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Pre-Fight Debate: Bracket 13

Doctor DoomDoctor Doom Registered User regular
edited December 2006 in Graphic Violence
Match A:

200px-Shivaoyl.PNG

Lady Shiva

Powers: Literate in body language to the point she often knows what an opponent will do before they do it, master martial artist

Equipment: 15 throwing knives, katana, semi-automatic pistol

VS.

Classicgreengoblin.JPG

Green Goblin

Powers: Genius-level intellect, Goblin-themed weapons and paraphernalia, Superhuman strength, stamina and endurance, regenerative healing factor

Equipment: Spear-tipped Glider, 12 Pumpkin Bombs

Environment: Attilan

Match B:

250px-Classicx31.png

Mastermind

Powers: Psionic illusions

Vs.

225px-4833_400x600.jpg

Gentleman Ghost

Powers: Spectral ability to turn invisible and incorporeal.
Renders any body part who touches him deathly cold.
Adequate marksman with antique flintlock pistols.

Equipment: two antique flintlock pistols.

Environment: The Dreaming, Morpheus' realm.

Doctor Doom on
«13

Posts

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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Is Gentleman Ghost dead?

    Anyway, if he's supernatural, I don't see Mastermind's powers working on him.

    august on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Goblin is so fucked

    Fencingsax on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Im not too familiar with both of these settings, anyone care to give me a little breakdown on them, please? Ill be your super bestest friend.

    Marathon on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Im not too familiar with both of these settings, anyone care to give me a little breakdown on them, please? Ill be your super bestest friend.

    Attilan is the Inhuman's realm, currently on the "Blue Area" of the moon that has oxygen

    The Dreaming is Morpheus' domain, from Gaiman's Sandman. Basically, it's very fucked up.

    Fencingsax on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    Regina Fong on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Im not too familiar with both of these settings, anyone care to give me a little breakdown on them, please? Ill be your super bestest friend.

    Attilan is the Inhuman's realm, currently on the "Blue Area" of the moon that has oxygen

    The Dreaming is Morpheus' domain, from Gaiman's Sandman. Basically, it's very fucked up.

    Thank you, new best friend.

    Marathon on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jeepguy wrote:
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    For one thing, it'll be hard to distinguish the ghost from the rest of the fucked upped-ness of the place. Also, it'll be hard to tell where The Dreaming ends and Mastermind's illusions begin

    Fencingsax on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jeepguy wrote:
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    The problem with Gentleman Ghost is how you hurt him? I mean, he's a ghost. Can you physically hurt him?

    But physical fights are not Masterminds deal anyway, so my guess would be that he would just use his illusions to drive Mr. Ghost crazy.

    Marathon on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Goblin is so fucked
    Nope!

    deadonthestreet on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Goblin is so fucked
    Nope!

    Look, Shiva can give Batman a run for his money. Batman could take Spider-Man out. Spidey has beaten Gobby (albeit barely sometimes) several times. Therefore, Shiva will beat Gobby. I mean, this is the sort of shit she's trained for

    Fencingsax on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    jeepguy wrote:
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    The problem with Gentleman Ghost is how you hurt him? I mean, he's a ghost. Can you physically hurt him?

    But physical fights are not Masterminds deal anyway, so my guess would be that he would just use his illusions to drive Mr. Ghost crazy.

    Yeah, pretty much. I think if Mastermind can render an oponent completely impotent and striking helplessely at figments then that's a "win".

    Regina Fong on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Gentleman Ghost doesn't have a brain and Mastermind's illusions aren't cast over an environment but rather sent to each individual's minds, as far as I know. Since there's no precedent for telepaths being able to contact the dead telepathically, I doubt Mastermind can even affect the Gent.

    And even if he could, what could he possibly do to a dead guy?

    robosagogo on
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    SkulloSkullo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Skullo on
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jeepguy wrote:
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    See, I dunno. Mastermind can only project illusions INTO the heads of people. You know, normal humans and mutants with squishy living brains.

    The Dreaming MIGHT let him do more, but I'm not really sure. It depends on where they are, I guess. I don't think The Dreaming is just a place where you can mold reality to your whim (unless you're Morpheus) although I guess I can see someone saying that somehow Mastermind might. Personally, I vote for meh.

    august on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    august wrote:
    jeepguy wrote:
    The battlefield gives Mastermind an advantage, I think.

    See, I dunno. Mastermind can only project illusions INTO the heads of people. You know, normal humans and mutants with squishy living brains.

    The Dreaming MIGHT let him do more, but I'm not really sure. It depends on where they are, I guess. I don't think The Dreaming is just a place where you can mold reality to your whim (unless you're Morpheus) although I guess I can see someone saying that somehow Mastermind might. Personally, I vote for meh.

    The Dreaming is molded to Dream's whims. I think if other people started fucking around, we would see an Endless come down hard

    Fencingsax on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The Dreaming will probably cause Mastermind more problems than his own illusions ever could.

    robosagogo on
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    JerikTelorianJerikTelorian Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Heh. Dream could totally join this fight, and it would be over like that. Didn't he say that he wields the power to kill people who are screwing with The Dreaming? This fight would be over fast if they weren't careful.

    By the way, Skullo, I like the avatar :)

    JerikTelorian on
    SteamID -- JerikTelorian
    XBL: LiquidSnake2061
    Shade wrote: »
    Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.

    I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Didn't he say that he wields the power to kill people who are screwing with The Dreaming?
    So Dream will kill Dr. Doom and then kill all of us for encouraging him?

    robosagogo on
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    exitexit Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Basically Mervyn just guns them both the hell down and then goes off to get trashed.


    Also, how do you hurt a ghost?

    exit on
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    Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    They're not fighting in the actual environments, are they? I thought Doom just had the equivalent of danger rooms in his castle.

    Adaemus1sf on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    exit wrote:
    Also, how do you hurt a ghost?

    This is the big question, how does he get beat in the comics?

    Marathon on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Virgins.

    deadonthestreet on
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    exitexit Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Slimer should've been in this as well

    SPECTRAL FINALE MATCH

    exit on
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    SnoogySnoogy Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Man, I barely know anything about Lady Shiva and I still know Gobby is severely dead. Sure, he will turn out to be alive years later, negateing what was a truely classic scene, but no way does he walk off with this one.

    I can't add anything to the other fight. Mastermind needs minds I don't think ghosts count as haveing those

    Snoogy on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Skullo wrote:
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Mastermind is pretty fucking strong. He's the guy that..I don't think I need spoilers but just in case (it's x-men spoiler):

    [spoiler:64dd63fb80]makes the phoenix (Jean Grey) go insane and turn into the dark phoenix. Basically he tricks the most powerful being in the universe into being the most evil thing ever. Besides that I don't know what all he's done. Isn't he the guy who's been fucking up the Astonishing X-men?[/spoiler:64dd63fb80]

    Langly on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Snoogy wrote:
    Man, I barely know anything about Lady Shiva and I still know Gobby is severely dead. Sure, he will turn out to be alive years later, negateing what was a truely classic scene, but no way does he walk off with this one.

    I can't add anything to the other fight. Mastermind needs minds I don't think ghosts count as haveing those

    Well Gentleman Ghost must have some sort of consciousness and thought process of some sort. Mastermind works on a person's mind, not just on the physical brain as far as I know.

    Gentleman Ghost has a mind, just not a brain in the normal terms.

    Marathon on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Yeah, I think Ghost being a....ghost would probably keep Mastermind from fucking with him.

    Meanwhile the enviroment fucks with them both, but Ghost is probably much more mentally prepared for this type of thing, being dead and all.

    Furu on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    Skullo wrote:
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Mastermind is pretty fucking strong. He's the guy that..I don't think I need spoilers but just in case (it's x-men spoiler):

    [spoiler:c6ca93efb7]makes the phoenix (Jean Grey) go insane and turn into the dark phoenix. Basically he tricks the most powerful being in the universe into being the most evil thing ever. Besides that I don't know what all he's done. Isn't he the guy who's been fucking up the Astonishing X-men?[/spoiler:c6ca93efb7]

    I'm pretty sure that was retconned far enough back for it not to count.

    Fencingsax on
  • Options
    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    Skullo wrote:
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Mastermind is pretty fucking strong. He's the guy that..I don't think I need spoilers but just in case (it's x-men spoiler):

    [spoiler:b801931501]makes the phoenix (Jean Grey) go insane and turn into the dark phoenix. Basically he tricks the most powerful being in the universe into being the most evil thing ever. Besides that I don't know what all he's done. Isn't he the guy who's been fucking up the Astonishing X-men?[/spoiler:b801931501]

    [spoiler:b801931501] Uh... no, Mastermind has'nt been in AXM at all.. all the funky mind control has been courtesy of Cassandra Nova.[/spoiler:b801931501]

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Langly wrote:
    Skullo wrote:
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Mastermind is pretty fucking strong. He's the guy that..I don't think I need spoilers but just in case (it's x-men spoiler):

    [spoiler:9e5b7a3f37]makes the phoenix (Jean Grey) go insane and turn into the dark phoenix. Basically he tricks the most powerful being in the universe into being the most evil thing ever. Besides that I don't know what all he's done. Isn't he the guy who's been fucking up the Astonishing X-men?[/spoiler:9e5b7a3f37]

    I'm pretty sure that was retconned far enough back for it not to count.

    Wikipedia never lies!

    [spoiler:9e5b7a3f37]After being restored to adulthood, Mastermind became involved with the Hellfire Club during the famous "Dark Phoenix Saga," in which he was largely responsible for turning Phoenix into Dark Phoenix. He did this through the use of his own powers and a mindtap mechanism created by Emma Frost, which he used to project his illusion directly into her mind, causing her to believe she was re-living the life of one of her ancestors. Through this mental seduction, he eventually turned her against the X-Men...[/spoiler:9e5b7a3f37]

    Langly on
  • Options
    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Langly wrote:
    Skullo wrote:
    Theres got to be a way for Ghost to counter the illusions/ not be effected / use the environment to his advantage.

    How strong are Mastermind's illussions anyway, I'm not fimiliar with the character.

    Gentleman Ghost needs to win this. He's so badass.

    Mastermind is pretty fucking strong. He's the guy that..I don't think I need spoilers but just in case (it's x-men spoiler):

    [spoiler:faf7cda966]makes the phoenix (Jean Grey) go insane and turn into the dark phoenix. Basically he tricks the most powerful being in the universe into being the most evil thing ever. Besides that I don't know what all he's done. Isn't he the guy who's been fucking up the Astonishing X-men?[/spoiler:faf7cda966]

    I'm pretty sure that was retconned far enough back for it not to count.

    Wikipedia never lies!

    [spoiler:faf7cda966]After being restored to adulthood, Mastermind became involved with the Hellfire Club during the famous "Dark Phoenix Saga," in which he was largely responsible for turning Phoenix into Dark Phoenix. He did this through the use of his own powers and a mindtap mechanism created by Emma Frost, which he used to project his illusion directly into her mind, causing her to believe she was re-living the life of one of her ancestors. Through this mental seduction, he eventually turned her against the X-Men...[/spoiler:faf7cda966]

    But she/it had taken the form of a biological woman, and Gentleman Ghost is fucking dead.

    Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    august on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm pretty sure Ghost just hates living people.

    So Mastermind's chances of seducing him are about nil.

    Furu on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Furu wrote:
    So Mastermind's chances of seducing him are about nil.

    Thank you for introducing some awfully awkward mental images into my head.

    robosagogo on
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    SnoogySnoogy Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Furu wrote:
    So Mastermind's chances of seducing him are about nil.

    Thank you for introducing some awfully awkward mental images into my head.


    I think we would all love to watch him try though :wink:

    Snoogy on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    august wrote:

    Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.

    Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.

    Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.

    Langly on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    august wrote:

    Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.

    Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.

    Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.

    He may still be a virgin, dude's an ugly mofo.

    Marathon on
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    SnoogySnoogy Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    august wrote:

    Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.

    Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.

    Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.


    You mean thats the only way to beat him? ::checks wiki:: How was he let in?

    Snoogy on
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Langly wrote:
    august wrote:

    Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.

    Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.

    Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.

    Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.

    That's what happaned in that most recent JSA arc, but he was a Hawkman rogue before that, so how did beakface beat him?

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    "Shit, it's the Ghost again. Someone get me a British chap and a little Christian girl. stat."

    Furu on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    That's the only way that's posited in the wiki. But Hawkman/girl fight him all the time, supposedly. i don't know how they beat him.

    One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?

    I dunno, i'm stretching here.

    Where the hell's Keith or karma? They read DC

    Langly on
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