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Your version of the ideal world.

russia32russia32 Registered User regular
edited December 2006 in Debate and/or Discourse
If you had complete control of mankind's destiny, what would you do? Think of yourself as an immortal global dictator, unquestioned by humans.

What would the global population be? Would there be different classes? Or countries? Would there be religion? What would cities be like?

Would the world be similar to as it is or something vastly different, almost alien?

russia32 on
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Posts

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    I'd construct a situation such that everyone died at the exact same moment so that we could attack whatever afterlife their happens to be en masse and so take it over and create a perfect unending afterlife existence.

    Also, everyone who wanted one would have an afterlife pony.

    _J_ on
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    All the people living for today.

    Except _J_, he's not there.

    Yar on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Small, self-sufficient communities designed to offer members the maximum amount of leisure and distribute responsibilities in a way that gives each tasks that plays to their strengths without depending too much on one single person.

    Extensive psychological profiles are used to help make sure communities are only made up of people who are compatible with each other. When problems arise, communities are reorganized in whatever way best resolves the conflict (volatile combinations are separated and integrated into communities that are likely to be more suitable for each person).

    No ownership, no marriage. Any "permanent" coupling is acceptable so long as it doesn't create problems in a group, and if it does a couple is moved to a group that will be more accepting. Abusive relationships are dealt with in the best way possible.

    robosagogo on
  • peterdevorepeterdevore Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    If i want to keep it realistic, I would leave a lot exactly the same, except for a huge effort to make energy as cheap/free as possible. A lot of efforts in science go unexplored because it would cost too much energy. With free energy, electric cars become the best choice, recycling becomes easy, all kinds of environmental and welfare issues can be solved by applying free energy somewhere.

    If you want me to dream, I would first strive for what I mentioned, then I would concentrate mankinds effort toward space and science. I would make reserves for people not willing to live in my free society and place free foodbanks at the edges.

    How much crime will this solve? How much environmental damage can this prevent? What will people care about if there is (good) free food and housing for everyone? What will the salvation army become?

    peterdevore on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Need information. Do we suddently take over the world today and impose our will using perfect political/military means? Or are we all powerful and can reshape reality? Do we have time-travel abilities to go back and fix the world by changing key events?

    In the first case, I'd make a confederation of smaller nations. Each member nation is free to do things as they want, provided that they respect some basic Confederation gound rules, such as being democratic (and no jerrymandering or other cheating techniques), respecting a charter of human rights, and so on.

    In the second case, I'd just give everyone infinite ressources and fix all woes and be done with it.

    In the third case, nothing comes to mind. I believe that if we go back and fix bad turns in history, humanity will just find a way to make it go bad in some other way at some other time. We'll be time-travelling forever, and never actually improving anything.

    Richy on
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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Anarcho-capitalism *worldwide*. All economic systems, currencies and languages will be the same across the world. Cultures are free to keep their own languages for personal conversational use, but all speak the same language for all business-related transactions, all of which involve completely free and open trade.

    And no religion. I'm not sure how I'd accomplish that, probably manditory education in a number of different things, including classes in critical thinking and logic from an early age.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    intellectual honesty and skepticism would be some of the most highly valued traits in a sentient being.

    no countries, one federal government.

    that covers most of the bases.

    EDIT: one language.

    Loren Michael on
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  • Chaos TheoryChaos Theory Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I suggest anyone interested in this topic read Proposed Roads to Freedom by Bertrand Russell. A bit old (1918) but brilliant.

    I would advocate a global society based on freedom as the one founding principle. No hierarchy would exist in either the economy or law, and law would only exist as a bare minimum--protecting freedom and not inhibiting it.

    It's anarcho-syndicalism, technically, but don't let the name put you off. I typically go about calling myself a libertarian socialist to avoid complete alienation.

    Anyway, if we're talking far-future a sort of technate would be hopefully included, in which resources could be generated, assembled, and manufactured without human labor.

    Chaos Theory on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    What's so wrong with having multiple languages? I mean, aside from minor annoyances, like having to learn stuff at school, reading subtitles in movies, and not being able to find your way when you're on vacation?

    Having one single language might make life a bit easier for people, but I don't see it as such a major issue that it needs to be included in our visions of a perfect world.

    Richy on
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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Richy wrote:
    What's so wrong with having multiple languages? I mean, aside from minor annoyances, like having to learn stuff at school, reading subtitles in movies, and not being able to find your way when you're on vacation?

    Having one single language might make life a bit easier for people, but I don't see it as such a major issue that it needs to be included in our visions of a perfect world.

    The question is a perfect world, and in a perfect world, I could communicate with anyone...barring declaring that in my perfect world we have crazy awesome automatic translators, I'd much rather just say that yes, in a perfect world, everyone speaks two languages, their own, and a universal language used to conduct affairs with people who don't speak your native language.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    one language.
    Fuck that.

    Aroused Bull on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    In my perfect world, there would be free hookers and beer for everybody. I wouldn't really care for anything else.

    Couscous on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    One measurement system. That makes sense. None of this inches-feet bullshit.

    Psychic link for unhindered communication between people of different languages? Uh... either a population with a maximum of 1 or 2 billion... or a huge population across an empire with multiple planets?

    James on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Like Les Mis, but more singing, less disaffected poor.

    Fencingsax on
  • TalkaTalka Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm not sure, but it would be pretty much the opposite of A Modern Utopia.

    So one no world state, no unlimited resources, no one language, no abolition of religion.

    Also, I'm incredibly doubtful of the claim that infinite resources would actually solve everything. Of course it would help, but it's not enough.

    Talka on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Richy wrote:
    What's so wrong with having multiple languages? I mean, aside from minor annoyances, like having to learn stuff at school, reading subtitles in movies, and not being able to find your way when you're on vacation?

    Having one single language might make life a bit easier for people, but I don't see it as such a major issue that it needs to be included in our visions of a perfect world.
    Fuck that.

    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    we shouldn't have to spend years of schooling just to learn how to talk to someone else. i'm not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend as a beneficial ideal.

    Loren Michael on
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  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Richy wrote:
    What's so wrong with having multiple languages? I mean, aside from minor annoyances, like having to learn stuff at school, reading subtitles in movies, and not being able to find your way when you're on vacation?

    Having one single language might make life a bit easier for people, but I don't see it as such a major issue that it needs to be included in our visions of a perfect world.
    Fuck that.

    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    we shouldn't have to spend years of schooling just to learn how to talk to someone else. i'm not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend as a beneficial ideal.

    Cultural preservation? But we're talking about a perfect world, not our world.

    James on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Jameserson wrote:
    Richy wrote:
    What's so wrong with having multiple languages? I mean, aside from minor annoyances, like having to learn stuff at school, reading subtitles in movies, and not being able to find your way when you're on vacation?

    Having one single language might make life a bit easier for people, but I don't see it as such a major issue that it needs to be included in our visions of a perfect world.
    Fuck that.

    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    we shouldn't have to spend years of schooling just to learn how to talk to someone else. i'm not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend as a beneficial ideal.

    Cultural preservation? But we're talking about a perfect world, not our world.

    i don't think some cultures (or aspects of some cultures) are worth preserving.

    Loren Michael on
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  • designMcGeedesignMcGee Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    My perfect world is this one because I can take advantage of the idiots continuously wishing for a different one.

    designMcGee on
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    One language would be easier but encourages cultural stagnation over time

    nexuscrawler on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Talka wrote:
    Also, I'm incredibly doubtful of the claim that infinite resources would actually solve everything. Of course it would help, but it's not enough.

    Well, considering that we're talking about omnipotent world shaping, I'm sure we could make it work.

    Also, it would be a law that every city must have at least one huge musical number a week regarding one of the following: love, justice, vengeance, honor, duty.

    Fencingsax on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    Different languages have words for concepts that can be missing from other languages. They can describe things with greater or lesser details. They can be more expressive or more simple. All languages are not equal. And you can't make a fictional perfect language that has all the advantages and none of the problems of all real languages, as a lot of these advantages are mutually exclusive and a lot of the problems are consequences of other things we consider advantages.

    Language is also a window into a people's culture and history. A people's language isn't a static, randomly-assigned thing. It's a consequence of their cultural evolution as a society. By eliminating it, you're eliminating part of their culture.

    I've never seen people use language as a definition of in/out cultural groups. It's used as a simplification of the definition. In Québec for instance, the struggle between Francophones and Anglophones isn't strictly about language. It's a struggle of culture and identity stretching back centuries in which the two main parties have very different histories and visions for the future, and which is refered to by language because saying everything I've just said is just too cumbersome. But don't mistake this simplification in notation with a simplification of the issues.
    we shouldn't have to spend years of schooling just to learn how to talk to someone else. i'm not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend as a beneficial ideal.
    I don't consider years of schooling to be detrimental in and of itself, so I don't see going to great lenghts to avoid it as beneficial.

    Richy on
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    One language would be easier but encourages cultural stagnation over time

    elaborate.
    Richy wrote:
    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    Different languages have words for concepts that can be missing from other languages. They can describe things with greater or lesser details. They can be more expressive or more simple. All languages are not equal. And you can't make a fictional perfect language that has all the advantages and none of the problems of all real languages, as a lot of these advantages are mutually exclusive and a lot of the problems are consequences of other things we consider advantages.

    nothing* wrong with adding terminology to an existing language.

    look at the japanese.
    Language is also a window into a people's culture and history. A people's language isn't a static, randomly-assigned thing. It's a consequence of their cultural evolution as a society. By eliminating it, you're eliminating part of their culture.

    i don't think all aspects of a culture are intrinsically valuable, as i noted in a previous post.
    I've never seen people use language as a definition of in/out cultural groups. It's used as a simplification of the definition. In Québec for instance, the struggle between Francophones and Anglophones isn't strictly about language. It's a struggle of culture and identity stretching back centuries in which the two main parties have very different histories and visions for the future, and which is referred to by language because saying everything I've just said is just too cumbersome. But don't mistake this simplification in notation with a simplification of the issues.

    i'm not suggesting that language is the only contentious issue, but it certainly doesn't help. look at africa. effective communication is vital for people who want to get along.
    we shouldn't have to spend years of schooling just to learn how to talk to someone else. i'm not sure why that's so difficult to comprehend as a beneficial ideal.
    I don't consider years of schooling to be detrimental in and of itself, so I don't see going to great lengths to avoid it as beneficial.
    schooling itself isn't detrimental. i, for one, enjoy the hell out of it. but when you have the option of opting out of a subject altogether because it's simply no longer valuable, you can spend your time at school in a more productive way.

    *not a lot. and the japanese may have been a bad example. but whatever.

    Loren Michael on
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  • xraydogxraydog Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pretty much what people have said so far I agree with. I couldn't care less how society is structured just as long as people aren't dicks. So if I had unlimited power I wouldn't shape the world so much as get the people who live in it to stop being stupid.

    xraydog on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    ITT: Loren Michael founds the United States of Sapir-Whorf.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Feral wrote:
    ITT: Loren Michael founds the United States of Sapir-Whorf.

    that doesn't really play into my desire to have only one language. mostly, it just seems to stand to reason that easier communication = easier relations.

    Loren Michael on
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  • edited November 2006
    This content has been removed.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Feral wrote:
    ITT: Loren Michael founds the United States of Sapir-Whorf.

    that doesn't really play into my desire to have only one language. mostly, it just seems to stand to reason that easier communication = easier relations.
    If I was going to convert the world to one language, it would not be a language any of us know. It would be a completely synthetic language, engineered to remove inbuilt gender biases, prejudices and other distinctions. While you'd still be able to do these, you'd either have to import words from existing languages or construct a sentence.

    How about just going with e-prime? I think eliminating all forms of the verb "to be" would actually solve a lot of problems.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Feral wrote:
    ITT: Loren Michael founds the United States of Sapir-Whorf.

    that doesn't really play into my desire to have only one language. mostly, it just seems to stand to reason that easier communication = easier relations.
    If I was going to convert the world to one language, it would not be a language any of us know. It would be a completely synthetic language, engineered to remove inbuilt gender biases, prejudices and other distinctions. While you'd still be able to do these, you'd either have to import words from existing languages or construct a sentence.

    i was going to be more pragmatic and just go with an existing popular language, but as long as i have unlimited dictatorial powers, yeah, i'd make up a new one.

    Loren Michael on
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  • Chaos TheoryChaos Theory Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'd go with Loglan or an equivalent as a preferred "world language," though it is against my principles to force such a thing for the sake of efficiency.

    Chaos Theory on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    One language would be easier but encourages cultural stagnation over time

    elaborate.
    Language is part of culture. Standardizing it would be like saying "all theatre plays have to be exactly 60 minutes long, use a cast of 4 main characters and 6 secondary characters, this is the musical score, the decor is built from pieces found in that warehouse only. Aside from that, go nuts!" Sure, it's still possible to make new original plays, but they'll be pretty limited.
    Richy wrote:
    inability to communicate strikes me as an extremely important problem. there are no benefits to multiple languages, not to mention the tribalistic problem of people defining in/out groups based on languages.

    Different languages have words for concepts that can be missing from other languages. They can describe things with greater or lesser details. They can be more expressive or more simple. All languages are not equal. And you can't make a fictional perfect language that has all the advantages and none of the problems of all real languages, as a lot of these advantages are mutually exclusive and a lot of the problems are consequences of other things we consider advantages.

    nothing* wrong with adding terminology to an existing language.

    What about genders? Some languages have two, some have dozens. Some languages have a neutral gender, some don't. There are advantages and inconvenients to all these - obviously more genders makes your language more detailed and expressive, while less makes it simpler and easier to learn. Neutral gender is useful for gender-neutral objects, but can lead to abuses (for instance, refering to your political enemies as "it" instead of "s/he" to dehumanize them).

    My point is, there's no such thing as a perfect language. It's impossible. Your universal language will be imperfect, and will lock us in an imperfect state by banning all other languages.
    Language is also a window into a people's culture and history. A people's language isn't a static, randomly-assigned thing. It's a consequence of their cultural evolution as a society. By eliminating it, you're eliminating part of their culture.

    i don't think all aspects of a culture are intrinsically valuable, as i noted in a previous post.

    It seems to me that, the only reason you find language a non-valuable part of culture is that it's hard to learn. If that's the case, you're wrong. If not, you're making a lousy job explaining yourself.
    i'm not suggesting that language is the only contentious issue, but it certainly doesn't help. look at africa. effective communication is vital for people who want to get along.
    If humans really wanted to get along, I doubt language would be an obstacle. Bilingual people aren't hard to find.

    Richy on
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Richy wrote:
    One language would be easier but encourages cultural stagnation over time

    elaborate.
    Language is part of culture. Standardizing it would be like saying "all theatre plays have to be exactly 60 minutes long, use a cast of 4 main characters and 6 secondary characters, this is the musical score, the decor is built from pieces found in that warehouse only. Aside from that, go nuts!" Sure, it's still possible to make new original plays, but they'll be pretty limited.

    i disagree. language simply is a means to convey meaning and intentions. to communicate. some languages may be more effective than others, but none are unique in the notions they can express, because the reality that words describe exists outside of language.
    nothing* wrong with adding terminology to an existing language.

    What about genders? Some languages have two, some have dozens. Some languages have a neutral gender, some don't. There are advantages and inconvenients to all these - obviously more genders makes your language more detailed and expressive, while less makes it simpler and easier to learn. Neutral gender is useful for gender-neutral objects, but can lead to abuses (for instance, refering to your political enemies as "it" instead of "s/he" to dehumanize them).

    i fail to see your point. we can express different feelings towards people and objects in any language. if we wish to note that a person or object is effeminate, its not so hard to say. it might not be as florid as you're accustomed to, depending on the language in question, but ideas can be, again, conveyed in virtually any language. if a language lacks words, add some more or combine existing words. languages evolve to reflect the reality they describe.
    My point is, there's no such thing as a perfect language. It's impossible. Your universal language will be imperfect, and will lock us in an imperfect state by banning all other languages.

    i'm not looking for a perfect language. i'm looking for a single language that serves the purpose of conveying as many ideas as possible. a variety of languages don't lend themselves to "perfection" any more than a single language does.
    i don't think all aspects of a culture are intrinsically valuable, as i noted in a previous post.

    It seems to me that, the only reason you find language a non-valuable part of culture is that it's hard to learn. If that's the case, you're wrong. If not, you're making a lousy job explaining yourself.

    no, that would be a reason that i find multiple languages to be undesirable. i find them non-valuable because meaning and intention and such exists outside of language. we just have to have the words to describe it.
    i'm not suggesting that language is the only contentious issue, but it certainly doesn't help. look at africa. effective communication is vital for people who want to get along.
    If humans really wanted to get along, I doubt language would be an obstacle. Bilingual people aren't hard to find.

    um, to the best of my knowledge, there's far more than two languages in the world. communicating effectively with a person from both china and the sudan would likely consume a fair amount of my life simply in preparation. if i throw a russian or argentinian in to the mix, that's a significantly longer chunk of my life.

    Loren Michael on
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  • DeathmongerDeathmonger Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bukkake everyday!

    Deathmonger on
  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    My ideal world:

    Small city-states, independent in internal affairs, ruled by a confederation.

    Many languages, but one Common language that everyone learns at a young age so communication is not an issue.

    No religion.

    Much less income and resource-distribution inequality than in our current world, but individuals still have a chance to work hard and set themselves apart from the rest (but not at the expense of others).

    Free, high-quality healthcare and education.

    And finally, men are outnumbered by women on a scale of one to fifty. :winky:

    ege02 on
  • ShurakaiShurakai Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    If I had the power.. I would:

    1. Take control over the worlds oil reserves.

    This resource becomes the property of the people of earth, not multinational cooperations ,dictators, or specific countries. Regulate the price, but more importantly, dictate where and when this resource can be used. Oil becomes cheap for construction, food production (farming),and mass transport,but heavily taxed for personal use in motor vehicles.

    2. Encourage renewable energy

    Subsidize all forms of personal renewable energy technology with the money received taxing oil. Cars, Solar Panels, you name it, is much cheaper. People buy it all up, and companies produce more and more and put more funds into research of more efficient technologies. Once production is widespread and cheap for companies, slowly lessen subsidies as the price plummets. (this wouldn't work if people suddenly stopped using fossil fuels because it costs more, which as shown in the past few years doesn't happen that easily. People will bleed money for gasoline until they are forced to choose the cheaper alternative. Cruel, but necessary).


    I would certainly do more to the world, but it would take me ages to type out.

    Shurakai on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Honestly, I'd be happy if people just stopped wasting energy on harming each other.

    Malice is soooo much work.

    Incenjucar on
  • Zephyr_FateZephyr_Fate Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I like Loren's idea very much, but I'm of the type to still encourage religion, but with a different basis in mind than what is currently going on now.

    Zephyr_Fate on
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Honestly, people don't know what they want. They think they do, but will, I imagine, get bored if they get whatever they want. So, I'd side with Adams, in thinking the creation of the universe was a really bad move, and painlessly cause existance to cease.

    silence1186 on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Honestly, people don't know what they want. They think they do, but will, I imagine, get bored if they get whatever they want. So, I'd side with Adams, in thinking the creation of the universe was a really bad move, and painlessly cause existance to cease.

    Well, to be fair, that's mostly because what we want is based on a contrast with what we're suffering at the moment.

    Incenjucar on
  • DeepQantasDeepQantas Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    The thing I most like to change about this world is me.

    I wonder if that's a bad thing... :P

    I wonder if wondering about that is a bad thing... :|

    [spoiler:30abf3b164]GODDAMN YOU FREUD! I guess! And... some other psychologiffic dudes, you![/spoiler:30abf3b164]

    DeepQantas on
    m~
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