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Benjamin Netanyahu Outlines Terms for a Palestinian State
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~ Buckaroo Banzai
Like all politics, there's a lot of domestic policy involved. The main example of this is that the Labour party is semi-socialist.
Almost all parties are weird mishmashes of different agendas in different arenas (seriously, who would logically put xenophobia, international belligerence, theocracy, and fetishizing the rich together logically to get the republican party) but as far as foreign policy goes the correction to my snark putting a religious determinism spin on the whole thing really does sum it up.
Though, somewhat socialist is a pretty wishywashy distinction. If you actually want to be technical about it pretty much everyone in the US other than Grover Norquist is somewhat socialist.
And that's pretty much because Grover is batshit insane.
This goes without saying, and probably has no small part to play in the fact socialism is increasingly not a boogeyman for anyone under the age of 65.
Hey now, there's more to it then that. He's also pretending to be making concessions while doing so, in order to undermine the Palestinian position.
Well, as expected, the Palestinian leadership has dismissed the terms. Harshly.
Goddamn it, Netanyahu.
Bibi's stunt wasn't for them.
It was for moderates in the US and the West, to look reasonable when they're being utterly unreasonable.
One word: Rabin.
The religious crazies there are that fucking crazy.
The Labour party is Social-Democratic, like most labour parties in Europe. Calling them Socialist may be the insult de jur in the US and imply suport for a semi-comunist dictatorship. Elswhere it lacks such connotations.
Plus there is the Millitary-Religious complex to consider. What the fuck is the IDF going to do if Israel is no longer in a perpetual state of war? What are the orthodox rabbis going to do if people care more about the economy then their Jewish heritage?
Don't underestimate the desire for the status quo.
Yep...there are too many people with a vested interest in Israel remaining more or less in perpetual war.
Especially since perpetual war with Palestine involves repressing the ever loving hell out of Palestine will taking less casualties than a moderate car wreck per year. And in return everyone in power gets to keep power and they get to keep fueling their expansion and religious fervor while looking the good guys to everyone who isn't in the immediate area.
Somebody has to fight off Godzilla.
For the past few years Israel had a malleable centrist government that had lost its leader, was operating under a career politician and whose problem was that it had no real momentum or direction. The government in Washington at this time was pretty much happy with the status quo.
Now we have an American President who wants to be involved in Israel from the get go, who wants to make life better for everyone, and the government is now switching over to hard liners who, thanks to demographics and immigration, will have a large and increasing amount of power in the electorate and don't want anything to change.
Great. Just great.
Netanyahu's grip on power is very very fragile. First real push for any change either way is likely to splinter his coalition.
Yes, but Israel has a history of communes, so the labour party is pretty damn moderate by historical Israeli standards.
Yes, but it will most likely be for Avigdor Lieberman's sake. As long as Russian immigrants continue to be a larger and larger part of the Israeli electorate he's going to stick around. The population that supports Kadima and Labor is aging, while the population of Muslims, Orthodox Jews, and recent immigrants is increasing. The fact that Labor has been destroyed as a major party in place of Kadima is telling. Demographics are pushing Israel's politics to the right.
The no letting Arabs in is a given in any settlement proposal. Its more of an apartheid thing, seperate but unequal.
Its also an excuse not to give palestinians Israeli citizenship, despit the fact that they live under de-facto Israeli goverment rule. The Palestinian enclaves are to be Israels bantustans.
Yes? No? Maybe?
Who knows honestly. I've never gotten a straight answer to that.
Netanyahu doesn't exactly need Obama to accept anything.
There are a few key points that I disagree with Netanyahu on (I think that certain limitations on Palestine should be set up so that they are probationary rather than permentant. I also believe we should bulldoze the fucking settlements ASAP. Etcetera.) At the end of the day, though, If Obama decides he doesn't like Israel anymore, Israel will still be around. Personally, while I'd prefer having Ehud Barak, or even Tsipi at the helm for it, over Netanyahu, a more independant Israel is something i'd love to see. If Israel is too dependant on the US, then it defeats the entire point of their exsistance.
And again, just like the 90's, the question is, who do the Palestinians have who is ready to sit down at a table, and be a partner for peace? Only this time, instead of only having the Egyptian Carpetbagger, Arafat, there are TWO potential non-options. The corrupt Fatah, who are profiting off of the Palestinian struggle too much to agree to ending it, or Hamas, who are still too busy blowing up Israeli civilians.
Britain is an Anglican country.
Which is why there are certain stupid things he has to put forward.
I miss the days when Sha'as was the crazy, but mostly harmless, party with influence. Avigdor Leiberman deserves a swift kick to the nuts. That's only because time traveling him back to the Holocaust and sticking him in one of the labor camps is simply impractical.
I'm sorry, I must have gotten mixed up; I was talking about the Israel that overwhelmingly voted to ban Arabs from having any sort of representation in Parliament, that was recently pushing to ban Arabs from celebrating holidays in their own chosen fashion in favor of revisionist history.
I apologize, I didn't know about this magical Israel where Arabs are equals to Jews not only by universally-ignored law (though, if Netanyahu gives much more ground to Lieberman, that won't be true for long), but also in reality. Could you point it out to me on a map? I'm certain it must be there, probably on the continent of Imagination Land, right next to Unicorn Isle.
That never happened.
What DID happen was a PARLIAMENTARY vote to ban two specific Arab parties for a limited ammount of time, because those parties were vocally supporting attacks that were ongoing against Israel at the time, from Hamas. This same tactic has been used, in the past, against Jewish parties in the Parliament as well.
That DID NOT ban Arabs from having representation. There are other Arab MoPs outside of those two parties.
I have no love for Likud. None.
Honestly, I'm still pissed about Barak losing that vote of no confidence in the late 90's. (edit: or was that 2000?)
And if a few members of Parliament spoke up in favor of the Arabs fighting back against the brutal murder of their families in the West Bank by the Israel jack-booted thugs, who the fuck can blame them?
Biblical prophecy.
Kinda makes suicide bombing look mild by comparison, eh?
We were discussing this in the "Steele/GOP" thread.
The Right Wing approves of Israel because it's a Democracy in the Middle East that is against brown people who are the Enemies of America and terrorists and such.
Basically, they both agree that Israel is great. Just for different reasons and ignoring alot of what Israel actually is (I hear they don't hate the gays there and such).
EDIT: The previous replies ignore the Neo-Cons and War Hawks hardon for Israel, which is pretty significant too.
Just imagine if I talked about the Palestinian people with the level of exaggeration and poetic liberty that you use to talk about Israel. I'd essentially be repeating YB party lines.
Hamas was firing rockets DURING a cease fire. After a few months of Hamas IGNORING the cease-fire, Israel retaliated, because a sovereign nation CANNOT sit back and just let itself be attacked. Hamas stepped up their attacks, and then you had a couple of parties who SIDED WITH Hamas. Not opposed the war/incursion/whatever, but SIDED WITH the enemy. Imagine what would have happened to a political party in the US that SIDED WITH Al Qaeda in the wake of 9/11.
As for your insinuation that Arabs are kept from voting, do you have ANYTHING to back that up with, or are you just letting some diarrhea loose, and shitting all over the thread? Those kinds of BASELESS accusations are EXACTLY what prevents civil discourse on the internet.
They got in a pissing contest with other parties, and the other parties won.
You can continue to talk, but if all that talk is based solely on headlines without any knowledge of what happened, you will also continue to prove yourself a fool.