I hate the feeling wrestling gives me these days. The nostalgia of how much I used to love it as a kid feels contaminated by the current product and I'm not 100% sure what it is they're doing wrong but it just doesn't feel the same. Maybe we were spoiled by the golden era before and during the attitude era. Or perhaps they just hit the nail on the head during those days and are struggling to find its current niche. Maybe being a youngster at the time factors into it but these days it seems like a parody of itself, some form of self-aware exploitation. I remember it being a genuinely entertaining product but any time I watch lately I feel like they're trying too hard. Or maybe they're not trying hard enough. Not that wrestling was too great at the time when WCW went down, but only a fool would argue the lack of a major competitor didn't change the fundamental product.
For a long time I felt it was just the writing - wrestling had stayed the same which to me felt like a denial of the natural evolution of the product... if only competent writers could come in and tone down the shock value soap opera shit in favor of a more appropriate model in this modern age of the internet where technical prowess could take the front seat and ridiculousness kept at a minimum. It just hasn't evolved and sometimes it's downright silly. A lot of this seems to be Vince's fault, when he convinces himself he's right there's no changing things. I met Vince's kids when my mom used to work for WWF, got to play around in the Greenwich headquarters. Fun tidbit: I got to hang out in the coffin prior to it being used for the Undertaker/Yokozuna casket match. When Vince is out of there, I fully expect Shane and Stephanie to reinvent the product. It might be subtle but I couldn't imagine it not happening. They're really bright, nice people.
Someone with enough income that the hemorraging a new wrestling company would bring wouldn't hurt them.
Which is what Ted Turner did. Despite WCW losing money, he was making enough with his other companies that it didn't matter until things turned around in '96.
I think there was just way more wrestling than there is today. And they were entertaining matches too. I am sick of all the backstage stuff they do today. Seems like the shows are 85% backstage/talking and 15% wrestling (if that). And wrestlers used to have gimmicks. Now they are all just regular people.
I have four old school wrestling figures on my shelf right here (for fire pro editing reasons). They are each so different and interesting. Ultimate Warrior (insanely powerful guy), Macho Man/King (ooooh yeaa), Rowdy Piper (wears a kilt and seemed to have a temper), and the Undertaker (dead guy). Now?
I think one of the main problems is WWE doesn't give a shit about the midcard anymore. There used to be storylines aplenty for those guys who were still clawing their way to the top. Now? There's like... 4 stories across 2 shows, at best. How do they expect other guys to get over if they don't give them shit to work with?
For a long time I felt it was just the writing - wrestling had stayed the same which to me felt like a denial of the natural evolution of the product... if only competent writers could come in and tone down the shock value soap opera shit in favor of a more appropriate model in this modern age of the internet where technical prowess could take the front seat and ridiculousness kept at a minimum.
I used to love the I.C. title scene. Hell, I used to love the tag team scene. There were so many teams. LOD, Godwins, Bodydonnas, Smoking Guns, Headbangers, etc etc.
Decided to watch RAW last night after watching nothing but huge backlogs of old ECW tapes for the past couple months. The Jericho angle is pretty interesting, Big Show/Vicki is disgusting. John Cena is so over it is ridiculous.
I think the most bullshit stuff about modern WWE aside from the current storylines is the commercial breaks in the middle of fucking matches. I was actually enjoying the MIB match until they cut it right as Kane got tagged in.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
Didn't that Raw go to like, 11:30 or something? I distinctly remember that match lasting well past the standard 11:05.
The crowd pops for everyone in that match is an absolutely crazy level. There hasn't been pops like that for anyone in the WWE in a long long time.
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TrueHereticXWe are the future Charles, not them. They no longer matter.Sydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
Didn't that Raw go to like, 11:30 or something? I distinctly remember that match lasting well past the standard 11:05.
The crowd pops for everyone in that match is an absolutely crazy level. There hasn't been pops like that for anyone in the WWE in a long long time.
Man I remember watching that one
And it was back when Triple H looked borderline normal
Edit: I'd forgotten how much Too Cool were involved in that match, but goddamn that must have been a good push for them
2nd Edit: And the Kane bit at the end... Terrifying
You know I can't remember if Too Cool had a finisher other than losing.
Remember when Shamrock broke the guys ankle?
Youch
Remember when Tank Abbot first debuted in WCW and they tried to sell his punches as "knock outs" but when his chubby ass couldn't hit a guy in the chin it became a heart punch? That was hilarious.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
Didn't that Raw go to like, 11:30 or something? I distinctly remember that match lasting well past the standard 11:05.
The crowd pops for everyone in that match is an absolutely crazy level. There hasn't been pops like that for anyone in the WWE in a long long time.
Man I remember watching that one
And it was back when Triple H looked borderline normal
Edit: I'd forgotten how much Too Cool were involved in that match, but goddamn that must have been a good push for them
2nd Edit: And the Kane bit at the end... Terrifying
I love that Foley hits Benoit off of whoever that was he was pinning. He was pinning the wrong guy (Cactus was legal from what I saw) and Foley hit him to stop the pin but HHH didn't try to stop him I guess like he was supposed to. Heh. Still an awesome match.
You know I can't remember if Too Cool had a finisher other than losing.
* WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Hotty and Rikishi[6]
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time) – Rikishi[5]
* WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (1 time) – Scotty 2 Hotty[3]
* WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Sexay and Hotty[4]
You know I can't remember if Too Cool had a finisher other than losing.
* WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Hotty and Rikishi[6]
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time) – Rikishi[5]
* WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (1 time) – Scotty 2 Hotty[3]
* WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Sexay and Hotty[4]
Well I know Rikishi had a finisher, man the tag champs even... good lord.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
You know I can't remember if Too Cool had a finisher other than losing.
* WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Hotty and Rikishi[6]
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time) – Rikishi[5]
* WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (1 time) – Scotty 2 Hotty[3]
* WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Sexay and Hotty[4]
Too Cool was always silly, but they were fun. It was too bad when they got run out of the company.
It's funny, I don't have any desire to really watch wrestling anymore, but I can look back at the old DX stuff, esp. when the Rock was involved, and man. That shit is compelling. Or, to take it back to last thread, those clips of Jake the Snake vs. Macho Man. Before my time in terms of really watching it, but there's definite edge there.
I see clips from today, and it just seems stilted to me. I think it's mostly that a lot of the most charismatic people from the 90s heyday moved on/slowed down/burnt out, and they haven't replaced them with equivalent stars.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Too Cool was always silly, but they were fun. It was too bad when they got run out of the company.
It's funny, I don't have any desire to really watch wrestling anymore, but I can look back at the old DX stuff, esp. when the Rock was involved, and man. That shit is compelling. Or, to take it back to last thread, those clips of Jake the Snake vs. Macho Man. Before my time in terms of really watching it, but there's definite edge there.
I see clips from today, and it just seems stilted to me. I think it's mostly that a lot of the most charismatic people from the 90s heyday moved on/slowed down/burnt out, and they haven't replaced them with equivalent stars.
It's pretty much because Vince doesn't want stars being hurt. Thats why you never see any real rope moves or real high flying turnbuckles moves as often anymore. Those aren't the only reason, but it's a part of it.
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Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
For high flying matches we probably got to hope for Evan Bourne and Rey Mysterio to meet in the ring. But other than that alot of the high risk / High impact moves are long gone. You'd never see someone thrown off the roof of a Hell in the Cell any more or Kane leaping off the top of a cage for a Flying Clothesline from hell. Its a shame cause alot of those HOLY SHIT moments when a guy does something no one expects does the seemingly impossible/Utterly dangerous that makes JR sound like he's three seconds away from a heart attack. OHH GAWD HE'S BEEN BROKEN IN HALF SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD CALL A MEDIC!!!
Now that I think about it I'm shocked Lawler can hear out of his left ear after sitting next to JR all those years.
The funny thing is that still hasn't stopped injuries. Guys are still getting injured even on the more tamer stuff.
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astrobstrdSo full of mercy...Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
A lot of the problem is the touring schedule. If they cut out house shows and just let their guys work once or MAYBE twice in a week, they could do crazy stuff and not get hurt nearly as often. They also should soften the mat.
Also, probably the best way to get hurt is to constantly worry about getting hurt.
And this whole "safer working style" is the reason John Cena's finisher is the weakest looking thing I've ever seen. Just have him do the STF and be done with it. This... whatever they're calling it now because the F-U isn't PG has always been terrible. Some weird-ass side-flopping fireman's carry that they pretend is a Death Valley Driver is pretty pathetic.
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
And this whole "safer working style" is the reason John Cena's finisher is the weakest looking thing I've ever seen. Just have him do the STF and be done with it. This... whatever they're calling it now because the F-U isn't PG has always been terrible. Some weird-ass side-flopping fireman's carry that they pretend is a Death Valley Driver is pretty pathetic.
It's kinda funny that the F5 is a great finisher, the FU is an awful one. Why? Because in one the guy lands on his front, the other on his back.
Well, maybe not great, but noone had a problem with it.
The F-5 was a good finisher because it was unique. No, it wasn't particularly impactful, but it took a lot of athleticism to get a guy up there and swing them around like that. It looked cool, and as far as I know, no one had done anything like that up to that point.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
That video is some of the best stuff I've seen in awhile. If the WWE could just bring 1/10th of that back it might be worth watching.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
That video is some of the best stuff I've seen in awhile. If the WWE could just bring 1/10th of that back it might be worth watching.
You know what I love about that video, the pop the worm gets.
Holy Crap I remember watching this on TV when I was in college, I completely freaked out when Paul Bearer came out. Was a little let down by Kane, but Paul Bearer showing up was rad
I'm Not up on TNA all that much (for obvious reasons) but match really caught my attention. This is from TNA's Victory Road 08 PPV as part of their World X Cup Tournament. After watching this match last ngiht (twice in fact) I had to ask myself two questions:
1. Why can't wrestling be this good all the time?
2. Why can't we at least see something like this in WWE?
Part of the reason is Vince hates anyone who isn't huge. Another part is TNA doesn't have the schedule that WWE does, so all their guys have plenty of time to rest up in between tapings, which means that they can do more high risk shit without having to be as concerned about injury as a WWE guy who's on the road 5 days a week.
TNA is really no better than the WWE at this point. The X Division is an afterthought, and the same guys we've been watching main event since 1998 are still main eventing, and very few new stars have broken through.
Too Cool was always silly, but they were fun. It was too bad when they got run out of the company.
It's funny, I don't have any desire to really watch wrestling anymore, but I can look back at the old DX stuff, esp. when the Rock was involved, and man. That shit is compelling. Or, to take it back to last thread, those clips of Jake the Snake vs. Macho Man. Before my time in terms of really watching it, but there's definite edge there.
I see clips from today, and it just seems stilted to me. I think it's mostly that a lot of the most charismatic people from the 90s heyday moved on/slowed down/burnt out, and they haven't replaced them with equivalent stars.
It's pretty much because Vince doesn't want stars being hurt. Thats why you never see any real rope moves or real high flying turnbuckles moves as often anymore. Those aren't the only reason, but it's a part of it.
I don't even know if this is really it. Like, in that DX/radicals/cactus jack match, there's only a little bit of high flying stuff.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Too Cool was always silly, but they were fun. It was too bad when they got run out of the company.
It's funny, I don't have any desire to really watch wrestling anymore, but I can look back at the old DX stuff, esp. when the Rock was involved, and man. That shit is compelling. Or, to take it back to last thread, those clips of Jake the Snake vs. Macho Man. Before my time in terms of really watching it, but there's definite edge there.
I see clips from today, and it just seems stilted to me. I think it's mostly that a lot of the most charismatic people from the 90s heyday moved on/slowed down/burnt out, and they haven't replaced them with equivalent stars.
It's pretty much because Vince doesn't want stars being hurt. Thats why you never see any real rope moves or real high flying turnbuckles moves as often anymore. Those aren't the only reason, but it's a part of it.
I don't even know if this is really it. Like, in that DX/radicals/cactus jack match, there's only a little bit of high flying stuff.
To be fair, none of those guys were high fliers in the sense that they did a ton of top rope moves. Eddie had the Frog Splash, Benoit did the diving headbutt... everyone had maybe one or two top rope moves in their regular arsenal. I mean, you're not gonna see Dean Malenko hit a 450 splash. If you compare the cruiserweights in ROH or even TNA's X Division, then you start to see how their movesets are stifled by Vince and Co.
Posts
Correct
For a long time I felt it was just the writing - wrestling had stayed the same which to me felt like a denial of the natural evolution of the product... if only competent writers could come in and tone down the shock value soap opera shit in favor of a more appropriate model in this modern age of the internet where technical prowess could take the front seat and ridiculousness kept at a minimum. It just hasn't evolved and sometimes it's downright silly. A lot of this seems to be Vince's fault, when he convinces himself he's right there's no changing things. I met Vince's kids when my mom used to work for WWF, got to play around in the Greenwich headquarters. Fun tidbit: I got to hang out in the coffin prior to it being used for the Undertaker/Yokozuna casket match. When Vince is out of there, I fully expect Shane and Stephanie to reinvent the product. It might be subtle but I couldn't imagine it not happening. They're really bright, nice people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfie2JFpLGE
I miss these days. Not sure what King is trying to say at 3:02, though.
I think we just need a formidable opponent to WWE. Some real competition. Not sure where it would come from though.
Which is what Ted Turner did. Despite WCW losing money, he was making enough with his other companies that it didn't matter until things turned around in '96.
I have four old school wrestling figures on my shelf right here (for fire pro editing reasons). They are each so different and interesting. Ultimate Warrior (insanely powerful guy), Macho Man/King (ooooh yeaa), Rowdy Piper (wears a kilt and seemed to have a temper), and the Undertaker (dead guy). Now?
Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
[3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Sounds like ROH would be right up your alley.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
[3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
I think the most bullshit stuff about modern WWE aside from the current storylines is the commercial breaks in the middle of fucking matches. I was actually enjoying the MIB match until they cut it right as Kane got tagged in.
There's the match. It's one of my favorite Raw matches ever. And Jesus, rewatching it, it's insane to hear the crowd. This was when the WWE was really firing on all cylinders.
Didn't that Raw go to like, 11:30 or something? I distinctly remember that match lasting well past the standard 11:05.
The crowd pops for everyone in that match is an absolutely crazy level. There hasn't been pops like that for anyone in the WWE in a long long time.
Man I remember watching that one
And it was back when Triple H looked borderline normal
Edit: I'd forgotten how much Too Cool were involved in that match, but goddamn that must have been a good push for them
2nd Edit: And the Kane bit at the end... Terrifying
pleasepaypreacher.net
Remember when Shamrock broke the guys ankle?
Youch
Remember when Tank Abbot first debuted in WCW and they tried to sell his punches as "knock outs" but when his chubby ass couldn't hit a guy in the chin it became a heart punch? That was hilarious.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I love that Foley hits Benoit off of whoever that was he was pinning. He was pinning the wrong guy (Cactus was legal from what I saw) and Foley hit him to stop the pin but HHH didn't try to stop him I guess like he was supposed to. Heh. Still an awesome match.
Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
[3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
* WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Hotty and Rikishi[6]
* WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time) – Rikishi[5]
* WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (1 time) – Scotty 2 Hotty[3]
* WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) – Sexay and Hotty[4]
Well I know Rikishi had a finisher, man the tag champs even... good lord.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Thats Grand Master Sexay
It's funny, I don't have any desire to really watch wrestling anymore, but I can look back at the old DX stuff, esp. when the Rock was involved, and man. That shit is compelling. Or, to take it back to last thread, those clips of Jake the Snake vs. Macho Man. Before my time in terms of really watching it, but there's definite edge there.
I see clips from today, and it just seems stilted to me. I think it's mostly that a lot of the most charismatic people from the 90s heyday moved on/slowed down/burnt out, and they haven't replaced them with equivalent stars.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Now that I think about it I'm shocked Lawler can hear out of his left ear after sitting next to JR all those years.
Also, probably the best way to get hurt is to constantly worry about getting hurt.
It's kinda funny that the F5 is a great finisher, the FU is an awful one. Why? Because in one the guy lands on his front, the other on his back.
Well, maybe not great, but noone had a problem with it.
Scotty would do the worm and then Sexay would put on his goggles and finish em off with a leg drop from the top rope
That video is some of the best stuff I've seen in awhile. If the WWE could just bring 1/10th of that back it might be worth watching.
AC City folk=2965-2082-7154
For the benefit of those with flash photography...
You know what I love about that video, the pop the worm gets.
Holy Crap I remember watching this on TV when I was in college, I completely freaked out when Paul Bearer came out. Was a little let down by Kane, but Paul Bearer showing up was rad
1. Why can't wrestling be this good all the time?
2. Why can't we at least see something like this in WWE?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k17ZbOZ25s4&feature=PlayList&p=65AE896F2BA516D7&index=0&playnext=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcLfJpao-W8&feature=PlayList&p=65AE896F2BA516D7&index=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkEYu709bI8&feature=PlayList&p=65AE896F2BA516D7&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc2y1eFx9Ww&feature=PlayList&p=65AE896F2BA516D7&index=3
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
I don't even know if this is really it. Like, in that DX/radicals/cactus jack match, there's only a little bit of high flying stuff.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
To be fair, none of those guys were high fliers in the sense that they did a ton of top rope moves. Eddie had the Frog Splash, Benoit did the diving headbutt... everyone had maybe one or two top rope moves in their regular arsenal. I mean, you're not gonna see Dean Malenko hit a 450 splash. If you compare the cruiserweights in ROH or even TNA's X Division, then you start to see how their movesets are stifled by Vince and Co.