Oh, so you get to decide they're unreasonable and that being with you is in their best interests.
Yes, in that one case. The option to withhold information in order to preserve peace is available to everyone, and everyone exercises it at least once. Being in a relationship doesn't mean surrendering your right to privacy.
That said, keeping a secret from someone else doesn't rob them of the ability to decide that being with you isn't in their best interest. If it isn't love, then a break up will occur anyway.
No. If it's important to them then you don't get to declare them irrational and cut them out. Doing so justifies cheating any number of times so long as you can rationalize to yourself that you're acting in their best interest. Also, I can honestly say there is absolutely nothing I've lied to my wife about. Probably because the two options in my head when she asks a question aren't "Lie" or "Insult" which apparently is a problem a lot of people have.
@RocketSauce: Making out like horny chimpanzees isn't exactly "just kissing" and even then it's still owed to the other party to tell them. It's up to them whether they should care.
The answer is pretty obvious; couples decide where they draw that line. Both of them.
If kissing is no big deal and 'who cares?', presumably one's significant other would have no problem hearing about it and one would have no problem telling their significant other about it.
It's cheating (or, put another way, the boyfriend would very likely see it as cheating and the OP clearly feels guilty enough about it to seek advice), and I'm not sure what telling him would accomplish for anyone. I guess he'd know that he shouldn't trust you?
@RocketSauce: Making out like horny chimpanzees isn't exactly "just kissing" and even then it's still owed to the other party to tell them. It's up to them whether they should care.
In a perfect world, sure. That almost never happens though.
It's cheating (or, put another way, the boyfriend would very likely see it as cheating and the OP clearly feels guilty enough about it to seek advice), and I'm not sure what telling him would accomplish for anyone. I guess he'd know that he shouldn't trust you?
Honesty in the relationship? Addressing the issues that led to the cheating in the first place?
I mean if they want that sort of thing. If they don't care, then they can do whatever, I guess.
No. If it's important to them then you don't get to declare them irrational and cut them out. Doing so justifies cheating any number of times so long as you can rationalize to yourself that you're acting in their best interest. Also, I can honestly say there is absolutely nothing I've lied to my wife about. Probably because the two options in my head when she asks a question aren't "Lie" or "Insult" which apparently is a problem a lot of people have.
@RocketSauce: Making out like horny chimpanzees isn't exactly "just kissing" and even then it's still owed to the other party to tell them. It's up to them whether they should care.
Like I said, keeping a secret is not a wholesale declaration that the other person irrational.
Also, the fact that you haven't ever lied to your wife is quite unusual, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to be able to follow your example. More so if the couple isn't even married.
So it is worth breaking up a relationship for the sake of honesty about a non-event?
If it results in a break up it wasn't a non-event.
I take issue with this statement. People can (and do) break up with others for non-events.
If someone is breaking up with you for some action, then obviously they don't perceive it as a non-event. I think it would simply be a pretext otherwise.
Also, the fact that you haven't ever lied to your wife is quite unusual, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to be able to follow your example. More so if the couple isn't even married.
This sort of claim requires numeric support, I think. It really isn't all that hard to avoid lying to someone you respect.
Also, the fact that you haven't ever lied to your wife is quite unusual, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to be able to follow your example. More so if the couple isn't even married.
This sort of claim requires numeric support, I think. It really isn't all that hard to avoid lying to someone you respect.
I can't find anything, as google brings up nothing but shoddy sites. Hopefully someone else can do so.
That said, I think most posters will agree that it's rare to never lie to your spouse, ever.
Like I said, keeping a secret is not a wholesale declaration that the other person irrational.
No, they're just probably irrational is what you said.
So either you're declaring them irrational for choosing their reasons to break up with you, or they are being rational and you just don't think they get to decide if screwing up once is up to them.
@RocketSauce: Making out like horny chimpanzees isn't exactly "just kissing" and even then it's still owed to the other party to tell them. It's up to them whether they should care.
In a perfect world, sure. That almost never happens though.
Never said it is.
Apparently because Robos is the one to decide what's worth breaking up over in the relationship.
Also, the fact that you haven't ever lied to your wife is quite unusual, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to be able to follow your example. More so if the couple isn't even married.
This sort of claim requires numeric support, I think. It really isn't all that hard to avoid lying to someone you respect.
I can't find anything, as google brings up nothing but shoddy sites. Hopefully someone else can do so.
That said, I think most posters will agree that it's rare to never lie to your spouse, ever.
So if your partner said 'if you _____ anyone I will divorce/leave you'
and you got black out drunk and _____'d someone, and only found out the next day
you would file for divorce? Let's say _____ is making out, which again has no chance of spreading disease and supposing he/she has no chance of finding out.
Willing to kiss your marriage/relationship good bye for honesty?
Out of curiosity, Robos, what are you lying to your SO about?
I have never lied to my partner about infidelity. I've told him things that would probably end my public life if they became well known.
But I think it's naive to think there are never things you should tell your partner. I'm not talking about cheating constantly, having an affair, lying constantly - but it strikes me as highly unrealistic to spend your life with someone and never lie to them.
You have a poor understanding of people if you think they always know what's best for themselves.
But I think it's naive to think there are never things you shouldn't tell your partner. I'm not talking about cheating constantly, having an affair, lying constantly - but it strikes me as highly unrealistic to spend your life with someone and never lie to them.
I bolded a bit that where I'm reading it as I think it was intended. I'll concede that there are lies that don't matter but you get into important things, actual trust issues, and my stance is pretty firm. I just don't think it's respectful to the SO to lie to them, and respect's an important thing in a relationship.
I want my partner to tell me if he's unfaithful. But I'm also a very jealous person. I get anxious and upset easily when it comes to the idea of him cheating on me. I honestly don't think he has, but the idea of it still gets to me, especially because we go to different schools.
If he told me he made out with a friend of his, I would appreciate the honesty, but it might not have been for the best. I would probably become anxious, maybe begin demanding where he is, what he's doing at all times, etc. I would be upset if I found out that he was out with that person, even if they have classes/plays together, which would probably be the case.
If he honestly never did it again? Maybe I shouldn't know. I think there are instances in which you do know what's best for your partner. There probably isn't a person you know better in the world.
I prefer the reality of my partner to the fantasy. I want to know this person. Good or bad.
Disclaimer: I've only narrowly avoided cheating because the person I was going to cheat with turned out not to be interested in me. There's a thread in HA about it from last fall. I ended up confessing, though the relationship was already over by the time I did. I avoided telling her for a while because I didn't think it would help her on her graduating final exams. Turns out she knew anyway, but...well.
So if your partner said 'if you _____ anyone I will divorce/leave you'
and you got black out drunk and _____'d someone, and only found out the next day
you would file for divorce? Let's say _____ is making out, which again has no chance of spreading disease and supposing he/she has no chance of finding out.
Willing to kiss your marriage/relationship good bye for honesty?
really?
You really think disease can't spread from making out?
Paraphrasing: You're walking through a desert, and you find a tortoise lying on its back. If you don't help it, it will die. Why aren't you helping it?
Are you going to hang out with this other guy ever again?
Well?
Highly doubtful.
Okay this could count as an update I guess. I decided to listen to your advice (since it was your advice that enabled me and Ryan to get together in the first place) and told Ryan about the 'incident'. On the outside he seemed to handle it pretty well, but I know him too well to just accept the face value of things. He was hurt by it, that much I could tell. He was pretty badly hurt by knowing what I did so now I feel like utter shit for doing that to him (the kissing, not the telling him; that was for the best).
But it's highly unlikely I'll be hanging out with that mate again, and definitely not alone. How can I be sure of this? Because due to that mate's extreme "gift" for having the worst timing on Earth he shoowed up just shortly after I told Ryan what had happened. And let me tell you, from the look in Ryan's eyes as he looked at him I am now fully prepared to give that friend the boot. Cause I was honestly convinced that Ryan was going to try and kill him, or at least beat the crap out of him.
On the six bears thing, some people are lightweights. In my family, we won't let my mom drive after two glasses of wine, and two gin and tonics at a comedy club will make my dad laugh like he got hit by Joker gas.
True, but unless it's the first time drinking, people tend to know their limits.
Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything unless someone holds you down and pours it down your throat until you black out.
How the fuck was I meant to know what would happen? I can't see the future. For all I knew beforehand it would be like the other times we get pissed. We'd lay around laughing hysterically at TV shows that we normally hate (Scrubs is the prime offendor here). Strangelly enough I couldn't tell that my mate was going to jam his tongue down my throat; oddly that thought never occured to me now after the hundreds of times I've gotten drunk with him. So excuse me for not having the power of precognition!
Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything unless someone holds you down and pours it down your throat until you black out.
How the fuck was I meant to know what would happen?
"I was drunk" isn't an excuse. It was your fault you were drunk, you put yourself in the situation you were in and it was your actions, however impaired or effected by alcohol that we are talking about. Sorry if it sound harsh but alcohol doesn't remove any and all responsibilities.
I want my partner to tell me if he's unfaithful. But I'm also a very jealous person. I get anxious and upset easily when it comes to the idea of him cheating on me. I honestly don't think he has, but the idea of it still gets to me, especially because we go to different schools.
If he told me he made out with a friend of his, I would appreciate the honesty, but it might not have been for the best. I would probably become anxious, maybe begin demanding where he is, what he's doing at all times, etc. I would be upset if I found out that he was out with that person, even if they have classes/plays together, which would probably be the case.
If he honestly never did it again? Maybe I shouldn't know. I think there are instances in which you do know what's best for your partner. There probably isn't a person you know better in the world.
What about if it was only twice? Just half a dozen times? Only every equinox? If you can excuse one act of infidelity because knowing about it would hurt your partner, how is two any different? To the partner the first act never occurred and as such the harm from the revelation is at least as great. In most respects, if the revelation was complete it would be even more harmful as an additional act of infidelity and the added deceit would be revealed. Your partner would become much more anxious and upset and thus under that reasoning the more one cheats, the more one should not reveal it.
I mean if you're willing to embrace living a lie: in for a penny in for a pound.
And there should be a person you know better than your partner. And if you don't evaluating whether you're just lying to protect yourself or your partner would be quite difficult
Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything unless someone holds you down and pours it down your throat until you black out.
How the fuck was I meant to know what would happen?
"I was drunk" isn't an excuse. It was your fault you were drunk, you put yourself in the situation you were in and it was your actions, however impaired or effected by alcohol that we are talking about. Sorry if it sound harsh but alcohol doesn't remove any and all responsibilities.
I know it doesn't but ur making it sound like I knew it would happen. Yes, I'm sorry for what I did but your making it out like I got pissed around him because I wanted him to kiss me. I had no fucking clue it would happen! I'm kicking myself for letting it happen but I didn't see it coming.
Willing to kiss your marriage/relationship good bye for honesty?
really?
My marriage is based on honesty. My wife knows things that, currently, can have me separated from the military. And I trust her with those thing entirely because I can trust her. More so, she doesn't have to hesitate, at any point, to tell me anything because we both know we've found someone worth working on our relationship for should one of us screw up.
So it's not throwing away my marriage for the sake of honesty. It's realizing neither of us are perfect and being willing to work on it because of honesty.
Your missing the point Key. It doesn't make a bit of difference if you knew what was going to happen or not. It's the fact that you LET it happen.
Don't blame the drink.
Don't blame your inability to see the future.
Blame your poor judgement.
What was your boyf's response to it all? Did he actually say anything to the other dude? Did you?
He came over and Ryan just gave him dirty looks? What happened?
Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything unless someone holds you down and pours it down your throat until you black out.
How the fuck was I meant to know what would happen?
"I was drunk" isn't an excuse. It was your fault you were drunk, you put yourself in the situation you were in and it was your actions, however impaired or effected by alcohol that we are talking about. Sorry if it sound harsh but alcohol doesn't remove any and all responsibilities.
I know it doesn't but ur making it sound like I knew it would happen. Yes, I'm sorry for what I did but your making it out like I got pissed around him because I wanted him to kiss me. I had no fucking clue it would happen! I'm kicking myself for letting it happen but I didn't see it coming.
And you're making it sound like it wasn't your actions that we're talking about. This wasn't a flat tire or a hail storm. This wasn't an Act of God; this wasn't an Act of KeyScourge. The only way that "I didn't know it would happen" makes sense as an excuse or extenuating circumstance is by implicitly removing your own culpability. You did know it would happen while you were doing it. The fact that you didn't have the foresight to anticipate your own actions doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that they were your actions.
Alcohol isn't an excuse for anything unless someone holds you down and pours it down your throat until you black out.
How the fuck was I meant to know what would happen?
"I was drunk" isn't an excuse. It was your fault you were drunk, you put yourself in the situation you were in and it was your actions, however impaired or effected by alcohol that we are talking about. Sorry if it sound harsh but alcohol doesn't remove any and all responsibilities.
I know it doesn't but ur making it sound like I knew it would happen. Yes, I'm sorry for what I did but your making it out like I got pissed around him because I wanted him to kiss me. I had no fucking clue it would happen! I'm kicking myself for letting it happen but I didn't see it coming.
And you're making it sound like it wasn't your actions that we're talking about. This wasn't a flat tire or a hail storm. This wasn't an Act of God; this wasn't an Act of KeyScourge. The only way that "I didn't know it would happen" makes sense as an excuse or extenuating circumstance is by implicitly removing your own culpability. You did know it would happen while you were doing it. The fact that you didn't have the foresight to anticipate your own actions doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that they were your actions.
Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between being kissed (over which you have no particular control) and making out (which requires two consenting partners). The former might be worth not telling a partner about on the basis that it stemmed from a drunken misunderstanding which is understood not to happen again, so telling would only cause hostility between the partner and the kisser. The latter requires that the kissee collaborate in the act, so whether you knew you were going to get kissed or not, the issue at hand is that you didn't stop it once it started to happen. It's no longer "what happened to me" and becomes "what I did". Which, for me, tends to be the dividing line between things that you should probably tell your partner and things you should definitely tell your partner.
You can't control when you might get randomly kissed in the future. That's not really an issue for anyone to worry about. If you can't control when you might randomly kiss someone else in the future, that's probably something worth some discussion with a person expecting monogamy and fidelity.
You're probably just an immune carrier then, the only way you don't have it is if you've only kissed one person whose also only ever kissed you.
Please provide a citation for this. Going from "lots of people have cold sores" to "you must have cooties GungHo, unless you're from the purity crowd" is a big fucking stretch. I've never had cold sores or any STD. I've never made out with someone who had an apparent cold sore or STD beyond my ex-wife, who was a dormant carrier of Hep-B (which, in that case, there really was basis for that... within a certain generation, a lot of people in East Asia have that... I was already innoculated... her mom had it, so she got it from her mom). I have been tested. Repeatedly. Recently (I do that when starting new relationships). I've never made out with someone and then saw them grow a cold sore. I've been with a number of people, made it to all bases, and yes... I put my face "down there" and no one's ever come up with a rash. Not me. Not the women. I've been with representatives of several countries and cultures from every continent except Antartica. So, I'm calling BS.
How common is oral herpes?
About 50 percent to 80 percent of the adult population in the United States has oral herpes, with as many as 90% having the virus by age 50. Most people contract oral herpes when they are children by receiving a kiss from a friend or relative.
Posts
Yes, in that one case. The option to withhold information in order to preserve peace is available to everyone, and everyone exercises it at least once. Being in a relationship doesn't mean surrendering your right to privacy.
That said, keeping a secret from someone else doesn't rob them of the ability to decide that being with you isn't in their best interest. If it isn't love, then a break up will occur anyway.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
@RocketSauce: Making out like horny chimpanzees isn't exactly "just kissing" and even then it's still owed to the other party to tell them. It's up to them whether they should care.
I certainly would.
If it's just making out like chimps, who cares?
If it's just a hand job, who cares?
If it's just oral sex, who cares?
If it's just fucking, who cares?
Where do you draw a line?
The answer is pretty obvious; couples decide where they draw that line. Both of them.
If kissing is no big deal and 'who cares?', presumably one's significant other would have no problem hearing about it and one would have no problem telling their significant other about it.
You're being irrational.
Go lie down and let the vapors pass while the strong one here makes the decisions.
In a perfect world, sure. That almost never happens though.
Honesty in the relationship? Addressing the issues that led to the cheating in the first place?
I mean if they want that sort of thing. If they don't care, then they can do whatever, I guess.
The relationship where one person thinks it's maybe okay to go makin' out with other people?
Like I said, keeping a secret is not a wholesale declaration that the other person irrational.
Also, the fact that you haven't ever lied to your wife is quite unusual, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to be able to follow your example. More so if the couple isn't even married.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
If someone is breaking up with you for some action, then obviously they don't perceive it as a non-event. I think it would simply be a pretext otherwise.
Honesty about that person's mistakes, sure. Honesty about her expectations from the relationship as well.
This sort of claim requires numeric support, I think. It really isn't all that hard to avoid lying to someone you respect.
I can't find anything, as google brings up nothing but shoddy sites. Hopefully someone else can do so.
That said, I think most posters will agree that it's rare to never lie to your spouse, ever.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
So either you're declaring them irrational for choosing their reasons to break up with you, or they are being rational and you just don't think they get to decide if screwing up once is up to them.
Apparently because Robos is the one to decide what's worth breaking up over in the relationship.
Mmm, disagree.
and you got black out drunk and _____'d someone, and only found out the next day
you would file for divorce? Let's say _____ is making out, which again has no chance of spreading disease and supposing he/she has no chance of finding out.
Willing to kiss your marriage/relationship good bye for honesty?
really?
I have never lied to my partner about infidelity. I've told him things that would probably end my public life if they became well known.
But I think it's naive to think there are never things you should tell your partner. I'm not talking about cheating constantly, having an affair, lying constantly - but it strikes me as highly unrealistic to spend your life with someone and never lie to them.
You have a poor understanding of people if you think they always know what's best for themselves.
Same.
I bolded a bit that where I'm reading it as I think it was intended. I'll concede that there are lies that don't matter but you get into important things, actual trust issues, and my stance is pretty firm. I just don't think it's respectful to the SO to lie to them, and respect's an important thing in a relationship.
I don't understand where you're coming from with this. I am an engineer, though--take that for what it's worth.
If he told me he made out with a friend of his, I would appreciate the honesty, but it might not have been for the best. I would probably become anxious, maybe begin demanding where he is, what he's doing at all times, etc. I would be upset if I found out that he was out with that person, even if they have classes/plays together, which would probably be the case.
If he honestly never did it again? Maybe I shouldn't know. I think there are instances in which you do know what's best for your partner. There probably isn't a person you know better in the world.
Disclaimer: I've only narrowly avoided cheating because the person I was going to cheat with turned out not to be interested in me. There's a thread in HA about it from last fall. I ended up confessing, though the relationship was already over by the time I did. I avoided telling her for a while because I didn't think it would help her on her graduating final exams. Turns out she knew anyway, but...well.
You really think disease can't spread from making out?
And if you don't do _____ and stay together with them, you and they will find a cure for cancer, and save millions of lives.
Then you do _____. Is it right to tell your SO?
Sorry, I thought I would just join the game of making stupid hypothetical questions that totally ignore the issue at hand.
Paraphrasing: You're walking through a desert, and you find a tortoise lying on its back. If you don't help it, it will die. Why aren't you helping it?
Okay this could count as an update I guess. I decided to listen to your advice (since it was your advice that enabled me and Ryan to get together in the first place) and told Ryan about the 'incident'. On the outside he seemed to handle it pretty well, but I know him too well to just accept the face value of things. He was hurt by it, that much I could tell. He was pretty badly hurt by knowing what I did so now I feel like utter shit for doing that to him (the kissing, not the telling him; that was for the best).
But it's highly unlikely I'll be hanging out with that mate again, and definitely not alone. How can I be sure of this? Because due to that mate's extreme "gift" for having the worst timing on Earth he shoowed up just shortly after I told Ryan what had happened. And let me tell you, from the look in Ryan's eyes as he looked at him I am now fully prepared to give that friend the boot. Cause I was honestly convinced that Ryan was going to try and kill him, or at least beat the crap out of him.
What about if it was only twice? Just half a dozen times? Only every equinox? If you can excuse one act of infidelity because knowing about it would hurt your partner, how is two any different? To the partner the first act never occurred and as such the harm from the revelation is at least as great. In most respects, if the revelation was complete it would be even more harmful as an additional act of infidelity and the added deceit would be revealed. Your partner would become much more anxious and upset and thus under that reasoning the more one cheats, the more one should not reveal it.
I mean if you're willing to embrace living a lie: in for a penny in for a pound.
And there should be a person you know better than your partner. And if you don't evaluating whether you're just lying to protect yourself or your partner would be quite difficult
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
So it's not throwing away my marriage for the sake of honesty. It's realizing neither of us are perfect and being willing to work on it because of honesty.
Don't blame the drink.
Don't blame your inability to see the future.
Blame your poor judgement.
What was your boyf's response to it all? Did he actually say anything to the other dude? Did you?
He came over and Ryan just gave him dirty looks? What happened?
And you're making it sound like it wasn't your actions that we're talking about. This wasn't a flat tire or a hail storm. This wasn't an Act of God; this wasn't an Act of KeyScourge. The only way that "I didn't know it would happen" makes sense as an excuse or extenuating circumstance is by implicitly removing your own culpability. You did know it would happen while you were doing it. The fact that you didn't have the foresight to anticipate your own actions doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that they were your actions.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between being kissed (over which you have no particular control) and making out (which requires two consenting partners). The former might be worth not telling a partner about on the basis that it stemmed from a drunken misunderstanding which is understood not to happen again, so telling would only cause hostility between the partner and the kisser. The latter requires that the kissee collaborate in the act, so whether you knew you were going to get kissed or not, the issue at hand is that you didn't stop it once it started to happen. It's no longer "what happened to me" and becomes "what I did". Which, for me, tends to be the dividing line between things that you should probably tell your partner and things you should definitely tell your partner.
You can't control when you might get randomly kissed in the future. That's not really an issue for anyone to worry about. If you can't control when you might randomly kiss someone else in the future, that's probably something worth some discussion with a person expecting monogamy and fidelity.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation