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Self Defense
DirtyDirtyVagrant
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Okay, now just for the sake of knowledge, this is the same situation I posted about early last month. Now, I'm not defending or remaking that thread in any way. Just wanna say that. This is different.
I'll just give you guys the short version and spare you the novel.
Over the last month or so this crazy psycho asshole has singled me out for some reason as the object of his harassment. He must have smelled weakness or fear or something, because he's latched onto me and he's not letting go. He was living down the hall from me and was growing ever more malicious and bold, so it was progressing into a pretty scary situation, especially since he was coming back to the building shitfaced drunk each and every night.
Then my friend and me were out on a walk, and we noticed that every time we rounded a corner, we caught a glimpse of him, and suddenly our walk became a rather unnerving game of cat and mouse as we evaded one another.
So he's stalking me now. Great. This is where the police start to get involved. Then he starts coming to my job (the store I work at) and just shoplifting and shit. Police and security never respond in time, so I'm pretty much left holding the bag when I've got to explain the missing merchandise and the police call to my employer.
You're not supposed to drink when you live where I live. They will breathalyze you and kick you out if you walk in drunk. Most of the time. They weren't touching this guy though. I literally had to bait him into going to the front desk, call the desk on my friend's phone while he was standing there, and tell the desk-person to breathalyze him.
So they booted him for the night, and the rule is that he has to come in the next day and speak to the residence manager before he can come back in. He came back in drunk, so that was the end of his residence there.
Fast forward to now. He's somehow found out about what I did. He gets on the bus today and threatens to kill me. My friend was present. We call the police, they come and take a description and set out to find him. No word.
I don't get off work until it's dark out. He knows where I live, where I work, and what time I get off. There's a little park full of trees right across the street for him to hide in.
I am scared as fuck right now. If he jumps me, what can I do to defend myself? Should I invest in mace? A knife? A tazer? What? He is huge. If it comes to fisticuffs I am gonna get mauled.
e: the short version ended up being a lot longer that I thought it'd be. Sorry.
I'll just give you guys the short version and spare you the novel.
Over the last month or so this crazy psycho asshole has singled me out for some reason as the object of his harassment. He must have smelled weakness or fear or something, because he's latched onto me and he's not letting go. He was living down the hall from me and was growing ever more malicious and bold, so it was progressing into a pretty scary situation, especially since he was coming back to the building shitfaced drunk each and every night.
Then my friend and me were out on a walk, and we noticed that every time we rounded a corner, we caught a glimpse of him, and suddenly our walk became a rather unnerving game of cat and mouse as we evaded one another.
So he's stalking me now. Great. This is where the police start to get involved. Then he starts coming to my job (the store I work at) and just shoplifting and shit. Police and security never respond in time, so I'm pretty much left holding the bag when I've got to explain the missing merchandise and the police call to my employer.
You're not supposed to drink when you live where I live. They will breathalyze you and kick you out if you walk in drunk. Most of the time. They weren't touching this guy though. I literally had to bait him into going to the front desk, call the desk on my friend's phone while he was standing there, and tell the desk-person to breathalyze him.
So they booted him for the night, and the rule is that he has to come in the next day and speak to the residence manager before he can come back in. He came back in drunk, so that was the end of his residence there.
Fast forward to now. He's somehow found out about what I did. He gets on the bus today and threatens to kill me. My friend was present. We call the police, they come and take a description and set out to find him. No word.
I don't get off work until it's dark out. He knows where I live, where I work, and what time I get off. There's a little park full of trees right across the street for him to hide in.
I am scared as fuck right now. If he jumps me, what can I do to defend myself? Should I invest in mace? A knife? A tazer? What? He is huge. If it comes to fisticuffs I am gonna get mauled.
e: the short version ended up being a lot longer that I thought it'd be. Sorry.
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Unfortuatnely you're now at the mercy of if/when he decides to do something. For the time being until you're sure he's been dealt with, try to go around with a friend or stay in lighted areas. If you're heading out somewhere, let a roommate or friend know where you're going to be so in case something happens they can get help to you quickly.
All in all just be prepared (not paranoid) and try to keep doing things the way you're doing.
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Just go out with a friend if it's dark and no one's about for a while. And don't talk to this guy at all. ever.
Also, make sure to keep calling the police whenever he does something. It'll create a nice paper trail if it ever becomes necessary to have one.
I can't really comment on actual self defense, I don't know anything about it.
I mean, if he really wants to he will come after you anyway, but if it's at all possible to get a restraining order put on him before any physical confrontation, when it happened he would get in that much more legal shit.
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You could try that (alongside all the other great advice)...
I suggest getting some mace or pepper spray for the time being and the urgency, but if you can.. DO take a self defense/martial arts class. It'll be another thing to eventually help you out if you need it.
and for the love of God... don't shank the dude. That'll just get you in deep shit, cause you know.... murder, and all.
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don't get a knife, knives are bad self-defense weapons. Plus if he takes it from you after you fail to use it correctly, then that's a problem
don't be alone for a while. Stay with a friend if you can and let the cops look around. Maybe call them and ask for some protection around your place and where you work when you get off at night. They'll at least patrol a little more frequently
you don't need to be touched to get a restraining order but I do believe the person being restrained needs to be notified about it, and if this guy has disappeared, it means exactly diddly
if you bring any sort of weapon into a fight, you should expect to have it used against you
If he does try to grab you, the first priority is escape. Mace is useful to give you a head start but if you can't get it out of your pocket in time two useful back ups are a knee or kick you the groin or a kick to the shin. If you go for the shin kick, actually kick and stomp so the side of your foot scrapes right down his shin. Hopeilly one of these options distracts him long enough for you to make a run for it and may slow his pursuit. Flee to the nearest populated area, even in preference to your own house.
Get a mobile phone if you don't have one, keep it charged up and turned on and have the police on speed dial. You shouldn't even need a contract or credits to make emergency calls, so any cheap handset will do. Call the police immediately if you ever get into trouble.
Stay in public areas. Keep people around you, especially bigger people if possible.
If you feel your spider-sense going off, listen to it. We have fight or flight instincts for a reason.
It sounds like you should listen to your flight instinct. Be aware of routes you can take that will put you into public areas if you're chased. DO NOT LET IT COME TO FISTICUFFS. Hopefully, you're faster than this guy. If not, you're smarter.
Do not invest in weapons. Tasers and knives are too tricky to be wielded in self-defense by someone who's untrained. Mace or pepper spray might be more useful, but it could also backfire (say if you miss) or you might piss him off more.
There's no effective way to learn self-defense over a forum and you don't have time to take any lessons. I would recommend them when you have the opportunity. IF it comes down to a fight, close-quarters self-defense relies on two basic rules:
1. Hard parts of your body (elbows, knees, maybe fists) against the soft parts of his (eyes, throat, nose, groin). Fight dirty if you have to, gouge eyes, scratch his face, tear his ear.
2. Hit him in the groin.
Overall, run. Avoid confrontation. Keep a safety net of people around you.
If you do find yourself alone, have your phone at the ready. Have 911 ready. Even having your phone out can be a deterrent.
Best case: keep people/friends around you. If that's not feasible, pepper spray would be your friend in this case. The strong stuff takes the fight out of everyone. If you are walking alone, keep your eyes up.
Worst case: flatten out your hand with a slight curve in the knuckles and jab your middle fingers straight into his eye as fast/hard as you can. That will seriously fuck somebody's shit up, and requires almost no training at all. Then run, even if you didn't hit him square.
between doc and I we've taken martial arts for more years than most of you have been alive. if the op fighting the guy was a credible option, the op would most likely know it and not be posting. By all means, take a class for its own sake, but if it's a perfect class it will still be maybe a year before you realize much out of it. If you want short term physical improvement to keep you safe, jog.
Pepper spray isn't a bad idea. if you get some, make sure it's a brand that shoots a stream like a squirt gun - you don't want a "fogger" type (they sell these for dogs and bears and stuff and they are often cheaper than self defense brands but you do NOT want to use one in a building).
If you get one, shoot it at least once, outdoors, down-wind.
Another option to legally arm yourself to some degree: There are a number of flashlights between 5 and 7 inches that happen to be made out of aluminum or titanium. Many of them are marketed to first responders and have special tips for breaking windshields on the reverse, as well as a super-bright light.
The key to using any weapon, from your fists or a roll of quarters on up to a colt .45, is to have it handy and ready when you need it, you need to know what it really does and doesn't do, and be mentally ready to use it. This is the problem with just buying the weapon and forgetting about it - lots of cans of pepper spray have been completely forgotten on keychains or buried in purses over the years.
I take it from your post you guys either live in a dorm or halfway house. in either case, if whatever immediate advisor you have isn't demonstrating enough action, you will have to think about going over his head. First, try again with your residential advisor. The key phrase is "I don't feel you're meeting your obligation to keep me safe"
This WILL work on your campus' administration.
Document everything the guy does. Keep a small notebook and log his interactions with you as best you can.
Do not be drawn into his narrative. Don't debate specifics with him. Stalkers function from a sense of entitlement and a sort of heliocentrism - engagement itself justifies what they are doing to them. In his mind, if he's a big enough part of your life to be a threat you have to get rid of, he's too big a part of your life to be a "stalker" if that makes sense (it really doesn't except in crazy asshole world but that's my point). Don't say anything to the guy except "go away" "leave me alone" "I don't know you, I don't want to talk to you" etc. With obvious caveats - if the guy has you cornered or something and you think humoring him will get out out of that corner fast, do it.
Tell some trusted people but don't spread it all over the building. You might say, "hey fuck that guy, I can tell anyone I want" and you're ethically correct but the reason for this is the more this looks like some sort of normal "drama" to him, the realer you are making that fake narrative.
Remember his mental health is a card you may play - when you're having that talk with your residential authorities make sure you put forth the point that you feel this guy is a legitimate danger to himself and others.
Take common sense measures like having your keys out when you walk to the car, not overloading yourself, staying out of dark areas, etc.
Put safety ahead of pride. If you feel like you need someone around, keep someone around.
Keep reporting him to the police, if nothing else because the complaints being on file somewhere may help you later.
Finally, to literally answer your final question, you can do almost anything you need to do to defend yourself. The key to doing so legally (although I am not a lawyer and this is just general advice) is generally to attempt to de-escalate and retreat from the conflict, and to not take excessive measures. Self defense becomes assault when you don't stop. A guy comes at you with a knife and you shoot him? Self defense. You shoot him 12 times? Not going to look as much like self defense. A guy attacks you and you punch him? Self defense. The punch knocks him down and you kick his ribs in when you could have left? Not going to look as much like self defense.
Much of justifying something as self defense is in how it looks after the fact. The key thing you want to put forth is that you took the actions you took because you were in fear of your life, and that you did as little as possible - that all the actions you took were needed. A bad statement would be, "He jumped me so I hit him and knocked him on his ass, and I was like, "That's what you get, stay down," but then he jumped up and tackled me, so I stuck my thumb in his eye and rolled him off of me and when he tried to crawl away I maced him and then kicked him in the balls six times."
While a good statement describing similar events would be, "He came up to me, I said, "what do you want" and he tried to grab me. I pushed him down and told him to stop. He didn't stop. He got up and reached for me so I hit him again while yelling for help. He started to hit me so I tried to run but he tackled me and after that I don't remember what happened exactly, I was too scared, but I got out from under him somehow and I made it to my car but he was still behind me and I didn't have time to unlock it so I pepper sprayed him with this stupid pepper spray my mom gave me that I never thought I'd need (starts crying)"
Also, another huge thing for establishing that you are on the side of good is to be the guy who calls it in and works with the police, and to do so promptly.
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Thirding this. Martial arts is a grind. It's not *rocky training montage* ready to kick ass and take names. I trained in MA for about 7 years collectively and I think I'm maybe just about at a stage where if I was attacked I could possibly use some of the basics I learned over those years. On balance I'd prefer to just avoid any situation where I'm likely to have to test what I've learned in a situation off the mats.
The first step in self defence is to avoid confrontations.
The second step in self defence is to get away from a confrontation as quickly as possible with as little injury to yourself as possible.
Only once those options are exhausted should you consider resorting to fighting - either armed or unarmed - and to be honest, if your assailant has managed to prevent you from acting on steps one and two, he probably has a contingency plan in place in the event that you know kung fu.
How? Be aware.
Every play Metal Gear Solid? Of course you have. You know the little danger thing when someone sees you and everybody freaks out? You need to be thinking like those guards (only, you know, smarter). Be aware of your surroundings. Be an active participant in your walk home, not just going through the motions.
Take note of people who are usually home (lights on, car in the driveway) along your route and remember that. If you have to run from this dude, and you can't get someplace public like a store, a persons house is the next best bet. Most people (this guy might not be most) will be hesitant to get into anything on someone elses doorstep, and the people in the house will be quick to call the cops.
Also take note of vehicles (does this dude have a car?). I park in a large garage at home, and some people NEVER vary their parking spaces. This can be a detriment if someone is harboring some kind of malice toward them (as the dude whose Corvette's rims got stolen this week would attest to).
In all just be aware of your surroundings, potential destinations if shit goes south and you can help yourself a great deal.
If in doubt, and this prick shows up and starts trying to start something gtfo and start yelling for help. It might sound cowardly or whatever, but this is your life. You only get one.
Go to an Army Store, buy a little thing of Mace. It will f that guy up, and also sprays a dye so he is clearly labelled as having gotten Maced.
On a side note, Mace makes an excellent gift for a sister or a female friend. I got it for my sister and she thinks it's the coolest thing ever.
My friend took marshal arts for years and was still badly beaten by 2 random guys about his own size and weight who had no training. I imagine one huge guy would be similar. Running away is always your best option.
The thing about my route home is that there are no houses with cars in the driveway. There's a few businesses that are closed, the civic center, an abandoned library, and an apartment complex locked up with big iron gates. The area is not well lit at all. My only option I guess is to have my friends walk home with me for a while.
Oh yeah, somebody stole my phone. So if he jumps me, I'm double-fucked. Where can I buy the strong mace? What does one look for when they buy it? Is there like a rating or something? Is it really gonna stop him, or is he going to fly into a blind rage and hurt me that much worse? I just ask because, you know, movies...*sigh*
Its funny you mention kung fu, because I actually do know a bit. I've been studying tai chi chuan for like four months, but my dedication to it is somewhere on a level beneath 'passing hobby.' I do it for fun. It's not something I ever plan on using for self defense, and I have no illusions about my abilities. Hitting this guy would be like hitting a tractor tire. He's 5'9 and probably weighs 275 lbs.
The exact conversation we had on the bus went something like this. (Some of the things he said I didn't hear)
Him: You. I need to talk to you. I know you got me kicked out.
Me: What? No. Where'd you hear that? Whoever told you that is full of shit.
Him: No hey. Shut up. I know, okay? They told me. Now when you and me get off this bus, we're gonna fight.
Me: Nah. I'm not fighting you.
Him: You're gonna have to. What else are you gonna do?
Me: Call the cops I guess.
Him: (Backs up a bit, looking almost surprised) Oh, you're gonna call the cops, huh?
Me: Looks like I might have to. You're not exactly giving me a-
Him: (Interrupts me, points a finger in my face) I'm gonna fucking kill you. You owe me money. (He actually says the first part just as my friend starts making a ruckus, and then he says I owe him money almost as an afterthought as he walks away.
(Friend gets up hearing the 'you're gonna have to', demands that the bus driver calls the police, and the bus driver refuses. In fact, a lady on the bus literally told my friend to sit down and leave this poor man alone. Or at least that's what he related to me later.)
Oh. One thing of note is that when we did call the police shortly afterward, it took them a half hour plus to show up.
Edit: Also, thanks everyone. I really appreciate it. Also I changed the last parts for the sake of clarity.
Also, where do you live?
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Seriously. Take this advice. The time it's going to take for you to learn any form of self-defense technique and/or implement sounds like going to be waaaay longer than the time frame in which this situation is going to resolve itself. You have the right to defend yourself, and you should, but don't plan on picking up a gun/knife/pepper spray and being able to do it at anywhere near a proficient level within about a year's time (of intense training). Do not cause the situation to escalate to a level where deadly force is involved by carrying a weapon with you until you are sure you can and will use it if need be. Avoid a confrontation with this person at all costs. Stay somewhere else for a while, always travel with someone else, etc. until the situation is resolved with law enforcement's assistance.
Also this.
This is very important.
Is there anyone else at your work while you're working? Make sure they're aware of the situation and what the guy looks like in case he comes skulking around.
Work on getting a restraining order as soon as possible.
Do what JohnnyCache says in regards to getting your ResLife people to help you.
Can you run in the shoes you wear to work? Do you think you can outrun/outpace this guy? It's usually the best solution if you can in fact get away.
I was recently party to an incident where a girl at my school was sexually assulted- in broad daylight on a street corner of two busy streets at 8 in the morning on sunday directly outside the school . A couple of us from the class went looking for the fucker-no dice-(we responded pretty quickly as she ran into the room bawling less than a minute after babbling about what happened) and I called the cops immediately and it still took them about an hour to show up. Granted this was in Los Angeles so the LAPD propably has slightly bigger issues seeing as no one was seriously injured.
Get the mace.. and start jogging. Interval sprints wouldnt be a bad idea either. 5'9 - 275.. Tubby cant beat you if he cant catch you
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If it does come down to a confrontation, try to talk your way out of it IF it doesn't reduce your chances of escape. Don't let him get NEAR arm's reach. If he gets within 7-10 feet, fucking bolt. Run your ass off toward the nearest place where there are other people. While you're running, get your mace out in case he's faster than you and use it as soon as he gets close enough.
Most of this has already been said, and I'll also second the idea of logging your interactions with this guy. When it comes to justifying your actions to the Justice System, you want to be able to establish a clear pattern of threatening behavior. Write names, places,date and times, witnesses, and exactly what was said.
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If it's a person who knows shit about you and is trying to start something, why would you mace them?
Put yourself in his shoes. You were kicked out of your place to live. You hate Dirty for no real reason. And you're a violent douche. So this guy you want to fight suddenly maces you. Are you going to leave him alone? Hell no! He just REALLY pissed you off! You're going to wait outside his place, make sure he can't spray you, and THEN really beat the shit out of him. You're not even going to try to fight -- you're gonna bring a baseball bat and sneak up on the pepper-spraying jerk.
Get a restraining order which, while it won't stop him from harassing you completely, will a) set up precedent that he's a douche, so if he punches you you can go to the police/court, and, b) provide non-confrontational ammunition for when he does bother you again. So if he does confront you at a bus stop you can say "Dude, leave me alone -- I got a restraining order against you, because I don't want anything to do with you and you keep harrassing me."
But yeah, stay with friends if possible, and try to get a phone again. Even a pre-paid jobby will suit you fine for dealing with this guy. If he jumps you tonight, or before you get a phone, just make sure to yell as loud as you can "HELP THIS GUY IS TRYING TO KILL ME." Or get one of those rape whistles (even though you're a dude, they're still a great way to get people's attention).
On the plus side, if he was truly going to sneak up on you and beat your ass, he probably would have already done it. He's trying to scare you and provoke you. That's why he's confronting you and trying to start a fight, rather than just coming out swinging. He's pissed off and the only way he knows how to handle it is to "fight," but deep down he knows that he can't just sneak up on a dude and jump him, beating the shit out of him. So he keeps trying to scare you and provoke you, so you agree to "fight" him. In that vein, keep doing what you're doing by refusing to fight with him, and by telling him to leave you alone because you're never going to fight him.
Erm, the plan with the pepper spray isn't to spray the guy as soon as you see him, then run away with the villain vanquished. It's to spray him if worst comes to worst and the guy attacks the OP. It's strictly a short-term tool to let the OP get away and call the police and say "This fucker attacked me in the street." The police and others already have reports of the guy making death threats.
Eggy is beyond over reacting about the mace. Mace works because it disables quickly and gives you a chance to escape. This is why I carry it. When you're attacked and you feel like your life may be in danger (been there, done that, wish I had the mace and not a plastic mug to defend myself with but hey, it worked and now I carry mace) it gives you a chance to escape and as Kal has pointed out, you then have the chance to call the cops and have his ass arrested for attacking you and then a restraining order is going to be easy to get.
If you feel you MUST have some sort of weapon I would recommend a cane or extendable baton [pending state laws on such items]. A good cane can look fashionable and an effective self defense tool. Either a thick city stick with metal toper, an African Walking stick, or an Irish Blackthorne Cane all make good ready to use items in a pinch. Other wise if they are legal to carry in your area an extendable baton [aka ASP] are painful deterrents to back up. They collapse into basicly what equates to a bicycle handle and extend out with the flick of the wrist. I will warn that you never strike the neck or head with one unless you want to severely injure or kill the guy as they can break the skull if you strike with the tip of it. Both give reach and will make them think twice about advancing after a good hit giving you time to yell for help or get away.
If you want to learn self defense I would recommend either Muy Tai or Gracie Combatives. Muy Tai is intesive but Gracie combat claims that they can teach anyone of any condition of to protect themselves in a street fight.
... after he's taken safety and training courses in order to properly know how to use his weapon and not fuck up and knows he won't lose his shit and freak out and fire wildly and end up making shit a whole lot worse.
On top of this, from the sounds of it the OP lives in a college dorm which make up all sorts of regulations and their own definitions of legal terms. This can extend to outlaw kitchen knives, pocket knives, and box cutters to say nothing of pepper spray and other stuff actually designed for defense.
Options may be severely, severely limited given this and the very questionable quality of some campus security.
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Which is why I mentioned a walking stick. No cane is outlawed anyway.
ASPs are illegal most places. Muay thai is a great fighting art, but like any art you need no less then 6 months to it to even begin to wrest serious proficiency out of it. Gracie Combatives is a terrible learn-at-home version of Brazilian jiu-jitsu that Helio Gracie would be ashamed of.
a young man with a cane, btw, never, ever looks fashionable. Jesus.
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