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Shooting At Holocaust Museum (DC)
Evander
Disappointed FatherRegistered User regular
Disappointed FatherRegistered User regular
*NOTICE*
This thread is about the specific shooting that happened on Wednesday (and what it might suggest about our society.) If you are interested in discussing the OTHER shootings that have happened recently (such as the Tiller Murder) NOT in context of Wednesday's shooting, then perhaps this thread would be more appropriate to your interests.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/museum.shooting/index.html
So, the long and short of it is that a known 88 year old white supremeness/ant-Semite went to the National Holocaust Museum with violent intent. He managed to shoot down a security guard, before being shot himself. He's currently in critical condition. No patrons appear to have been injured.
Is there anything that we, as a society, could be doing better to prevent things like this? Is it inevitable that incidents like this will always keep occurring? In addition to hating Jews, this man also apparently hates Christians, so we can't blame religious indoctrination for this one either.
Do we, as a society, have to accept that some level of violence is simply inevitable for our species?
Edit: A list of other targets that he considered has come out, showing a wide range of hate:
This thread is about the specific shooting that happened on Wednesday (and what it might suggest about our society.) If you are interested in discussing the OTHER shootings that have happened recently (such as the Tiller Murder) NOT in context of Wednesday's shooting, then perhaps this thread would be more appropriate to your interests.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A lone gunman shot a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday before being wounded himself by return fire from other guards, police said.
Police cars mass outside the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington after a shooting there on Wednesday.
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The wounded guard later died, according to CNN affiliate WJLA, citing fire and police officials.
The suspect was identified as James von Brunn, an 88-year-old white supremacist from Maryland, two law enforcement officials told CNN.
The gunman entered the museum at 12:50 p.m. with a rifle and immediately shot a museum security guard, said Chief Cathy Lanier of the District of Columbia's Metropolitan Police Department. Two other security guards returned fire, wounding the gunman, she said.
Both the gunman and a security guard were taken to George Washington University Hospital, where the gunman was in "critical" condition and the security guard in "grave" condition, said D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty. Neither Lanier nor Fenty would identify the gunman or the wounded security guard.
Emergency vehicles converged on the area, which is near the Washington Monument and other popular tourist attractions. The museum was full at the time, with a "couple of thousand" people inside, said William Parsons, the chief of staff.
"Never take your guard force and security people for granted," Parsons said. "They did exactly what they were supposed to do to protect people in the museum."
An FBI official said there was no prior warning or threat against the museum. In a later statement, the FBI said members of its National Capital Response Squad and Joint Terrorism Task Force are taking part in the investigation.
Lanier said the area around the museum was checked by bomb-sniffing dogs as a matter of routine.
President Obama was made aware of the incident, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters.
"I walked in and I told him there had been a shooting at the museum," Gibbs said, adding that Obama was "obviously concerned for the security guard that appears to have been hurt ... obviously saddened by what has happened." See where the museum is located »
A witness, who identified herself as 19-year-old Maria without providing a last name, told CNN she heard five shots and saw a security guard lying wounded on the ground.
"It was definitely a security guard, he was down bleeding on the floor," she said. "He was face down. His back ... blood was coming out." Watch Maria describe what she saw »
Dave Pearson, a sixth-grade teacher in the Washington area, said he was on the museum's fourth floor when he heard a loud noise.
"At the time, we're visiting and all of a sudden there's like a boom, and all of a sudden they told us to stop where we're at," he told CNN's Ed Henry.
"Only thing we heard was a boom, and that was it." Watch another museum visitor tell what he saw »
A woman who did not give her name said she understood the shooting happened inside the museum near the security checkpoint at the entrance.
She said she was quickly evacuated.
"We did see yellow tape down the hall when we were being rushed out," she said. "They came in and said we had to leave right away, and they got us out."
The museum was closed for the rest of the day, and the museum statement said: "Our thoughts and prayers go out to the officer and his family."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/museum.shooting/index.html
So, the long and short of it is that a known 88 year old white supremeness/ant-Semite went to the National Holocaust Museum with violent intent. He managed to shoot down a security guard, before being shot himself. He's currently in critical condition. No patrons appear to have been injured.
Is there anything that we, as a society, could be doing better to prevent things like this? Is it inevitable that incidents like this will always keep occurring? In addition to hating Jews, this man also apparently hates Christians, so we can't blame religious indoctrination for this one either.
Do we, as a society, have to accept that some level of violence is simply inevitable for our species?
Edit: A list of other targets that he considered has come out, showing a wide range of hate:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/10/james-w-von-brunn-holocau_n_213864.htmlLaw enforcement sources told WTTG/Fox Washington that during a search of a car that is believed to belong to James von Brunn -- the alleged shooter in the fatal Holocaust Museum attack -- investigators found a notebook with information about six to nine locations in the D.C. area, including the National Holocaust Museum.
Other locations on the list included the U.S. Capitol, the White House, the Washington Post, and a FOX News location.
Evander on
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Kinda confused, really.
In any case, seems like this guy's been busted before, but an 88 year old touting a gun in a museum? Bizarre.
Basically, Obama—a half-white half-black, dyed-in-the-wool liberal, secular president—represents the death knell of the loosely-hung-together constellation of right wing extremists, crazy Christians, and white supremacists and their ideal worldview. They understandably see his election, and Western society's embrace of it, as a signal that their days are numbered. These hopeless, suicidal attacks remind me of Japanese kamikazee pilots or Muslim suicide bombers—they know they're defeated on Earth, but they want to score points for whatever greater cosmic abstraction they believe in.
Text in spoliers
By Zachary Roth - June 10, 2009, 3:40PM
James Von Brunn appears to be a kind of revered elder statesman of the hardcore white supremacist movement.
A 2003 posting on the Neo-Nazi website Storm Front, by "The Celtic Pit Dog", asked readers to wish him good health after heart surgery and noted "I have heard many great things about this amazing man."
The poster wrote:
James W. von Brunn WW2 PT Boat Captain, White Nationalist, member of Mensa, the high-IQ society, owner of the web site www.holywesternempire.org. This great White Nationalist served 6.5 years of a 11 year sentence in Federal Prison just had heart surgeory in Maryland. Wish him luck with his health. You can e mail him at vonbrunn@goeaston.com. I have never met Mr. vanBrunn but hope to meet him maybe the end of the summer. I have heard many great things about this amazing man from his son who I be-friended when he was living in Florida.
Another poster on Storm Front, Elena wrote that she was nominating Van Brunn for the title of "white racialist treasure," and described his book about the imagined Zionist conspiracy, "Kill The Best Gentiles" as "a valuable resource." Elena asked other readers to send their own nominations for the title, and signed her post: "Blessed be the Pro-White Acitivsts."
And may be not just hardcore Neo-Nazis on the right who liked Von Brunn's work. A recent screed he wrote about President Obama's birth certificate was posted on Free Republic, the conservative site.
There have been a half-dozen or so attacks like this in the last few months. Is it inevitable? In a perfect world I'd say "no." In the world we live in, the one where hate groups seem to grow on trees, it might just be.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The Holocaust Museum has some damn good security screening out front (all of the museums on the mall have good security, but the Holocaust Museum's shines above.)
It's likely that he shot the guard in reaction when he got stopped at the door, or that he planned ahead to shoot the guard, because he knew there was no way to get past the guard with the gun.
Also, a brief rundown of his writings. I'll let you guys pick the nuggets, but we should probably establish the permissibility of "n--ro."
If the thread had lurched on for two pages before I saw it, I wouldn't have locked it. But we have standards here, and we are the awesomest forums on the intarwebs because of them.
This man was apparently anti-Christian as well as anti-Judaic (according to something posted in the other thread)
I don't know if you can blame this one on belief in "cosmic abstractions."
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
He was a FReeper, anti-government, a veteran and racist. Its almost like that DHS report that the right wing media and activists so identified with was exactly right.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The fuck.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
PeTA is pretty fucked up.
They aren't as violent, but I'd argue that they are almost as crazy.
I imagine him walking up to the entrance with it hidden in a trench coat matrix style and then comically failing at dodging bullets due to his bad knee.
Makes me wonder where my grandfather (or anyone really) would assault if he were planning on going out guns blazing. I think the government buildings (or particular political figures) would be more likely targets, I agree that it takes a special breed of person to summon up that kind of hate against a museum.
Well, white power extremists are like PETA because...
I've got nothing.
edit: yes, PETA is fucked up. But this is a level beyond fucked up. They're both fucked up in completely different ways.
No.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Not to mention that he was arrested for holding up the Fed, which is a statement of a rejection of government authority if I've ever seen one, not even counting his description of the event (emphasis mine):
heart surgery a couple years back
Haven't there been instances in the past where PeTA appeared to be linked to ecoterrorists?
edit: I believe I was thinking of their relationship with ALF (the terrorist group, not the sit-com) if anyone wanted specifics
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
My worry is that the crazy hostile societies (not necessarily nationalities) through sheer force of stupidity will somehow "win" just because it's much easier to blame others for your own problems. A lot of people like to think that the 'isms are mostly gone, but it's very much the opposite and ignoring it really doesn't help out anyone.
That doesn't put PeTA anywhere near the crazy status of an old white supremacist bent on shooting up a museum.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Mainly people who harass whaling boats, with maybe one group that tries to sabotage on-board opperations.
Probably. "Ecoterrorism" is almost always non-violent sabotage or property damage though.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I can't picture a prominent PETA member shooting people at the zoo. I think the comparison falls apart. It's one thing to talk crazy shit and engage in vandalism, killing people is an entirely different thing.
Unless crestfallen progressives like me who were worried about the "permanent moral majority" or whatever in America a while back, these people can't even move anywhere more friendly to their cause, like Canada or Europe. There's nowhere for them to go.