Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
^ This is the lovely logitech G5. Same thing I have, it has spoiled me for other gaming mice. Playing TF2 and switching from medium sensitivity when playing a medic to low sensitivity when sniping in one simple action is amazing.
I've had my MX518 since 2005. Most reliable thing ever.
Picked up one of those new fancy blue G5s at around christmas time- the left click copper spring thing got f'd up two or three months into having it, causing me to double click every time I wanted to single click. Wasn't patient enough to try and send it back in. Basically ragequit my mouse, threw it away (I voided the warranty. don't ask.), and went back to my good 'ole 518. Call that bad luck, though. Still a great, great mouse that is at a pretty decent price.
To be honest, when concerning mice with gaming, it's really just a matter of what you're really, really used to. DPI basically doesn't mean shit except "this mouse is X fast and you can change in X different ways", which I've typically been against because switching your sensitivity on-the-fly will make you cold in three different ways, causing you to have to warm up for three different settings instead of just one ubiquitous setting. But that's just me. Mainly what you're after with a "gaming" mouse is their insane durability. My 518 is approaching its fourth year of service to me with loads and loads of dead skin and dirt and other things to gum up the works, and it still works beautifully (Note: I definitely clean the thing, still, but you know what I mean...). Not to mention the feet on the mice are still intact and as graceful as ever. That's what you're after, and that's typically where other generic mass distributed mice completely fail- they typically can't handle the wear and tear for a long time. Their feet erode on your desk. Cord gets crapped out. Anything can happen.
Beware of the common misconception that buying a supercoolawesome gaming mouse is going to make you super instantly amazingly better at all of your games, because then you're just going to get frustrated. It's all about comfortability and the adjustment period.
I use my MX518 at 400 dpi ha. The only FPS I play competitively is CS 1.6 and low sensitivity is great. I really can't imagine precision aiming with 4000 DPI. It's just way too fast. I've tried it many times for fun and it's just dumb. There's really no reason to play with a sensitivity that high. Maybe it's good for other games though.
I use my MX518 at 400 dpi ha. The only FPS I play competitively is CS 1.6 and low sensitivity is great. I really can't imagine precision aiming with 4000 DPI. It's just way too fast. I've tried it many times for fun and it's just dumb. There's really no reason to play with a sensitivity that high. Maybe it's good for other games though.
It's amazing. If you like high sensitivity, it's the key for precision. A lot of mice will use this strange sort of logarithmic distance-traveled when you move the mouse fast, but my lachesis does not, which I think allows for a LOT more accuracy. Also, on-the-fly adjustment is sweet, and I have a button that I use to switch between sniping mode and regular play for FPS.
I use my MX518 at 400 dpi ha. The only FPS I play competitively is CS 1.6 and low sensitivity is great. I really can't imagine precision aiming with 4000 DPI. It's just way too fast. I've tried it many times for fun and it's just dumb. There's really no reason to play with a sensitivity that high. Maybe it's good for other games though.
It's amazing. If you like high sensitivity, it's the key for precision. A lot of mice will use this strange sort of logarithmic distance-traveled when you move the mouse fast, but my lachesis does not, which I think allows for a LOT more accuracy. Also, on-the-fly adjustment is sweet, and I have a button that I use to switch between sniping mode and regular play for FPS.
That moving mouse faster thing, is called mouse acceleration and is enabled by default in windows. You can disable it quite easily. It is the bane of gaming in my opinion, it's always the very first thing I disable.
In windows on mouse properties, pointer options tab deselect "Enable pointer precision". (Oxymoron if ever there was)
In the Logitech mouse setpoint software there is also a similar option.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Yep, I have mouse acceleration disabled. I still don't see the point in higher sensitivity. How could it possibly help accuracy? If anything, it seems like it would be much harder.
Yep, I have mouse acceleration disabled. I still don't see the point in higher sensitivity. How could it possibly help accuracy? If anything, it seems like it would be much harder.
I move my hand less and have less margin for error due to lazy movement. Seriously.
How does it change the margin for error? It seems like it wouldn't. I mean, you have to be on the same pixel for a headshot whether your at 400 dpi or 4000 dpi. Having a higher sensitivity just makes it harder to hit that spot.
Huh? After each shot with a sniping gun you're going to have reload time anyways. In CS 1.6 I use 400dpi and sensitivity of 2.2 and I've never thought "man, I wish my mouse would move faster." I mean, you can do a 360 before you have time to take another shot. Even with a faster gun like the scout reload time is always the delay. Never mouse speed.
I don't want to derail the thread but I've never understood the point of XXXX DPI. If you prefer it and can aim with it then that's cool... I've just always seen it as a preference thing and not a performance booster.
edit: keep in mind the only FPS I play competitively (leagues, etc) is CS 1.6 so that's what I base my thoughts on.
Like what? I don't get the higher DPI = higherprecision.
edit: After a little googling it seems like people think of DPI as the amount of pixels the mouse can access and that doesn't make sense. DPI really only changes speed from what I've read.
The increased DPI will increase the speed, and then if you turn down the sensitivity until the speed matches a lower DPI mouse, you get improved precision instead.
Are you prepared to be SO ENERGETIC (with a new mouse)?
I recently bought the step up from the Sidewinder x5, the x8.
It JUST came out (it was on backorder for a while from where I ordered it so it pretty much was just released about 3 weeks ago or so).
This is the best mouse I've ever owned.
- It has a good number of programable buttons, including a macro button, and one of the nicest feeling mouse wheels I've used.
- It uses the new bluetrack laser, which is basically just a cool way of saying it uses a blue laser instead of a red one for tracking.
- It goes up to 4000 dpi with 3 buttons for on the fly dpi switching (between 4000, 1000, 400). There's a seperate soft button for each so you don't need to toggle or cycle through dpi settings.
- It has replaceable mouse feet so you can choose between slidier or stickier feet.
- Has great weight.
- And my favorite feature about the mouse is that it's wireless-rechargable. What really makes it stand out though, is unlike most rechargable wireless mice, it doesn't require a mount or a stand in order to recharge. Instead, there's a usb wire that attaches to the front of the mouse using magnets. So you can continue playing while it recharges!
The only downside is the pricetag which goes at around $100. I got it for $85 + shipping through ncix.com though.
Why? That doesn't make any sense. Raising the physical sensitivity and then lowering it via software gives improved precision? How does DPI change precision at all? That's my real question.
Why? That doesn't make any sense. Raising the physical sensitivity and then lowering it via software gives improved precision? How does DPI change precision at all? That's my real question.
It's easier to show than to tell in this case. But some low precision mice will have your cursor jump and skip on screen pixels. Sure you can say DPI switching is a fancy way of saying it speeds up and slows down your mouse, but there's a bit more to it than that..
This can be great for first person shooter games, for example, where lowering your DPI when you want to aim is a good idea because it means you don't have to move your mouse by fractions of millimeters in order to aim. Instead, by lowering the DPI you're switching it so that you can make greater motions with your hand, without that translating into big motions on the screen.
For mice that don't have DPI on the fly switching having a high dpi is still an advantage because you can compensate for your mouse moving too fast by going into your game and/or system options to slow down sensitivity so superficially it might seem that the cursor is going at the same speed for a high vs low dpi mouse (if you set it up that way) but the high dpi mouse is covering more pixels.
Try and think of it this way, imagine your screen is 1000 pixels across. Now imagine a very low dpi mouse can get from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen by traversing only 100 pixels. That means that your cursor is 'stopping' on only every 10 pixels. So that's low precision, what if there's something you want to click between the 10th and 20th pixel? Conversely, a high dpi mouse might be able to stop on every one of those 1000 pixels across the screen, even though it gets from left to right at the same speed as the low dpi one (again, if you choose to set it up that way). Obviously it's not this simple but it's close.
This is the important part: The way games and mice compensate for that pixel skipping is by slowing down the mouse. So when you lower your DPI on the fly in games for example, your cursor is still stopping at every pixel, it's just moving across them slower instead of skipping them, that's why it appears as though all on the fly dpi switching is doing is slowing and speeding up mouse speed. In reality the mouse cursor isn't speeding up or slowing down, it's just covering more or less screen with the same motion of your hand.
Why? That doesn't make any sense. Raising the physical sensitivity and then lowering it via software gives improved precision? How does DPI change precision at all? That's my real question.
Try and think of it this way, imagine your screen is 1000 pixels across. Now imagine a very low dpi mouse can get from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen by traversing only 100 pixels. That means that your cursor is 'stopping' on only every 10 pixels. So that's low precision, what if there's something you want to click between the 10th and 20th pixel? Conversely, a high dpi mouse might be able to stop on every one of those 1000 pixels across the screen, even though it gets from left to right at the same speed as the low dpi one (again, if you choose to set it up that way). Obviously it's not this simple but it's close.
This doesn't make sense. A low dpi mouse can't traverse the screen in 100 pixels (I don't even know what that's supposed to mean but I'm playing off your example). That's the entire point of lower dpi. Lower DPI doesn't skip pixels. It just traverses them at a slower pace.
What is the possible problem and solution if your mouse pointer (or in the main problem case, gunsight) tends to stutter and stick when you're moving your mouse in very small movements trying to adjust a fine aim?
When playing FPS I aim at someone, then try to adjust slightly for a headshot and half the time the mouse stutters or becomes sloppy or doesn't move at all, meanwhile larger movements of the mouse are smooth and fine. Is it that mouse acceleration thing? DPI problem? I don't know these things, but its a constant source of FPS frustration.
Sorry to drag things slightly off-topic, just didn't feel it deserved its own thread. For the record my mouse is a ho-hum MS Wireles Laser Mouse 5000.
GalagaGalaxian on
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
It just seems to make it easier for me. It's tough to explain, but one of my biggest problems in the past was physically having to lift and re-center my entire mouse because of the DPI being low. I don't have to do that with my higher DPI mouse, and I can rest my wrist in a much more comfortable way. That ties into not being lazy when I'm moving my mouse, because my wrist isn't getting tired or sore from having to reposition all the time. It also seems to let me respond quicker to stuff, as I can move my hand far less to accomplish the same thing. As I'm sure you know, shaving off a few milliseconds here and there wins games. I honestly feel that for games with a lot of rapid mouse movement, such as league-play DotA, my high DPI mouse has made me better than I was before.
Of course, you could just say that it's a preference and I've grown accustomed to it. :P
Why? That doesn't make any sense. Raising the physical sensitivity and then lowering it via software gives improved precision? How does DPI change precision at all? That's my real question.
Taking more accurate measurements and then rounding off the result is more accurate. Thats just the way the world works.
It gets more worse the more measurements you add together. Mice take measurements every fraction of a second and the software adds them to a running total. Which is a shit load of measurements.
The bare wood of my desk to be honest. Its not laminated or lacquered or anything, so I didn't think there would be issues with the laser reflecting or defusing or whatever.
GalagaGalaxian on
Remember the compliments you receive, forget the insults; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
The bare wood of my desk to be honest. Its not laminated or lacquered or anything, so I didn't think there would be issues with the laser reflecting or defusing or whatever.
The difference between a mousepad and any other surface is night and day. I don't necessarily use my mousepad for general computing all the time, but for gaming I'm mousing on my mousepad guaranteed.
So, even though I can hit any pixel on my monitor with 400dpi, 4000 dpi is still more accurate? *edited... I misunderstood* I see what you're saying... mathematically, a more accurate measurement would provide a more accurate result. But with a mouse, how is it more accurate? It's impossible for me to be any more accurate since I can already pinpoint any pixel on my monitor with 400 DPI.
No matter how you say it, DPI = sensitivity. At 4000 DPI I move my mouse X distance to reach X pixel and at 400 DPI I move my mouse Y distance to reach X pixel.
The bare wood of my desk to be honest. Its not laminated or lacquered or anything, so I didn't think there would be issues with the laser reflecting or defusing or whatever.
The difference between a mousepad and any other surface is night and day. I don't necessarily use my mousepad for general computing all the time, but for gaming I'm mousing on my mousepad guaranteed.
Yeah that's probably the issue. I use low sensitivity so I use big mousepads and you can get one for under $15. I use supermats since they're the cheapest ($10 or something) but you can get a razer one for $15 I think.
So, even though I can hit any pixel on my monitor with 400dpi, 4000 dpi is still more accurate? And the number of calculations made doesn't change with the DPI. I see what you're saying... mathematically, a more accurate measurement would provide a more accurate result. But with a mouse, how is it more accurate? It's impossible for me to be any more accurate since I can already pinpoint any pixel on my monitor with 400 DPI.
No matter how you say it, DPI = sensitivity. At 4000 DPI I move my mouse X distance to reach X pixel and at 400 DPI I move my mouse Y distance to reach X pixel.
A mouse of a lower DPI will lose accuracy relative to where you started faster over time. If you move your mouse up exactly 100mm and then back to exactly where you started on the mousepad, its more likely to be a pixel or so out on screen. Its not a huge problem because you can still hit any pixel by watching the cursor and compensating by moving the mouse a bit further down or up, but you wouldn't be able to get exactly the right spot by feel alone.
What? You're saying if I move my mouse 100mm up and then 100 mm down I won't be at the same spot? I can't say I buy that. And exactly why do you say it keeps a running total of calculations, which would slowly distort accuracy? Maybe you're referring to mouse acceleration aka pointer precision or whatever? I'm not sure.
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
Are you prepared to be SO ENERGETIC (with a new mouse)?
I recently bought the step up from the Sidewinder x5, the x8.
It JUST came out (it was on backorder for a while from where I ordered it so it pretty much was just released about 3 weeks ago or so).
This is the best mouse I've ever owned.
- It has a good number of programable buttons, including a macro button, and one of the nicest feeling mouse wheels I've used.
- It uses the new bluetrack laser, which is basically just a cool way of saying it uses a blue laser instead of a red one for tracking.
- It goes up to 4000 dpi with 3 buttons for on the fly dpi switching (between 4000, 1000, 400). There's a seperate soft button for each so you don't need to toggle or cycle through dpi settings.
- It has replaceable mouse feet so you can choose between slidier or stickier feet.
- Has great weight.
- And my favorite feature about the mouse is that it's wireless-rechargable. What really makes it stand out though, is unlike most rechargable wireless mice, it doesn't require a mount or a stand in order to recharge. Instead, there's a usb wire that attaches to the front of the mouse using magnets. So you can continue playing while it recharges!
The only downside is the pricetag which goes at around $100. I got it for $85 + shipping through ncix.com though.
I highly recommend this mouse.
Well fuck, I want that one now. Oh well, mine does a very good job and I'm happy with it so far. I guess the next one I pick up will be the x8.
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
A low DPI mouse on high sensitivity will not be able to travel single pixels, and will indeed skip pixels. A high DPI mouse has the same "effective sensitivity" (i.e. it travels the same percentage of the screen/inch) but will be able to traverse every single pixel.
edit: My point being, the higher the monitor resolution and the less you want to have to move your mouse, the greater your DPI need.
edit 2: The amount of sensitivity that you feel is basically proportional to your mouse DPI multiplied by mouse sensitivity set in your OS. More DPI means you can move your mouse faster on a lower sensitivity setting. The limitations of a low DPI mouse become extremely apparent at high sensitivies.
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
A low DPI mouse on high sensitivity will not be able to travel single pixels, and will indeed skip pixels. A high DPI mouse has the same "effective sensitivity" (i.e. it travels the same percentage of the screen/inch) but will be able to traverse every single pixel.
Hmm.... low DPI and high sens. I've never tried that so I don't know... maybe that's true. Low DPI and low sensitivity is fine though.
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
A low DPI mouse on high sensitivity will not be able to travel single pixels, and will indeed skip pixels. A high DPI mouse has the same "effective sensitivity" (i.e. it travels the same percentage of the screen/inch) but will be able to traverse every single pixel.
Hmm.... low DPI and high sens. I've never tried that so I don't know... maybe that's true. Low DPI and low sensitivity is fine though.
It might be fine now, and you could probably find an area where it would always be fine, but as monitors get bigger and become higher resolution, your low dpi low sensitivity set up will have your cursor covering less ground over the same relative hand movement. The only way you'll be able to compensate it is by increasing sensitivity, which, with a lower DPI mouse, will cause you to skip pixels with motion and you'll end up having lowered precision. A high DPI mouse in a low res/small monitor environment is probably a waste, but it depends on the person I guess.
If you really want to test it out for yourself, get two mice, one at 4000 dpi and one at 100 dpi and adjust the mouse sensitivity so they're both moving across the screen at as close to the same speed as you can get it. You'll find the high dpi mouse with have far more pinpoint accuracy than the low dpi mouse.
Are you prepared to be SO ENERGETIC (with a new mouse)?
I recently bought the step up from the Sidewinder x5, the x8.
It JUST came out (it was on backorder for a while from where I ordered it so it pretty much was just released about 3 weeks ago or so).
This is the best mouse I've ever owned.
- It has a good number of programable buttons, including a macro button, and one of the nicest feeling mouse wheels I've used.
- It uses the new bluetrack laser, which is basically just a cool way of saying it uses a blue laser instead of a red one for tracking.
- It goes up to 4000 dpi with 3 buttons for on the fly dpi switching (between 4000, 1000, 400). There's a seperate soft button for each so you don't need to toggle or cycle through dpi settings.
- It has replaceable mouse feet so you can choose between slidier or stickier feet.
- Has great weight.
- And my favorite feature about the mouse is that it's wireless-rechargable. What really makes it stand out though, is unlike most rechargable wireless mice, it doesn't require a mount or a stand in order to recharge. Instead, there's a usb wire that attaches to the front of the mouse using magnets. So you can continue playing while it recharges!
The only downside is the pricetag which goes at around $100. I got it for $85 + shipping through ncix.com though.
I highly recommend this mouse.
Well fuck, I want that one now. Oh well, mine does a very good job and I'm happy with it so far. I guess the next one I pick up will be the x8.
I'm not exaggerating when I say it's the best mouse I've ever owned. I highly recommend it. Another nice bonus about it is the NiMH battery is standard AA size, so if it ever dies or explodes or for whatever reason you need to replace it, it's a bit easier to hunt down.
I never understood these weird looking mice. "Yeah lets take this piece, and we will glue tehse two random shapes together, and put six buttons near the thumb and 3 by the wheel and it has a ninja star charger. Yeah...."
It keeps a running total of calculations because the mouse doesn't know where it is. All it knows is the speed it is moving at any time. So the software picks an arbitrary starting position on bootup and then continually adds the speed the mouse is moving to this.
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Lets say, for the sake of arguement, that the sensors on both mice can see the same sized length under the mouse. For the 4000 dpi mouse, this effectively means that the mouse can detect movement over 1/4000 of the distance, while the 400 dpi mouse can see only 1/400th of the area. What this translates to is that it takes a smaller movement of the high DPI mouse to register the motion. The problem with low DPI mice is at high sensitivity. Lets say you're screen has a width of 1680 pixels, and you want to traverse that in 4 inches. The 400 dpi mouse can only sense 1600 "dots" over that 4 inch range, so you're going to be skipping pixels, but the 4000 dpi mouse can sense of 16,000 dots, so you'll still be fine.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
A low DPI mouse on high sensitivity will not be able to travel single pixels, and will indeed skip pixels. A high DPI mouse has the same "effective sensitivity" (i.e. it travels the same percentage of the screen/inch) but will be able to traverse every single pixel.
Hmm.... low DPI and high sens. I've never tried that so I don't know... maybe that's true. Low DPI and low sensitivity is fine though.
It might be fine now, and you could probably find an area where it would always be fine, but as monitors get bigger and become higher resolution, your low dpi low sensitivity set up will have your cursor covering less ground over the same relative hand movement. The only way you'll be able to compensate it is by increasing sensitivity, which, with a lower DPI mouse, will cause you to skip pixels with motion and you'll end up having lowered precision. A high DPI mouse in a low res/small monitor environment is probably a waste, but it depends on the person I guess.
If you really want to test it out for yourself, get two mice, one at 4000 dpi and one at 100 dpi and adjust the mouse sensitivity so they're both moving across the screen at as close to the same speed as you can get it. You'll find the high dpi mouse with have far more pinpoint accuracy than the low dpi mouse.
Well, I have the newest MX518 so and I run at 400 DPI on a 1920x1200 monitor. No problems. At work I use two monitors, one is 1920x1200 and one is 1280x1024 and with a standard dell mouse (800 dpi probably) I can go from one edge of the screen to the opposite edge of the second screen without using my entire mousepad (6 inches wide).
So, I think this is getting exaggerated a bit. Oh, and I notice not difference accuracy with my mouse at 400 DPI and 2000 DPI.
Posts
Steam/PSN/XBL/Minecraft / LoL / - Benevicious | WoW - Duckwood - Rajhek
Picked up one of those new fancy blue G5s at around christmas time- the left click copper spring thing got f'd up two or three months into having it, causing me to double click every time I wanted to single click. Wasn't patient enough to try and send it back in. Basically ragequit my mouse, threw it away (I voided the warranty. don't ask.), and went back to my good 'ole 518. Call that bad luck, though. Still a great, great mouse that is at a pretty decent price.
To be honest, when concerning mice with gaming, it's really just a matter of what you're really, really used to. DPI basically doesn't mean shit except "this mouse is X fast and you can change in X different ways", which I've typically been against because switching your sensitivity on-the-fly will make you cold in three different ways, causing you to have to warm up for three different settings instead of just one ubiquitous setting. But that's just me. Mainly what you're after with a "gaming" mouse is their insane durability. My 518 is approaching its fourth year of service to me with loads and loads of dead skin and dirt and other things to gum up the works, and it still works beautifully (Note: I definitely clean the thing, still, but you know what I mean...). Not to mention the feet on the mice are still intact and as graceful as ever. That's what you're after, and that's typically where other generic mass distributed mice completely fail- they typically can't handle the wear and tear for a long time. Their feet erode on your desk. Cord gets crapped out. Anything can happen.
Beware of the common misconception that buying a supercoolawesome gaming mouse is going to make you super instantly amazingly better at all of your games, because then you're just going to get frustrated. It's all about comfortability and the adjustment period.
Hope that helps.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
It's amazing. If you like high sensitivity, it's the key for precision. A lot of mice will use this strange sort of logarithmic distance-traveled when you move the mouse fast, but my lachesis does not, which I think allows for a LOT more accuracy. Also, on-the-fly adjustment is sweet, and I have a button that I use to switch between sniping mode and regular play for FPS.
That moving mouse faster thing, is called mouse acceleration and is enabled by default in windows. You can disable it quite easily. It is the bane of gaming in my opinion, it's always the very first thing I disable.
In windows on mouse properties, pointer options tab deselect "Enable pointer precision". (Oxymoron if ever there was)
In the Logitech mouse setpoint software there is also a similar option.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
I move my hand less and have less margin for error due to lazy movement. Seriously.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
So the theory goes anway.
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
I don't want to derail the thread but I've never understood the point of XXXX DPI. If you prefer it and can aim with it then that's cool... I've just always seen it as a preference thing and not a performance booster.
edit: keep in mind the only FPS I play competitively (leagues, etc) is CS 1.6 so that's what I base my thoughts on.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
If the president had any real power, he'd be able to live wherever the fuck he wanted.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
edit: After a little googling it seems like people think of DPI as the amount of pixels the mouse can access and that doesn't make sense. DPI really only changes speed from what I've read.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
I recently bought the step up from the Sidewinder x5, the x8.
It JUST came out (it was on backorder for a while from where I ordered it so it pretty much was just released about 3 weeks ago or so).
This is the best mouse I've ever owned.
- It has a good number of programable buttons, including a macro button, and one of the nicest feeling mouse wheels I've used.
- It uses the new bluetrack laser, which is basically just a cool way of saying it uses a blue laser instead of a red one for tracking.
- It goes up to 4000 dpi with 3 buttons for on the fly dpi switching (between 4000, 1000, 400). There's a seperate soft button for each so you don't need to toggle or cycle through dpi settings.
- It has replaceable mouse feet so you can choose between slidier or stickier feet.
- Has great weight.
- And my favorite feature about the mouse is that it's wireless-rechargable. What really makes it stand out though, is unlike most rechargable wireless mice, it doesn't require a mount or a stand in order to recharge. Instead, there's a usb wire that attaches to the front of the mouse using magnets. So you can continue playing while it recharges!
The only downside is the pricetag which goes at around $100. I got it for $85 + shipping through ncix.com though.
I highly recommend this mouse.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
It's easier to show than to tell in this case. But some low precision mice will have your cursor jump and skip on screen pixels. Sure you can say DPI switching is a fancy way of saying it speeds up and slows down your mouse, but there's a bit more to it than that..
This can be great for first person shooter games, for example, where lowering your DPI when you want to aim is a good idea because it means you don't have to move your mouse by fractions of millimeters in order to aim. Instead, by lowering the DPI you're switching it so that you can make greater motions with your hand, without that translating into big motions on the screen.
For mice that don't have DPI on the fly switching having a high dpi is still an advantage because you can compensate for your mouse moving too fast by going into your game and/or system options to slow down sensitivity so superficially it might seem that the cursor is going at the same speed for a high vs low dpi mouse (if you set it up that way) but the high dpi mouse is covering more pixels.
Try and think of it this way, imagine your screen is 1000 pixels across. Now imagine a very low dpi mouse can get from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen by traversing only 100 pixels. That means that your cursor is 'stopping' on only every 10 pixels. So that's low precision, what if there's something you want to click between the 10th and 20th pixel? Conversely, a high dpi mouse might be able to stop on every one of those 1000 pixels across the screen, even though it gets from left to right at the same speed as the low dpi one (again, if you choose to set it up that way). Obviously it's not this simple but it's close.
This is the important part: The way games and mice compensate for that pixel skipping is by slowing down the mouse. So when you lower your DPI on the fly in games for example, your cursor is still stopping at every pixel, it's just moving across them slower instead of skipping them, that's why it appears as though all on the fly dpi switching is doing is slowing and speeding up mouse speed. In reality the mouse cursor isn't speeding up or slowing down, it's just covering more or less screen with the same motion of your hand.
This doesn't make sense. A low dpi mouse can't traverse the screen in 100 pixels (I don't even know what that's supposed to mean but I'm playing off your example). That's the entire point of lower dpi. Lower DPI doesn't skip pixels. It just traverses them at a slower pace.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
What is the possible problem and solution if your mouse pointer (or in the main problem case, gunsight) tends to stutter and stick when you're moving your mouse in very small movements trying to adjust a fine aim?
When playing FPS I aim at someone, then try to adjust slightly for a headshot and half the time the mouse stutters or becomes sloppy or doesn't move at all, meanwhile larger movements of the mouse are smooth and fine. Is it that mouse acceleration thing? DPI problem? I don't know these things, but its a constant source of FPS frustration.
Sorry to drag things slightly off-topic, just didn't feel it deserved its own thread. For the record my mouse is a ho-hum MS Wireles Laser Mouse 5000.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
It just seems to make it easier for me. It's tough to explain, but one of my biggest problems in the past was physically having to lift and re-center my entire mouse because of the DPI being low. I don't have to do that with my higher DPI mouse, and I can rest my wrist in a much more comfortable way. That ties into not being lazy when I'm moving my mouse, because my wrist isn't getting tired or sore from having to reposition all the time. It also seems to let me respond quicker to stuff, as I can move my hand far less to accomplish the same thing. As I'm sure you know, shaving off a few milliseconds here and there wins games. I honestly feel that for games with a lot of rapid mouse movement, such as league-play DotA, my high DPI mouse has made me better than I was before.
Of course, you could just say that it's a preference and I've grown accustomed to it. :P
Taking more accurate measurements and then rounding off the result is more accurate. Thats just the way the world works.
It gets more worse the more measurements you add together. Mice take measurements every fraction of a second and the software adds them to a running total. Which is a shit load of measurements.
The bare wood of my desk to be honest. Its not laminated or lacquered or anything, so I didn't think there would be issues with the laser reflecting or defusing or whatever.
The difference between a mousepad and any other surface is night and day. I don't necessarily use my mousepad for general computing all the time, but for gaming I'm mousing on my mousepad guaranteed.
No matter how you say it, DPI = sensitivity. At 4000 DPI I move my mouse X distance to reach X pixel and at 400 DPI I move my mouse Y distance to reach X pixel.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
Yeah that's probably the issue. I use low sensitivity so I use big mousepads and you can get one for under $15. I use supermats since they're the cheapest ($10 or something) but you can get a razer one for $15 I think.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
A mouse of a lower DPI will lose accuracy relative to where you started faster over time. If you move your mouse up exactly 100mm and then back to exactly where you started on the mousepad, its more likely to be a pixel or so out on screen. Its not a huge problem because you can still hit any pixel by watching the cursor and compensating by moving the mouse a bit further down or up, but you wouldn't be able to get exactly the right spot by feel alone.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
The mouse goes "4 dots left please!"
And the computer goes "ok, the cursor is at the 104th pixel in from the left. If the sensitivity is 1 dot per pixel, the cursor needs to be moved to the 100th pixel in."
And then the process repeats.
Its a very simplified argument, but does that make sense?
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
Well fuck, I want that one now.
So, why would that affect accuracy?
No, that doesn't make sense. Either the mouse can move 1680 pixels with 4 inches of phsyical movement or it can't. It's not going to skip pixels. It only sees 1600 dots with 4 inches of movement so it's only going to travel 1600 dots. It's not going to skip across the screen.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
A low DPI mouse on high sensitivity will not be able to travel single pixels, and will indeed skip pixels. A high DPI mouse has the same "effective sensitivity" (i.e. it travels the same percentage of the screen/inch) but will be able to traverse every single pixel.
edit: My point being, the higher the monitor resolution and the less you want to have to move your mouse, the greater your DPI need.
edit 2: The amount of sensitivity that you feel is basically proportional to your mouse DPI multiplied by mouse sensitivity set in your OS. More DPI means you can move your mouse faster on a lower sensitivity setting. The limitations of a low DPI mouse become extremely apparent at high sensitivies.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
Hmm.... low DPI and high sens. I've never tried that so I don't know... maybe that's true. Low DPI and low sensitivity is fine though.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
It might be fine now, and you could probably find an area where it would always be fine, but as monitors get bigger and become higher resolution, your low dpi low sensitivity set up will have your cursor covering less ground over the same relative hand movement. The only way you'll be able to compensate it is by increasing sensitivity, which, with a lower DPI mouse, will cause you to skip pixels with motion and you'll end up having lowered precision. A high DPI mouse in a low res/small monitor environment is probably a waste, but it depends on the person I guess.
If you really want to test it out for yourself, get two mice, one at 4000 dpi and one at 100 dpi and adjust the mouse sensitivity so they're both moving across the screen at as close to the same speed as you can get it. You'll find the high dpi mouse with have far more pinpoint accuracy than the low dpi mouse.
I'm not exaggerating when I say it's the best mouse I've ever owned. I highly recommend it. Another nice bonus about it is the NiMH battery is standard AA size, so if it ever dies or explodes or for whatever reason you need to replace it, it's a bit easier to hunt down.
Well, I have the newest MX518 so and I run at 400 DPI on a 1920x1200 monitor. No problems. At work I use two monitors, one is 1920x1200 and one is 1280x1024 and with a standard dell mouse (800 dpi probably) I can go from one edge of the screen to the opposite edge of the second screen without using my entire mousepad (6 inches wide).
So, I think this is getting exaggerated a bit. Oh, and I notice not difference accuracy with my mouse at 400 DPI and 2000 DPI.
SSBB: 5370-1223-4258
But yes, if you're a fan of low sensitivity DPI is not a big issue.
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425