defender.

The Swordmage was released in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. He combines arcana and swords to make wonderful stabby magic. But probably not swordchucks.

We also have some new PHB II classes just to add to the excitement!
Class: Avenger
Classification: Striker
Power Source: Divine
Primary Abilities: Wisdom, Intelligence, Dexterity
"My god has words for you. This blade will show you to him."
Avengers are excellent at isolating and eliminating single targets. Other followers do what should be done. You do what must be done. Pro: roll two attacks under certain circumstances. Con: Reliant on enemies for static damage boosts.
Class: Barbarian
Classification: Striker
Power Source: Primal
Primary Abilities: Strength, Constitution, Charisma
"My strength lies in the fury of the wild."
Barbarians are savage warriors, channelling primal energy through themselves and their massive weapons. Darting back and forth across the battle, your fierce chouts make the enemy quake in fear. Pro: Big damage dice, lots of damage potential. Can fly into mighty rages. Con: Rages are daily powers, so don't expect to use them a lot. Also low defenses that get lowered during certain attacks.
Class: Bard
Classification: Leader
Power Source: Arcane
Primary Abilities: Charisma, Intelligence, Constitution
"I play the song of my ally's victory over your corpse."
Bards are artists, channeling magic through unbelievable skill with music, drama, or poetry. Your skill with blade, book, and hymn are the stuff of fables. Pro: lots of fancy rituals to help in conversation. Can take as many multiclass feats as she wants. Con: Comparatively less healing than clerics, and less effective hazing abilities.
Class: Druid
Classification: Controller
Power Source: Primal
Primary Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity
"I am the seeker. I am the stalker. I am the storm."
Druids are the most effective and purist channelers of primal fury and embody all aspects of nature, from the calm of the still leaf to the fury of the thunderbolt. Pro: Alternates between caster form and wild shape for effectiveness in every situation. Con: Too many At-Will choices, fewer burst options than Wizard/Invoker.
Class: Invoker
Classification: Controller
Power Source: Divine
Primary Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence
"Mighty Pelor! I beseech ye! Smite these wicked foes with your unending light!"
Invokers are invested with a pure spark of their chosen god, rather than being merely ordained by corrupt priests and weak rituals. They are the purest of their god's mortal agents. Pro: Arguably a better controller than Wizard, plus gains access to the sweet Channel Divinity stuff. Con: Less overall damage potential, less powerful rituals, and lacking the utility spells that make wizards such good generalists. Also I'm not that fond of the PP choices.
Class: Shaman
Classification: Leader
Power Source: Primal
Primary Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence
"The spirits surround me, guiding my movements and obeying my commands."
Blessed with a mighty spirit companion that aids his allies, the Shaman is a primal, spiritual force. His mighty companion serves as both a focus for his attacks and as a shield to protect both him and his allies. Pro: Protector spirit makes an excellent backup Defender or Striker. Con: You have to give up your actions to command it.
Class: Sorcerer
Classification: Striker
Power Source: Arcane
Primary Abilities: Charisma, Dexterity, Strength
"The difference between you and me? You wield magic. Magic wields me."
Sorcerers are natural founts of arcane power, resulting from either a history of dragon's blood or a product of mysterious, chaotic forces. Either way, you practically bristle with barely-contained magic, parcelling it out as needed in battle. Pro: Potential for very high damage and lots of cool effects. Con: Those effects are typically random, some of which can hit your allies.
Class: Warden
Classification: Defender
Power Source: Primal
Primary Abilities: Strength, Wisdom, Constitution
"Get past me? You might as well try to push the mountain aside."
Wardens are protectors of the earth, drawing on primal spirits to protect their allies from harm, and the natural world from the encroachment of those who would corrupt it. Pro: You are a brick wall, but harder to hit and probably more resilient. Con: You're not supposed to wear heavy armor, and marking all adjacent enemies means you're going to need all that toughness.

DM/Player Tools and Helpful Links

D&D Insider Subscriptions

D&D Insider has gone into subscription beta mode. What that means is, for three preset payment structures, you can access all of the online content Wizards is producing exclusively for Insider members without restriction. There are currently demos available for all the previously released content, listed below:

More and more exclusive content will be added each month. Also, Insider subscribers will be included along with those who signed up at D&D Convention events in the closed beta testing for the new Character Builder application, the next tool on the slate to be released for the Insider. So, what are the prices, you ask?
  • $59.40 for 12 months - $4.95 per month
  • $19.95 for 3 months - $6.65 per month
  • $7.95 for month

To subscribe to the D&D Insider service, click here.

You can find screenshots of the Character builder here.

Thanks Goose!

A lot of stuff has been released currently as well and I have most of it, so I'll give some minor thoughts on each and update as stuff comes out:

Campaign Settings

Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
Forgotten Realms Players Guide
Scepter Tower of Spellgard

This is currently the only campaign setting that has come out for Fourth Edition and IMO, it's pretty decent. It marks a significant departure from the previous editions versions of the Forgotten Realms however. It has enough detail that any DM will find it a useful resource for making a campaign and providing an overall world to set that campaign in. It does not have the depth of lore or similar that previous editions have had, which is what leads to a lot of the negativity surrounding the setting. I'll make a more detailed post about the FR specifically for those interested.

The players guide IMO is a useful resource even if you don't actually like the realms as a setting. Although a fair chunk of the book is dedicated to the FR, the Swordmage, races (Drow and Genasi) and feats make it a worthwhile purchase for anyone.

The adventure is decent quality, but requires a lot of work compared to the 'core' adventure series to get fully implemented into a campaign. It also starts at level 2, which is a real pain for DMs wanting to just jump right into a 4E campaign with the adventure and some fresh level 1 PCs.

Released books

Adventurers Vault

This is an excellent book for anyone, with a huge swathe of new awesome magical items and other things to bling your characters out with (or so you don't find yourself handing out bags of holding every single game as a DM because you can't think of anything else). This is a fantastic book.

Draconomicon

This is an excellent DM resource or just for anyone who loves dragons as well (It has some great artwork in it IMO). A nice smattering of new monsters, especially in the heroic tier as well as new options, new chromatic dragons and ideas for running encounters with Dragons. I highly recommend this book for any DM, but it doesn't have much utility for players.

Manual of the Planes

Good resource for DMs and a useful introduction to the planes. There is a new "race", Bladeling in the book and some Paragon Paths, but I wouldn't buy this if you're a player primarily. The book makes a lot of assumptions about the cosmology that may conflict with the Forgotten Realms and Eberron as well, which can make life something confusing if you're using those settings. Despite this, it's still useful and will provide plenty of ideas for running planar campaigns.

Martial Power

This is the best supplement for players released since 4E came out. Has a lot of new, interesting and fun options for martial characters, namely Fighters, Rangers, Rogues and Warlords. Good balance as well and has lots of great new paragon paths and more. I can recommend this book to absolutely anyone.

Open Grave

IMO, hands down the best supplement for DMs released thus far if you want your campaigns to have anything at all to do with the undead. Good adventure hooks, a wide array of excellent new monsters from filling out low level undead to providing even more high level undead monstrosities, this is an absolutely terrific book. Of course, if you don't like the undead much you won't find anything of interest in here and in a similar manner to the Draconomicon, there is nothing here for people playing in games to really make much use out of.

Dungeon Delve

Delayed somewhat and contains a large bunch of adventures of various levels and such.

Released Adventures

H1: Keep on the Shadowfell

Good quality dungeon crawl, if a little hard for people new to 4th Edition DnD but is a good place to start if you are new.

H2: Thunderspire Labyrinth

This is a really solid adventure and has some good combats throughout it. There is also a sidetrek published in Dungeon in support for it as well.

H3: Pyramid of Shadows

This is the most "Dedicated" of the dungeon crawls that I've seen in this series, but has a wide variety of pretty fun encounters and IMO, works well. Easy to fit into any setting as well with little modification or work required.

P1: King of the Trollhaunt Warrens

I really like this adventure, especially the final siege towards the end of the module that gets pretty zany in the end. Good quality as well.

P2: The Demon Queen's Enclave

The "core" adventure series is a nice bunch of dungeon crawls to be frank and this one seems to keep up the tradition. It's pretty solid though and if the DM wishes, you can really up the backstabbing and intrigue, making it one of the more interesting adventures in the series.

P3: Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress.

I'll update the OP once I get that one. I'm looking forward to it!

Upcoming Stuff

Players Hand Book II
Coming out this month, it includes a whole bunch of new races and classes.

New Races include: Daeva (Half-angel), Half-Orc, Gnome, Shifter (Lycanthrope type race) and Goliath.
New Classes include: Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorcerer and Warden.

Previews of new classes and the playtest of the Barbarian (located here) indicate it's looking really good.

Arcane Power: April.
Monster Manual 2: May. The daemon on the front is Demogorgon.
Eberron Campaign Guide: June.
Eberron Players Guide: July. Has Artificer as a class and full write up for Warforged characters. There may be other races in this as well.
Seekers of the Ashen Crown: July. This is the adventure for the Eberron campaign setting. Note that like the Forgotten Realms, Eberron only gets 3 core books and the remaining support will be published in Dragon and Dungeon.

Future Release Speculation and Rumours

Planning on releasing 4E versions of old campaign settings every year. Planescape and Dark Sun have been mentioned as such examples. Dark Sun might be next year apparently.

Wizards are getting improved at-will abilities in arcane power (?).

PHB III will have monks (Ki powersource) and psionics (?).

DMG2 is coming out later this year, maybe August/Septemberish. It contains full rules for making traps (there is a dragon article on this however), the revised skill challenge DC chart, new rules for traps and will have Sigil the city of doors fully mapped and detailed for insertion into peoples campaigns.

More information on DMG2 from one of the podcasts: Expands on advice
New mechanics and options: Monster design is mentioned (ok, now I'm interested).
Attempt to offer new ideas and similar.
May have a similar design to the first book (?)

Necromancer class was mentioned in it as well, although they haven't confirmed anything they do seem to be thinking about the idea.

Useful Stuff Provided By Wizards and other people

To go with some of the links provided from the previous threads, Wizards have an Art and Map Gallery here. This is free and provides a lot of useful maps and art for use in your games to pillage at will. The OP dungeon is shamelessly stolen from there ;)

Additionally I recommend this site, which has a wide collection of fantasy art and such forth. Some of it is distinctly NSFW however, so consider yourself warned. They love naked women.

Another useful site is the Cartographers Guild forums. Many talented map artists at this site who make a range of maps, both large scale continental maps, town maps and dungeon maps. Some of the maps here IMO are a bit too fancy, with excessive mapsizes for use with maptools but there are some real gems on here as well. Incidentally, the guy who did the cartography for the Cormyr article in Dragon Magazine posts here as well. Here's an example.

The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
Aegeri on
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Posts

  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Whoa whoa whoa

    Dwarves and Elves can pick Human classes now?

    When did this happen?

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I knows. It's heretical you know. Next we'll be having non-lawful good Paladins and where the hell will the game go from there?

    Be nothing more than a video game or some shit.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • ArcanisTheImpotentArcanisTheImpotent Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wizard$ of the Coa$t obviously just trying to cash in

    ArcanisTheImpotent on
  • mightyspacepopemightyspacepope Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    From the old thread:
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Maticore wrote: »
    Wait, can avengers use two handed weapons?

    If they can I can finally play my dream class.

    One that lets me use all nine of my d12s.

    The Avenger is designed with two handed weapons in mind. If you're not using a two handed weapon as an Avenger, you are doing it wrong.


    If you're not using Batman as an Avenger, you are doing it wrong.

    mightyspacepope on
    sig3_zpsdb7d59bd.jpg
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    From the old thread:
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Maticore wrote: »
    Wait, can avengers use two handed weapons?

    If they can I can finally play my dream class.

    One that lets me use all nine of my d12s.

    The Avenger is designed with two handed weapons in mind. If you're not using a two handed weapon as an Avenger, you are doing it wrong.


    If you're not using Batman as an Avenger, you are doing it wrong.

    I take it using the batbelt to fetch the bat shark repellent is a minor action?

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • mightyspacepopemightyspacepope Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    If you take the "I'm Batman" feat, you can do it as a free action.

    mightyspacepope on
    sig3_zpsdb7d59bd.jpg
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The first Eberron adventure is Seekers of the Ashen Crown, according to Amazon.

    Mike Danger on
    Steam: Mike Danger | PSN/NNID: remadeking | 3DS: 2079-9204-4075
    oE0mva1.jpg
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The first Eberron adventure is Seekers of the Ashen Crown, according to Amazon.

    Yeah, good catch I'll throw that into the OP at some point. It's also going to be the only published adventure (aside from Dungeon). As they are only releases two core books per setting and an adventure.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • KratosmasterKratosmaster Registered User
    edited March 2009
    You can get a Goddamned mod on that feat, no?

    Kratosmaster on
    tf2_sig.png
  • mightyspacepopemightyspacepope Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    You can get a Goddamned mod on that feat, no?

    You can take the "I'm the Goddamn Batman" feat at Paragon tier, yes.

    mightyspacepope on
    sig3_zpsdb7d59bd.jpg
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bane is still the dreamiest.

    Fiaryn on
    Soul Silver FC: 1935 3141 6240
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  • Ain SophAin Soph Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Ok. not having my PHB with me at the moment, I have a quick question.

    Do enemies grant players Combat advantage during the surprise round? If so, would readying missile/charge attacks rape face?

    Ain Soph on
    :whistle:
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Enemies that are surprised grant combat advantage.

    Also, apparently the clarification to the "marked" condition is that marks end immediately if you're knocked unconscious. This is to prevent creatures from whacking at unconscious defenders out of nothing better to do.

    But damn do I want my PHB II or what :(

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So reading about the Melee Training feat has me a bit perturbed.

    I'm not sure that I feel like it's too good or anything, I just feel WotC is slipping into old habits by basically reprinting feats but making them better in some way. (Melee Training being Intelligent Blademaster for any stat with no class restrictions placed on it)

    Maddoc on
    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Where did you read about melee training?

    Man this is driving me nuts. Some of these feats I'm hearing about sound ridiculous, then you get the actual wording and it's just not that impressive at all.

    Melee training though I have heard is a bit absurd.

    Edit: Yeah, reading the actual text it's basically intelligent blademaster but for any stat. So you can make your opportunity attacks and melee basic attacks use whatever stat is required. That's actually pretty good for Paladins focusing on Charisma and while it does make intelligent blademaster useless, I have to admit that this is a good feat. It's actually really useful for a wide variety of defender and other melee classes that don't rely on strength as a main stat. I think this is a good feat, especially because not everyone allows the stuff in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    There's some discussion about it in this thread linked by Mostlyjoe in the last thread.

    They mention it on that page, and then go into further discussion of the feat a few more pages in.

    EDIT: So beat'd

    Maddoc on
    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Also, Distant Advantage is pretty pro. You gain combat advantage against an enemy that is flanked by your allies, for ranged attacks.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The dragon pic in this OP is way cooler aegeri. GG.

    BTW ..can I multiclass druid yet??????

    lol

    illgottengains on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Actually quite possibly, because I'm pretty sure the multiclass feat for druid is around somewhere now. If you can find it you can take it.

    Edit: Incidentally, the Dragon in the OP is Zebukiel. He's famous for betraying his fellow Draconic types and getting the shit beaten out of him by his fellows, but cursed to never actually die from his injuries (hence why he's so messed up). He's probably one of the tougher solo monsters in 4E as well. Woe is a party that lacks petrification protection.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    wutwut?

    Someone link me the druid multiclass feat!

    Do it nao!

    Get to tha choppa!

    illgottengains on
  • illgottengainsillgottengains Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    whoa I has found a link on the intrawebs with the druid's full powers.

    thank you intrawebs!

    illgottengains on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Here.

    It's Initiate of the Old Faith:

    You need 13 wisdom (easy being a Cleric)
    You gain training in nature
    You choose 1 1st level druid at-will power with the beast keyword, which you gain as an encounter power.

    You can wildshape as you like into your beast form, probably with the usual rules.

    You can use Druid implements (totems).

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The bard healing MC feat is once/day, and the feat "Weapon Training" is ''Pick a stat, make melee basic attacks with it.''

    Pretty solid choice for a feat, and it should have been there from the start.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah, it really does mean that classes that aren't strength based are more useful. Opportunity attacks and basic melee being strength makes these really rare to see from certain classes.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, it really does mean that classes that aren't strength based are more useful. Opportunity attacks and basic melee being strength makes these really rare to see from certain classes.

    Yeah - our GM had to give our Cha-paladin a set of magic gauntlets that let him use AoO's with his Charisma 1x/encounter just to make his attacks not crap.

    It also means for AD rogues, Charge is -1stat to damage for +2 to hit, which means the charge action sucks less for them.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Just bringing things into the current thread:
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Weapon expertise/implement expertise is +3 to attack rolls respectively (at epic tier after level 25). If you could stack them if they aren't typed (and I'm not sure) it would be +6 to attack.

    Which is completely broken.

    Implement is a feat bonus IIRC. There's some photobucket scans of some dude that has a few pictures of the feat pages online, I think it was linked to from the "He haz it" page.

    Edit - It's also important to note that the wizard is already behind by +3/4 (5-6 w/ CA) to hit over melee characters.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That's because they target NADs. Though if you use lots of brutes (who can often have higher fort than AC) wizards tend to hate you at epic.

    Edit: They will also be able to benefit from the feat that grants you combat advantage on ranged attacks when your allies are flanking an enemy.

    Actually, IMO PHB II has a lot of almost "must have" feats for certain classes and builds.
    Implement is a feat bonus IIRC. There's some photobucket scans of some dude that has a few pictures of the feat pages online, I think it was linked to from the "He haz it" page.

    It doesn't have the text of these feats sadly, only the summary and the summary does not specify what the bonus is.

    Aegeri on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rogues can target NAD's too, but even then I'm pretty sure if you're following the DMG rules for making a monster that's like 2 less than AC in most cases, not 5-6, and the powers split damage.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Like ideally you're shooting off a power like Destructive salutation, counting on it to miss most targets, and quickdrawing the orb that makes a missed attack apply it's effects, and that's pretty sad.

    Not that +6 isn't too strong (even though warlords can crap out pretty high atk bonuses at epic tier) I'm just saying that wizards weren't exactly DPS kings that hit all the time because they targeted Fort or Ref.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Triple post but whatever.

    I didn't see a feat that was like Heavy Blade Opportunity but for other weapon types, and that's kind of disappointing. The weapon group that is already arguably the best has the best feat laid on top of it.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rogues can target NAD's too, but even then I'm pretty sure if you're following the DMG rules for making a monster that's like 2 less than AC in most cases, not 5-6, and the powers split damage.

    Rogues don't have as many powers that target NADs as wizards do. Usually they target reflex (albeit, Reflex is sitting a close 3rd on defenses) and Wizards make up for this with area attacks.

    Also, AC and NADs differ. Soldiers are of course the best off, but their NADs are actually -4 off (not -2, +16 and +12), but brutes and artillery are equal AC/NAD wise at +12. All other monster types are 2 worse (+14 AC and +12 NAD). Then you factor in the monsters relevant stats, which creates the main variation (and is why brutes often have higher fortitude than AC).

    So people targeting NADs do not need a +6 to hit. Let alone those like Swordmages who also need to target AC getting a +6 attack bonus (and they are the primary ones who will reap the benefits from this and then stick on heavy blade feats as well...).

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah the other classes have alot less vs. NAD attacks. I think it's pretty much moot because im 99% that the bonus is typed, but my point is they're already behind to hit and they typically don't do solid effective damage - they might be able to go Bwarr damage split 95 damage and then the Ranger goes bwarr 80-140 damage to one guy.

    Which is fine - they're controllers, but I don't really see a massive problem with a controller running around hitting really accurately with his control powers, especially when they have a magic item that makes them basically autohit anyway.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Someone has finally helpfully posted the text:
    Weapon Expertise
    Benefit: Choose a weapon group. You gain +1 bonus to attack rolls with any weapon power you use with a weapon from that group. The bonus increases to +2 at 15th lvl and to +3 at 25th lvl.
    Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon group.

    And on a quick re-read I think it has protected itself with the requirement it's a "weapon power".

    But expect there to be drama later.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That's Bard/Wizard/Sorc/Swordmage right? I can see it being alot better on the Sorceror, since his implement doesnt allow him to autohit with the control effect anyway, but depending on how his powers work he might just still wind up doing less damage than the Rog/Ranger/Tempest Fighter.

    Edit -

    And that's kind of a problem with 4e IMO, there are classes that might as well just autohit with their attacks and they will still underdamage a character that swings several times a round.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Holy nuts batman!
    Sorcerous Blade Channeling
    Prerequisite: Sorcerer
    Benefit: When you use any ranged sorcerer attack power through a dagger, you can use the power as a melee attack. If you do so, the power's range equals your melee reach.

    That's awesome.

    Aegeri on
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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    "Weapon group"? That's groups like "spear" or "heavy blade" right?
    So if you have a versatile spear and take this feat twice, once for "versatile" and once for "spear" the bonuses are cumulative? Hot.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Holy nuts batman!
    Sorcerous Blade Channeling
    Prerequisite: Sorcerer
    Benefit: When you use any ranged sorcerer attack power through a dagger, you can use the power as a melee attack. If you do so, the power's range equals your melee reach.

    That's awesome.

    That is pretty bad ass - does anyone know if any of their higher-level encounter/daily powers are clear upgrades to an AD rogue's equivalent ones?

    MikeMcSomething on
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    "Weapon group"? That's groups like "spear" or "heavy blade" right?
    So if you have a versatile spear and take this feat twice, once for "versatile" and once for "spear" the bonuses are cumulative? Hot.

    Versatile is a property, not a weapon group.

    However you are probably right now I consider it, because you could have a double sword (light blade and heavy blade) and theoretically, this does stack (as they are two weapon groups).

    Edit: This works on three other weapons off the top of my head, the Glaive, Halberd and the Longspear. Both have two weapon groups.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    "Weapon group"? That's groups like "spear" or "heavy blade" right?
    So if you have a versatile spear and take this feat twice, once for "versatile" and once for "spear" the bonuses are cumulative? Hot.

    Don't have my books but I'm pretty sure that's a property, so you can pick "Light Blade" but you can't pick "Defensive" to get double bonus to hit with a Parrying Dagger or Doublefagsword.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    But you could pick light/heavy, because, you know, fucking Double Sword.

    MikeMcSomething on
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