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[Rumour on]: New PSP without UMD drive to be announced this E3, coming this fall

24

Posts

  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Sony's stated reason for a lack of rumble was that it was physically impossible. Yes, we ALL knew that they were lying, but that lie is ALSO a sign of Sony arrogance.

    And the Kojima line is because he insisted that he wanted rumble for MGS4.
    I'd agree that it's arrogant to lie and assume your audience are dumb enough to believe it but I don't really think there are any game publishers that don't lie to the audience. Microsoft with their continual denial of the RROD in its first year or so, etc.

    Just because Kojima wanted rumble back doesn't mean he was the reason they brought it back.
    I'm not saying that the PSP should continue on the way it is. I'm saying that if the hardware has stagnated, then make a PSP2. Don't take the current model, REMOVE FEATURES, and then call it "new and improved."

    So you're saying that instead of releasing a new system which also benefits existing PSP owners, they should've given up on existing PSP owners entirely and brought out a new system?

    This argument is pretty pointless at this stage anyway, all we have to go on are rumours and hearsay. I doubt it's even going to be called the 'PSP Go', that's just a PSP-3000 bundle SCEE have released.
    Evander wrote: »
    Sony and developers will always have expectations.

    After the initial launch buzz, hardware sales will be low, because folks will not like the whole having to download all fo their games thing.

    Software sales will be low because A) hardware sales will be low, and B) consumers depend on the used game market to justify their game purchases. Without any resale value or store credit going towards new purchases, they cuts out 1 or 2 thirds of software sales.

    Software sales are already really low, so I don't know what your point is. They can't get much worse at this point.

    If anything, it'll probably encourage a lot more small downloadable games for the PSP, which is exactly what would work well on the PSP (more so than all the shitty console ports anyway). Games like PixelJunk Eden, Bionic Commando: Rearmed, Noby Noby Boy and Crash Commando would work really well on the PSP and they'd never get UMD releases in the first place.

    Unco-ordinated on
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  • DisDis Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    PSP Gaming sales are really high in JAPAN for CO-OP games like Monster Hunter G which sold over a million in Japan but under 200k in US.

    Dis on
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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dis wrote: »
    PSP Gaming sales are really high in JAPAN for CO-OP games like Monster Hunter G which sold over a million in Japan but under 200k in US.

    You mean Monster Hunter 2G? It's not out in the US or Europe yet (if my memory serves me correctly, it's being renamed Monster Hunter Unite).

    But yeah, the PSP has been doing pretty well in Japan but elsewhere, it's been doing dismally. The US hardware sales are decent but the software salres are dismal And in Europe, it's doing even worse.The reality is that it really needs a reboot and the UMD-less PSP may be it.

    And since I've already got a PSP, I'm pretty glad they're doing it. Better that than my PSP continue to gather dust because the software releases were drying up (outside of Patapon 2 and Square Enix's games).

    Unco-ordinated on
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  • ReiRei New YorkRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    So is it safe to assume a PSP without a UMD drive would be cheaper? I wouldn't mind picking up a cheaper PSP and be able to download all some games to a memory stick. There's a few games I've always wanted to pick up but haven't been able to justify a purchase.

    Rei on
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Rei wrote: »
    So is it safe to assume a PSP without a UMD drive would be cheaper? I wouldn't mind picking up a cheaper PSP and be able to download all some games to a memory stick. There's a few games I've always wanted to pick up but haven't been able to justify a purchase.

    I expect it to be priced at 200. Maybe 179, but not cheaper than that. Any higher and it's suicide.

    Though this is Sony we're talking about.

    Kyougu on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    To be honest I am glad Sony is the one trying this out.

    If it's a success then we will definitely know it: a complete turnaround for the PSP. And if it fails then it's merely one more in a string of mismanaged devices.

    UncleSporky on
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  • DisDis Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Rei wrote: »
    So is it safe to assume a PSP without a UMD drive would be cheaper? I wouldn't mind picking up a cheaper PSP and be able to download all some games to a memory stick. There's a few games I've always wanted to pick up but haven't been able to justify a purchase.

    It will be MORE EXPENSIVE.
    Reason = LARGER SCREEN(HIGHER RES) + TOUCH SCREEN.

    Dis on
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  • MugaazMugaaz Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think anyone making firm predicitions about how a purely digitial distribution model is going to change consumer spending patterns are insanely egotistical. No one knows this yet, it hasn't been done on a large scale at all. Steam is not an indicator or predictor of how it would work for a system like the PSP. If you want to predict that the new PSP is a dumb and going to fail I think that is a valid prediction, but this new sales model for software is still a complete unknown at this point. If Joe Cheapskate normally waits until he can buy a game used at 60-70% of the original MSRP no longer has the option of doing so is he going to stop gaming completely, buy less games, buy a number of games equal to the previous dollar amount he was spending, or buy the same number of games as before? Anyone giving a firm prediction of this is completely full of it in my opinion.

    Mugaaz on
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Dis wrote: »
    Rei wrote: »
    So is it safe to assume a PSP without a UMD drive would be cheaper? I wouldn't mind picking up a cheaper PSP and be able to download all some games to a memory stick. There's a few games I've always wanted to pick up but haven't been able to justify a purchase.

    It will be MORE EXPENSIVE.
    Reason = LARGER SCREEN(HIGHER RES) + TOUCH SCREEN.

    It'd be neat if it had a touch screen but most of the rumours are saying it won't. I doubt it'll have a bigger screen either.

    Like I said before, we'll have to wait until they announce it to properly speculate over how many changes they'll make. My guess though, is that the internal memory will be the main reason why it's a bit more expensive. It might have some extra RAM too (the PSP-2000 had more RAM than the original PSP) but that's dirt cheap anyway.

    Unco-ordinated on
    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'm intrigued. How do you think Gamestop will try to wedge themselves into the digital distribution equation? I'm not mocking, I'm certain they are planning exactly that. But how will it work?

    Honestly, I have no idea.

    All that I know is that the team exists to figure this out.

    So far Gamestop has acted as a middle man for DigiDistro for folks who don't have/want to use credit cards, letting them buy vouchers in-store with cash. The whole wanting to use cash thing is, of course, a side fo DigiDistro a lot of folk ignore.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    I'm not saying that the PSP should continue on the way it is. I'm saying that if the hardware has stagnated, then make a PSP2. Don't take the current model, REMOVE FEATURES, and then call it "new and improved."

    So you're saying that instead of releasing a new system which also benefits existing PSP owners, they should've given up on existing PSP owners entirely and brought out a new system?

    Who is giving up on what? A PSP 2 could easily keep the UMD drive, but have more powerful hardware, or more features, which would, in turn, draw more popularity.

    And HOW IN THE HELL does the PSP Go! benefit existing users? All it does is REMOVE features.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Mugaaz wrote: »
    I think anyone making firm predicitions about how a purely digitial distribution model is going to change consumer spending patterns are insanely egotistical.

    I'm an economist who has spent a great deal of time working one-on-one with video game consumers.

    As an economist I recognize, off the bat, that there could be other unforeseen factors to invalidate my predictions. That's how economics goes (it is a lot like meteorology in that sense.)

    It's not egotistical of me to apply myself to this problem and share my solutions.

    Evander on
  • ShadowrunnerShadowrunner Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    No UMD means you can't buy used games (if they were download only), so I'm not a big fan of the idea.

    Shadowrunner on
  • DisDis Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    No UMD means you can't buy used games (if they were download only), so I'm not a big fan of the idea.

    Unless Digital Downloads = Cheaper Games.
    Otherwise games will be more expensive since u can't buy used games.
    The greater concern is the DRM protection they will be using.

    Dis on
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  • DisDis Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    I'm intrigued. How do you think Gamestop will try to wedge themselves into the digital distribution equation? I'm not mocking, I'm certain they are planning exactly that. But how will it work?

    Honestly, I have no idea.

    All that I know is that the team exists to figure this out.

    So far Gamestop has acted as a middle man for DigiDistro for folks who don't have/want to use credit cards, letting them buy vouchers in-store with cash. The whole wanting to use cash thing is, of course, a side fo DigiDistro a lot of folk ignore.

    Being a BIG RETAIL COMPANY, the easiest way for them to take over STEAM or IMPULSE.

    Dis on
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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Who is giving up on what? A PSP 2 could easily keep the UMD drive, but have more powerful hardware, or more features, which would, in turn, draw more popularity.

    And HOW IN THE HELL does the PSP Go! benefit existing users? All it does is REMOVE features.

    What? You're suggesting that the PSP2 support the UMD? Sure, why not? I always wished the GC supported the N64 cartridges and I hope the XBox 720 supports HD-DVD.

    More powerful hardware? On the last page you were insulting Sony for being arrogant and now you're suggesting they continue to? The DS and Wii have quite clearly shown that having the most powerful hardware doesn't matter and is only going to cost a crapload of money (and Sony aren't exactly in a position to lose money).

    And I thought it's pretty obvious why a new PSP benefits existing users. Instead of the system dying off, it will continue to get new games. Even if they do only release games via digital distribution (which won't happen for a couple of years anyway), all existing PSP owners (including the ones with hacked systems) can connect them to the PSN and buy games off of it.

    Btw, UMD isn't going anywhere for at least a couple of years, so Gamestop will just sell those games. They also sell the PSN cards don't they? And there'll always be the good old 'code in a case' (ala Patapon 2 and GTA4 DLC).

    Unco-ordinated on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Who is giving up on what? A PSP 2 could easily keep the UMD drive, but have more powerful hardware, or more features, which would, in turn, draw more popularity.

    And HOW IN THE HELL does the PSP Go! benefit existing users? All it does is REMOVE features.

    What? You're suggesting that the PSP2 support the UMD? Sure, why not? I always wished the GC supported the N64 cartridges and I hope the XBox 720 supports HD-DVD.

    How about the Gameboy Advance supporting original gameboy games, or the DS supporting gameboy advance games?

    We're talking about handhelds, not home consoles. With handhelds folks only carry around one unit, rather than being able to leave their old systems still hooked up to the TV.



    You've also COMPLETELY ignored how the Wii plays GCN games, or how the 360 plays SOME OXbox games, or how SOME PS3s play PS2 games. Pretty selective memory on your part.
    More powerful hardware? On the last page you were insulting Sony for being arrogant and now you're suggesting they continue to? The DS and Wii have quite clearly shown that having the most powerful hardware doesn't matter and is only going to cost a crapload of money (and Sony aren't exactly in a position to lose money).

    Offering consumers something that they can't get elsewhere isn't arrogant if they WANT it.

    If Sony's goal is honestly still to outsell the DS, then they should just pack it in right now, they've got no chance.

    The smart thing to do is to go for the portion of the market that the DS doesn't satisfy. In this case, that means adding a bit of power to the system, which was the PSP's distinction from the get-go.

    Evander on
  • NailbunnyPDNailbunnyPD Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    UMD == Betamax

    Get over it Evander.

    NailbunnyPD on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I wouldn't be shocked if part of the UMD removal comes from embarassment/annoyance/some other emotion over how UMD as a broader format never took off.

    Sillier things have happened. The N64 used carts mainly because the Nintendo high brass was still smarting/egotistical from the explosion of the CD SNES add-on partnership with Sony, and vowed not to use CDs no matter how useful they were.

    cloudeagle on
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  • DisDis Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I wouldn't be shocked if part of the UMD removal comes from embarassment/annoyance/some other emotion over how UMD as a broader format never took off.

    Sillier things have happened. The N64 used carts mainly because the Nintendo high brass was still smarting/egotistical from the explosion of the CD SNES add-on partnership with Sony, and vowed not to use CDs no matter how useful they were.

    And thus pushing PS3 to use B-D leading to it's success in the format war against HD-DVD.
    Sony lost BETA but won with B-D by selling PS3 at a loss of cos.

    Dis on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    UMD == Betamax

    Get over it Evander.

    A) Everyone knows what Betamax is. That's like linking to Wikipedia incase some one is unfamiliar with what an elephant is, in the middle of a conversation about animals.

    B) No one removed the Beta slot for a Beta player, and then put it back out on the market. THAT would have been insane.

    Evander on
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    UMD == Betamax

    Get over it Evander.

    A) Everyone knows what Betamax is. That's like linking to Wikipedia incase some one is unfamiliar with what an elephant is, in the middle of a conversation about animals.

    B) No one removed the Beta slot for a Beta player, and then put it back out on the market. THAT would have been insane.

    No a good comparison, as there's still going to be ways to play games on the new psp model, which is the system's intended purpose.

    Personally I'm excited for the PSP Go, but that's hinging on a lot of things.

    Kyougu on
  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    And HOW IN THE HELL does the PSP Go! benefit existing users? All it does is REMOVE features.

    Presumably the PSP Go! will benefit consumers in some other way. Such as being smaller, having a larger screen, being cheaper. Really we have no idea yet since we have very few details. But yeah, I certainly wouldn't want to buy it if its just replace UMDs with internal storage. (Memory stick prices aren't that bad anymore)

    greeble on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    And HOW IN THE HELL does the PSP Go! benefit existing users? All it does is REMOVE features.

    Presumably the PSP Go! will benefit consumers in some other way. Such as being smaller, having a larger screen, being cheaper. Really we have no idea yet since we have very few details. But yeah, I certainly wouldn't want to buy it if its just replace UMDs with internal storage. (Memory stick prices aren't that bad anymore)

    None of that is of benefit to EXISTING users.



    And without much info to go on, we have to look at SOny's past behavior. In the past, with the PS3, their modus operandi has been to remove features without significant decreases in price, and then to simply add HDD space in lieu of a price cut.

    Evander on
  • h8b1llg8tsh8b1llg8ts Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I keep hearing hope ... hope ... hope. But what buisness decisions have you seen in the last four years tells you Sony is listening to the public? They do what they want and have suffered the consequences since then. They haven't supported their old systems at all but make you keep buying a PS2. What makes you think that they are going to transfer you UMD games and movies to digital. Have they done anything to support PS2 games? Don't they make you buy your PS1 games over again to play it on the go?

    As a gamer I know I'm going to have to keep my PSP 2000 for all my UMD games. Just like I'm going to have to keep my PS2 to play all my old Playstation library.

    h8b1llg8ts on
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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I guess the reason I'm excited for the PSP Go is that I would be a new PSP user, so I don't have to worry about UMD transfers and all that. Also, my experience with the PS3's PSN store has been really good, as it's easily my favorite of all the downloadble services, so that gives me hope for the PSP's refocus on digital content.

    Kyougu on
  • NailbunnyPDNailbunnyPD Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    No one removed the Beta slot for a Beta player, and then put it back out on the market. THAT would have been insane.

    As formats change (or methods of delivery,) the old formats die. (Beta:VHS|UMD:DD) You cite a short list of systems that are backwards compatible, but a fair comparison might be to compare the bulk of systems that have offered it vs those that have not.

    Its only recently that we've become accustomed to backwards compatible technology in consoles (I'm of the opinion that the PS2 sort of set that standard), and as we've seen in consoles, its not always necessary, practical, or possible. For those that can't let go of the old technology, niche markets can be addressed independently (used markets, third party, etc.)

    For PSP users with UMDs, their niche market will be the original PSP design, which we haven't seen any indication that the UMD capable PSPs are being discontinued with the release of the new. When that day comes, there are plenty of UMD capable PSPs to go around in the used market.

    Sony has already established that they are comfortable with this by removing PS2 BC from the PS3, while the PS2 is still widely available in a package that is not the PS3.

    In the end, Sony would be naive to think that UMD can be as profitable as download sales. They aren't looking backwards with this decision, but forwards. Download sales can reduce production and delivery costs, in addition to affecting the rampant piracy plaguing the system. If you want more developers and new games, then Sony needs to make this change.

    NailbunnyPD on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Its only recently that we've become accustomed to backwards compatible technology in consoles (I'm of the opinion that the PS2 sort of set that standard)

    Yeah, I've never heard of a Gameboy either...


    edit: seriously, though, the console market works differently from the handheld market. The fact that people don't carry around legacy handhelds in order to pay their old games is VERY different, because with a console, you can leave a legacy system hooked up to your tv without it making your pocket look bulgy.



    Additionally, games are different from movies, so those formats aren't really a good parallel either. Games cost more (making folks less likely to replace them in a new format) and folks also tend to re-play games more often than they re-watch the same movies, so compatibility with old stuff matters more.

    Also:

    Samsung-Launches-three-New-DVD-VHS-Combo-Players-2.jpg

    Evander on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    They aren't looking backwards with this decision, but forwards.

    By removing a feature. How Orwellian.

    Look, I do get the crux of your argument, in that older features get left behind as new formats come out.

    But... this isn't the PSP2. It's a new version of the PSP. The same format. With a feature removed.

    If Sony really wanted to go this route, they should have started with a clean slate and just moved up to the PSP2. That way, no one would really miss the UMDs.

    But with a UMD-less PSP, suddenly new PSP owners don't have access to most of the PSP's library. True, we could be pleasantly surprised and Sony will find a way to let us play with every single PSP game ever, but given that it's Sony it's at least equally likely they'll drag their feet or give up entirely on making older PSP games available. That's why people are annoyed.

    cloudeagle on
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  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    How does DSi help existing users. I don't really understand. (the old psp will be able to play ALL of the PSP Go!'s games unlike the DS <-> DSi.)

    And yes, the psps out there in the world will mean more game releases.

    greeble on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    How does DSi help existing users. I don't really understand. (the old psp will be able to play ALL of the PSP Go!'s games unlike the DS <-> DSi.)

    And yes, the psps out there in the world will mean more game releases.

    But the fact remains that the new PSP may only be able to play a fraction of the PSP's library.

    And Greeble, you know full well following the sales thread that PSPs have always sold well, yet the games dried up to a trickle a couple of years ago. The reason we're getting more game releases now is that Sony is suddenly doing a much better job of encouraging/paying companies to make games for the thing (which they should have started doing at least a year and a half ago).

    cloudeagle on
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  • NailbunnyPDNailbunnyPD Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    some other irrelvant crap.

    I said the PS2 set that standard. I am quite aware of the BC offerings of the Nintendo handhelds, but I don't feel consumers came to expect it until the PS2's PS1 compatibility.

    Coincidentally, the DS changed the Nintendo handheld BC around. It no longer supported GB and GBC games. *GASP* And now the new fangled DSi only plays DS games. *HEART ATTACK*

    Last I heard, simply buying a new machine does not break your old machine.


    And yes, you found a picture of a VHS/DVD player that served to fill a niche market. *clap*

    NailbunnyPD on
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  • SparrowSparrow Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Could Sony not just release all previous UMD games via the virtual store for new "PSP GO!" users, and then update the older PSP models to allow them to download the newer games? We already know the current PSPs are capable of running multiple backups from the amount of people who have hacked systems, and even Sony's official firmware allows for 'download and go' from the PSN.

    Then all your left with is crossing your fingers and praying people are ready for digital distributions as their main source of games.

    Sparrow on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sparrow wrote: »
    Could Sony not just release all previous UMD games via the virtual store for new "PSP GO!" users, and then update the older PSP models to allow them to download the newer games? We already know the current PSPs are capable of running multiple backups from the amount of people who have hacked systems, and even Sony's official firmware allows for 'download and go' from the PSN.

    Then all your left with is crossing your fingers and praying people are ready for digital distributions as their main source of games.

    Of course! That scenario wouldn't be too bad.

    ...but this is Sony we're talking about, who cheerfully removed BC from the PS3, insists on keeping that system's price high despite the fact that everyone and their dog are screaming at them to lower it, and offers only a tiny fraction of PSX games for download here that that have available over PSN in Japan for a loooong time.

    There's reason to be skeptical.

    cloudeagle on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I am quite aware of the BC offerings of the Nintendo handhelds, but I don't feel consumers came to expect it until the PS2's PS1 compatibility.

    Oh, so you look at reality, and perceive the exact opposite.

    Interesting. Good to know.



    How's the weather in Bizzaro World today?

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    How does DSi help existing users.

    Honestly, I don't think it does.

    The difference between the DSi and the rumored the PSP Go!, though, is that the DSi offered significant additional functionality in exchange for removing BC and a rarely used(outside fo BC) auxilary slot.

    Removing BC without adding other features is consumer negative. If you make up for the removal with a ton of other features, then at worst, it is consumer neutral.

    Evander on
  • RakaiRakai Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Why are we even discussing BC? The rumors point to this being a PSP revision, not a PSP2. This isn't an issue of being compatible with old games, but current ones.

    Rakai on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sparrow wrote: »
    Could Sony not just release all previous UMD games via the virtual store for new "PSP GO!" users, and then update the older PSP models to allow them to download the newer games? We already know the current PSPs are capable of running multiple backups from the amount of people who have hacked systems, and even Sony's official firmware allows for 'download and go' from the PSN.

    Then all your left with is crossing your fingers and praying people are ready for digital distributions as their main source of games.

    So if I got a PSP Go! I'd have to rebuy all of my games?

    Also, you're forgetting the kind of storage space requirements we're dealign with. And when I want to play a game, swapping discs is much quicker than walking over to the computer, and having to wait while it writes files externally, or god forbid I'm stuck downloading and installing over WiFi.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Rakai wrote: »
    Why are we even discussing BC? The rumors point to this being a PSP revision, not a PSP2. This isn't an issue of being compatible with old games, but current ones.

    I dunno, but nailbunny got a real bee in his bonnet about it.

    I initially brought it up as an example of how sony tends to remove features without giving the consumer anything to make up for them.

    Evander on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I wouldn't have so much of a problem with this new PSP not having a UMD drive if they didn't call it a PSP.

    If the DSi took out the GBA slot that's fine, because it's not a GBA, it's a DS, it's primary function is to play DS games.

    If the "PSP Go!" was called the "Sony Handheld Gaming System" or "SHGS" for short, well fuck, I'm not expecting it to play PSP games, so if it doesn't, it's not really a big deal then now is it?

    maximumzero on
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