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  • edited March 2009
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm curious about the thought process behind the fucking double weapons.

    Was it like "You know, we typically have wicked power creep, but what if power creep had like, a mascot?"

    Or was it "Woo Hoo I'm surfing on a wave of money from the 4th ed release lets get some more hookers up in this bitch wait what we're writing a book aww fuck it!"

    MikeMcSomething on
  • edited March 2009
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  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    See, that makes sense as a real weapon, even though it's still pretty much a Defensive Rapier.

    At that point though I think the Rapier would just need a slight boost.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • edited March 2009
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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I can already see Expertise being banned outright in some campaigns, and house-ruled to a feat bonus in almost all others.

    Though, I can't say my Tiefling Chaladin would mind being able to use both Weapon Expertise and Hellfire Blood. (And Melee Training is just icing, since the original plan was to get HBO eventually anyways)

    Maddoc on
  • DajianDajian Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Question: If I score a critical hit as a ranger does my quarry damage get maximized as well?

    Dajian on
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I assume there must be lovely printable maps of Kobold Hall somewhere out there on the net?

    I'd look myself but I'm at work now and am hoping that if I ask now, some generous person will have provided a link for me by the time I'm free of the daily shackles.

    Also any idea when PHBII hit's europe? I'd just stick the pre-order on amazon and wait for the surprise in the post but I'm moving house immenently and don't want it going to the wrong address!

    Jam Warrior on
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  • ThemindtakerThemindtaker Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I assume there must be lovely printable maps of Kobold Hall somewhere out there on the net?

    I'd look myself but I'm at work now and am hoping that if I ask now, some generous person will have provided a link for me by the time I'm free of the daily shackles.

    Also any idea when PHBII hit's europe? I'd just stick the pre-order on amazon and wait for the surprise in the post but I'm moving house immenently and don't want it going to the wrong address!

    I googled Kobold Hall and the first result on the images page looks like what you might want (though it's not terrifically high-res, I imagine it'd do the trick.

    No clue on the release date, sorry - work's got me blocked from most promising PHB II results.

    RE: these ridiculous PHB II feats - I coulda sworn they said early on they're shying away from must-have feats. if we all harass them about this discrepancy now, do you think they would offer an explanation by release?

    I just mean, even if it is as someone suggested and they think we've got too many feat slots and to-hit imbalances at higher levels, using a feat to fix that instead of a major point of clarification in the book just seems to encourage metagame thinking which contradicts the whole feel of 4E. It seems worth asking about in any case, but that's just me.

    Themindtaker on
  • DajianDajian Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Someone has finally helpfully posted the text:
    Weapon Expertise
    Benefit: Choose a weapon group. You gain +1 bonus to attack rolls with any weapon power you use with a weapon from that group. The bonus increases to +2 at 15th lvl and to +3 at 25th lvl.
    Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon group.

    And on a quick re-read I think it has protected itself with the requirement it's a "weapon power".

    But expect there to be drama later.

    If that is the case then I think you would be able to carry the bonus to attack over and use it with basic attacks since on pg. 287 of PHBI it says "A basic attack is an at-will attack power that everyone possesses, regardless of class" so Basic attacks and OAs are powers as well and have the weapon keyword.

    Melee Basic Attack
    You resort to the simple attack you learned when you first picked up a melee weapon.
    At-Will ✦ Weapon
    Standard Action Melee weapon
    Target: One creature
    Attack: Strength vs. AC
    Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.
    Increase damage to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.
    Special: You can use an unarmed attack as a weapon to make a melee basic attack.

    Dajian on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dajian wrote: »
    Question: If I score a critical hit as a ranger does my quarry damage get maximized as well?

    Yes.

    Arkady on
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  • Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So, I checked out yeoldemapmaker.com. Good stuff, I can dig it.

    I'm kind of curious how most DMs here are revealing dungeons and stuff to their players. Do they just lay out the dungeon map and have players discover hidden/unseen things as they go through, or do they have a way of slowly revealing the layout as the players explore the dungeon?

    I need somethign less troublesome than trying to draw out the entire dungeon as they go. It slows things down, it's not fun, and it looks bland.

    Silas Brown on
  • DajianDajian Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Arkady wrote: »
    Dajian wrote: »
    Question: If I score a critical hit as a ranger does my quarry damage get maximized as well?

    Yes.

    Do you know where in the PHB is says that cause I have gotten both answers so far. The only reference I can find is that extra damage is always rolled (This is referring to the extra damage from a magical weapon, but I assumed it meant other sources of extra damage as well).

    Dajian on
  • edited March 2009
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  • DajianDajian Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    No, your hunters quarry and sneak attack (curse etc) damage is the same as rolling damage for the actual weapon on a hit: so it gets maximised as well. The only damage that isn't maximised are things that trigger off critical hits, like the extra dice from enhancement bonuses and high critical weapons.

    In short, any dice you were rolling BEFORE the critical hit are maximsed. Any dice you roll AFTER a critical hit are not maximised.

    Edit: Page 278. Damage from a curse, hunters quarry are only reliant on you scoring a hit: not a critical hit. So their damage would be maximised first as part of the damage of the attack.


    I bow before the master. Thanks man.

    Dajian on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So, I checked out yeoldemapmaker.com. Good stuff, I can dig it.

    I'm kind of curious how most DMs here are revealing dungeons and stuff to their players. Do they just lay out the dungeon map and have players discover hidden/unseen things as they go through, or do they have a way of slowly revealing the layout as the players explore the dungeon?

    I need somethign less troublesome than trying to draw out the entire dungeon as they go. It slows things down, it's not fun, and it looks bland.

    I use the slow, unfun, and bland drawing stuff out method.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • ThemindtakerThemindtaker Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So, I checked out yeoldemapmaker.com. Good stuff, I can dig it.

    I'm kind of curious how most DMs here are revealing dungeons and stuff to their players. Do they just lay out the dungeon map and have players discover hidden/unseen things as they go through, or do they have a way of slowly revealing the layout as the players explore the dungeon?

    I need somethign less troublesome than trying to draw out the entire dungeon as they go. It slows things down, it's not fun, and it looks bland.

    I use the slow, unfun, and bland drawing stuff out method.

    See, I really prefer this method myself, the reveal as you go.

    My PCs can generally look forward to a map made on MSPaint or hand drawn in sharpie for our RL games because that's the extent of my graphical software library, so that's what they get. Besides, a couple lines of sharpie takes less time than thinking up the NPC's actions. Of course, I bow to Denada's map skills.

    And as a PC, I like the "revealing stuff as the characters can see it" method. It builds suspense and, at least for me, helps with the immersion when I can only see as far down the hall as Derek (or Berenden) can.

    Themindtaker on
  • Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So, I checked out yeoldemapmaker.com. Good stuff, I can dig it.

    I'm kind of curious how most DMs here are revealing dungeons and stuff to their players. Do they just lay out the dungeon map and have players discover hidden/unseen things as they go through, or do they have a way of slowly revealing the layout as the players explore the dungeon?

    I need somethign less troublesome than trying to draw out the entire dungeon as they go. It slows things down, it's not fun, and it looks bland.

    I use the slow, unfun, and bland drawing stuff out method.

    See, I really prefer this method myself, the reveal as you go.

    My PCs can generally look forward to a map made on MSPaint or hand drawn in sharpie for our RL games because that's the extent of my graphical software library, so that's what they get. Besides, a couple lines of sharpie takes less time than thinking up the NPC's actions. Of course, I bow to Denada's map skills.

    And as a PC, I like the "revealing stuff as the characters can see it" method. It builds suspense and, at least for me, helps with the immersion when I can only see as far down the hall as Derek (or Berenden) can.

    I do prefer revealing it as we go, I just find it difficult to orchestrate in any way that is engaging to the players and doesn't involve me flailing around the table, the players, and their stuff as I try to draw the lines everywhere.

    Silas Brown on
  • LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    My DM just covered bits of the map with other papers on the table until we entered those halls or rooms. It was crude, but it worked.

    [Edit]
    That's when he was using pre-made maps for our uses. Otherwise, he would just draw as we go on his battlemat.

    LaOs on
  • edited March 2009
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  • ThemindtakerThemindtaker Registered User regular
    edited March 2009

    I do prefer revealing it as we go, I just find it difficult to orchestrate in any way that is engaging to the players and doesn't involve me flailing around the table, the players, and their stuff as I try to draw the lines everywhere.

    Ah, yeah, that can be obnoxious. To avoid it my RL groups tend to play on the floor, which helps that issue because it gives everyone enough personal space to spread out their sheets and cards so that the only thing on the board (a posterboard-sized-pad of grid paper) are the PC/NPC tokens (in our case, just pieces of paper) and perhaps an errant die or two.

    Though if you don't have space for a reasonable floor-butt ratio, I'm out of suggestions.

    Themindtaker on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    You have to use something as a weapon to get a weapon focus for it. This is why wizards cannot take weapon focus (staff) and get +'s to damage with it.

    Goumindong on
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  • DortmunderDortmunder Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Weapon Training is going to be great for my dexterity based eladrin spear fighter...if I ever get to be a PC one day :P

    Dortmunder on
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  • Ultra ViresUltra Vires Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    RE: these ridiculous PHB II feats - I coulda sworn they said early on they're shying away from must-have feats. if we all harass them about this discrepancy now, do you think they would offer an explanation by release?

    No, I really don't think so.

    Ultra Vires on
    PASchaefer
    Playing Regularly: D&D 4E "Iomandra Campaign", "Rise of the Runelords", "Custom Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil", [DMing] "Upheaval"; Team Fortress 2.
  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's sounding more and more like PHBII is going to be a worthwhile purchase. Or, at least hanging onto my DDI subscription so that I can get the important bits out of it.

    Denada on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I know this is a long way off, but how does everyone expect the Necromancer class to work? The Necromancy powers presented in the recent Dragon article are nice, but I like the idea of a class that controls multiple undead minions that follow him around better than a wizard who can raise one undead for one battle and possibly dominate another.

    In fact, I was thinking of writing up a ritual that emulated Create Dead but ultimately decided to wait for the Necromancer (unless a player really really wants undead minions before then). I was thinking along the lines of a small group of undead that follow the caster and are controlled similarly to summoned creatures but attack the PCs once the duration of the caster's control is up.

    Although I've decided to pass on this idea (for now), I must admit I have an interest in writing up several 3E spells as 4E rituals.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Part 2 of the Game Geeks "review" of 4E is up, for those of you interested. I'm not gonna watch it, but I did read the comments, and apparently Kurt pimps Pathfinder out as the one-true savior of DnD.

    Good thing I didn't watch it or I would have had a conniption fit.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I know this is a long way off, but how does everyone expect the Necromancer class to work? The Necromancy powers presented in the recent Dragon article are nice, but I like the idea of a class that controls multiple undead minions that follow him around better than a wizard who can raise one undead for one battle and possibly dominate another.

    In fact, I was thinking of writing up a ritual that emulated Create Dead but ultimately decided to wait for the Necromancer (unless a player really really wants undead minions before then). I was thinking along the lines of a small group of undead that follow the caster and are controlled similarly to summoned creatures but attack the PCs once the duration of the caster's control is up.

    Although I've decided to pass on this idea (for now), I must admit I have an interest in writing up several 3E spells as 4E rituals.

    Considering the necromancer will probably have more than one minion (as a controller), they'll have to condense their actions somehow. I imagine something along the lines of minor to move one minion, and at-will powers that cause all of them to attack at once. Perhaps even some kind of sacrifice ability that causes a minion to explode in a cloud of rot and shadow.

    Edit: The sacrifice thing to emphasize the triviality of life and death, rather than a Ranger's deeper attachment to his animal companion.

    templewulf on
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  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Anyone here feel like e-mailing me episode three of the podcast that came out yesterday? Can't get to Wizards' site from here...

    gpia7r [at] gmail, for those generous types :)

    GPIA7R on
  • PantheraOncaPantheraOnca Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Dajian wrote: »
    Arkady wrote: »
    Dajian wrote: »
    Question: If I score a critical hit as a ranger does my quarry damage get maximized as well?

    Yes.

    Do you know where in the PHB is says that cause I have gotten both answers so far. The only reference I can find is that extra damage is always rolled (This is referring to the extra damage from a magical weapon, but I assumed it meant other sources of extra damage as well).

    No, your hunters quarry and sneak attack (curse etc) damage is the same as rolling damage for the actual weapon on a hit: so it gets maximised as well. The only damage that isn't maximised are things that trigger off critical hits, like the extra dice from enhancement bonuses and high critical weapons.

    In short, any dice you were rolling BEFORE the critical hit are maximsed. Any dice you roll AFTER a critical hit are not maximised.

    Edit: Page 278. Damage from a curse, hunters quarry are only reliant on you scoring a hit: not a critical hit. So their damage would be maximised first as part of the damage of the attack.

    huh, i always thought that you didnt maximize the class thingy damage.

    the more you now!

    (lolbluedot)

    PantheraOnca on
  • ravensmuseravensmuse Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Anyone here feel like e-mailing me episode three of the podcast that came out yesterday? Can't get to Wizards' site from here...

    gpia7r [at] gmail, for those generous types :)

    Check Wil Wheaton's blog. He's been linking to the direct mp3 link for those of us stuck behind work filters.

    Japan folks always get their stuff early. A lot of rpg material gets released early on, so it's worth checking rpg.net's forums to see if any of them have it and are talking about it. If it's a big, major release, like when Dreams of the First Age for Exalted came out, someone will have it and be talking about it (though in that case, it was a Finnish reader that got it first).

    ravensmuse on
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  • cytorakcytorak Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I thought the 3rd Episode is the best so far; I'm just glad I control the work filter. :)

    cytorak on
  • The Big ShingThe Big Shing Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hey all, I just updated yeoldemapmaker.com with a few small things. I'm trying to clean it up first before I tackle anything major.

    Specifically added:
    -a line to show you where the page split is
    -closed doors
    -1/2 walls so that you can line up your doors with the 5foot grid
    -a display of how many public maps are available in each category (its in the drop-down menu of the loading screen)


    Where on WillWhetons blog are the podcasts? I'm having a hard time finding them... /darkness.

    The Big Shing on
    Yeoldemapmaker.com = my sweet flash site where you can design and print DnD maps for free directly from browser.
  • MaticoreMaticore A Will To Power Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Holy nuts batman!
    Sorcerous Blade Channeling
    Prerequisite: Sorcerer
    Benefit: When you use any ranged sorcerer attack power through a dagger, you can use the power as a melee attack. If you do so, the power's range equals your melee reach.

    That's awesome.

    That is pretty bad ass - does anyone know if any of their higher-level encounter/daily powers are clear upgrades to an AD rogue's equivalent ones?

    Man quoted for awesome. This feat is completely rocking, here's to bringing back the arcane trickster!

    Maticore on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm actually a pretty big fan of the weapon expertise feat. Sure, the thing is broken in the hands of a 20 dex dagger rogue or a 20 str fullblade fighter kensei, but for all the people without a class bonus to hit, +3 proficiency weapons or a 20 primary, it's a godsend. Implement expertise will also be damn handy for fort-centric casters, though it is also broken as all hell for will targetters.

    Arkady on
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  • DortmunderDortmunder Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Podcast GET!

    Since I'm such a nice guy I put Episode 3 of the DnD podcast up on my site here:

    Right-click and "Save As": http://www.thetreaclemine.com/get/dnd3.mp3

    Don't kill my bandwidth or I won't be nice anymore :P

    Dortmunder on
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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So due to work scheduling conflicts my group hasn't met since October and I'm itching to play some D&D. There's a slim possibility of starting my own group up again every other Friday, but that's still up in the air so I'm thinking of trying some online gaming. Is there a good tutorial/explanation of how you guys run the IC/OOC threads and what software/sites you use? Or when or how you run the games online? Anyone starting anything new?

    ArcSyn on
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  • ThemindtakerThemindtaker Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    So due to work scheduling conflicts my group hasn't met since October and I'm itching to play some D&D. There's a slim possibility of starting my own group up again every other Friday, but that's still up in the air so I'm thinking of trying some online gaming. Is there a good tutorial/explanation of how you guys run the IC/OOC threads and what software/sites you use? Or when or how you run the games online? Anyone starting anything new?

    Well, for Denada's and Cytorak's games at least, it's myth weavers for character sheets and invisible castle for rolls.

    I've never been able to figure out maptools, so hopefully someone can suggest a tutorial for that for both of us.

    EDIT: I did throw up a campaign backdrop over on the campaign creation thread (probably 2nd or 3rd page of this forum right now), if people are interested (i know dortmunder's been itching for a game too) I'd be willing to give DMing a PbP (or other online format if schedules aligned) game a try

    Themindtaker on
  • Rand TorganRand Torgan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I have a question if someone would be kind enough to answer. I own a chessex battlemat and have used it for battles. However, I've been thinking of buying a few sets of the Dungeon Tiles Wotc sells. Has anyone used these for 4th ed, and if so, would you recommend them?

    Rand Torgan on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm part of a couple online DnD groups (we play by AIM), and we use gametable for maps.

    It's a pretty sweet utility, and it also comes with a die roller.

    Arkan on
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