One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
There isn't really any evidence that Masterminds powers could work on dead people. That I know of. It's a fine line, I know, but hey.
The fact is that Mastermind has no offensive power at all. Even if his powers work on the Ghost, I doubt there's anything he could show him that was worse than dying.
Ghost on the other hand has two perfectly fine guns he can plug Mindy full of holes with.
One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
There isn't really any evidence that Masterminds powers could work on dead people. That I know of. It's a fine line, I know, but hey.
There is just as much evidence to say that they would. Gentleman Ghost is not some mindless zombie slumping along. He is a ghost, but he has a mind and a self awareness. I think it's fair to say that Mastermind could use his power on him.
Mastermind projects illusions into the mind, and Gentleman Ghost has a mind, even though he may not have a physical brain.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
There isn't really any evidence that Masterminds powers could work on dead people. That I know of. It's a fine line, I know, but hey.
There is just as much evidence to say that they would. Gentleman Ghost is not some mindless zombie slumping along. He is a ghost, but he has a mind and a self awareness. I think it's fair to say that Mastermind could use his power on him.
Mastermind projects illusions into the mind, and Gentleman Ghost has a mind, even though he may not have a physical brain.
I know, I know. This is a somewhat circular argument.
Depending on the mythology "psychic" or "psionic" powers may or may not be part of the spiritual realm. Most of the mutants in the Marvel U that are psychic, are firmly in the science fiction realm of mutant biology. Professor X does not go around performing exorcisms, for example. This is why I find it doubtful that Mastermind could affect dead people by the rules of the universe he was created in.
Look, Shiva can give Batman a run for his money. Batman could take Spider-Man out. Spidey has beaten Gobby (albeit barely sometimes) several times. Therefore, Shiva will beat Gobby. I mean, this is the sort of shit she's trained for
What?
No.
See.
Spider-man would beat Batman like, every time. Shiva hasn't got a chance because no matter what martial arts she has, Goblins got waaaay more to use against her than just "martial arts kick #429". He has "Superstrong punch that will cave your chest #2."
One thing that's notable is that ability to turn himself invisible and incorporeal. Maybe when he's not incorporeal he can be hurt/ affected by the illusions?
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
There isn't really any evidence that Masterminds powers could work on dead people. That I know of. It's a fine line, I know, but hey.
There is just as much evidence to say that they would. Gentleman Ghost is not some mindless zombie slumping along. He is a ghost, but he has a mind and a self awareness. I think it's fair to say that Mastermind could use his power on him.
Mastermind projects illusions into the mind, and Gentleman Ghost has a mind, even though he may not have a physical brain.
I know, I know. This is a somewhat circular argument.
Depending on the mythology "psychic" or "psionic" powers may or may not be part of the spiritual realm. Most of the mutants in the Marvel U that are psychic, are firmly in the science fiction realm of mutant biology. Professor X does not go around performing exorcisms, for example. This is why I find it doubtful that Mastermind could affect dead people by the rules of the universe he was created in.
To be fair, how many ghosts are there in the MU? I can't think of a one.
If he can affect Ghost, then why not Ultron with his robot brain? He's self-aware and has a mind.
The way I see it anyway, if Ghost is put into the illusion of a threatening situation he'll go intangible and phase his way out of there until he's out of the range of MM's powers. Meanwhile, MM has to deal with an environment that's even worse than his illusions and real.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Yeah, I was about to ask: does Spider-Man have time to prepare?
Yes, but only if Batman gets that Sonar cowel that he pulls out some times.
Hey guys remember when Spider-man and Batman fought carnage and the joker together and they didn't like each other but eventually learned to respect one another? Good times.
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Except maybe with a bomb.
She can dodge bullets, so she can dodge a bright orange PUMPKIN being lobbed by a man in phosphorescent tights flying around on a glider shaped like a bat that spews smoke.
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Except maybe with a bomb.
Oh yeah. She can see a punch coming, but she can't see a BOMB coming. She can dodge bullets, but she can't dodge a bright orange PUMPKIN being lobbed by a man phosphorescent tights flying around on a glider shaped like a bat that spews smoke.
Norman does like to make full scale bombing runs though, chucking pumpkins everywhere. I know he only has 12, but that should be a big enough area that she can't really "dodge" it. It might give him all the opening he needs
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Except maybe with a bomb.
Oh yeah. She can see a punch coming, but she can't see a BOMB coming. She can dodge bullets, but she can't dodge a bright orange PUMPKIN being lobbed by a man phosphorescent tights flying around on a glider shaped like a bat that spews smoke.
Norman does like to make full scale bombing runs though, chucking pumpkins everywhere. I know he only has 12, but that should be a big enough area that she can't really "dodge" it. It might give him all the opening he needs
She can see where he's going to throw before he throws by looking at the movement of his arms as he reaches into the pouch. She has plenty of time to dodge. Meanwhile, she can catch him with a knife to the face if he goes crazy throwing pumpkins at her.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Shiva knows what Goblin does before he does. Since Goblin isn't a trained fighter, he also telegraphs his attacks.
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
It's not a healing factor on par with Wolverine or of much use in a fight, and super-strength doesn't matter when you can't lay a hit. Goblin doesn't have any martial arts training. He'd never land a hit.
Except maybe with a bomb.
Oh yeah. She can see a punch coming, but she can't see a BOMB coming. She can dodge bullets, but she can't dodge a bright orange PUMPKIN being lobbed by a man phosphorescent tights flying around on a glider shaped like a bat that spews smoke.
Norman does like to make full scale bombing runs though, chucking pumpkins everywhere. I know he only has 12, but that should be a big enough area that she can't really "dodge" it. It might give him all the opening he needs
Yeah, enough of an opening for Shiva to leap onto the Glider and break his neck.
Man, I barely know anything about Lady Shiva and I still know Gobby is severely dead. Sure, he will turn out to be alive years later, negateing what was a truely classic scene, but no way does he walk off with this one.
I know, I know. I just like to keep the debate going.
Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.
Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.
Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.
Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.
He may still be a virgin, dude's an ugly mofo.
Mastermind has two daughters, right? So, not a virgin. I'd imagine illusion powers help with the ugliness.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.
Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.
Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.
Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.
He may still be a virgin, dude's an ugly mofo.
Mastermind has two daughters, right? So, not a virgin. I'd imagine illusion powers help with the ugliness.
Wait, is that Lady Mastermind who just joined Rogue's team related?
Also, I don't think we really need to spoiler the Dark Phoenix Saga.
Sorry, didn't want to step on any toes.
Also, I'm not saying Mastermind could win this, someone just asked what he could do.
Gentleman Ghost's wiki says that he was defeated by a decendant of the Royal House of England and a virgin. I'm assuming Mastermind is neither of these, so he'll probably lose.
He may still be a virgin, dude's an ugly mofo.
Mastermind has two daughters, right? So, not a virgin. I'd imagine illusion powers help with the ugliness.
Or he could be really good in the sack.
Not like you'd be able to tell either way, short of having Leech watch.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You'd be a pretty shitty fighter if you weren't aware enough to notice an attack coming from behind, or able to hear a Goblin Glider.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2006
Yet time and time again it catches people offguard.
It's hard to dodge something moving extremely fast when you can't even see the damn thing.
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Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yet time and time again it catches people offguard.
It's hard to dodge something moving extremely fast when you can't even see the damn thing.
But easier when you expect it.
"I can't see Green Goblin. If he isn't in front of me then, EGADS, he'll come at me from behind!"
Lady Shiva's a much better fighter than Spider-Man and the sheer predictability of Green Goblin's attacks (I'll get her from behind is a pretty poor strategy.) will net her the win.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yet time and time again it catches people offguard.
It's hard to dodge something moving extremely fast when you can't even see the damn thing.
But easier when you expect it.
"I can't see Green Goblin. If he isn't in front of me then, EGADS, he'll come at me from behind!"
Lady Shiva's a much better fighter than Spider-Man and the sheer predictability of Green Goblin's attacks (I'll get her from behind is a pretty poor strategy.) will net her the win.
No, you see, Goblin fights the person on the ground as the flyer continues to fly and hits the unsuspecting person in the back. This is how he died*. Spider-man used his spider-sense to jump out of the way at the last second and Gobbo got impaled on his own damn glider.
*Before it was retconned in the fuckin clone saga.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yet time and time again it catches people offguard.
It's hard to dodge something moving extremely fast when you can't even see the damn thing.
But easier when you expect it.
"I can't see Green Goblin. If he isn't in front of me then, EGADS, he'll come at me from behind!"
Lady Shiva's a much better fighter than Spider-Man and the sheer predictability of Green Goblin's attacks (I'll get her from behind is a pretty poor strategy.) will net her the win.
No, you see, Goblin fights the person on the ground as the flyer continues to fly and hits the unsuspecting person in the back. This is how he died*. Spider-man used his spider-sense to jump out of the way at the last second and Gobbo got impaled on his own damn glider.
*Before it was retconned in the fuckin clone saga.
But see, if he's fighting her on the ground, I think it's "AH KNIFE IN MY EYE" before the glider even gets there.
Posts
We've gone over this already. Mastermind only projects illusions into the mind. They don't become real.
Look, the dude is dead. Dead. What the hell is Mastermind going to do?
He is going to get shot to death, that's what.
I mean, affected as in "the illusions work". Not that they hurt him.
There isn't really any evidence that Masterminds powers could work on dead people. That I know of. It's a fine line, I know, but hey.
I'm still all for the awkward seduction try. Maybe he creeps the Ghost out so bad that he just quits?
Oh well that's real handy. I bet that's real easy to get ahold of.
Damn, I see GG winning the whole tournament just cause no one can hurt him.
Ghost on the other hand has two perfectly fine guns he can plug Mindy full of holes with.
There is just as much evidence to say that they would. Gentleman Ghost is not some mindless zombie slumping along. He is a ghost, but he has a mind and a self awareness. I think it's fair to say that Mastermind could use his power on him.
Mastermind projects illusions into the mind, and Gentleman Ghost has a mind, even though he may not have a physical brain.
I know, I know. This is a somewhat circular argument.
Depending on the mythology "psychic" or "psionic" powers may or may not be part of the spiritual realm. Most of the mutants in the Marvel U that are psychic, are firmly in the science fiction realm of mutant biology. Professor X does not go around performing exorcisms, for example. This is why I find it doubtful that Mastermind could affect dead people by the rules of the universe he was created in.
What?
No.
See.
Spider-man would beat Batman like, every time. Shiva hasn't got a chance because no matter what martial arts she has, Goblins got waaaay more to use against her than just "martial arts kick #429". He has "Superstrong punch that will cave your chest #2."
To be fair, how many ghosts are there in the MU? I can't think of a one.
The way I see it anyway, if Ghost is put into the illusion of a threatening situation he'll go intangible and phase his way out of there until he's out of the range of MM's powers. Meanwhile, MM has to deal with an environment that's even worse than his illusions and real.
OH NO YOU DIDN'T
not that I really care either way but
OH SNAP NOW IT'S ON
Meanwhile, Spider-Man beats Goblin with Spider-Sense which essentially does what Shiva has trained herself to do (predict attacks before they happen).
The next 20 odd posts:
Spider sence!
Time to prepare!
Yeah, I was about to ask: does Spider-Man have time to prepare?
Yeah but still: healing factor and super strength.
I think I'm going with Shiva stabbing him in the eyeball, but it's a close call.
Yes, but only if Batman gets that Sonar cowel that he pulls out some times.
Yeah, I'll buy that.
Hey guys remember when Spider-man and Batman fought carnage and the joker together and they didn't like each other but eventually learned to respect one another? Good times.
Norman does like to make full scale bombing runs though, chucking pumpkins everywhere. I know he only has 12, but that should be a big enough area that she can't really "dodge" it. It might give him all the opening he needs
She can see where he's going to throw before he throws by looking at the movement of his arms as he reaches into the pouch. She has plenty of time to dodge. Meanwhile, she can catch him with a knife to the face if he goes crazy throwing pumpkins at her.
Yeah, enough of an opening for Shiva to leap onto the Glider and break his neck.
I know, I know. I just like to keep the debate going.
Wait, is that Lady Mastermind who just joined Rogue's team related?
Not like you'd be able to tell either way, short of having Leech watch.
Shiva won't be able to spider-sense dodge the glider when it comes back around and hits her in the spine.
It's hard to dodge something moving extremely fast when you can't even see the damn thing.
"I can't see Green Goblin. If he isn't in front of me then, EGADS, he'll come at me from behind!"
Lady Shiva's a much better fighter than Spider-Man and the sheer predictability of Green Goblin's attacks (I'll get her from behind is a pretty poor strategy.) will net her the win.
No, you see, Goblin fights the person on the ground as the flyer continues to fly and hits the unsuspecting person in the back. This is how he died*. Spider-man used his spider-sense to jump out of the way at the last second and Gobbo got impaled on his own damn glider.
*Before it was retconned in the fuckin clone saga.
But see, if he's fighting her on the ground, I think it's "AH KNIFE IN MY EYE" before the glider even gets there.