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PS3 software Backwards compatibility patent filed

-Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered User regular
edited July 2009 in Games and Technology
Apparently Sony has patented a new method of emulating emotion engine code on the Playstation 3 architecture. I'm pretty happy if anything comes of it (like a firmware update that enables even limited PS2 backwards compatibility). Though it's possible they just patented it in order to hold the patent.

Would this piss off people who went out and paid through the nose for a backwards compatible PS3?

edit - Original siliconera article.

-Loki- on
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Posts

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would be the happiest man on the planet if this were true.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I bought one of those 80GB MGS4 PS3s in May mainly so I could have backward compatibility, but if this made more PS2 games compatible with my PS3, I'd be happy.

    If not, eh. No big deal. Cool deal for everyone else without BC though!

    SteevL on
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The more I think of it, the more it hits me it could be something they want to hold for legal reasons. But that's the pessimist in me.

    -Loki- on
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Don't get your hopes up, it's non-news. They've been able to emulate the Emotion Engine for years now (it's in my PS3), it's the Graphics Synthesizer that's the hard part. If they manage to emulate that then we'll probably see PS2 BC patched into the newer PS3's.

    Unco-ordinated on
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  • The Reverend Dr GalactusThe Reverend Dr Galactus Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Remember also, the most likely implementation of any new software BC on the PS3 will be for PSN re-releases of PS2 games and not blanket compatibility.

    At least this restriction is less likely with Kaz Hirai than with Ken Kutaragi. Although I suppose there's also the chance that it could be made for purely technical reasons, that individual games would need their own optimizations of the compatibility layer.

    Of course, I'll gladly forget about disc compatibility the moment Shadow of the Colossus or Ico shows up on PSN.

    The Reverend Dr Galactus on
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  • BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    BlackDove on
  • ZellZell Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The patent doesn't specifically mention PS3 does it? Could be just planning for the PS4...

    Zell on
  • FireWeaselFireWeasel Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    I would actually buy a PS3 if this were so.

    FireWeasel on
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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm guessing you've never tried playing a PS2 on an HDTV.

    Protip: Even with component cables, they look like total fucking cockshit. The upscaling for PS2 games on the older model PS3s worked quite nicely in making games not look terrible.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PS2 on an HDTV makes me want to rip my eyes out.

    Fireflash on
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  • skyfireskyfire Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    This patent is only in regards to emulation of the Emotion Engine, Nothing said about the Graphics synthesizer so BC is still a pipe dream at this point for PS2 games.

    I think it would be great if Sony brought back BC but i get the feeling if they did it would be for titles that would be sold off PSN. Not a bad thing mind you I just don't see BC through hardware or software emulation for disc based titles coming back this gen.

    @lowlylowlycook
    I disagree, not everyone wants to have multiple systems and controllers and memory cards. BC was one of the main reasons i got my PS3 when i did. I like the fact i have an all in one system. Games saves all on the HDD, wireless controllers across all libraries. It's pretty arrogant of you (and anyone else) to suggest if you want to play PS1/2 games then get a PS2. That is exactly why (imho) Sony took BC out in the first place. If people had looked past the $600 price tag and instead looked at how much value the PS3 offered (even then) chances are we would still have BC in PS3's.

    skyfire on
  • RakaiRakai Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    skyfire wrote: »
    This patent is only in regards to emulation of the Emotion Engine, Nothing said about the Graphics synthesizer so BC is still a pipe dream at this point for PS2 games.

    I think it would be great if Sony brought back BC but i get the feeling if they did it would be for titles that would be sold off PSN. Not a bad thing mind you I just don't see BC through hardware or software emulation for disc based titles coming back this gen.

    @lowlylowlycook
    I disagree, not everyone wants to have multiple systems and controllers and memory cards. BC was one of the main reasons i got my PS3 when i did. I like the fact i have an all in one system. Games saves all on the HDD, wireless controllers across all libraries. It's pretty arrogant of you (and anyone else) to suggest if you want to play PS1/2 games then get a PS2. That is exactly why (imho) Sony took BC out in the first place. If people had looked past the $600 price tag and instead looked at how much value the PS3 offered (even then) chances are we would still have BC in PS3's.

    Do they have a patent for the emulation method currently used? Either way, working on it means something is in the works as patching up current BC systems wouldn't bring them any money as they don't sell them anymore.

    Any PS2 games on PSN would just be downloadable ISOs. Including such functionality would mean including disc based BC unless they hard coded it to specifically exclude such functionality. Given that disc based PS1 games still play despite selling them through the PSN, I don't see why they would change it for PS2 games.

    Another thing to keep in mind, is that there are a huge number of people still playing their PS2s. Was it the NPD survey that listed it as the most played console still? Sony probably hopes that as the price gets cheaper it would be easier to woo such people if their games were still playable on the new system.

    Rakai on
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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm sure some other asinine use could come of this. I also already have one of the 80GB PS3s that had BC built in so... Yeah.

    Henroid on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Would this piss off people who went out and paid through the nose for a backwards compatible PS3?

    Nope.

    The more people who can play ps2 games on their ps3, the merrier, I say.

    Evander on
  • jeddy leejeddy lee Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I surely hope we get bc on the PS3's that don't have it. I know I would sure like it...

    jeddy lee on
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  • donhonkdonhonk Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Hm, if it was a patent for emulating the PS2 GPU then I would be more excited. Still going to sell my PS2/PS3 to get a BC one... If it does end up being PS2 emulation then.... Well I have 4 USB ports.

    donhonk on
  • BuntaBunta Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I wouldn't be mad since I got mine when the 60 gig was the only game in town.

    Bunta on
  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'd love to give SotC, ICO, GoW2, and MGS3 another go. I also never played FFXII, God Hand, and...yeah this would be a really, really, really good thing. They were nutters to take it out in the first place.

    Darlan on
  • donhonkdonhonk Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Darlan wrote: »
    They were nutters to take it out in the first place.

    Limed so hard.

    donhonk on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    donhonk wrote: »
    Darlan wrote: »
    They were nutters to take it out in the first place.

    Limed so hard.

    Pretty much. I guess Sony can get away with going back and forth on these sort of things--unified online service, BC, whatever. So long as it's there in the end.

    I paid $310 for my BC 80GB. Assuming it doesn't die tomorrow, I think that was an okay deal. Was it? Still need to buy a DS3 though.

    Synthesis on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Hopefully it means that SotC can be run at a smooth framerate now.

    Did the original emulation allow for better framerates? IIRC it was literally the PS2 hardware as part of the PS3 architecture, so I'm not sure it did.

    subedii on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm guessing you've never tried playing a PS2 on an HDTV.

    Protip: Even with component cables, they look like total fucking cockshit. The upscaling for PS2 games on the older model PS3s worked quite nicely in making games not look terrible.

    You guess wong. You need to buy a TV with better upscaling.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    Because if there's one thing I want to do when I buy a PS3, it's pay an extra 100 smackers to replace my ailing PS2.

    galenblade on
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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    galenblade wrote: »
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    Because if there's one thing I want to do when I buy a PS3, it's pay an extra 100 smackers to replace my ailing PS2.

    Nothing could be further from my intent than to defend Sony's decisions for the PS3.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    galenblade wrote: »
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    Because if there's one thing I want to do when I buy a PS3, it's pay an extra 100 smackers to replace my ailing PS2.

    Nothing could be further from my intent than to defend Sony's decisions for the PS3.

    yeah, you're clearly just criticizing Sony's new refusal to sell PS2s to the hopeless.

    Evander on
  • BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    My PS2 phat from way back then still functions and plays Persona 4 to this day.

    However I want to shelve it if I were to get a PS3. Even though I have plenty of room, I'd much rather have one machine do everything than several.

    I understand why they took it out, it's like Microsoft not putting that $1 component in the disc drive that would prevent the disc scratching. It's $1. $1 x 30 000 000 = quite the savings.

    BlackDove on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    My theory all along was that Sony was removing BC to both save money and spur PS2 sales to the chagrin of the entire planet, and then once PS2 sales slowed to a trickle they would put it back and bask in the warm glow and adulation of people happy that they put something back they shouldn't have taken away to begin with. Guess what, Analysts say that within a year PS2 sales are going to shrink to an inconsequential number.

    The_Spaniard on
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  • BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    That makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't. Everyone who'd want a PS2 would get it, but then others would get a PS3 to get it as well.

    I mean they sell a console either way, and I'm pretty sure they want to sell their PS3's even though the PS2's are pure total profit.

    BlackDove on
  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    I understand why they took it out, it's like Microsoft not putting that $1 component in the disc drive that would prevent the disc scratching. It's $1. $1 x 30 000 000 = quite the savings.

    Exactly at launch it cost $28 to put the ps2 chips in the ps3. Now it probably cost less towards the end since they were able to emulate the EE, but even if the GS cost $10 that is still quite a bit of money.

    greeble on
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    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm guessing you've never tried playing a PS2 on an HDTV.

    Protip: Even with component cables, they look like total fucking cockshit. The upscaling for PS2 games on the older model PS3s worked quite nicely in making games not look terrible.

    You guess wong. You need to buy a TV with better upscaling.

    Except for the fact that I've tried both a PS2 with component cables and a hardware-based BC PS3 on my HDTV, and guess what? One looked phenomenally better.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    My theory all along was that Sony was removing BC to both save money and spur PS2 sales to the chagrin of the entire planet, and then once PS2 sales slowed to a trickle they would put it back and bask in the warm glow and adulation of people happy that they put something back they shouldn't have taken away to begin with. Guess what, Analysts say that within a year PS2 sales are going to shrink to an inconsequential number.

    BC cost them next to nothing.

    It wasn't a cost move. It was done in order to get PS3 owners to stop buying/playing PS2 games, but to buy PS3 games instead. Jack Tretton actually made that exact statement himself.



    You don't make that statement unless you are covering up something even worse, man.

    Evander on
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    My theory all along was that Sony was removing BC to both save money and spur PS2 sales to the chagrin of the entire planet, and then once PS2 sales slowed to a trickle they would put it back and bask in the warm glow and adulation of people happy that they put something back they shouldn't have taken away to begin with. Guess what, Analysts say that within a year PS2 sales are going to shrink to an inconsequential number.

    BC cost them next to nothing.

    It wasn't a cost move. It was done in order to get PS3 owners to stop buying/playing PS2 games, but to buy PS3 games instead. Jack Tretton actually made that exact statement himself.



    You don't make that statement unless you are covering up something even worse, man.

    Still next to nothing times 40+ million units is still a healthy chunk of change to save. I also did mention the PS2 sales. But yeah I forgot to mention that one too.

    The_Spaniard on
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  • RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm actually afraid of buying a PS2 because of its reputation of having DREs. My GameCube had that and boy did it make me feel bad :(

    RockinX on
  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ahh here we go. At ps3 launch EE + GS cost about $27 according to isuppli
    http://www.emsnow.com/newsarchives/archivedetails.cfm?ID=15102

    $27 * 20,000,000 = $540,000,000 That is hardly nothing.

    greeble on
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    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
    I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    RockinX wrote: »
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm actually afraid of buying a PS2 because of its reputation of having DREs. My GameCube had that and boy did it make me feel bad :(

    This problem is a lot less likely with the slim PS2s. They don't even sell fat PS2s anymore.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    RockinX wrote: »
    BlackDove wrote: »
    PS3 Slim should be backwards compatible.

    One would hope.

    Hope and $99.99 will buy your the ability to play PS2 games.

    I'm actually afraid of buying a PS2 because of its reputation of having DREs. My GameCube had that and boy did it make me feel bad :(

    This problem is a lot less likely with the slim PS2s. They don't even sell fat PS2s anymore.

    Still, it'd be nice to be able to play games from both consoles when I get a Ps3.

    RockinX on
  • DidgeridooDidgeridoo Flighty Dame Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I've said it before and I'll say it again- I would not have bought my PS3 if it didn't have backwards compatibility. I'm glad I bought it early, because I really do like the system. But even though it would have been cheap to buy a used PS2, i didn't want to dedicate the extra space and electricity to another system. Probably would have kept the PS2 and bought a 360.

    I hope they do bring back the backwards compatibility. Even though I paid more for my model than the new one is likely to cost, more people playing the PS3 means more games and exclusives! :D

    Didgeridoo on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    While I can't say for certain that I wouldn't have bought a PS3 without BC (who can say what one might have done?), I can say I spent a day and a half calling every single electronics store, mom and pop shop, department store and oversized grocery store in my city until I started calling video stores and found a Blockbuster with a cherry 60GB unit.

    I <3 my 60G. Backwards compatibility is definitely an important feature to me.

    Chance on
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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I have the 80 GB MGS4 PS3 and the PS2 BC is nice, but not close to perfect. Persona 4 had a glitch that would prevent location names from showing and Champions of Norrath had such bad problems with textures flickering in and out that it gave me a headache.

    Luckily I have both a launch PS2 and a slim, so if I run into a game that doesn't work right, I can switch over.

    Gyral on
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