To Kill an Icon. Or: The Impotency of Comics

LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
edited June 2009 in Graphic Violence
All this hubub about the rebirth of Captain America has gotten me thinking about death in comics. Specifically, the death of iconic characters that have a widespread cultural presence. The list of comic heroes that are well known to the general public is a very small one.

But at the same time, these characters who have so very thoroughly permeated our pop-culture have gained an immortality that even a media stunt like a death or resurrection in comics cannot touch.

Using Batman (Bruce Wayne) as an example, I would wager a small sum of money that there will NEVER be a mainstream movie, television series, video game, or cartoon in which Dick Grayson has assumed the mantle of the Bat. Even if Bruce Wayne is dead in comics (which he's not), he is still Batman. You cannot truly kill Bruce Wayne.

Between Batman RIP and the Marvel Civil War, it has made me realize how truly impotent comics are now. Sure, when it was announced on the news that Cap was dead, comic stores all over the country sold out of issue #25. But it didn't really matter. If they were to make a Captain America Movie (which they are), Bucky will not be the shield bearer. It will be Steve Rogers.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this post. But I guess I'm just a bit taken back at how a few select characters have transcended the medium that birthed them, to the point where that medium can no longer truly affect the status of those characters.

Lucascraft on
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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I think it's unfortunate that is true. I think the story suffers for it. I think? It depends if you follow comics for continuity, at which point the never-aging thing becomes an issue. If you follow comics to read epic stories involving iconic, almost mythical, characters then I guess you wouldn't want them to die or move on.

    Comic characters as modern myths is interesting, but how many myths constantly have new chapters added to them? At what point is there too much baggage and the slate has to be wiped clean?

    Rans on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That's the limitation of having a shared universe, rather than a limited story.

    Fencingsax on
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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    All this hubub about the rebirth of Captain America has gotten me thinking about death in comics. Specifically, the death of iconic characters that have a widespread cultural presence. The list of comic heroes that are well known to the general public is a very small one.

    But at the same time, these characters who have so very thoroughly permeated our pop-culture have gained an immortality that even a media stunt like a death or resurrection in comics cannot touch.

    Using Batman (Bruce Wayne) as an example, I would wager a small sum of money that there will NEVER be a mainstream movie, television series, video game, or cartoon in which Dick Grayson has assumed the mantle of the Bat. Even if Bruce Wayne is dead in comics (which he's not), he is still Batman. You cannot truly kill Bruce Wayne.

    batman_beyond-show.jpg

    Bloods End on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I thought of Batman Beyond when I was writing that, but even with Terry in the suit, it was still Bruce Wayne that was calling the shots, and all of the tech and intel was provided by Bruce. They came close, but still did not manage to break away from him completely.

    Lucascraft on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Batman, Superman, and Captain America are actually unique cases in that their resurrections were already planned when they died. To me, that means that their particular storylines aren't really indicative of the greater trend in comics of rampant and arbitrary death and resurrection. Those three cases just happen to get lumped in because of a strong resemblance and the fact they reinforce the meaninglessness of death in comics.

    Course, it can be argued that death isn't necessarily meaningless, but rather possessing of a different meaning. The problem, then, isn't that death isn't treated with the same importance that it carries in the real world, but rather that it gets treated with that same importance in certain ways that create the impression that it should be the same in all ways. Specifically, the characters and the readers are meant to believe that death is permanent even when that's clearly not the case. If death is presented as permanent, then can we really be blamed for saying that it should be permanent?

    The solution, then, might be to just incorporate the clearly impermanent nature of death in comics into comics that feature death and stop treating death like it was the end of the line. Unfortunately, I can't see this happening, as writers (except for the rare few, like Grant Morrison) seem to prefer writing about death in comics as though there was no afterlife or cycle of resurrection, even when it's staring us in the face. I think this is because they just want their stories to have impact, and death is the easiest way to achieve that.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I've said this before when these threads or discussions pop up, but death and rebirth are completely common in myth and folklore, and what are comics today if not the stories of Achillies and Apollo from before?

    I think people should accept that the cycle of death and rebirth are common in comics. Now, MY issue is that I would rather these cycles be plot driven, not just used as a ploy to increase lagging sales.

    Sentry on
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    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    I've said this before when these threads or discussions pop up, but death and rebirth are completely common in myth and folklore, and what are comics today if not the stories of Achillies and Apollo from before?

    This thinking only works for actual deaths, not retconned deaths. There's nothing mythic about Spoiler faking her death, for instance, or Xorn turning out to be some guy who made himself look like Magneto.

    Ham-fisted retcons are the real problem, I think.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    I've said this before when these threads or discussions pop up, but death and rebirth are completely common in myth and folklore, and what are comics today if not the stories of Achillies and Apollo from before?

    This thinking only works for actual deaths, not retconned deaths. There's nothing mythic about Spoiler faking her death, for instance, or Xorn turning out to be some guy who made himself look like Magneto.

    Ham-fisted retcons are the real problem, I think.

    I mean... I guess. Odysseus disguised himself as a begger while letting his wife think him dead... so... there is precedent.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I've said this before when these threads or discussions pop up, but death and rebirth are completely common in myth and folklore, and what are comics today if not the stories of Achillies and Apollo from before?

    This thinking only works for actual deaths, not retconned deaths. There's nothing mythic about Spoiler faking her death, for instance, or Xorn turning out to be some guy who made himself look like Magneto.

    Ham-fisted retcons are the real problem, I think.

    I mean... I guess. Odysseus disguised himself as a begger while letting his wife think him dead... so... there is precedent.

    Yeah it's similar, but since it wasn't a retcon there's a world of difference in execution and impact on the story.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I've said this before when these threads or discussions pop up, but death and rebirth are completely common in myth and folklore, and what are comics today if not the stories of Achillies and Apollo from before?

    This thinking only works for actual deaths, not retconned deaths. There's nothing mythic about Spoiler faking her death, for instance, or Xorn turning out to be some guy who made himself look like Magneto.

    Ham-fisted retcons are the real problem, I think.

    I mean... I guess. Odysseus disguised himself as a begger while letting his wife think him dead... so... there is precedent.

    Yeah it's similar, but since it wasn't a retcon there's a world of difference in execution and impact on the story.

    I get what you're saying, but that's more the fault of the medium then it is the story. One could argue that retcons are almost a necessity for moving the story forward.

    I mean, if at the end of the story Hercules dies, the next person to tell a story with Herclues is essentially retconning that death.

    But this is where the comparison starts to fray... telling stories on a linear time line is quite different from just spinning a tale about some guy in a loin cloth who once did this thing...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    I get what you're saying, but that's more the fault of the medium then it is the story. One could argue that retcons are almost a necessity for moving the story forward.

    I agree. Oftentimes it'd be impossible for a new writer to leave a unique mark on a character without overriding some of the prior writer's work, and so we need a fair amount of retcons in order to prevent long-running books from stagnating.
    I mean, if at the end of the story Hercules dies, the next person to tell a story with Herclues is essentially retconning that death.

    Not necessarily. If Hercules is brought back to life and ascends to godhood, the death is not retconned because he still died. The only issue is, perhaps, that the author of the earlier story had wanted the story where Hercules dies to be the last Hercules story. That said, if it's been established that death is not by definition permanent in the universe in which Hercules resides, then there'd be no reason for the audience to think the story where Hercules dies would be the last Hercules story.

    Conversely, if the story after the death says that Hercules' twin had died in his place, then that is a poorly done retcon because the events of the character's death are now completely different. This sort of practice is what I consider to be the problem.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Between Batman RIP and the Marvel Civil War, it has made me realize how truly impotent comics are now.

    That's one way to look at the issue. Here's another: comics have created small-time fictional characters, raised them up to the same status as the mythical heroes of yesteryear, and integrated them so deeply into modern culture that they can no longer pull the plug on those same characters. The reason comics can't kill Superman or Batman is because they don't belong to comics anymore. They exist in the collective consciousness, just like Hercules and Br'er Rabbit and Little Johnny and so on. Like you said, they're icons; DC can kill Batman the character, but as far as the people are concerned, Batman the ideal is brooding in the Batcave or using bat-shark-repellant or dancing the batusi.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration. At the same time, I think we're really in a much better place than we could be. I'd rather have comic raise up legendary archetypes that can't be budged afterwards than being dismissed out of hand for being simplistic stories for kids.

    By the way, if we're equating comics to myths (a comparison that I think is entirely appropriate), I do want to mention that myths went through plenty of changes. There were retcons, there were cases of different storytellers ascribing different traits to the same character, there were multiple versions of ostensibly the same events. It wasn't exactly a case of "Oh, Hector was faking being dead!", but continuity was fairly flexible in those stories.

    Delduwath on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    yeah, the thing with myths is that that any motherfucker could tell or write those stories, and there are tons of contradicting, altered, etc. representations of those characters, which is the same as what's going on now, except now there are copyright and intellectual property laws restricting who has their hands on these characters.

    as for me, I could give less than two shits about continuity or canon. I see these legendary comic characters as merely tools for storytelling, and I'm looking for good stories with them. I read the good ones and try to avoid the bad ones, and leave it at that.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Delduwath wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Between Batman RIP and the Marvel Civil War, it has made me realize how truly impotent comics are now.

    That's one way to look at the issue. Here's another: comics have created small-time fictional characters, raised them up to the same status as the mythical heroes of yesteryear, and integrated them so deeply into modern culture that they can no longer pull the plug on those same characters. The reason comics can't kill Superman or Batman is because they don't belong to comics anymore. They exist in the collective consciousness, just like Hercules and Br'er Rabbit and Little Johnny and so on. Like you said, they're icons; DC can kill Batman the character, but as far as the people are concerned, Batman the ideal is brooding in the Batcave or using bat-shark-repellant or dancing the batusi.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration. At the same time, I think we're really in a much better place than we could be. I'd rather have comic raise up legendary archetypes that can't be budged afterwards than being dismissed out of hand for being simplistic stories for kids.

    By the way, if we're equating comics to myths (a comparison that I think is entirely appropriate), I do want to mention that myths went through plenty of changes. There were retcons, there were cases of different storytellers ascribing different traits to the same character, there were multiple versions of ostensibly the same events. It wasn't exactly a case of "Oh, Hector was faking being dead!", but continuity was fairly flexible in those stories.

    This is true. I mean, you can't even find a solid reason for Achilles invulnerability. Some tales say he had armor forged by Hephaestus that covered everything but his heel, other tales say his mother held him by the heel and dipped him in the river Styx.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • bathingapebathingape Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Marvel needs to make up it's mind when it comes to Jean Grey

    bathingape on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    bathingape wrote: »
    Marvel needs to make up it's mind when it comes to Jean Grey

    No, they don't.

    They just need a good story for her cycle of deaths and rebirths.

    Frankly, I loved her last death, until the Xorneto retcon. It was a tragic death brought on by a petty tyrant who threw a temper-tantrum and killed her. It was awesome in its pointlessness.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • MugaazMugaaz Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Why do chars have to die to have meaning? Argument makes no sense. When they are placed in "mortal danger" obviously some tension is lossed compared to something like a work of short fiction where it's truly unknown what will happen. So what though? There is no reason it can't be compelling even if there is no true danger, good writing can still leave those cliffhangers that make you want to read to see HOW they got out of the situation. If Marvel / DC killed their chars off in any meaningful fashion they would be out of business and no one would care. Characters don't have to die to create drama.

    Mugaaz on
  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I LIKE when characters die. I just wish they'd fucking stay dead.

    Rans on
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I prefer when characters give up mantle of a hero, or take on another identity, Rather than forcing a death out of a character.

    Ziggymon on
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  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    The funniest thing about the death of Captain America were the people who'd heard about it on the news and were coming into the comic shop to buy copies as an investment. I hope they're not planning their retirements around it.

    I'm kind of disappointed with so many of the DC heroes coming back in recent years. I love Hal and Barry and Ollie but it was also fun to see Kyle and Wally and Connor pick up where they left off.

    DMAC on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    yeah, the fact that mainstreamers still see "oooooh, that comic's a collector's item." surprises me.

    The active marketing of comics as collector's items hasn't been prominent since the 90s, I don't think. and unless I'm mistaken, which I easily could be, very few comics since the mid 70s are worth anything.

    I remember when people picked up the first issue of electric superman because they thought it was gonna be worth a fortune down the line.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    so what, you're saying my 9/11 spidey that has Doom crying isn't going to be worth anything?

    Now I'm REALLY jaded.

    I do want to point out what Ziggy said. I think there's a lot more story potential to a character that gives up the cape then there is with one that dies. I would love to see a relationship like Nite Owl had in the Watchmen.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • TexiKenTexiKen Elite Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    When a character dies, the death can be meaningless or one panel, but let there be some kind of lead in so that the fans may get some solace in seeing that character before they bite the dust. A Requiem story at least.

    When Guy Gardner died in JLA: Our Worlds at War (written by Loeb), it was such a bullshit move. They basically had one panel with Booster, Beetle, and Guy fighting the bad giant robot and Guy is impaled and killed. That's more a "fuck you this villain is so hardcore look what they did to this long time character" rather than having any real weight behind it. It was Superboy punching Panthra's head off, only 5 years earlier and having 1/10 the reasoning behind it.

    Another thing that needs to stop and would help with the pointless deaths is writers trying to leave some sort of legacy to their work, instead of just doing the work and worrying about legacy later. We've reached the point where we are on roughly the third generation of comic creators, and they look back at what happened and instead of just telling their story, they have to try and make it stack up to things that are (thanks to rose colored glasses) almost untouchable.

    A good example is Tomassi's Nightwing. He didn't really reinvent anything, he just told good stories and they stood out pretty much immediately as being good. The only stretch he did was having Dick work at a museum, which is pittance. Everything else was about telling a good story. And it worked.

    TexiKen on
  • psycojesterpsycojester Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    yeah, the fact that mainstreamers still see "oooooh, that comic's a collector's item." surprises me.

    Because the general publics perception of comic book fans is Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons waddling around paying obscene amounts of cash for the issue he must own.
    It was Superboy punching Panthra's head off, only 5 years earlier and having 1/10 the reasoning behind it.

    I hope next time Superboy shows up he fights Risk again and rips a leg off this time.

    psycojester on
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  • VerrVerr Registered User
    edited June 2009
    RIP Stiltman.

    EDIT: Uhh..

    Yeah, a bunch of my friends dislike comics for this reason. They know that the good guys can never lose, even though they might still come out a bit behind, the hero's will always win. Or, at least only the heroes they care about will.

    Verr on
  • BostonGanglerBostonGangler Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Verr wrote: »
    RIP Stiltman.

    EDIT: Uhh..

    Yeah, a bunch of my friends dislike comics for this reason. They know that the good guys can never lose, even though they might still come out a bit behind, the hero's will always win. Or, at least only the heroes they care about will.

    This is true in mainstream comics. It's also true in mainstream movies, mainstream television, mainstream books, mainstream video games...

    BostonGangler on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Verr wrote: »
    RIP Stiltman.

    EDIT: Uhh..

    Yeah, a bunch of my friends dislike comics for this reason. They know that the good guys can never lose, even though they might still come out a bit behind, the hero's will always win. Or, at least only the heroes they care about will.

    So, what, they just sit around watching Empire Strikes Back all the time? That's the stupidest reason to not like comics I've ever heard.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • VerrVerr Registered User
    edited June 2009
    Hey, I didn't say I agree with them. Just posting why my buds don't like comic books. They feel as though they are getting ripped off and what have you. I think that it is a bit too mainstream to have the Endless Protagonist Syndrome, but, I also enjoy the good guys winning, and if I want something that isn't good guys, I go read some anti-hero stuff, or play GTA or Prototype.

    Verr on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Elite Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Final Crisis was supposed to be that "what if the bad guys won" story but there was very little feeling that the world was under Darkseid's rule for ~4 months in the DC universe. Even Batman dying at the end could have been plugged into any big event.

    TexiKen on
  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    this is where i think they really fucked up with final crisis.

    there WAS scope to this. it was huge. why couldn't we have had a month or three where all of the books dealt with life under Darkseid's rule? there seemed to be plenty of story opportunity there but instead it was....... whatever issues 4 - 7 were.

    Rans on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Elite Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Exactly. One of the coolest scenes was Black Lightning running from the Apokalips dogs in Submit delivering the Daily Planet underground paper, and there was all this story that could have been told about the resistance, like how Checkmate castle survived for months with Hawkman and Hawkgirl leading heroes to defend it around the clock.

    TexiKen on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    final crisis went for this weird perspective on the event that I don't think was really executed very well

    there was a lot of shit going down but there was like a weird filter that made it seem like nothing really mattered at all

    which is a problem I have with a lot of morrison's work, actually, there are really cool and interesting ideas, but the way he puts those ideas into comic form kind of leaves me wanting in a lot of cases

    keep in mind I haven't read stuff like Animal Man or Seven Soldiers

    DJ Eebs on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited June 2009
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Exactly. One of the coolest scenes was Black Lightning running from the Apokalips dogs in Submit delivering the Daily Planet underground paper, and there was all this story that could have been told about the resistance, like how Checkmate castle survived for months with Hawkman and Hawkgirl leading heroes to defend it around the clock.

    You know, while I understand why people hate the idea of tie-ins, especially when they're telling stories that should be in the main event book (Infinite Crisis was really bad at this), there's a lot of shit flung at tie-ins that basically amounts to people bitching for the sake of bitching. These "events" tend to be based around huge events in the universe that should really affect every character, and you can't fit all the secondary stuff in the main book, because that'd be stupid.

    So the main companies toss a tie-in label on a bunch of books and the fans get answers to "what the hell was X doing when Y happened" and the company makes a lot of money and maybe a low-selling book gets an extra six or twelve issues before it's canceled.

    I mean, I can understand if they're crap, but in a lot of cases recently, they're better than the core book of the event. I can kind of understand why DC's moved away from the tie-in model that Marvel uses, but a lot of why it didn't work for DC is that they did it so badly in the first place that people threw a shit fit, and then they overcorrected to the situation they're in now. I'm pretty sure it's a huge reason that they're constantly trailing behind Marvel in sales anymore.

    DJ Eebs on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Elite Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I get what you are saying about the filter, that's what I felt like reading it....and then quit halfway through. It was the way the story went coupled with the delays that DC kind of said halfway through "OK, this isn't working out, we're moving on. Hey look at Green Lantern and New Krypton!"

    I mean, Birds of Prey was the only book to really mention the after effects of FC (excluding Batman dying), with the internet being down and noticeable signs of clean up.

    TexiKen on
  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    it's not like the Civil War and Secret Invasion tie-ins weren't huuuugely successful for Marvel

    the result of NOT reflecting events in major event books in regular series is that the major event suddenly feels.... less major

    and then gets ignored in the regular books. Final Crisis has been referenced in, what, Justice League? and the Batman books.

    the GL books have ignored it completely

    Rans on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Rans wrote: »
    it's not like the Civil War and Secret Invasion tie-ins weren't huuuugely successful for Marvel

    the result of NOT reflecting events in major event books in regular series is that the major event suddenly feels.... less major

    and then gets ignored in the regular books. Final Crisis has been referenced in, what, Justice League? and the Batman books.

    the GL books have ignored it completely
    What I really want is for a GL to come to earth explaining darkest night, and have someone ask something to the effect of "Is there a recent interuniversal cataclysmic even you schmucks aren't responsible for or helping along?"

    Fencingsax on
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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    hah it is true that almost all the earth-shattering DC events have their roots somewhere in the Green Lantern mythos

    Rans on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I would say the Civil War is the most successful major event in recent comic history. The fallout of the war was felt in pretty much every book in the Marvel brand. Everyone had a side. Not only that, but the Civil War spawned some of the coolest side stories, such as the Stark Tech Spider Suit, which I dearly wish they would have used a bit more than they did. But it was cool while it lasted.

    Hopefully with Blackest Night, DC will be able to emulate a bit of the success of the Civil War.

    Lucascraft on
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Rans wrote: »
    this is where i think they really fucked up with final crisis.

    there WAS scope to this. it was huge. why couldn't we have had a month or three where all of the books dealt with life under Darkseid's rule? there seemed to be plenty of story opportunity there but instead it was....... whatever issues 4 - 7 were.

    Agreed. While I really liked Final Crisis, I do think it would've worked MUCH better if it had acted as a sort of spine of the DCU with the other books filling in the blanks. Kind of like what Countdown was meant to be but with the events actually happening in the main book and, you know, actually being good.

    Of course, that would probably require communication, which DC Editorial seems to have a lot of problems with.

    Unco-ordinated on
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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I would say the Civil War is the most successful major event in recent comic history. The fallout of the war was felt in pretty much every book in the Marvel brand. Everyone had a side. Not only that, but the Civil War spawned some of the coolest side stories, such as the Stark Tech Spider Suit, which I dearly wish they would have used a bit more than they did. But it was cool while it lasted.

    Hopefully with Blackest Night, DC will be able to emulate a bit of the success of the Civil War.

    I agree with this, although Punisher was the best Civil War tie in. I also think Secret Invasion had stronger tie-in's then the main story, like Deadpool, the Initiative, and New Avengers. As much as people hate on Secret Invasion, there was some good stuff to come out of there.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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