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The Perfect Pizza Crust.
Dissociater
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm calling on the bread bakers of H/A for advice here. I have long made my own pizza dough from scratch, and have always had good results.
The basic recipe I always use is:
It's always pretty tasty.
But yesterday I decided I wanted to make a more new york style pizza crust. One that's chewy, yet crispy, the kind you'd get from gourmet pizza places. I grabbed the brochure menu of my favorite pizza place looking for a clue. At the top of the menu it said "All our pizzas are made with Durum Semolina crust and are stone baked!"
So I googled a few recipes and ended up making using the following:
1.25 cup best for blending flour
1.25 cups durum Semolina Flour.
I used the same process as above, but I didn't like the results. Instead of crispy and chewy, I got soft and not chewy. It also tasted a lot like whole wheat crust, which I don't like the flavor of.
I've heard of crusts using gluten as a recipe, but I thought I'd see if there are any bakers out there who could offer some help.
The basic recipe I always use is:
1 cup water : 2.5 cups flour
I dissolve about a tbsp of yeast in the water with some sugar, and let it stand about 5-10 minutes. Add in a bit of olive oil, and mix with the flour and knead knead knead. I let it rise for an hour, punch it down, let it rise another hour, then put my toppings on, and cook at high (450-500) for about 10 minutes.
I dissolve about a tbsp of yeast in the water with some sugar, and let it stand about 5-10 minutes. Add in a bit of olive oil, and mix with the flour and knead knead knead. I let it rise for an hour, punch it down, let it rise another hour, then put my toppings on, and cook at high (450-500) for about 10 minutes.
It's always pretty tasty.
But yesterday I decided I wanted to make a more new york style pizza crust. One that's chewy, yet crispy, the kind you'd get from gourmet pizza places. I grabbed the brochure menu of my favorite pizza place looking for a clue. At the top of the menu it said "All our pizzas are made with Durum Semolina crust and are stone baked!"
So I googled a few recipes and ended up making using the following:
1.25 cup best for blending flour
1.25 cups durum Semolina Flour.
I used the same process as above, but I didn't like the results. Instead of crispy and chewy, I got soft and not chewy. It also tasted a lot like whole wheat crust, which I don't like the flavor of.
I've heard of crusts using gluten as a recipe, but I thought I'd see if there are any bakers out there who could offer some help.
Dissociater on
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How are you cooking your pizza? Are you using a pizza stone or a pan? When I make pizza, I'll crank my oven up as high as it goes and let it sit for about 30 minutes before I start baking. It's not as hot as a good restaurants oven, but it is as close as you're going to get at home. Stretch your dough nice and thin and it should crisp up nicely on a stone.
At Dominos (where I work) our "Brooklyn" style pizza which is a thin crust hand tossed like you are talking about, is actually a large pizza stretched out from a small dough.
So... maybe less dough over a larger area is what you are wanting.
- get a pizza brick (honestly I got a garden brick at home depot for $3 and it works fine. just be sure to choose one that wont be toxic).
- get a pizza peel (this is that wooden thing that lets you set up the pizza dough and slide it onto the brick)
How high can your oven go? The highest mine can go is 550 F (the recipe I linked above goes to 800 or something ridiculous like that- you have to keep that in mind as you read his recipe. he's really trying to go for the real deal, which is made in a very high temperature oven).
For pizza dough, I use the following things:
Bread flour, salt, yeast, and water.
Varasano recommends 110 g of water, 168 g of flour, and 6 g of salt, to make one pizza. Honestly, the only thing that I measure is the salt and the yeast (6 g salt, 6 g yeast). The rest I go by feel of the dough. I then add some amount of flour that is close to 168 g. I add enough water to make the dough pretty wet, sort of like a pudding consistency, but maybe a little drier. I mix for 3 minutes or so and let it sit for 20 minutes (this is called autolysing, and is apparently very important for the development of a good crust structure).
After the autolyse, I start mixing more rigorously. This takes a long time. Right now the dough is pretty wet, which is good because its easier to mix, and the majority of the kneading (this is referred to as 'wet kneading' by varasano) is done here. I mix for some amount of time, and add a small amount of flour. I keep mixing, and adding small amounts of flour at a time. The end goal is a dough that when you mix, sort of forms a ball... meaning the dough kind of sticks to itself. You don't want it too dry though. This takes experience.. I've been doing this for two years and only recently have I felt that I got the right consistency.
Then you let it sit for 15-20 minutes, to allow more time for structure to develop.
If I made several doughs in one sitting, this is where I would take the massive dough, and hand knead it on the pizza peel, for a couple minutes. This is really only to shape the dough. I cut the dough into the desired number, and I hand knead these smaller doughs as well. I place each of these doughs into a lightly greased (by olive oil) container. Usually, it's better to put these containers in the fridge and let the yeast rise in a slow and controlled manner. If you're in a hurry you can keep them outside and let it rise a bit. You don't want to let it rise too much; if it's over-risen then the bubbles formed by the yeast wont translate nicely into the pizza.
Once it's risen, and the oven has been heating for at least an hour, I take the dough, dip it in flour on both sides (taking care not to completely destroy the dough, since the bubbles will be lost), and place it on the pizza peel. I put a little bit of flour on the pizza peel, otherwise the dough will stick. Then, by putting my fingers under the dough and pulling towards the edges of the peel, I slowly expand the dough. Now that I have a little more experience, and the texture of my dough is a little drier and lighter than before, I think I'm going to start throwing it. But it isn't necessary at all. Place ingredients etc (but do it quickly, otherwise the dough will stick to the peel) and put it in the oven. For me it takes between 6-10 minutes for the pizza to finish.
I based a lot of this on what Varasano suggested, and I omitted some details. If you want more detail, let me know.
This method is relatively unusual relative to the traditional recipe that is thrown around for chefs at home, but it's given me great results. My friends tell me they crave my pizza sometimes. I'm only saying this to reassure you that this can produce good pizza. If you want good pizza, you have to put in effort
Also, I've tried two methods of cooking the pizza. I have a special pizza pan that is full of holes on the bottom, this makes pretty tasty and crispy crust (With my original recipe). My other method is to put my pizza on parchment paper and put the parchment paper directly on the oven rack. I don't own a pizza stone, but since everyone's mentioning it, I might go and get one this week.
Firewaterword: I actually always use hotter water, I've been told this will make the yeast rise better. I'll give cold water a shot though.
Sunstrand: Recently I've been using a Kitchenaid Mixmaster to knead my dough, it just makes things so much easier, I'll try letting it knead much longer next time.
Bendery: Yeah, my pizza is very thin, I use a rolling pin to get it to that thinness. The reason I mentioned Durum Semolina before is that apparently it (As a high protein flour) or gluten make dough bond better, meaning it can be made thinner without using a rolling pin. If I try and stretch out my original recipe dough by hand, a lot of the time it will just rip. It tastes fine when it's done, it's more of a texture thing. I've also got a thing for trying new recipes.
Merouan: Thanks for the long post and the link. I've never tried that wet kneading or autolysing before, it's something I'll definitely try next time (I'm going to give it another shot in a few days). The highest my oven can go is about 500-550.
Do you have any thoughts on adding Durum Semolina or Gluten to the dough? It wasn't even something I had considered before, the biggest reason I had thought about it was watching an episode of Drive-ins, Diners and Dives on the food network they visited a famous pizza place, and one of the ingredients to the dough was Gluten, as Guy said, it helps the flour bond, and it will become stickier and chewier when cooked. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Edit: also, I got a kick out of your link, where it says:
Which is pretty much identical to my go-to recipe. I look forward to trying some of the techniques there.
It won't affect the consistency, but a great thing to do to give it a little extra oomph is add 1tsp of honey to the dough.
I don't have any fancy oven, do they sell rocks that you can put on a rack in there to cook pizza? (that won't cost my my left testicle and first born?)
I think they do, but you don't need it. Just put the crust on a normal cookie sheet or whatever. If you precook the crust first (roll it out, put it in the oven by itself until it starts to bubble, then take it out and add toppings/put back in oven), the final result will be plenty crispy and delicious.
Ive used there basic NY style recipe and it comes out really good. Look at the "Tom Lehmann's" recipes.
Those guys get into some serious hydration and other baking formulas that are well above me, but might be exactly what your looking for.
I'm not sure what "Best for Blending" flour is, but if it's not a bread flour, you should be using a bread flour. Bread flour has a higher gluten content than regular or all-purpose flour, so will yield a chewier texture. If you're talking about this stuff that is NOT the type of flour you should be using for making pizza, or any kind of bread.
For the yeast, are you actually using HOT water or warm? If the water is too hot it will kill the yeast. As mentioned in that page, around 105-115 Fahrenheit is where the water should be.
And you should definitely be using a pizza stone, it will yield a much better crust than a pan will.
For mixing, the method I use most often is about 3-4 minutes on low speed in a mixer with a bread hook attachment to mix the ingredients. After 3-4 minutes it should have come together into a single uniform looking mass, then mix on medium speed for another 3-4 minutes. Let rise for about an hour, fold it over itself once, then rise for another hour.
At that point, you should be able to just stretch it gently by hand to the desired size.
Edit: You may want to use a longer knead time for the low speed. The recipe I use has an overnight proof with a small amount of flour, water, and yeast, so it has had a much longer time to develop, and so requires less kneading.
You also may want to consider letting your dough rise in the refrigerator overnight. This will yield a crust with a much better flavor as the yeast has a longer, slower rise.
If when stretching the dough it rips, then you haven't worked the dough enough. Gluten isn't an ingredient (well it might be, but I've never added it to anything), it's something that forms in the dough as you develop it. Kneading the dough a lot is what makes gluten (actually kneading the dough a lot, but giving it rest periods too). I do a single overnight refridgerated rise.
My results with kneading using the kitchenaid have always been meh; it's a lot of work, but hand-kneading has always given the best results. Eventhough it's seldom perfectly round and can be kind of lumpy, hand stretching the dough also seems to give a better texture then rolling, and makes a better edge.
Bread flour like semolina, is high protein and will thus more readily make gluten when you work it. I dust the peel with semolina before stretching out the dough on it as then there a little grains of it on the crust.
This thread + Charcuterie thread= make your own sausage or pepperoni pizza.
Do a little digging around your town. Look for restaurant supply stores. I bet you that you'll have one closer to you than you think. You can pick up a peel from them at around 10-15 bucks. If that.
As for a pizza stone:
You'll be able to find these at places like Target, Sears, William-Sonoma, etc.. The WS version is going to cost you the most. If your local restaurant supply store doesn't have stones head to your local Home Depot, Lowes or Garden Supply store.
You're looking for a solid, untreated tile of stone. Won't cost you more than a couple of bucks.
I leave my pizza stone on the bottom rack of my oven all the time. It's an electric with wonky heating and the stone helps even out the hot spots.
Also, never ever crank the over to 500 and let it come to temperature and THEN stick the stone in. You'll crack it.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pizza-pizzas-recipe4/index.html
I also found this site:
http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm
It's pretty long, but has a lot of good info about the mechanics of dough.
Line your oven with firebricks, and use a pizza stone. Anything that will retain heat.
Edit for the recipe which I just found:
1 1/3 C warm water (make sure its filtered in some way, chlorine in tap water kills yeast)
1 packet active dry yeast
some sugar or honey (for the yeast + a little for flavor, maybe a tsp)...
2.5 C bread flour (I use King Arthur flour for everything)
1 C semolina
2 Tbsp olive oil
2 Tbsp kosher salt
3 Tbsp Vital Wheat Gluten (optional, i didnt use this, but i think it would help)
Mix the yeast and water and sugar/honey, and let bloom for 5-10min or so. Combine all the dry ingredients into the mixer. Add water/yeast mixture, and oil, and mix til it comes together, then switch to a bread hook and kneed for at least 15 minutes. (I had to split my dough into two parts to kneed it in my mixer) If you are doing it by hand, you'll probably have to knead it longer. You should be able to stretch the dough so its thing enough to see light thru without tearing it. Roll it up into a tight ball, and toss in a bowl, with a tad olive oil so it doesnt stick, cover with plastic wrap, and throw in the fridge for 18-24 hours.
The next day, take it out, divide in half, (refridgerate one half if you dont want to make up that much pizza). Press it down, then form it back into a tight ball, cover with towel and let rise for 30 min. Flour up your peel. After the 30 min, flatten the ball, and start shaping it into pizza shape: nice and thin in the middle, with a decent edge for the crust. Let rise on the peel for another 30 minutes covered with a towel. Olive oil the outside of the crust (make sure you can shake the crust around at this point), then put your toppings on. Cook on the stone in a 500 degree F oven (preheated of course) for 7 minutes. Let rest 3 min before cutting.
Thanks to Merouran and his link, I have made by far the best tasting pizza I have ever made.
It was absolutely fantastic. It was thin, crispy and yet chewy. Again, best I've ever made.
Here's the method I used.
I made a thing called a poolish or bread starter, which appears to be 50/50 water and flour with 6g of yeast in it. A lot of places recommend this sit as is for up to 24 hours in a cool place like the fridge. I didn't have that long, and really only left it for about 3-4 hours in the fridge. It was already fermenting nicely though and giving off a great aroma.
I put this and about 50% Brita filtered water and 50% flour along with 6g of salt and the poolish in my mixmaster and mixed it on low for about 5 minutes until it was well mixed, Then left it for ~20 minutes. The Autolysing process.
Then I began to use the dough hook to mix it for about 5-6 minutes on medium speed until it started to get thick, then began to add in some flour until it became a bit more solid and less liquidy. Total time for kneading in the mix master was about 10 minutes. Then I laid it out on my cutting board, gave the outside a slight flour coating to reshape it without sticking and divided it into 3 sections. I put each section in an olive oil coated Tupperware container and put it in the fridge for 24 hours before making it today.
Again it was fantastic, definitely a recipe I will use again.
Here are some pictures of the pie: