DS9 was awesome.
There weren't as many OMG amazing moments as TNG (Best of Both Worlds, Tapestry, Yesterday's Enterprise, Lower Decks) but the average level of quality was consistently higher.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Frankly if you're going to try and make more Star Trek you'd do a hell of a lot better at this point to start seriously fucking with the Federation, considering that's pretty much where the previous movies have been taking it.
Frankly if you're going to try and make more Star Trek you'd do a hell of a lot better at this point to start seriously fucking with the Federation, considering that's pretty much where the previous movies have been taking it.
I think they don't know how to proceed from there, which is why they're doing prequels.
I mean, the end of Voyager introduced weapons from like forty years in the future that could blow up Borg ships.
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ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
DS9 was awesome.
There weren't as many OMG amazing moments as TNG (Best of Both Worlds, Tapestry, Yesterday's Enterprise, Lower Decks) but the average level of quality was consistently higher.
That was due mostly to the fact that it had actual plot arcs, as was mentioned above. TNG didn't have any real character development on a week to week basis; the only two characters you could really say "evolved" over the course of the show were Worf and Wesley Crusher.
Geordi went from token bridge minority to legitimate engineering genius in season 3, which was about the same time that Picard became less of a curmudgeon and more of a wise old grandfather. Every episode that focussed on Data went to great lengths to tell us how he is "growing" towards being more human, but the character really didn't change all that much until the movies.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Remember when the Cardassians were introduced and it was revealed that the Cardassian war had been conducted in secret over the prior five or so years, and O'Brien's previous assignment had been a classified position?
I'd like to see a Star Trek series based around clandestine ops - as long as it didn't involve time travel as a regular plot device.
Especially if they had stuff like a cloaking device or subspace teleporters that they're really not supposed to have.
[/fanboy]
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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Options
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
Clone Wars worked partially because they took an animator known for making kickass cartoons about crazy samurai fighting, and had him work on a series full of gunfights and crazy jedi fighting.
Star trek has.... exactly what to work with that would lend itself to a webisode short animation?
I mean, the animated series had an excuse because it was basically the same show in a half-hour animated format.
Re: Voyager hate, I thought Mulgrew was awesome when she got some meat to chew on. But the writing. Yeesh.
But Star Trek as a franchise is dead to me, it seems like the rest of television has progressed, but Trek is stuck in it's own temporal paradox. Writers who are prepared to deal with characters rather than science fiction props would serve any future trek show really well. Personally, I'd love to see a gritty Battlestar-esque show about Federation politics/corruption/war, etc. Enough with the optimism, bastards!
Clone Wars worked partially because they took an animator known for making kickass cartoons about crazy samurai fighting, and had him work on a series full of gunfights and crazy jedi fighting.
Star trek has.... exactly what to work with that would lend itself to a webisode short animation?
I mean, the animated series had an excuse because it was basically the same show in a half-hour animated format.
Can you even get through a star trek technobabble conversation in the course of a webisode?
But at this point could star trek get any more in the dumps? It just doesn't work so well as a tv show anymore.
I always thought it would be neat if they gave Riker command of a ship for a trek series. Or maybe a station.
Y'know, I think a station works better than a ship for a sci-fi series. I mean, you get a smattering of thousands of people (or millions), from all different walks of life. You'd have area where the privileged live and hang out, and something like the brown sector from B5. They get to explore the whole infrastructure of this little microcosm of a society. Ships don't allow for that sort of thing.
I always thought it would be neat if they gave Riker command of a ship for a trek series. Or maybe a station.
Y'know, I think a station works better than a ship for a sci-fi series. I mean, you get a smattering of thousands of people (or millions), from all different walks of life. You'd have area where the privileged live and hang out, and something like the brown sector from B5. They get to explore the whole infrastructure of this little microcosm of a society. Ships don't allow for that sort of thing.
I take it you haven't seen (the new) Battlestar Galactica yet? They've had some very good episodes dealing with exactly that sort of "underclass" idea, and it's on a bunch of spaceships.
I second everyone else who has said BSG and similar shows' writing has raised the bar for sci-fi, so for a new Star Trek to succeed it will need strong character-driven writing and more realism.
Star Trek showed that kind of character driven storyline and social microcosm in some episodes. One that comes to mind was a great TNG episode that focussed entirely on a group of Junior officers, concerned with their jobs and personal lives. From memory it was a really good episode and then they used one of the characters in some other episodes and ruined it by making her really important and having some bullshit with her being some special ops and faking her death at one point. :?
Theres nowhere left to go with Star Trek, we know how it ends, we know where it began. Where else is their logically left to go?
What we need is a WH40K TV show in the style of newer Sci-Fi like battlestar galactica. I want to see charecters with opinions and beliefs that seem genuinely alien from mine, I want Sci-Fi to be interesting and challenging. I want to see Mankind struggle to succeed, and take decisions to survive that we might disagree with.
I want the Inquisition. The first episode of the series should be them declaring extirminatus on a planet, and the whole episode devoted to the planet being destroyed with scenes of horror and running about and being melted, contrasted with the scenes on the orbitting imperial battlecruiser of everyone dealing with the situation calmly as if it were run of the mill. IE unlike the usual situation of this there wouldnt be cries of "Oh the humanity" and "Cant we at least save the children!", even from the female charecters.
So of course everyone is horrified by these seemingly unfeeling despicable charecters and thinks they are the villains for destroying this planet.
However the whole season after this is devoted to the buildup to this action (as in, the first episode was actually the last episode if you see what I mean), and you see the cultists being uncovered by the Adeptus Arbites, and the Inquisition arriving and trying to uncover the grander scheme and eventually everything culminates in the destruction of the planet and everyone on it being the only option. You gain an empathy and understanding of these people who really can kill billions with a push of a button. Its different because humanity isnt the glorious noble race it usually is in Sci-Fi, but instead a flawed thing struggling to survive and understand. All this makes you more interested int he story, since you know it isnt the usual "Goodies vs Baddies" thing that Star Trek deals out. DS9 was good because you genuinely did have likeable charecters who were evil, and you werent quite sure what was really going on. With this youd start out thinking the Inquisitor was going to get his comeupance for destroying the planet, but eventually realise he was only doing what he believed was nescesary.
I mean, perhaps it doesnt have to be WH40K, but what Sci-Fi has to be is challenging and strange, and use that strangeness to deal with issues in a fun way. Or course it also has to be exciting and such, but if has to be interesting and unpredictable too, otherwise they may as well address the issues on a farm in Somerset between two star-crossed pig farmers.
A WH40k series like that would be the most awesome thing ever. It will never happen, though, and even if it did, it wouldn't be as morally ambiguous as it should be.
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All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
I suppose you could make it all about the efforts of an inquisitor to uncover this conspiracy, and she and her group would learn more and more about what was going on through the course of the series while trying to hide her efforts from both local Adeptus Arbites agencies and the cultists themselves. Theres all kinds of Derring Do, and you really get to like the Inquisitor, she seems to care about the populace and really want to find out whats going on so she can help.
Then in the penultimate episode she finds out the terible truth, theres going to be a big Bloodthirster sumoning, or the Planetary Governor is a Genestealer Cultist or something and just as it ends you see her revealing herself as an Inquisitor to the imperial fleet commander for the sector and you think she has some clever plan to save the planet.
And in the last episode she just blows it to pieces with Virus Bombs before submitting her report, for which she recieves a commendation for excellent work and prudence. That would be pretty cool, and a totally unexpected resolution.
I just like the idea of forcing people to realise they are empathising with someone they know is going to kill 10 billion people in 12 episodes time. Its stuff like that which defines good Sci-Fi for me, creating situations and charecters which are impossible in the real world and asking how you would deal with it. Its why BSG works so nicely, how far will they go to save humanity? Are they just going to fall to pieces and end up in one big drunken orgy before the robots arrive to kill them? How can Robots be religious and so on.
It warms my heart to see much love for DS9 in this thread. After watching both DS9 and TNG reruns and having some perspective on the shows years later, I do have to say DS9 was the best of the new STs.
Dominion & Jem'Hadar. Jeffrey "Reanimator" Combs as Weyoun. Avery Brooks in charge. Quark. Quark, man!
And, oh yes, as mentioned earlier, the U.S.S. Defiant. The badest fucking ship Starfleet ever put into service. Well, that is until Bad Contact made it look like a wuss ship when it finally went up against the enemy it was specifically designed to fight... what the hell was that all about? :roll: That's okay--I'll be all over the Defiant vs. Borg goodness when Santa leaves ST: Legacy under the tree for me in a few days.
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A WH40k series like that would be the most awesome thing ever. It will never happen, though, and even if it did, it wouldn't be as morally ambiguous as it should be.
I know, and it makes me sad to see so many people turned off from Sci-Fi because it doesnt have the guts to be what it should be. I mean, of course a WH40K series would be almost unmakeable in the modern enviroment, but surely someone could conceive an idea that allows for this sort of story to be addressed in a non generic way.
Even BSG could be better than it is, if they had the guts to show how hard living on those broken down and battered ships was and the sacrifices people had to make to do it.
It will probably be better than Nemesis. Three people fell asleep in the cinema I was in. The fact that the actors kept going on about how, "action packed" it was should have warned me. Nonsensical storyline combined with little action, what a piece of crap.
Insurrection and Nemesis wouldn't have been so bad if they would stop trying to recreate the magic they had with Khan. I think every next gen movie was just some long winded attempt to create "The Next Generation Khan" The days of the stereotypical "bad guy" are long over and the writers of those movies just never got that memo.
Insurrection and Nemesis wouldn't have been so bad if they would stop trying to recreate the magic they had with Khan. I think every next gen movie was just some long winded attempt to create "The Next Generation Khan" The days of the stereotypical "bad guy" are long over and the writers of those movies just never got that memo.
Paramount needs to learn from the new James Bond film and the new Battlestar Galactica and re-invent Star Trek.
Insurrection and Nemesis wouldn't have been so bad if they would stop trying to recreate the magic they had with Khan. I think every next gen movie was just some long winded attempt to create "The Next Generation Khan" The days of the stereotypical "bad guy" are long over and the writers of those movies just never got that memo.
I didn't mind Insurrection, for whatever reason. It felt like an overly long episode of the show, which made it better than Generations, which had nothing to do with anything, seemingly.
Insurrection and Nemesis wouldn't have been so bad if they would stop trying to recreate the magic they had with Khan. I think every next gen movie was just some long winded attempt to create "The Next Generation Khan" The days of the stereotypical "bad guy" are long over and the writers of those movies just never got that memo.
Paramount needs to learn from the new James Bond film and the new Battlestar Galactica and re-invent Star Trek.
Daniel Craig as Captain Kirk!
Fuck yeah.
Instead of phasers, he can just bust through starship hulls like drywall and then slam people's heads against their terminals. It'd be awesome.
It always leaves me wincing a bit when I hear people talk about wanting a Star Trek series where they are on a space station that's falling apart, and they are at war with twelve races and the Federation has been destroyed, and they're starving to death, and the one of the main characters dies every third episode and someone left the milk out and it's gone all creamy and sour.
That's just not Star Trek. if anything I think a new series needs to get closer to the source material than ever not further away.
They should make a movie about Wolf 359. Avery Brooks might still be able to pull off Sisko at age 35, and Patrick Stewart could cameo as Locutus.
It would have to be fucking harcore. And it will never happen. I'm just saying, it would be awesome.
That would be a boring movie. Sorry, but it would be. I mean, you'd have a bit at the begining to introduce the characters, then the news of the Borg incursion, then they get to Wolf 359 and die. The end.
They should make a movie about Wolf 359. Avery Brooks might still be able to pull off Sisko at age 35, and Patrick Stewart could cameo as Locutus.
It would have to be fucking harcore. And it will never happen. I'm just saying, it would be awesome.
That would be a boring movie. Sorry, but it would be. I mean, you'd have a bit at the begining to introduce the characters, then the news of the Borg incursion, then they get to Wolf 359 and die. The end.
Well, yeah. It would pretty much be a zombie movie with spaceships.
Which I guess is really awesome or really lame, depending on how you look at it.
I'm the polar opposite. The trailer sucks. It's generic at best, right down to the absolutely nothing new ship combat scenes. Oh look explosions and such wow how...90s.
And what the hell is up with the beginning of the trailer. Motorcycles? Cars? Wha?!
Dreadful dreadful trailer. If this is an example of the movie JJ Abrams will be lynched.
Posts
There weren't as many OMG amazing moments as TNG (Best of Both Worlds, Tapestry, Yesterday's Enterprise, Lower Decks) but the average level of quality was consistently higher.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I mean, the end of Voyager introduced weapons from like forty years in the future that could blow up Borg ships.
That was due mostly to the fact that it had actual plot arcs, as was mentioned above. TNG didn't have any real character development on a week to week basis; the only two characters you could really say "evolved" over the course of the show were Worf and Wesley Crusher.
Geordi went from token bridge minority to legitimate engineering genius in season 3, which was about the same time that Picard became less of a curmudgeon and more of a wise old grandfather. Every episode that focussed on Data went to great lengths to tell us how he is "growing" towards being more human, but the character really didn't change all that much until the movies.
Remember when the Cardassians were introduced and it was revealed that the Cardassian war had been conducted in secret over the prior five or so years, and O'Brien's previous assignment had been a classified position?
I'd like to see a Star Trek series based around clandestine ops - as long as it didn't involve time travel as a regular plot device.
Especially if they had stuff like a cloaking device or subspace teleporters that they're really not supposed to have.
[/fanboy]
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
How do you keep a war secret?
Also, "Reagan in South America LOL"
All wooden and dumb and a hardass and ugly and God she sucked.
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
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Clone Wars worked partially because they took an animator known for making kickass cartoons about crazy samurai fighting, and had him work on a series full of gunfights and crazy jedi fighting.
Star trek has.... exactly what to work with that would lend itself to a webisode short animation?
I mean, the animated series had an excuse because it was basically the same show in a half-hour animated format.
But Star Trek as a franchise is dead to me, it seems like the rest of television has progressed, but Trek is stuck in it's own temporal paradox. Writers who are prepared to deal with characters rather than science fiction props would serve any future trek show really well. Personally, I'd love to see a gritty Battlestar-esque show about Federation politics/corruption/war, etc. Enough with the optimism, bastards!
Can you even get through a star trek technobabble conversation in the course of a webisode?
But at this point could star trek get any more in the dumps? It just doesn't work so well as a tv show anymore.
I never asked for this!
Y'know, I think a station works better than a ship for a sci-fi series. I mean, you get a smattering of thousands of people (or millions), from all different walks of life. You'd have area where the privileged live and hang out, and something like the brown sector from B5. They get to explore the whole infrastructure of this little microcosm of a society. Ships don't allow for that sort of thing.
You mess with the dolphin, you get the nose.
I take it you haven't seen (the new) Battlestar Galactica yet? They've had some very good episodes dealing with exactly that sort of "underclass" idea, and it's on a bunch of spaceships.
I second everyone else who has said BSG and similar shows' writing has raised the bar for sci-fi, so for a new Star Trek to succeed it will need strong character-driven writing and more realism.
What we need is a WH40K TV show in the style of newer Sci-Fi like battlestar galactica. I want to see charecters with opinions and beliefs that seem genuinely alien from mine, I want Sci-Fi to be interesting and challenging. I want to see Mankind struggle to succeed, and take decisions to survive that we might disagree with.
I want the Inquisition. The first episode of the series should be them declaring extirminatus on a planet, and the whole episode devoted to the planet being destroyed with scenes of horror and running about and being melted, contrasted with the scenes on the orbitting imperial battlecruiser of everyone dealing with the situation calmly as if it were run of the mill. IE unlike the usual situation of this there wouldnt be cries of "Oh the humanity" and "Cant we at least save the children!", even from the female charecters.
So of course everyone is horrified by these seemingly unfeeling despicable charecters and thinks they are the villains for destroying this planet.
However the whole season after this is devoted to the buildup to this action (as in, the first episode was actually the last episode if you see what I mean), and you see the cultists being uncovered by the Adeptus Arbites, and the Inquisition arriving and trying to uncover the grander scheme and eventually everything culminates in the destruction of the planet and everyone on it being the only option. You gain an empathy and understanding of these people who really can kill billions with a push of a button. Its different because humanity isnt the glorious noble race it usually is in Sci-Fi, but instead a flawed thing struggling to survive and understand. All this makes you more interested int he story, since you know it isnt the usual "Goodies vs Baddies" thing that Star Trek deals out. DS9 was good because you genuinely did have likeable charecters who were evil, and you werent quite sure what was really going on. With this youd start out thinking the Inquisitor was going to get his comeupance for destroying the planet, but eventually realise he was only doing what he believed was nescesary.
I mean, perhaps it doesnt have to be WH40K, but what Sci-Fi has to be is challenging and strange, and use that strangeness to deal with issues in a fun way. Or course it also has to be exciting and such, but if has to be interesting and unpredictable too, otherwise they may as well address the issues on a farm in Somerset between two star-crossed pig farmers.
or something.
Then in the penultimate episode she finds out the terible truth, theres going to be a big Bloodthirster sumoning, or the Planetary Governor is a Genestealer Cultist or something and just as it ends you see her revealing herself as an Inquisitor to the imperial fleet commander for the sector and you think she has some clever plan to save the planet.
And in the last episode she just blows it to pieces with Virus Bombs before submitting her report, for which she recieves a commendation for excellent work and prudence. That would be pretty cool, and a totally unexpected resolution.
I just like the idea of forcing people to realise they are empathising with someone they know is going to kill 10 billion people in 12 episodes time. Its stuff like that which defines good Sci-Fi for me, creating situations and charecters which are impossible in the real world and asking how you would deal with it. Its why BSG works so nicely, how far will they go to save humanity? Are they just going to fall to pieces and end up in one big drunken orgy before the robots arrive to kill them? How can Robots be religious and so on.
Dominion & Jem'Hadar. Jeffrey "Reanimator" Combs as Weyoun. Avery Brooks in charge. Quark. Quark, man!
And, oh yes, as mentioned earlier, the U.S.S. Defiant. The badest fucking ship Starfleet ever put into service. Well, that is until Bad Contact made it look like a wuss ship when it finally went up against the enemy it was specifically designed to fight... what the hell was that all about? :roll: That's okay--I'll be all over the Defiant vs. Borg goodness when Santa leaves ST: Legacy under the tree for me in a few days.
Ng Security Industries, Inc.
PRERELEASE VERSION-NOT FOR FIELD USE - DO NOT TEST IN A POPULATED AREA
-ULTIMA RATIO REGUM-
I know, and it makes me sad to see so many people turned off from Sci-Fi because it doesnt have the guts to be what it should be. I mean, of course a WH40K series would be almost unmakeable in the modern enviroment, but surely someone could conceive an idea that allows for this sort of story to be addressed in a non generic way.
Even BSG could be better than it is, if they had the guts to show how hard living on those broken down and battered ships was and the sacrifices people had to make to do it.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Paramount needs to learn from the new James Bond film and the new Battlestar Galactica and re-invent Star Trek.
Daniel Craig as Captain Kirk!
Nemesis was just fucking god-awful, though.
Yes, I know there are some shitty OS movies. But I can't think of a single TNG movie that I really liked.
Fuck yeah.
Instead of phasers, he can just bust through starship hulls like drywall and then slam people's heads against their terminals. It'd be awesome.
That's just not Star Trek. if anything I think a new series needs to get closer to the source material than ever not further away.
That's my two pennies.
It would have to be fucking harcore. And it will never happen. I'm just saying, it would be awesome.
That would be a boring movie. Sorry, but it would be. I mean, you'd have a bit at the begining to introduce the characters, then the news of the Borg incursion, then they get to Wolf 359 and die. The end.
Which I guess is really awesome or really lame, depending on how you look at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0WNPb8R-40
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However I will watch the fuck outta this movie.
Got BOTP'd
This gon be sexy
Also, I have to say I think I would become a future-type cop just so I could wear the awesome suit.
Holy shit
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And what the hell is up with the beginning of the trailer. Motorcycles? Cars? Wha?!
Dreadful dreadful trailer. If this is an example of the movie JJ Abrams will be lynched.