I'm still interested to know the origin of the ANGRY MARINES thing. I mean, I think I've seen 1-2 other people with similar avatars to the original angry marine head.
The Angry Marines are, though some 40k fans don't like to admit it, the qualities that make 40k fun...just exaggerated. 40k is about over the top GRIMDARK ASSKICKING that only barely manages not to fall face first into utterly silly territory. 40k as a whole has always been pretty tongue in cheek I feel.
The Angry Marines are the grimmest and the darkest. And the ass kickingest you walking vaginas.
Psssht, this is Fire Emblem. Don't you know how it works? Evil empire knocks out a nation in the beginning, upstart hero escapes and comes back to soundly hammer their asses.
...Now that I think about it, are there any Fire Emblems at all that don't begin like this?
If memory serves, he was a major proponent of the mafia zone kill. That's all I can think of, though there was probably lots more. I remember laughing at his expense (and yours, Sunkist) concerning some of your ideas for how Cochran was operating.
Well i didn't really believe everything I was throwing out in the thread, I never stopped believing you guys had a universal kill, but just conceded it in the thread. I just wanted people to leave my zone alone so I could Seer in peace! And then you went and killed the person that would have been guarding me the night I died had he not died the night previous.
I'm still interested to know the origin of the ANGRY MARINES thing. I mean, I think I've seen 1-2 other people with similar avatars to the original angry marine head.
Uhhh, it's a 4chan meme.
Oh, it's from /tg/. I've never looked at /tg/ on 4chan, so I figure me asking was okay.
Kay2 on
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
Psssht, this is Fire Emblem. Don't you know how it works? Evil empire knocks out a nation in the beginning, upstart hero escapes and comes back to soundly hammer their asses.
...Now that I think about it, are there any Fire Emblems at all that don't begin like this?
From Memory:
FE7 Part 1 - Upstart young Girl finds she is rightful heir and dethrones evil usurper.
FE7 Part 2 - Upstart young Lad finds his father has disappeared and searches for him.
FE8 - Kingdom is destroyed leaving Upstart Siblings ready to kick the Evil Empire's arse.
FE9 - Upstart mercenaries do a few Blue-Milk assignments before evil empire invades and they have to leave and kick some arses.
FE10 - The Evil Empire has been invaded by a different Evil Empire leaving some new young Upstarts to fight the Old Young Upstarts.
FE7 seems to be the least fitting to the criteria, and FE8 could be seen as pretty much exactly what has just happened.
This Analysis has also made me remember how craaaazy FE10 is in it's premise.
FE10 is still probably my favorite. I loved the three different parts covering three seperate political clusterfucks, finally converging in one giant shitstorm deluxe.
Plus, Micaiah didn't so much "fight" Ike as run like hell whenever he and the Greil Mercenaries entered the field of battle
FE10 is still probably my favorite. I loved the three different parts covering three seperate political clusterfucks, finally converging in one giant shitstorm deluxe.
Plus, Micaiah didn't so much "fight" Ike as run like hell whenever he and the Greil Mercenaries entered the field of battle
One of the best parts of that game in my opinion was the closing cutscene for Part 2 where Lucia is about to be executed when the Greil Mercenaries turn up out of nowhere in a "'Sup guys, we're the main characters now" fashion and fuck everyone's shit up. Because having anyone other than them at the helm just doesn't feel right.
FE10 is still probably my favorite. I loved the three different parts covering three seperate political clusterfucks, finally converging in one giant shitstorm deluxe.
Plus, Micaiah didn't so much "fight" Ike as run like hell whenever he and the Greil Mercenaries entered the field of battle
One of the best parts of that game in my opinion was the closing cutscene for Part 2 where Lucia is about to be executed when the Greil Mercenaries turn up out of nowhere in a "'Sup guys, we're the main characters now" fashion and fuck everyone's shit up. Because having anyone other than them at the helm just doesn't feel right.
It was worth the wait. I felt like in the end, building up to getting to take control of Ike and co made it far more badass in the end.
The unfortunate part was where you realized no matter how much potential the dawn brigade characters had, it was a ton of work to bring them up to the level of Ike and the mercenaries by the time you got to choose the final party.
You had a lot of opportunity to make them good, so using anyone from the dawn brigade was hard to do. I think I used the cavalier with horrible starting stats but good skills and Aran, since they could team up to get a +30 dodge and +2 defense or something, making them a good shield.
What compounded the fact was that generally speaking, it was kind of difficult to manage who was getting exp for the Dawn Brigade on Normal difficulty because Radiant Dawn was in general abnormally difficult. The AI was good, rather vicious, and missions often had time limits to boot. As a result, proper character growth often had to take a back seat to efficiently clearing the mission.
I pretty much just resolved myself that only Zihark, Nolan, and Edward were ever going to be truly on par with Ike and co. Micaiah and Sothe are irredeemably awful and I hate them for forcing me to take them on the final battle. Especially Sothe when Volke is so much better.
What compounded the fact was that generally speaking, it was kind of difficult to manage who was getting exp for the Dawn Brigade on Normal difficulty because Radiant Dawn was in general abnormally difficult. The AI was good, rather vicious, and missions often had time limits to boot. As a result, proper character growth often had to take a back seat to efficiently clearing the mission.
I pretty much just resolved myself that only Zihark, Nolan, and Edward were ever going to be truly on par with Ike and co. Micaiah and Sothe are irredeemably awful and I hate them for forcing me to take them on the final battle. Especially Sothe when Volke is so much better.
I used Heather a lot with the disarm skill you can grab from Brom in Ike's missions. It gave me a lot of money and free weapons. I never had any interest for doing that with Sothe and by the end, I think I only really used him for support with Micaiah.
I never had Nolan or Edward turn out that great for me. Then again, I never used any swordmasters if I didn't have to. I stuck mostly to soldiers, fliers and cavaliers I think at the end.
What compounded the fact was that generally speaking, it was kind of difficult to manage who was getting exp for the Dawn Brigade on Normal difficulty because Radiant Dawn was in general abnormally difficult. The AI was good, rather vicious, and missions often had time limits to boot. As a result, proper character growth often had to take a back seat to efficiently clearing the mission.
I pretty much just resolved myself that only Zihark, Nolan, and Edward were ever going to be truly on par with Ike and co. Micaiah and Sothe are irredeemably awful and I hate them for forcing me to take them on the final battle. Especially Sothe when Volke is so much better.
I used Heather a lot with the disarm skill you can grab from Brom in Ike's missions. It gave me a lot of money and free weapons. I never had any interest for doing that with Sothe and by the end, I think I only really used him for support with Micaiah.
I never had Nolan or Edward turn out that great for me. Then again, I never used any swordmasters if I didn't have to. I stuck mostly to soldiers, fliers and cavaliers I think at the end.
Nolan is actually pretty fantastic as a third tier unit. As for Edward...truth be told my Zihark turned out better than Edward, due to the stat growth bonuses from PoR data.
I gave Zihark Alondite after killing the Black Knight. The results were hilarious.
Edit: And it'll probably at least partially break you. Some of those segments had me frothing with rage and/or panicking at my inevitable doom. The good news? It becomes much easier once you reach Part 3.
If you find characters you enjoy CJ, abuse the in-battle game saving for stat growths. Save before someone's going to level and see how the stats turn out. If it isn't favorable, reload and change the RNG by moving another unit or something and then letting the character gain a level.
The difficulty is mostly for the first chapter and some of the third, that makes the game difficult to play or even enjoy sometimes.
Edit: And it'll probably at least partially break you. Some of those segments had me frothing with rage and/or panicking at my inevitable doom. The good news? It becomes much easier once you reach Part 3.
Absolutely.
I'm still bitter that Ike didn't marry Elincia. Come on, talk about foreordained.
I avoid voicing my suspicions in the main thread because it all too often gets me killed in a main phalla. That said, I got a random PM at like 3am on day 10 or 11 confirming I was good and asking me to guard someone.
Most people aren't up at 3am on a weeknight :X
The best advice I think I've received thus far is that as a vanillager, your life doesn't mean much.
This, pretty much.
I'm never particulary afraid to die as a villager, 'cause my death doesn't count for a whole lot.
I just get angry when I die for a stupid reason.
Definately with you there, Oats. I wish less people would act like selfish dicks when they're stuck in the vanillager role. Vanillagers have a very important fuction: as a smokescreen for the badguys! Distract the mafia! If you get killed by the mafia, then you have done a good job and saved a special!
Put out those strategies, speculate, pose as a special if you think that the mafia may be on to one of the actual specials. Hell, if all else fails, be entertaining! If you're actually playing the game (as opposed to having something else distract you IRL) then PLAY. What are inactive villagers hoping to accomplish? You win when the village wins, not if you survive to the end because you escaped notice.
I understand the underlying arguement here is "you're a villager, don't worry about being suspicious", but the problem is the "because it's not like it matters you're worthless" part that bothers me. By and large, in any Phalla that doesn't have a lot of really cool mechanics in play, most players are going to be villagers. You've got 15-25% Mafia, a few specials, and everyone else is stock normal. And nobody likes being voted out. I sure as hell don't, though I do recognize it as part of the game and I tend not to whine excessively.
I'm a fairly shitty Phalla player. I'm really not any good at this game. Actually I'm terrible at this game. Look back over my record and you'll see that I've got a long, long history of bad judgement calls, trusting the wrong people, taking risks I shouldn't, and getting myself killed for any number of reasons. What you won't see in my record, unless you look closely, is that I'm not good at this game because I don't play it like many Phallateers do.
I want to enjoy my Phalla. Don't get me wrong, some of you have fun treating it like a hardcore numbers game, or as an exercise in psychology... and I swear, some Phalla players only enjoy Phalla because they can act like absolute dicks to everyone and say "hey I'm not this way in my real life fuck you". But me, I enjoy it... well, mostly as the party game it was born from. A fun, social sort of thing, where I can have a sense of humor and just have some fun. Sometimes, when I'm feeling REALLY dangerous, I even get "into character", though I've been openly threatened for doing it more than once in the past (which let me say flat out, is a shitty thing to do, threaten someone for actually having fun). The problem of course is that it tends to get me killed really early on. Take a look at some of the minis where I just didn't care about living or dying and you'll see people killing me for posting song lyrics, for random comments about necromancy, whatever. Hell, look at my signature... For those who remember the one that's from, I was odd enough to get mentioned in narrations, and that's usually my fondest goal; to make the game enough more interesting that my insanity gets worked into the "plot".
You'll notice I do that when I narrate games, too. I take the day's posting and work all that into the narration. I think it adds something to the game, and it encourages people to get involved, to have fun.
Of late, I've been getting less active in Phalla, to the point where I rarely even bother joining anymore, because a lot of Phalla players have been really fucking anal about playing the game more hardcore than I enjoy. I'm not out to get myself killed, I'm out to have fun; if I get killed for that, I've still had fun. Certain players in the last few Phallas I played in treated me like absolute shit, and I've been openly and privately bitched out or threatened in the past over it. I've had any number of snide comments made to me over it, and I've been flat out told that a certain subset of players prefer to actively fuck over those who treat Phalla like I do.
I'd like to be better at this game, but I just don't seem to have the head for it. There are too many random factors and frankly the better you get at the game the more likely it is people kill you early on just in case. Case in point: Eri or TehSpectre, both of whom are really really good at Phalla.
The point of all this is: Most Phallas, I'm going to be in a villager role. That means, in most Phallas, to the hardcore crowd, I'm pretty much meaningless except as a statistic. But if I die, that means it's game over for me. And I've never cared for the suicidal mindset, even in a game. So I don't want to fucking die. The problem of course is that anything I do is pretty much automatically going to risk me getting killed. Sure, maybe my role's worthless to you, but it isn't, to me. It's like any other game; when you lose, you're done, and sitting out waiting for the next round isn't fun.
Don't get me wrong, I think people should be more active. But that's not going to happen as long as the default mindset in Phalla is "you're saying too much random stuff, you're suspicious" and "if you're evil or a special, lay low and people won't notice you". So I just say, have fun and fuck the suspicions. Sure you'll lose games occasionally, but eventually people will start to realize, you just enjoy the game, and maybe, if they're smart, they'll stop offing you at random for it.
I know this was a lot of random rambling, so don't worry about it if I'm meandering. I just had some things to say.
I want to say, by the way, infidel, Blarney, CJ, the only reason I joined this game was because the theme and the mechanics involved were interesting enough to pull me back in after my disaffectation from previous Phallas. In other words, I was sort of starting to hate Phalla and you guys got me to play and enjoy a game of it. I appreciate it, because it reminded me why I play this damn game in the first place: to actually, you know, have fun with a game.
Though admitedly I didn't have nearly as much fun as Fiaryn...
Yes, it's a game you are playing to have fun. But it's still a game. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing, no matter what your role is. And if you are a villager who is just joking around with other players and following bandwagons without any thought, you aren't playing to win.
There is a limit to which the defense of "I'm just going to have fun!" will fly Krata.
I like ripping on movies, the whole MST3K style of thing. It's a combination of ad lib riffing and all that stuff. It's fun. If I go to a new release movie on opening night, to have fun, I am not justified in just going off and cracking jokes through out the whole thing. It's essentially griefing the movie even if that's not my intent. While I'd have fun that is not fun for the rest of the people in the theater.
Now honestly I haven't noticed you doing anything I find objectionable or anything. I'm just arguing over the point your making. At the point where you start not playing the game as your directed by the game in favor of your own goals you're essentially griefing the game.
Mafia only works when people act as they're directed to by the game. I as Mafia can't decide that my new goal is to RP that role to the hilt, calling out my fellow mafia in the thread and plotting evil deeds in public while twirling our mustaches. It'd ruin the game for everyone.
I think villagers are actually far more important than you're letting on. They are not worthless, they're expendable. Pawns in chest serve a vital role but they're nowhere near as valuable as the Queen and you'd be foolish to exchange a Queen for your foes Pawn. By the same token you'd be foolish to not exchange your Pawn for their Queen. So when I say it's a villagers job to get in the way they act as Pawns do in chess. They run interference while keeping an eye out for when they can do something radical like take a Queen or put the King in Check.
Really, I find the experience of being a Pawn-er...villager much more liberating than a special or mafia. I have to try and avoid the bandwagon (which I consider as a loss for myself if I'm a villager) but try and provoke discussion and find the bad guys. If I die, it's better than a special dying and it means the bad guys thought I was doing a good enough job to justify removing.
Yes, it's a game you are playing to have fun. But it's still a game. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing, no matter what your role is. And if you are a villager who is just joking around with other players and following bandwagons without any thought, you aren't playing to win.
I didn't say I don't play to win, I said I sucked at winning.
But there's a difference between intending to win, and how hardcore some people get.
I go into every game with the same three goals, in roughly this order.
1) Enjoy the game.
2) Survive as long as possible while still enjoying myself.
3) Win if possible.
I do not consider being dead to include me in the winners even if my faction wins. If I die, I've "lost", no matter how well my group does after I die, because I'm dead.
Yes, it's a game you are playing to have fun. But it's still a game. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing, no matter what your role is. And if you are a villager who is just joking around with other players and following bandwagons without any thought, you aren't playing to win.
I didn't say I don't play to win, I said I sucked at winning.
But there's a difference between intending to win, and how hardcore some people get.
I go into every game with the same three goals, in roughly this order.
1) Enjoy the game.
2) Survive as long as possible while still enjoying myself.
3) Win if possible.
I do not consider being dead to include me in the winners even if my faction wins. If I die, I've "lost", no matter how well my group does after I die, because I'm dead.
Well then clearly you are playing a different game then everyone else because the villagers win condition is always 'Kill all Mafia' not 'Survive until all Mafia are killed'. Dead villagers win if the village wins, that's the way the game works.
So you are in fact, not playing to win, and instead playing to survive. Which is not your win condition, so...
Now honestly I haven't noticed you doing anything I find objectionable or anything. I'm just arguing over the point your making. At the point where you start not playing the game as your directed by the game in favor of your own goals you're essentially griefing the game.
But see, that's the thing, again, I do play the game, I'm just not good at it is all.
I just want to enjoy the game, and so I get into it as much as I can. Most of the "objectionable" things I've done in the past include: Getting into my character/role and playing it up for all it's worth, and having more fun with my post restrictions than should be legal. You'd be shocked how nasty some people have gotten with me over that, and how many times it's gotten me killed.
My point is mostly that yes, villagers are probably worth less as a whole than specials, but when you are a villager, accepting that you're useless and deliberately allowing yourself to be killed because "Oh it doesn't matter I'm just a villager anyway" is really pretty meta, and even beyond that I'm not sure it's that many steps farther than going inactive when you don't get a special role, which has been known to happen.
Yes, it's a game you are playing to have fun. But it's still a game. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing, no matter what your role is. And if you are a villager who is just joking around with other players and following bandwagons without any thought, you aren't playing to win.
I didn't say I don't play to win, I said I sucked at winning.
But there's a difference between intending to win, and how hardcore some people get.
I go into every game with the same three goals, in roughly this order.
1) Enjoy the game.
2) Survive as long as possible while still enjoying myself.
3) Win if possible.
I do not consider being dead to include me in the winners even if my faction wins. If I die, I've "lost", no matter how well my group does after I die, because I'm dead.
Well then clearly you are playing a different game then everyone else because the villagers win condition is always 'Kill all Mafia' not 'Survive until all Mafia are killed'. Dead villagers win if the village wins, that's the way the game works.
So you are in fact, not playing to win, and instead playing to survive. Which is not your win condition, so...
I wouldn't say that "everyone" else is playing. I'm not the only Phalla player who feels that death is losing, you know. There are also reasons I generally don't play Phalla. This hardcore attitude is part of those reasons, because it makes the game less fun for me when I'm literally expected to consider myself meaningless just because I don't have a kill, guard, or seer power.
Nolan is actually pretty fantastic as a third tier unit. As for Edward...truth be told my Zihark turned out better than Edward, due to the stat growth bonuses from PoR data.
Nolan, Zihark and Leonardo were the 3 I ended up using from the Dawn Brigade. Zihark because I loved using him in PoR, and Nolan/Leonardo because I hate Boyd/Rolf/Shinon, and so needed any alternate Axe or Bow users I could find.
You all have me playing Radiant Dawn for the first time.
Between the difficulty, enjoyable story, and lack of supports, I don't know whether I'll love it, or it's going to break me.
Oh, it will break you. One of the tests to differentiate between Humans and Robots is to check whether they get horribly frustrated with a Fire Emblem game. You'll love it none-the-less though. Especially in late game where all your favourite characters are all unstoppable killing machines.
Yes, it's a game you are playing to have fun. But it's still a game. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing, no matter what your role is. And if you are a villager who is just joking around with other players and following bandwagons without any thought, you aren't playing to win.
I didn't say I don't play to win, I said I sucked at winning.
But there's a difference between intending to win, and how hardcore some people get.
I go into every game with the same three goals, in roughly this order.
1) Enjoy the game.
2) Survive as long as possible while still enjoying myself.
3) Win if possible.
I do not consider being dead to include me in the winners even if my faction wins. If I die, I've "lost", no matter how well my group does after I die, because I'm dead.
Well then clearly you are playing a different game then everyone else because the villagers win condition is always 'Kill all Mafia' not 'Survive until all Mafia are killed'. Dead villagers win if the village wins, that's the way the game works.
So you are in fact, not playing to win, and instead playing to survive. Which is not your win condition, so...
I wouldn't say that "everyone" else is playing. I'm not the only Phalla player who feels that death is losing, you know. There are also reasons I generally don't play Phalla. This hardcore attitude is part of those reasons, because it makes the game less fun for me when I'm literally expected to consider myself meaningless just because I don't have a kill, guard, or seer power.
Every single 'hardcore' player in fact argues that you aren't 'meaningless' when you don't have a power, but instead the most important part of the game. Networks rarely win games by themselves and the village almost always loses games where it waits for a network to swoop in and save the day. Villagers are the ones who win (or lose) the game.
Villagers are in fact the most important role in the game because you can post pretty much whatever you want without worries because if you are considered suspicious and get killed, it doesn't hurt the village in the same way your death as a special would. Thus, your hand is more free with your actions and you can do more to help the village by posting theories and other risky things.
People who play to survive as long as possible as a villager suck and shouldn't play.
Now honestly I haven't noticed you doing anything I find objectionable or anything. I'm just arguing over the point your making. At the point where you start not playing the game as your directed by the game in favor of your own goals you're essentially griefing the game.
But see, that's the thing, again, I do play the game, I'm just not good at it is all.
I just want to enjoy the game, and so I get into it as much as I can. Most of the "objectionable" things I've done in the past include: Getting into my character/role and playing it up for all it's worth, and having more fun with my post restrictions than should be legal. You'd be shocked how nasty some people have gotten with me over that, and how many times it's gotten me killed.
My point is mostly that yes, villagers are probably worth less as a whole than specials, but when you are a villager, accepting that you're useless and deliberately allowing yourself to be killed because "Oh it doesn't matter I'm just a villager anyway" is really pretty meta, and even beyond that I'm not sure it's that many steps farther than going inactive when you don't get a special role, which has been known to happen.
Krata for every person that tries to make you feel bad for roleplaying, there's two people like me, who can't get enough of it. Your performance in Zombie Apocalypse mini was too cool for school, seriously. It was awesome.
Aside from that, I agree with most of the points your making. Even though being a villager might be boring to some, for me it is, as Pretentious, liberating. Like this game, it means I can come up and say whatever I want, whatever I think will throw the village in the right direction, and then if I die, well, I'm dead. Not if I die, well, gg village you're screwed now.
And even though I think this way, I'm usually one of the most vehement defenders against the bandwagon (both for myself and others, whether I trust them or not) that can be found. I hate dying, and I hate other people dying, in general, and so if I don't like the reasoning, I say so.
Rend on
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
Who is saying you can't do shit if you're a villager
Every single 'hardcore' player in fact argues that you aren't 'meaningless' when you don't have a power, but instead the most important part of the game. Networks rarely win games by themselves and the village almost always loses games where it waits for a network to swoop in and save the day. Villagers are the ones who win (or lose) the game.
Villagers are in fact the most important role in the game because you can post pretty much whatever you want without worries because if you are considered suspicious and get killed, it doesn't hurt the village in the same way your death as a special would. Thus, your hand is more free with your actions and you can do more to help the village by posting theories and other risky things.
People who play to survive as long as possible as a villager suck and shouldn't play.
I... sort of hope I'm not understanding you correctly. Or that you're not understanding me.
Because I actually hope and actively try to see the end of the game, I suck and shouldn't play?
Keep in mind that I'm active when I play Phalla, usually moreso if I'm actually able to enjoy myself... I post, I give my thoughts on bandwagons, I give my thoughts on suspicions, when I'm not 100% sure I'm going to be shouted down (and then I usually do so anyway), when I see an opportunity to actually make a difference I do occasionally try to take it (though, like in the Pirate mini, I usually choose poorly on how), I vote for who I believe to be the best choice, even if it's not the bandwagon target, and I try not to die, which means I can still be of help.
And I refuse to consider myself a "safe kill". Yes, better me than, say, our Seer, who is let's face it, probably the single most important role in teh game. But better the mafia than me, and I know that I'm not the mafia, so why shouldn't I try to stay alive?
My point is that I want to keep playing the game, rather than being forced out, whenever possible.
Why is this wrong?
EDIT: Removed a series of quotes for less wall-o-textyness
Posts
The Angry Marines are the grimmest and the darkest. And the ass kickingest you walking vaginas.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
edit: Also HamHamJ your theories are awful.
Neither were you, so I'm sure they feel the same.
...Now that I think about it, are there any Fire Emblems at all that don't begin like this?
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
seriously he is the worst strategist ever.
Screw you guys.
Sorry Chen, I TRIED to heavily hint that you should choose someone else as a guard.
AND SPECTRUM AND I WERE BUSY!
Also, my favorite night was this:
http://www.orokos.com/odam/fe/view.php?k=c30a41613b54d52107c374b5d86c26c8&day=2
:whistle:
Oh, it's from /tg/. I've never looked at /tg/ on 4chan, so I figure me asking was okay.
Operation: Lord of the flies is go
From Memory:
FE7 Part 1 - Upstart young Girl finds she is rightful heir and dethrones evil usurper.
FE7 Part 2 - Upstart young Lad finds his father has disappeared and searches for him.
FE8 - Kingdom is destroyed leaving Upstart Siblings ready to kick the Evil Empire's arse.
FE9 - Upstart mercenaries do a few Blue-Milk assignments before evil empire invades and they have to leave and kick some arses.
FE10 - The Evil Empire has been invaded by a different Evil Empire leaving some new young Upstarts to fight the Old Young Upstarts.
FE7 seems to be the least fitting to the criteria, and FE8 could be seen as pretty much exactly what has just happened.
This Analysis has also made me remember how craaaazy FE10 is in it's premise.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
You had a lot of opportunity to make them good, so using anyone from the dawn brigade was hard to do. I think I used the cavalier with horrible starting stats but good skills and Aran, since they could team up to get a +30 dodge and +2 defense or something, making them a good shield.
I pretty much just resolved myself that only Zihark, Nolan, and Edward were ever going to be truly on par with Ike and co. Micaiah and Sothe are irredeemably awful and I hate them for forcing me to take them on the final battle. Especially Sothe when Volke is so much better.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I used Heather a lot with the disarm skill you can grab from Brom in Ike's missions. It gave me a lot of money and free weapons. I never had any interest for doing that with Sothe and by the end, I think I only really used him for support with Micaiah.
I never had Nolan or Edward turn out that great for me. Then again, I never used any swordmasters if I didn't have to. I stuck mostly to soldiers, fliers and cavaliers I think at the end.
Nolan is actually pretty fantastic as a third tier unit. As for Edward...truth be told my Zihark turned out better than Edward, due to the stat growth bonuses from PoR data.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Between the difficulty, enjoyable story, and lack of supports, I don't know whether I'll love it, or it's going to break me.
Edit: And it'll probably at least partially break you. Some of those segments had me frothing with rage and/or panicking at my inevitable doom. The good news? It becomes much easier once you reach Part 3.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The difficulty is mostly for the first chapter and some of the third, that makes the game difficult to play or even enjoy sometimes.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Absolutely.
I understand the underlying arguement here is "you're a villager, don't worry about being suspicious", but the problem is the "because it's not like it matters you're worthless" part that bothers me. By and large, in any Phalla that doesn't have a lot of really cool mechanics in play, most players are going to be villagers. You've got 15-25% Mafia, a few specials, and everyone else is stock normal. And nobody likes being voted out. I sure as hell don't, though I do recognize it as part of the game and I tend not to whine excessively.
I'm a fairly shitty Phalla player. I'm really not any good at this game. Actually I'm terrible at this game. Look back over my record and you'll see that I've got a long, long history of bad judgement calls, trusting the wrong people, taking risks I shouldn't, and getting myself killed for any number of reasons. What you won't see in my record, unless you look closely, is that I'm not good at this game because I don't play it like many Phallateers do.
I want to enjoy my Phalla. Don't get me wrong, some of you have fun treating it like a hardcore numbers game, or as an exercise in psychology... and I swear, some Phalla players only enjoy Phalla because they can act like absolute dicks to everyone and say "hey I'm not this way in my real life fuck you". But me, I enjoy it... well, mostly as the party game it was born from. A fun, social sort of thing, where I can have a sense of humor and just have some fun. Sometimes, when I'm feeling REALLY dangerous, I even get "into character", though I've been openly threatened for doing it more than once in the past (which let me say flat out, is a shitty thing to do, threaten someone for actually having fun). The problem of course is that it tends to get me killed really early on. Take a look at some of the minis where I just didn't care about living or dying and you'll see people killing me for posting song lyrics, for random comments about necromancy, whatever. Hell, look at my signature... For those who remember the one that's from, I was odd enough to get mentioned in narrations, and that's usually my fondest goal; to make the game enough more interesting that my insanity gets worked into the "plot".
You'll notice I do that when I narrate games, too. I take the day's posting and work all that into the narration. I think it adds something to the game, and it encourages people to get involved, to have fun.
Of late, I've been getting less active in Phalla, to the point where I rarely even bother joining anymore, because a lot of Phalla players have been really fucking anal about playing the game more hardcore than I enjoy. I'm not out to get myself killed, I'm out to have fun; if I get killed for that, I've still had fun. Certain players in the last few Phallas I played in treated me like absolute shit, and I've been openly and privately bitched out or threatened in the past over it. I've had any number of snide comments made to me over it, and I've been flat out told that a certain subset of players prefer to actively fuck over those who treat Phalla like I do.
I'd like to be better at this game, but I just don't seem to have the head for it. There are too many random factors and frankly the better you get at the game the more likely it is people kill you early on just in case. Case in point: Eri or TehSpectre, both of whom are really really good at Phalla.
The point of all this is: Most Phallas, I'm going to be in a villager role. That means, in most Phallas, to the hardcore crowd, I'm pretty much meaningless except as a statistic. But if I die, that means it's game over for me. And I've never cared for the suicidal mindset, even in a game. So I don't want to fucking die. The problem of course is that anything I do is pretty much automatically going to risk me getting killed. Sure, maybe my role's worthless to you, but it isn't, to me. It's like any other game; when you lose, you're done, and sitting out waiting for the next round isn't fun.
Don't get me wrong, I think people should be more active. But that's not going to happen as long as the default mindset in Phalla is "you're saying too much random stuff, you're suspicious" and "if you're evil or a special, lay low and people won't notice you". So I just say, have fun and fuck the suspicions. Sure you'll lose games occasionally, but eventually people will start to realize, you just enjoy the game, and maybe, if they're smart, they'll stop offing you at random for it.
I know this was a lot of random rambling, so don't worry about it if I'm meandering. I just had some things to say.
Though admitedly I didn't have nearly as much fun as Fiaryn...
I like ripping on movies, the whole MST3K style of thing. It's a combination of ad lib riffing and all that stuff. It's fun. If I go to a new release movie on opening night, to have fun, I am not justified in just going off and cracking jokes through out the whole thing. It's essentially griefing the movie even if that's not my intent. While I'd have fun that is not fun for the rest of the people in the theater.
Now honestly I haven't noticed you doing anything I find objectionable or anything. I'm just arguing over the point your making. At the point where you start not playing the game as your directed by the game in favor of your own goals you're essentially griefing the game.
Mafia only works when people act as they're directed to by the game. I as Mafia can't decide that my new goal is to RP that role to the hilt, calling out my fellow mafia in the thread and plotting evil deeds in public while twirling our mustaches. It'd ruin the game for everyone.
I think villagers are actually far more important than you're letting on. They are not worthless, they're expendable. Pawns in chest serve a vital role but they're nowhere near as valuable as the Queen and you'd be foolish to exchange a Queen for your foes Pawn. By the same token you'd be foolish to not exchange your Pawn for their Queen. So when I say it's a villagers job to get in the way they act as Pawns do in chess. They run interference while keeping an eye out for when they can do something radical like take a Queen or put the King in Check.
Really, I find the experience of being a Pawn-er...villager much more liberating than a special or mafia. I have to try and avoid the bandwagon (which I consider as a loss for myself if I'm a villager) but try and provoke discussion and find the bad guys. If I die, it's better than a special dying and it means the bad guys thought I was doing a good enough job to justify removing.
Phalla is (typically) a team sport.
I didn't say I don't play to win, I said I sucked at winning.
But there's a difference between intending to win, and how hardcore some people get.
I go into every game with the same three goals, in roughly this order.
1) Enjoy the game.
2) Survive as long as possible while still enjoying myself.
3) Win if possible.
I do not consider being dead to include me in the winners even if my faction wins. If I die, I've "lost", no matter how well my group does after I die, because I'm dead.
So you are in fact, not playing to win, and instead playing to survive. Which is not your win condition, so...
But see, that's the thing, again, I do play the game, I'm just not good at it is all.
I just want to enjoy the game, and so I get into it as much as I can. Most of the "objectionable" things I've done in the past include: Getting into my character/role and playing it up for all it's worth, and having more fun with my post restrictions than should be legal. You'd be shocked how nasty some people have gotten with me over that, and how many times it's gotten me killed.
My point is mostly that yes, villagers are probably worth less as a whole than specials, but when you are a villager, accepting that you're useless and deliberately allowing yourself to be killed because "Oh it doesn't matter I'm just a villager anyway" is really pretty meta, and even beyond that I'm not sure it's that many steps farther than going inactive when you don't get a special role, which has been known to happen.
I wouldn't say that "everyone" else is playing. I'm not the only Phalla player who feels that death is losing, you know. There are also reasons I generally don't play Phalla. This hardcore attitude is part of those reasons, because it makes the game less fun for me when I'm literally expected to consider myself meaningless just because I don't have a kill, guard, or seer power.
Nolan, Zihark and Leonardo were the 3 I ended up using from the Dawn Brigade. Zihark because I loved using him in PoR, and Nolan/Leonardo because I hate Boyd/Rolf/Shinon, and so needed any alternate Axe or Bow users I could find.
Only Zihark ever ended up being useful though.
Oh, it will break you. One of the tests to differentiate between Humans and Robots is to check whether they get horribly frustrated with a Fire Emblem game. You'll love it none-the-less though. Especially in late game where all your favourite characters are all unstoppable killing machines.
Villagers are in fact the most important role in the game because you can post pretty much whatever you want without worries because if you are considered suspicious and get killed, it doesn't hurt the village in the same way your death as a special would. Thus, your hand is more free with your actions and you can do more to help the village by posting theories and other risky things.
People who play to survive as long as possible as a villager suck and shouldn't play.
Krata for every person that tries to make you feel bad for roleplaying, there's two people like me, who can't get enough of it. Your performance in Zombie Apocalypse mini was too cool for school, seriously. It was awesome.
Aside from that, I agree with most of the points your making. Even though being a villager might be boring to some, for me it is, as Pretentious, liberating. Like this game, it means I can come up and say whatever I want, whatever I think will throw the village in the right direction, and then if I die, well, I'm dead. Not if I die, well, gg village you're screwed now.
And even though I think this way, I'm usually one of the most vehement defenders against the bandwagon (both for myself and others, whether I trust them or not) that can be found. I hate dying, and I hate other people dying, in general, and so if I don't like the reasoning, I say so.
Let me break them
I... sort of hope I'm not understanding you correctly. Or that you're not understanding me.
Because I actually hope and actively try to see the end of the game, I suck and shouldn't play?
Keep in mind that I'm active when I play Phalla, usually moreso if I'm actually able to enjoy myself... I post, I give my thoughts on bandwagons, I give my thoughts on suspicions, when I'm not 100% sure I'm going to be shouted down (and then I usually do so anyway), when I see an opportunity to actually make a difference I do occasionally try to take it (though, like in the Pirate mini, I usually choose poorly on how), I vote for who I believe to be the best choice, even if it's not the bandwagon target, and I try not to die, which means I can still be of help.
And I refuse to consider myself a "safe kill". Yes, better me than, say, our Seer, who is let's face it, probably the single most important role in teh game. But better the mafia than me, and I know that I'm not the mafia, so why shouldn't I try to stay alive?
My point is that I want to keep playing the game, rather than being forced out, whenever possible.
Why is this wrong?
EDIT: Removed a series of quotes for less wall-o-textyness