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No, honestly, she went from a mousey, friendly, excellent housemate into fucking Ally McCunt overnight.
I have tried to be cool, calm and polite in response to her wacky texts, and she's responded reasonably every time. But then a few days later, she'll send an even more impatient, threatening text message. It's been like this since she advised us she was going. In one message I specifically asked that she exercise some patience and chill out; she responded saying she would chill out, and gave me a forwarding address for the bond to be sent to when it was ready. Then out of the blue - court action unless I get my money nownownownownow!
As per the OP: She agreed to contribute to the household bond, since she was going on the lease. So she effectively reimbursed us for the bond we'd already paid. So, we did put her money away. That is, we'd already paid her share. Does ... does that make sense?
But, yeah, it turns out she's not on the lease because my property manager didn't follow-up, so now we have no contracts or receipts or anything.
1. You are correct, you were within your rights to spend her bond money. "Her" money is part of that original bond held by the landlord, ostensibly with interest.
2. Her not being on the lease is in your favor, not hers. That means she's technically owed effectively squat.
3. It should really be the landlord's discretion whether to pay it back to her or not. He should do a walkthrough of her area.
4. She doesn't have a goddamn leg to stand on, so stop freaking out. Stop stressing. She can't do ANYTHING.
So, am I reading this right? The landlord was supposed to put this lady on the lease but never did? And if your ex roommate was on the lease wouldn't that make this whole situation a lot less messy?
IANAL, but her signing to be added to the lease would mean she agrees to the lease terms.
If there are any free legal aid options for you, I'd pursue it because it sounds to me like you're getting screwed when its really your landlord's fault.
It sounds like he's making much ado about nothing, as a bunch of empty threats aren't exactly firm legal grounds for anything
If you're very hard up for the money tell her she can have it back when you get yours back--at the end of your lease. That's the deal. That's legally acceptable to anyone.
Well I can be prone to drama, but the fact I'm getting somewhat polar opposite reactions in this thread is one of the things that's bothering me. It's not particularly clear cut where I stand as the accidental-land-lord.
But I think I'll just contact her and say we'll pay her X on X day, and so on and so on until she has her bond.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
edited July 2009
My understanding of this thread so far is that they can't just give her a bunch of money and shouldn't have to because the LANDLORD (read: not the OP) ACTUALLY HAS THE MONEY, and everyone's bond is in one account that the LANDLORD has, and they didn't really have to worry about this sort of thing because she was supposed to stay for the whole year and be on the lease and everyone just failed. Had your roommate and your landlord not been so fucking terrible, they would have both had all this sorted and understood before any of it became an issue.
Never let anyone move in again who hasn't been added to the lease. Make sure you see their name on the lease before you take payment or let them move so much as a pair of underwear into your place. This shouldn't be your problem and you aren't supposed to have to be subletting despite the fact that your landlord has decided to make it your problem.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold money until your landlord determines there are no damages. I would say to her that you are just waiting for that simple look over, only you're having trouble getting the landlord on the phone to deal with it. You want to give her her money back as much as she wants it back, so maybe she could help you try to get in contact with someone who can do this inspection? Once it's done she can get exactly what she's owed (which honestly should probably be nothing since she cut out early in the first place.. if she had been on the lease she probably would have been told to fuck off for breaking contract) and you can never speak to each other again.
In the mean time, get the money together, all of it you possibly can. Get the landlord in as soon as possible, have the inspection done, find out what the damages are. If there are damages, get a signed statement saying exactly what those damages will cost to fix, and give her her money back minus those damages.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
0
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
The OP is getting TL;DR'd. The bond is with the landlord, but the transitory roommate didn't join up with the rest of them - so her money didn't get posted to the bond directly. Instead, she paid them to buy out the roommate who left. I wonder if there's case law on point? In any event, to a small claims court, the lack of a written contract is likely going to be immaterial unless you're denying she ever lived there in the first place. It's her money - once the landlord clears the room for damages you owe the money back to her. But not until then.
This might be beside the point here, but at least here in the US...or at least, where I live, you don't get your money back from your deposit NOW NOW NOW. Usually in the lease it says right there that you'll get it back "within 30 days" or "within 60 days" or whatever.
I'm just pointing this out because it sounds like she's being really unreasonable and even if everything had gone through with her being on the lease, her staying until the end, etc, she couldn't reasonable expect the check to magically appear the next week.
No, honestly, she went from a mousey, friendly, excellent housemate into fucking Ally McCunt overnight.
I have tried to be cool, calm and polite in response to her wacky texts, and she's responded reasonably every time. But then a few days later, she'll send an even more impatient, threatening text message. It's been like this since she advised us she was going. In one message I specifically asked that she exercise some patience and chill out; she responded saying she would chill out, and gave me a forwarding address for the bond to be sent to when it was ready. Then out of the blue - court action unless I get my money nownownownownow!
You will likely lose in court since you have nothing signed. However, just because there's no formal agreement doesn't mean there was an informal one with certain expectations from both parties.
You should reassure her that the landlord will inspect the property and then she'll get her money back. CALL HER, don't send any fucking texts. She can't reasonably expect that you are going to return her money 2 days after she moves out, when she hasn't even given the key up yet. Any situation where you're on a lease it will take a couple weeks to get your deposit back.
Call your landlord and get them to inspect ASAP.
tsmvengy on
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
edited July 2009
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't give her jack, or shit if jack left town, until you have the key to the place in your hot little hand. For anyone to think otherwise no matter what else is going on is completely ridiculous.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
You will likely lose in court since you have nothing signed. However, just because there's no formal agreement doesn't mean there was an informal one with certain expectations from both parties.
You should reassure her that the landlord will inspect the property and then she'll get her money back. CALL HER, don't send any fucking texts. She can't reasonably expect that you are going to return her money 2 days after she moves out, when she hasn't even given the key up yet. Any situation where you're on a lease it will take a couple weeks to get your deposit back.
Call your landlord and get them to inspect ASAP.
Yeah this is exactly WRONG
You will likely WIN in court because you have nothing signed. If the money was meant for deposit, and she was to be added to the lease, then it is her funds that is part of the deposit money on the apartment - which means she can expect it back when the lease is up. Then and only then might she have a shot in hell of winning in court.
TokyoRaver on
0
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
OP: I suggest you listen to the lawyer who posted in this thread if you're looking for advice on the legal side of things, instead of people like the guy above me* who watch Judge Judy and think they're ready to write the bar exam.
You will likely lose in court since you have nothing signed. However, just because there's no formal agreement doesn't mean there was an informal one with certain expectations from both parties.
You should reassure her that the landlord will inspect the property and then she'll get her money back. CALL HER, don't send any fucking texts. She can't reasonably expect that you are going to return her money 2 days after she moves out, when she hasn't even given the key up yet. Any situation where you're on a lease it will take a couple weeks to get your deposit back.
Call your landlord and get them to inspect ASAP.
Yeah this is exactly WRONG
You will likely WIN in court because you have nothing signed. If the money was meant for deposit, and she was to be added to the lease, then it is her funds that is part of the deposit money on the apartment - which means she can expect it back when the lease is up. Then and only then might she have a shot in hell of winning in court.
OP: I suggest you listen to the lawyer who posted in this thread if you're looking for advice on the legal side of things, instead of people like the guy above me* who watch Judge Judy and think they're ready to write the bar exam.
*Edit: Or the guy below me
Not for nothing, but I deal with this shit all (and I mean ALL) the fucking time...I'm a loan officer in New York City, where tenant's rights are very strong.
Oh, and my uncle is an attorney that exclusively represents tenants.
Oh, and in a case where you're not on the lease and are effectively an illegal sublet, your rights are as close to nil as you can get without actually having no rights, provided you aren't on welfare (where a whole bunch of other laws kick in)
...but seriously, a copy of a lease which she signed can likely be produced, regardless of whether they ultimately added her or not. The money was meant to be a security deposit, which means if it's anyone's to refund it's the landlord's...the money that she paid in was reimbursing them for the expense that they incurred on her behalf when they paid the security deposit.
That's how they'll look at it in court. How do I know? Ah, because I've been through it. Personally.
OP: I suggest you listen to the lawyer who posted in this thread if you're looking for advice on the legal side of things, instead of people like the guy above me* who watch Judge Judy and think they're ready to write the bar exam.
*Edit: Or the guy below me
The lawyer who admits to knowing nothing about landlord/tenant laws in Australia in the first line? I wouldn't call this more reliable than any other post here.
OP: I suggest you listen to the lawyer who posted in this thread if you're looking for advice on the legal side of things, instead of people like the guy above me* who watch Judge Judy and think they're ready to write the bar exam.
*Edit: Or the guy below me
The lawyer who admits to knowing nothing about landlord/tenant laws in Australia in the first line? I wouldn't call this more reliable than any other post here.
While I appreciate Figgy's faith in my knowledge, my opinion on this matter (or any random legal matter that should happen to crop up on the H/A Forums) is not the absolute final word of law, unless the poster happens to be coming from Southwestern Pennsylvania. Without going into specifics, something as simple as Landlord/Tenant laws and regulations vary wildly in different countries, states, towns, providences, etc. I would never state with absolute certainty the law in place x without first spending 2+ hours researching it. My standing advice to any person with a legal problem is to always consult a qualified, licensed attorney in your area.
However, in my experience with other subletters and landlords involved in similar situations, the OP will likely lose in court. Basically, the former roommate paid a security bond, lived in the house, now has left, and it appears that no significant damage was done and there is no written contract with regards to when/how she is entitled to her share of the bond when she leaves. The Judge is going to say that the OP and his roommate need to come up with what she paid as a security bond because she won't be living there, and based on the OPs posts, she's didn't do any significant damage to the building and would be entitled to a return of her share of the security bond eventually. Since the OP represented to her that this was a security bond, and she can’t damage the property after she leaves, she gets it back. At best, maybe the OP can make the argument since she hasn’t returned the key she could enter & damage the property in the future and/or the Landlord hasn’t inspected her share of the residence to ensure there was no damage, but those are some seriously weak-sister arguments.
The OP stands a much better chance of trying to make a deal with the girl now, and maybe get a little bit out of it in return, than try to stand on some convoluted legalese that the Judge/Magistrate is not going to want to hear anyways. It always pays to look like you’ve tried to work out your problems reasonably with the other side and are being forced to court, instead of taking a hard-line stance or playing Perry Mason. Judges of all ilk have very little patience with wannabe lawyers who come into court relying on asinine legal principals they don’t fully comprehend.
To make it simple, my advice to the OP is to send this girl a letter (an actual letter, not a text or e-mail) stating that you can give her x of the bond now and the rest in x days, so long as she returns her key and helps clean up the mess she left behind. Make sure you state she is entitled to all of the bond, but you cannot pay it all right this second. That way, if she really wants to take this to court, she looks like the irrational nutjob, not you.
CoJoeTheLawyer on
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Bond money (at least in WA) is kept with the housing department of WA and it is only necessary to deliver the bond in a timely matter.
Timely matter in this case is 4 to 8 weeks for bond reimbursement at the time for application. Application occurs when you hand over the keys to the land owner. (I have had this argument before)
Tell her that she can apply for the bond when she gives her keys back and the process will be run through once the landlord can look over the property to ensure no damage has been done.
If she starts blustering that she will be taken to court point out that (there probably is) a clause in her lease (which she is party to regardless) saying that it is a requirement that all rooms be steam cleaned at the end of the lease and you will charge her for that and additional rent until she hands over the keys to the place.
OP: I suggest you listen to the lawyer who posted in this thread if you're looking for advice on the legal side of things, instead of people like the guy above me* who watch Judge Judy and think they're ready to write the bar exam.
*Edit: Or the guy below me
I'm not trying to say I'm an authority on the matter even though I realize that my opinion comes across like I'm trying to state fact. You really should speak to a lawyer. Only they can tell you anything with reasonable certainty. I will say that if you told her you were cool with her moving out you should just find a way to give her the money and consider it a lesson learned.
So, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with CoJoe. Not on his points of law (because he's probably right about that), but on what I would do in this situation (note: IANAL, and this is not legal advice; I'm just going to tell you what I would do in this situation). If it were me:
The next time she texted me, I would text her with "if you contact me one more time, I'm calling the police, and filing a harassment report. You'll get your bond back when the two of us do. Drop your key off in the mailbox (or with a third party, like the manager) within 24 hours, or we're going to get the locks changed and deduct that cost from your portion of the bond. If you don't like having to wait, fine; we'll see you in court."
Then, if she were to try to contact me again, I would report her to the police for harassment. Getting that key back or the locks changed is vital, because if she's this crazy, she will use it to fuck with you. The thing about people like this is that they're frequently all bluff and bluster, and a great way to get them to shut the fuck up is to call their bluff Maybe she would win in court, maybe she wouldn't, but if she never actually takes you to court, it doesn't really matter. And if she files, they'll probably give her a court date down the line somewhat, which will give you some time to get some money together so you can afford to write her a check to make her go away.
Also, what, exactly does this "tenant application" she filled out say? Because it's possible that the thing would be considered a written, binding contract even if she were never added to the lease. And if that's the case, she can just fuck right the hell off.
Thanatos on
0
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
I'm getting the impression that she isn't so much crazy as hard up for cash and she knows full well the OP likely isn't going to pay her easily.
He's already said she knows he doesn't have the money, so I'm thinking she's being persistent in order to try and get some money before he changes his mind.
Re: "Illegal subletting" - Back when I was subletting, they don't need to be on the lease. They are effectively your tenants, not the landlords, and they would go on your own sublet lease that you make up. Any damages they cause are your own responsibility. This was not a sublet situation. He was basically taking on another roommate who wasn't on the lease (and never ended up on the lease) She was his responsibility.
And Tokyo, I'd much rather take the advice of a lawyer from a different country than someone whose uncle is a lawyer from a different country. Just saying.
And Tokyo, I'd much rather take the advice of a lawyer from a different country than someone whose uncle is a lawyer from a different country. Just saying.
And yet all the same, if I ever see you shouting down someone else's advice as worthless based on your glorious opinion again, I'll hit you with a serious infraction. It's not up to you whether or not CoJoe or Tokyo are making good points, neither are legally qualified in the local jurisdiction of the poster and both make good points relevant to the parts of the country they are from. It's up to the OP to consider the points they both raise and make the decision regarding whose advice to follow, you don't get to play meta-mod and say whose opinion is valid and whose is not.
And seriously, I'd consider Than's advice. It's not steeped in legalese, but I betcha it'd work.
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Thanks guys. I hope I'm not giving anyone the impression that I want to keep the bond; I really don't. Figgy, I'm a pretty reasonable dude, we're not trying to screw her. She upped and left months before she'd said she would so we were left in a shakey financial spot. If we'd had the cash, she could have had the bond back, no problem. Really, she left 1 working day ago, and is already hopping up and down for legal action, so I was keen to get an understanding of where I would stand if I can't deliver the bond 'immediately'.
Thanks for the area-specific advice Blaket, and Than, I really should have gone down that route to begin with rather than trying to calm her down and get along, and just played hardball, as it were.
As luck would have it, we've found a new housemate who is keen to move in very soon, bond and all. So I've told her she can have her bond back when the new housemate coughs up, which will be in a few days. In the mean time I've advised no bond until we get the key. She seems okay with this, but I don't doubt I'll get another insane text message between now and then, just for consistency.
So, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with CoJoe. Not on his points of law (because he's probably right about that), but on what I would do in this situation (note: IANAL, and this is not legal advice; I'm just going to tell you what I would do in this situation). If it were me:
The next time she texted me, I would text her with "if you contact me one more time, I'm calling the police, and filing a harassment report. You'll get your bond back when the two of us do. Drop your key off in the mailbox (or with a third party, like the manager) within 24 hours, or we're going to get the locks changed and deduct that cost from your portion of the bond. If you don't like having to wait, fine; we'll see you in court."
Then, if she were to try to contact me again, I would report her to the police for harassment. Getting that key back or the locks changed is vital, because if she's this crazy, she will use it to fuck with you. The thing about people like this is that they're frequently all bluff and bluster, and a great way to get them to shut the fuck up is to call their bluff Maybe she would win in court, maybe she wouldn't, but if she never actually takes you to court, it doesn't really matter. And if she files, they'll probably give her a court date down the line somewhat, which will give you some time to get some money together so you can afford to write her a check to make her go away.
Also, what, exactly does this "tenant application" she filled out say? Because it's possible that the thing would be considered a written, binding contract even if she were never added to the lease. And if that's the case, she can just fuck right the hell off.
From hearing a description of her and her father, they seem perfectly willing to actually sue. Which is a big headache, best avoided. Thanatos is right - if you can threaten this woman away, feel free to try, but I don't think it's likely. Furthermore, I don't think that the OP is getting his deposit back any time soon - he's not leaving for another 4 months. I don't think she's as crazy as you think she is, either, Thanatos. She moved out and she wants her money - I don't blame her in the least, even if her execution is iffy.
It sounds like this is resolved b/c you found another renter, but in the future, my advice :
The first step in resolving this issue is to stop texting, and instead talk, preferably in person, like normal adults in a neutral location like a cafe.
My second piece of advice is to avoid getting into this problem in the first place, 1st by) getting stuff in writing, and 2) holding them to it. if you're subletting, you should require 1 month's notice or a replacement tenant acceptable to you before you let someone stop paying rent, so you're not put in this very position again.
Good advice, which will be heeded in future. Although, yeah, we weren't supposed to be subletting. The landlord specifically said we weren't allowed, so we really thought all this would have been covered.
Posts
I have tried to be cool, calm and polite in response to her wacky texts, and she's responded reasonably every time. But then a few days later, she'll send an even more impatient, threatening text message. It's been like this since she advised us she was going. In one message I specifically asked that she exercise some patience and chill out; she responded saying she would chill out, and gave me a forwarding address for the bond to be sent to when it was ready. Then out of the blue - court action unless I get my money nownownownownow!
Urgh.
1. You are correct, you were within your rights to spend her bond money. "Her" money is part of that original bond held by the landlord, ostensibly with interest.
2. Her not being on the lease is in your favor, not hers. That means she's technically owed effectively squat.
3. It should really be the landlord's discretion whether to pay it back to her or not. He should do a walkthrough of her area.
4. She doesn't have a goddamn leg to stand on, so stop freaking out. Stop stressing. She can't do ANYTHING.
IANAL, but her signing to be added to the lease would mean she agrees to the lease terms.
If there are any free legal aid options for you, I'd pursue it because it sounds to me like you're getting screwed when its really your landlord's fault.
If you're very hard up for the money tell her she can have it back when you get yours back--at the end of your lease. That's the deal. That's legally acceptable to anyone.
But I think I'll just contact her and say we'll pay her X on X day, and so on and so on until she has her bond.
Never let anyone move in again who hasn't been added to the lease. Make sure you see their name on the lease before you take payment or let them move so much as a pair of underwear into your place. This shouldn't be your problem and you aren't supposed to have to be subletting despite the fact that your landlord has decided to make it your problem.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold money until your landlord determines there are no damages. I would say to her that you are just waiting for that simple look over, only you're having trouble getting the landlord on the phone to deal with it. You want to give her her money back as much as she wants it back, so maybe she could help you try to get in contact with someone who can do this inspection? Once it's done she can get exactly what she's owed (which honestly should probably be nothing since she cut out early in the first place.. if she had been on the lease she probably would have been told to fuck off for breaking contract) and you can never speak to each other again.
In the mean time, get the money together, all of it you possibly can. Get the landlord in as soon as possible, have the inspection done, find out what the damages are. If there are damages, get a signed statement saying exactly what those damages will cost to fix, and give her her money back minus those damages.
I'm just pointing this out because it sounds like she's being really unreasonable and even if everything had gone through with her being on the lease, her staying until the end, etc, she couldn't reasonable expect the check to magically appear the next week.
She needs coke money.
You should reassure her that the landlord will inspect the property and then she'll get her money back. CALL HER, don't send any fucking texts. She can't reasonably expect that you are going to return her money 2 days after she moves out, when she hasn't even given the key up yet. Any situation where you're on a lease it will take a couple weeks to get your deposit back.
Call your landlord and get them to inspect ASAP.
Yeah this is exactly WRONG
You will likely WIN in court because you have nothing signed. If the money was meant for deposit, and she was to be added to the lease, then it is her funds that is part of the deposit money on the apartment - which means she can expect it back when the lease is up. Then and only then might she have a shot in hell of winning in court.
*Edit: Or the guy below me
Edited for useless opinion.
Not for nothing, but I deal with this shit all (and I mean ALL) the fucking time...I'm a loan officer in New York City, where tenant's rights are very strong.
Oh, and my uncle is an attorney that exclusively represents tenants.
Oh, and in a case where you're not on the lease and are effectively an illegal sublet, your rights are as close to nil as you can get without actually having no rights, provided you aren't on welfare (where a whole bunch of other laws kick in)
...but seriously, a copy of a lease which she signed can likely be produced, regardless of whether they ultimately added her or not. The money was meant to be a security deposit, which means if it's anyone's to refund it's the landlord's...the money that she paid in was reimbursing them for the expense that they incurred on her behalf when they paid the security deposit.
That's how they'll look at it in court. How do I know? Ah, because I've been through it. Personally.
So please, feel free to shut up.
The lawyer who admits to knowing nothing about landlord/tenant laws in Australia in the first line? I wouldn't call this more reliable than any other post here.
While I appreciate Figgy's faith in my knowledge, my opinion on this matter (or any random legal matter that should happen to crop up on the H/A Forums) is not the absolute final word of law, unless the poster happens to be coming from Southwestern Pennsylvania. Without going into specifics, something as simple as Landlord/Tenant laws and regulations vary wildly in different countries, states, towns, providences, etc. I would never state with absolute certainty the law in place x without first spending 2+ hours researching it. My standing advice to any person with a legal problem is to always consult a qualified, licensed attorney in your area.
However, in my experience with other subletters and landlords involved in similar situations, the OP will likely lose in court. Basically, the former roommate paid a security bond, lived in the house, now has left, and it appears that no significant damage was done and there is no written contract with regards to when/how she is entitled to her share of the bond when she leaves. The Judge is going to say that the OP and his roommate need to come up with what she paid as a security bond because she won't be living there, and based on the OPs posts, she's didn't do any significant damage to the building and would be entitled to a return of her share of the security bond eventually. Since the OP represented to her that this was a security bond, and she can’t damage the property after she leaves, she gets it back. At best, maybe the OP can make the argument since she hasn’t returned the key she could enter & damage the property in the future and/or the Landlord hasn’t inspected her share of the residence to ensure there was no damage, but those are some seriously weak-sister arguments.
The OP stands a much better chance of trying to make a deal with the girl now, and maybe get a little bit out of it in return, than try to stand on some convoluted legalese that the Judge/Magistrate is not going to want to hear anyways. It always pays to look like you’ve tried to work out your problems reasonably with the other side and are being forced to court, instead of taking a hard-line stance or playing Perry Mason. Judges of all ilk have very little patience with wannabe lawyers who come into court relying on asinine legal principals they don’t fully comprehend.
To make it simple, my advice to the OP is to send this girl a letter (an actual letter, not a text or e-mail) stating that you can give her x of the bond now and the rest in x days, so long as she returns her key and helps clean up the mess she left behind. Make sure you state she is entitled to all of the bond, but you cannot pay it all right this second. That way, if she really wants to take this to court, she looks like the irrational nutjob, not you.
Timely matter in this case is 4 to 8 weeks for bond reimbursement at the time for application. Application occurs when you hand over the keys to the land owner. (I have had this argument before)
Tell her that she can apply for the bond when she gives her keys back and the process will be run through once the landlord can look over the property to ensure no damage has been done.
If she starts blustering that she will be taken to court point out that (there probably is) a clause in her lease (which she is party to regardless) saying that it is a requirement that all rooms be steam cleaned at the end of the lease and you will charge her for that and additional rent until she hands over the keys to the place.
This should make her leave you alone.
You still need to pay her the money though.
Satans..... hints.....
I'm not trying to say I'm an authority on the matter even though I realize that my opinion comes across like I'm trying to state fact. You really should speak to a lawyer. Only they can tell you anything with reasonable certainty. I will say that if you told her you were cool with her moving out you should just find a way to give her the money and consider it a lesson learned.
The next time she texted me, I would text her with "if you contact me one more time, I'm calling the police, and filing a harassment report. You'll get your bond back when the two of us do. Drop your key off in the mailbox (or with a third party, like the manager) within 24 hours, or we're going to get the locks changed and deduct that cost from your portion of the bond. If you don't like having to wait, fine; we'll see you in court."
Then, if she were to try to contact me again, I would report her to the police for harassment. Getting that key back or the locks changed is vital, because if she's this crazy, she will use it to fuck with you. The thing about people like this is that they're frequently all bluff and bluster, and a great way to get them to shut the fuck up is to call their bluff Maybe she would win in court, maybe she wouldn't, but if she never actually takes you to court, it doesn't really matter. And if she files, they'll probably give her a court date down the line somewhat, which will give you some time to get some money together so you can afford to write her a check to make her go away.
Also, what, exactly does this "tenant application" she filled out say? Because it's possible that the thing would be considered a written, binding contract even if she were never added to the lease. And if that's the case, she can just fuck right the hell off.
He's already said she knows he doesn't have the money, so I'm thinking she's being persistent in order to try and get some money before he changes his mind.
Re: "Illegal subletting" - Back when I was subletting, they don't need to be on the lease. They are effectively your tenants, not the landlords, and they would go on your own sublet lease that you make up. Any damages they cause are your own responsibility. This was not a sublet situation. He was basically taking on another roommate who wasn't on the lease (and never ended up on the lease) She was his responsibility.
And Tokyo, I'd much rather take the advice of a lawyer from a different country than someone whose uncle is a lawyer from a different country. Just saying.
And yet all the same, if I ever see you shouting down someone else's advice as worthless based on your glorious opinion again, I'll hit you with a serious infraction. It's not up to you whether or not CoJoe or Tokyo are making good points, neither are legally qualified in the local jurisdiction of the poster and both make good points relevant to the parts of the country they are from. It's up to the OP to consider the points they both raise and make the decision regarding whose advice to follow, you don't get to play meta-mod and say whose opinion is valid and whose is not.
And seriously, I'd consider Than's advice. It's not steeped in legalese, but I betcha it'd work.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Thanks for the area-specific advice Blaket, and Than, I really should have gone down that route to begin with rather than trying to calm her down and get along, and just played hardball, as it were.
As luck would have it, we've found a new housemate who is keen to move in very soon, bond and all. So I've told her she can have her bond back when the new housemate coughs up, which will be in a few days. In the mean time I've advised no bond until we get the key. She seems okay with this, but I don't doubt I'll get another insane text message between now and then, just for consistency.
From hearing a description of her and her father, they seem perfectly willing to actually sue. Which is a big headache, best avoided. Thanatos is right - if you can threaten this woman away, feel free to try, but I don't think it's likely. Furthermore, I don't think that the OP is getting his deposit back any time soon - he's not leaving for another 4 months. I don't think she's as crazy as you think she is, either, Thanatos. She moved out and she wants her money - I don't blame her in the least, even if her execution is iffy.
It sounds like this is resolved b/c you found another renter, but in the future, my advice :
The first step in resolving this issue is to stop texting, and instead talk, preferably in person, like normal adults in a neutral location like a cafe.
My second piece of advice is to avoid getting into this problem in the first place, 1st by) getting stuff in writing, and 2) holding them to it. if you're subletting, you should require 1 month's notice or a replacement tenant acceptable to you before you let someone stop paying rent, so you're not put in this very position again.
But yes, good advice!