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Make people pay for their own prison term?
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im going to hope you are kidding. of course they are people. thats why they dont get whipped, killed whenver we want, tortured, sold raped, etc, and are protected through our constitution with the same rights as those outside of prison walls.
seriously. i hope you are kidding. cause thats not even NEAR what i am saying nor can you make a logical connection to registering them as 3/5th of a person.
yes, youre right. what i was suggesting is that they live in a 5 star hotel. or even a 4 star. this isnt "the office".
try not to be a douche.
No, that by itself is forced labor.
Slavery also requires workers to be property, not persons. To what extend that's true of the US prison system is debatable.
and number four, notice it says severe toil. what prison has "severe toil".
jeesh.
Try not to be dumb, maybe we can meet each other halfway
Except for the right to be compensated for their labour. Because lord knows they have it easy landing a paying job once they get paroled so any sort of savings or reduction in debt that's accrued inside prison is just wasted on 'em.
you're right. they dont have the same exact rights that i have. sorry i said it that way. they do have their lives and wellbeing protected and cared for. and inmates who commit crimes againts other inmates are punished accordingly. just like outside the walls.
Are you familiar with Roman slavery?
You are one of those people that think prisoners have it good, aren't you? :?
lol ill do my best
sigh... no. i dont think they "have it good"
its obviously not as good as i have it.
you're obviously one of those people who jumps to a conclusion because it helps you make your point.
I don't know if I should feel ashamed for entertaining arguments out of a dictionary.
If we're going to do this, from Wikipedia:
Definition one of the term 'slavery' as you posted it meshes with what is found in Wikipedia, and the conditions described coincide with what you are proposing.
Slaves were counted as 3/5's of a person.
This is not a logical leap.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Are you just not familiar with American prisons?
drudg⋅er⋅y
/ˈdrʌdʒəri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [druhj-uh-ree] Show IPA
Use drudgery in a Sentence
–noun, plural -er⋅ies.
menial, distasteful, dull, or hard work.
Yeah, chain-gangs are not the least bit dull, menial, hard, or distasteful.
Oh, and:
bond⋅age
/ˈbɒndɪdʒ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bon-dij] Show IPA
Use bondage in a Sentence
–noun
1. slavery or involuntary servitude; serfdom.
2. the state of being bound by or subjected to some external power or control.
3. the state or practice of being physically restrained, as by being tied up, chained, or put in handcuffs, for sexual gratification.
4. Early English Law. personal subjection to the control of a superior; villeinage.
Origin:
1250–1300; ME < AL bondagium. See bond 2 , -age
Synonyms:
1. captivity, restraint; prison. See slavery. 2. thralldom, captivity, confinement, imprisonment.
And there are many other reference books you should be reviewing than the bloody dictionary.
Ironically yes, but it took many forms. Which one would you like to use as your analogy? The "captured in war" kind or the "sell yourself for limited time" kind or another one entirely?
The Captured one, since we're talking about Captured people, not indentured servants.
OK. Those were clearly considered property of their owners. So I would consider them slaves in the modern sense.
It fucking sucks. "the treatment that inmates get, from their cable to their health care is nice. its not crap." is fucking bullshit except for maybe a few white collar prisoners. Prisons are fucking overcrowded, have a really high level of rape and violence, and the people in charge have incentives to keep costs to a minimum by screwing over prisoners.
Not to mention even nonviolent offenders being vilified and denied employment, housing, and other opportunities after release.
Yes, let's talk about the bill itself. I think it's crap and I have said why. I don't necessarily disagree that some white-collar criminals ought to be penalized more but I would like to hear a different proposal on how to do that.
They are Wards of the State. The distinction between that and chattel, particularly if you require uncompensated work during their incarceration, seems to be slicing hairs pretty thin. It's basically the equivalent to saying that serfs were footloose and fancy free.
That's rather easy. Just change it to the 'Madoff is a horrible person and his ilk should suffer their lot' bill and alter sentencing guidelines on white collar criminal offenses. Personally I feel that we should practically (with a lot more detail and less generalizing) switch the sentencing structure between violent crimes and non-violent crimes (aside from our crazy drug laws which are 5 threads all their own).
Mugging somebody because you're desperate for cash is horrible, but it is also much closer to the prototypical stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family. Meanwhile defrauding investors from the comfort of your corner office is both a premeditated act (rather than a crime of passion, which can be stretched to meet things like theft, that mugger, &c.) and performed with sheer malice rather than with any sort of personal necessity/need imaginable.
Wait, you're saying American prisons have severe toil? I would have to disagree. They have quite a lot of periods of inactivity of rest.
And without promoting the idea of making prisoners work for their keep, I'm not sure how doing so would be the dividing line between prisoner and slavery. Prisoners are forced to live in a place against their will, and to do some amount of work. If we increase that to a greater amount of work on a more regular basis, without that work being constant and back-breaking, does that suddenly become slavery?
There are... 5 types of slavery if I recall. Making prisoners work for no pay is the last type of slavery to end in the united states.
Are they receiving any form of remuneration?
And, again, lots of other reference books out there than the dictionary. Including ones that might actually be, you know, useful rather than one of the wort debating tropes ever conceived.
What it should be or what we would want it to be? Because I'd love for it to be 1 day in prison for every dollar you stole. But that's just the vengefulness in me, and our criminal justice system is supposed rise above that.
I dunno, I'm really not that well versed in sentencing guidelines for most things. It would seem fairly reasonable to have a relatively mirrored system to that of murder with varying degrees of fraud. Ones which take both the degree of it as well as the level of complicity involved into account and that ultimately permits seeking a sentence of natural life.
i do agree that conditions should be improved in some areas. but, again, i dont think not paying them would constitute slavery.
my definition of slavery is not really the one from the dictionary. its party of it. yes, i quoted it. but only illustrate the point. its not like real slavery.
What part of compelled, uncompensated labour is not like real slavery? The uncompensated part, or the subjugated labour part?
Because slavery means a lot more than just black people picking cotton.
1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another
Hey look I found a dictionary with different definitions.
People that are forced to work uncompensated are slaves.
I'm pretty sure current prisoners are forced to work uncompensated.
[citation needed]
how's that now?
carry on
except for the fact that the people are being punished. they are not made servants and slaves to people because of the color of their skin or their "inferiority" like our stupid ancestors did.
its not the same. yeah, it "seems" the same when you say crap like "they are not paid, and are subjuageted to work." yes, thats part of a punishment.
also, slaves are generaly pieces of property that can be sold, chucked out, traded, etc. prisoners arent that way.
again, YES, the conditions in prison are not awesome. its not fun. its not supposed to be. but it is worse than it should be generally. the only thing i am saying is taht we should not be paying people who have committed crimes that have infringed other peoples rights. the OTHER thing have had to defend is the fact that no matter what your definition or slavery is at the moment you want to tell me i am wrong, its not TRUE slavery. its not any sort of slavery either.
This is like people trying to defend waterboarding.