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Gay Marriage: In striking it down it shall become more powerful than you can imagine

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Posts

  • KevinNashKevinNash Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Speaker wrote:
    How can you tell if someone is conservative by looking at them?
    Tweed.

    I thought that was the indicator of a liberal elite actually, usually the kind that work on a university campus.

    KevinNash on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    KevinNash wrote: »
    Speaker wrote:
    How can you tell if someone is conservative by looking at them?
    Tweed.

    I thought that was the indicator of a liberal elite actually, usually the kind that work on a university campus.

    Naw, it's the conservative professors who have tweed. The liberals have nylon.

    Captain Carrot on
  • ArgusArgus Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Zzulu wrote: »
    As I live in a country where same sex marriage is legal, can someone from The America tell me why people are having such a hard time with it?

    Gay people are icky. There's also some vague, ill-defined fear of "changing the definition of marriage" that no one can really articulate the effects of, but that just boils down to "gay people are icky" as well.

    EDIT: Note, for the easily confused, that I am saying the prevailing cause of gay marriage opposition is homophobia. I am not myself stating that I personally think gay people are icky. I'm sure some of them are.

    I know this was a few pages back, but damn if this thread didn't go places in 24 hours.

    There is a poll that was reported on by CNN which stated:
    Forty-nine percent of those questioned say they have a family member or close friend who is gay. That's up eight points from 1998 and up 17 points from 1992. Fifty-eight percent of those ages 18 to 34 say they have a family member or close friend who's gay. That drops to just one in three of people 65 or older.

    "People who say they have a gay friend or relative support same-sex marriage," Holland notes. "Most of those who say they don't know anyone who is gay oppose gay marriage."

    So basically, people oppose it when it doesn't affect anyone they know; when it affects someone they know, they suddenly decide their friends should have rights. :|

    Argus on
    pasigsizedu5.jpg
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    Astaereth wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    I don't know if it already came up here (actually I would be surprised if it didn't), but why don't we just let the churches use the word marriage (they seem to want it) and the state use the term civil union? Then churches can marry whomever they want (I know a lesbian couple who got married in an Episcopalian church as an example) and the state can civilly unionize whomever they want.

    "seem" being the operative word. I've never seen anybody (outside of Obs, who I think can be safely dismissed as an outlier) who actually cared about the word "marriage". Like most everything else on their side of the issue, it's just dogwhistle for "gays are icky."

    Additionally, religious people are, so far, really mad when people who aren't them have marriages that don't affect their own. How much greater a shit-storm do you think it would be if people tried to actually remove marriage from government? These people don't want less religion in government, they want more--they want prayer in schools, they want the 10 Commandments in courthouses, and they want government-approved marriage (but only on their terms). This is a "compromise" that neither religious people nor gays are really interested in; it only appeals to people on the internet who think they know exactly where to cut the Gordian knot.

    It appeals to me because I'm a spiteful bastard at heart. You don't want the gays to get married? Fine, they won't, but nobody else will either!

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    Obs on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?

    Medopine on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Hopefully we'll find a way to deprogram conservativism first.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    Obs on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    KevinNash wrote: »
    Speaker wrote:
    How can you tell if someone is conservative by looking at them?
    Tweed.

    I thought that was the indicator of a liberal elite actually, usually the kind that work on a university campus.

    Naw, it's the conservative professors who have tweed. The liberals have nylon.

    But, wait...I like tweed and am thinking of getting a tweed blazer when I have spare monies again.

    moniker on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    excellent, just confirming you are a terrible human being

    Medopine on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    excellent, just confirming you are a terrible human being

    Not terrible, just completely disconnected from reality.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2009
    KevinNash wrote: »
    Speaker wrote:
    How can you tell if someone is conservative by looking at them?
    Tweed.

    I thought that was the indicator of a liberal elite actually, usually the kind that work on a university campus.

    You also need a douchey bowtie.

    Which is redundant, I suppose.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    truth. I retract the above statement and agree with Feral from here on out.

    Medopine on
  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    If someone wants to fund that research and pass it through a peer reviewed journal, fine more power to them. They might learn something actually useful along the way.

    As for the implications, it doesn't and never should matter whether or not homosexuality is a choice. And it wont matter to anyone who actually thinks rationally either. I've mentioned it before, but the 'it's not their choice' thing is a huge red herring to me and I'd rather it disappear from the discourse altogether as it pollutes the heart of the matter.

    Tarranon on
    You could be anywhere
    On the black screen
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KevinNash wrote: »
    Speaker wrote:
    How can you tell if someone is conservative by looking at them?
    Tweed.

    I thought that was the indicator of a liberal elite actually, usually the kind that work on a university campus.

    You also need a douchey bowtie.

    Which is redundant, I suppose.

    What about Tucker?

    Tucker%20Carlson.jpg

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    :lol:

    moniker on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    excellent, just confirming you are a terrible human being

    Not terrible, just completely disconnected from reality.
    No, Obs is pretty terrible.

    Fencingsax on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Hey, if there were a way to cure people of homosexuality I'd totally support it.

    I'd totally support a way to cure people of heterosexuality, too.

    Maybe I could use my mind control powers.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    If you guys are done patting each other on the backs or whatever I have a serious question guys:


    What happens if we ever figure out a way to deprogram homosexuality through science?

    Is this going to be scientific research that conservatives support and liberals heartily oppose?

    what is the purpose of funding that type of research Obs? would you support it? I thought you didn't have a problem with gay people, just gay marriage?


    I would certainly support it.

    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    excellent, just confirming you are a terrible human being

    Not terrible, just completely disconnected from reality.
    No, Obs is pretty terrible.

    The sooner you guys stop talking about me and start talking with me, the sooner we improve the level of discourse on these forums.


    Tarranon wrote: »
    As for the implications, it doesn't and never should matter whether or not homosexuality is a choice. And it wont matter to anyone who actually thinks rationally either. I've mentioned it before, but the 'it's not their choice' thing is a huge red herring to me and I'd rather it disappear from the discourse all together as it pollutes the heart of the matter.

    There is absolutely no way it's a choice, unless a lot of gays are lying.

    Obs on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs, these forums have yet to see you do anything to raise the level of discourse within them.

    KalTorak on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    De..programming... homosexuality?

    You... You realise I am not a computer, right? Nor was I .. indoctrinated at some point? What about if we take all that money that would go towards, uh, debugging me, and spend it on, say, something that matters. Hell, spend it on sport if you want, people seem to like that a lot? (Weirdos.)

    desperaterobots on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    De..programming... homosexuality?

    You... You realise I am not a computer, right? Nor was I .. indoctrinated at some point? What about if we take all that money that would go towards, uh, debugging me, and spend it on, say, something that matters. Hell, spend it on sport if you want, people seem to like that a lot? (Weirdos.)

    I'd rather deprogram people who like sports.

    Kneebiters, the lot of them.

    KalTorak on
  • NerdgasmicNerdgasmic __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs, talking with you is almost always pointless. For one thing, you usually only respond to the single portions of posts that you feel are able to competently rebut.

    For another thing, when you realize you've not competently responded to something, you resort to whiny posts about how the D & D echo-chamber is oppressing you. Like this one that I am responding to.

    Nerdgasmic on
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    De..programming... homosexuality?

    You... You realise I am not a computer, right? Nor was I .. indoctrinated at some point? What about if we take all that money that would go towards, uh, debugging me, and spend it on, say, something that matters. Hell, spend it on sport if you want, people seem to like that a lot? (Weirdos.)

    I know you dude. Your a good artist, and also gay. But it's brought you suffering before.

    IF there was a way to turn you straight, into a heterosexual, who would be sexually attracted only to women, and this treatment was not flawed in any way, would you do it?

    Obs on
  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    (I think he misread my intent?)

    Tarranon on
    You could be anywhere
    On the black screen
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Nerdgasmic wrote: »
    Obs, talking with you is almost always pointless. For one thing, you usually only respond to the single portions of posts that you feel are able to competently rebut.

    For another thing, when you realize you've not competently responded to something, you resort to whiny posts about how the D & D echo-chamber is oppressing you. Like this one that I am responding to.

    You do realize that I am only one man, and there's like a whole gang of you asking so many questions.

    This isn't a press conference format, I answer whatever I can. I simply won't get to everyone's questions, ever. And the more of you there are, the less likely each individual question people ask will get answered.

    Obs on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    De..programming... homosexuality?

    You... You realise I am not a computer, right? Nor was I .. indoctrinated at some point? What about if we take all that money that would go towards, uh, debugging me, and spend it on, say, something that matters. Hell, spend it on sport if you want, people seem to like that a lot? (Weirdos.)

    I know you dude. Your a good artist, and also gay. But it's brought you suffering before.

    IF there was a way to turn you straight, into a heterosexual, who would be sexually attracted only to women, and this treatment was not flawed in any way, would you do it?

    Of course not. I wouldn't be nearly as fabulous!

    desperaterobots on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    God no. I love me. ):

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    You think ruling against Prop 8 would have been throwing democracy out the window?

    Was there anything in Prop 8 being put into law that made it an invalid law? It was put to vote by the people, and the people decided to pass it. I don't see how saying "Well... that was stupid so fuck the voice of the people" would be ok.

    For one thing, I found the argument that it's a revision, not an amendment, and thus needed a substantially higher threshold to pass fairly convincing. It's not always as simple as "lol people voted for it now it's law".

    Just out of curiosity, would an amendment undoing Prop 8 be considering a revision now?

    jothki on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I immediately thought of the episode where Smithers has to inject himself every five minutes to stay straight.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    God no. I love me. ):

    How much of you is really defined by homosexuality?

    For the most part I've always observed that gays are just like regular people except they are attracted to the same gender.

    If they were suddenly straight one day, their core personality wouldn't really be much different i think.

    Obs on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Well, perhaps if I had never known myself to be gay, but knowing that now, I could never go back. I'd have to have a memory wipe and then be turned straight.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    God no. I love me. ):

    How much of you is really defined by homosexuality?

    For the most part I've always observed that gays are just like regular people except they are attracted to the same gender.

    If they were suddenly straight one day, their core personality wouldn't really be much different i think.

    then why does it matter to you? why would you ask them to change if it's not going to make a difference?

    Medopine on
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Well, perhaps if I had never known myself to be gay, but knowing that now, I could never go back. I'd have to have a memory wipe and then be turned straight.

    Ok, how about if the treatment worked in two stages.

    First, it turns you bisexual, and then it stays that way for a while.

    And then, if you choose, you can complete it and just go heterosexual.

    ??

    Obs on
  • ProtoProto Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Being gay seriously prevents people from living normal lives, just like being transgender or whatever it's called tortures a person mentally to a point where they never feel comfortable in their own bodies.

    So you are recommending drastically changing yourself because someone else has a problem with the way you are?

    Do I have that right?

    Proto on
    and her knees up on the glove compartment
    took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
  • takyristakyris Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    In theory, that research is great, because I believe that sexual preference is a choice for many people and should be a choice for those who wish to only be attracted one way or the other (or want to be attracted to both). That kind of research could, along the way, figure out how to deprogram people who can only attain sexual satisfaction through rape or abuse (which is a tiny tiny fraction of most rapists, who, I understand, are there for the power and control more than the sex) or who are only turned on by kids.

    (And I, like a poster above, consider "choice versus way we were born" a red herring. I believe it's a choice for many, and it is a choice I fully approve of and defend.)

    But in practice, as soon as you get there, you get people who will want to turn off the gays as though they were rapists and pedophiles. Hell, there was a not-great episode of ST:TNG about this.

    So until I've got a bit more faith in the current state of humanity, no, I wouldn't support this research personally.

    Which doesn't really matter, because there are hundreds if not thousands of studies like this happening right now already.

    takyris on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    actually the majority of rapes are power based, not sexual in nature

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • takyristakyris Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    actually the majority of rapes are power based, not sexual in nature

    Hence me saying "which is a tiny tiny fraction of most rapists, who, I understand, are there for the power and control more than the sex". :)

    takyris on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    the splicing threw me off :P
    sorry

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    De..programming... homosexuality?

    You... You realise I am not a computer, right? Nor was I .. indoctrinated at some point? What about if we take all that money that would go towards, uh, debugging me, and spend it on, say, something that matters. Hell, spend it on sport if you want, people seem to like that a lot? (Weirdos.)

    I know you dude. Your a good artist, and also gay. But it's brought you suffering before.

    IF there was a way to turn you straight, into a heterosexual, who would be sexually attracted only to women, and this treatment was not flawed in any way, would you do it?

    If you thought it would give you a better life, would you go gay?

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This discussion has been closed.