The death for the elderly thing originally comes from paying for consultations on living wills, which I believe was inserted by Johnny Isaakson (R-GA).
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I'm not registered so I haven't read the whole thing but after reading the summary the article seems ripe for cherry-picking and out-of-contex quotations.
Sarksus on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Is this wave of Palin/Limbaugh/Town hall zaniness/Teabagger essentially cresting right now? Because you're already seeing GOP folks at the margins start to call for the debate to be dialed down.
That's my impression, at least. For all the complaints that Obama hasn't been proactive enough in presenting his case, it seems like his being a punching bag is having exactly the effect the administration would have hoped it would -- it smoked out the fringe element and put them front and center.
My bet is that we'll see a high profile Republican make noises about the need for bipartisanship within the week. We're moving from the negotiation phase to the face-saving phase.
Based on the news that health care events are edging into violence, an anti-health care reform protester in New Mexico named Scott Oskay is calling on his hundreds of online followers to bring firearms to town halls, and to 'badly hurt' SEIU and ACORN counter protesters.
Is this wave of Palin/Limbaugh/Town hall zaniness/Teabagger essentially cresting right now? Because you're already seeing GOP folks at the margins start to call for the debate to be dialed down.
That's my impression, at least. For all the complaints that Obama hasn't been proactive enough in presenting his case, it seems like his being a punching bag is having exactly the effect the administration would have hoped it would -- it smoked out the fringe element and put them front and center.
My bet is that we'll see a high profile Republican make noises about the need for bipartisanship within the week. We're moving from the negotiation phase to the face-saving phase.
Based on the news that health care events are edging into violence, an anti-health care reform protester in New Mexico named Scott Oskay is calling on his hundreds of online followers to bring firearms to town halls, and to 'badly hurt' SEIU and ACORN counter protesters.
Then I'm scard for the future.
We've gone over the peak and are falling into the sky. Is there a high-profile conservative left with enough authority to rein this in? McCain could only really do it during the campaign as he was the candidate, not from intrinsic influence.
The Fourth Estate on
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
We've gone over the peak and are falling into the sky. Is there a high-profile conservative left with enough authority to rein this in? McCain could only really do it during the campaign as he was the candidate, not from intrinsic influence.
Romney probably could, if he had any authority (though that doesn't seem to be stopping Palin). The problem with that is, as much as he's been civil and thoughtful with his proposals, going against the grain right now would kill his 2012 chances, as the Dittoheads would rake him over the coals. He's already got his work cut out for him being Mormon as far as party endearment goes, so I don't see him taking this one by the horns.
Not the first mentally challenged thing to pass across her lips, but still. She won't stop until she gets someone to kills someone else.
This was the republican VP offering.
This is why America cannot have nice things. You have representatives/former governors/former Vice Presidential candidates who not only have no sure foot in cognitive reality but they utterly misrepresent the oppositions in order to appeal to the hearts, not the minds, of the populace.
Not the first mentally challenged thing to pass across her lips, but still. She won't stop until she gets someone to kills someone else.
This was the republican VP offering.
This is why America cannot have nice things. You have representatives/former governors/former Vice Presidential candidates who not only have no sure foot in cognitive reality but they utterly misrepresent the oppositions in order to appeal to the hearts, not the minds, of the populace.
Fuck that shit, seriously.
You say this as if it was unique to American politics.
BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
So apparently with this town hall deal some random libertarian posted instructions on how to completely disrupt the entire presentation system... just heard that on npr. Anyone hear of this bs factory? im googling it and i get a bunch of these are happening. How did this happen?
*where did these people come from.... like 3 years ago the green party was the 3rd party and no one was a libertarian
Not the first mentally challenged thing to pass across her lips, but still. She won't stop until she gets someone to kills someone else.
This was the republican VP offering.
This is why America cannot have nice things. You have representatives/former governors/former Vice Presidential candidates who not only have no sure foot in cognitive reality but they utterly misrepresent the oppositions in order to appeal to the hearts, not the minds, of the populace.
Fuck that shit, seriously.
You say this as if it was unique to American politics.
No but the Americans have made it an art form so to speak.
This really sounds like an ambiguous development. If PhRMA backs off, won't the administration be able to say "Look, these douchebags wanted to stifle the American spirit and we made them turn up their noses and walk away in a huff"?
"If ACORN/SEIU attends these meetings for disruptive purposes, and you have a license to carry...carry."
"If ACORN/SEIU attends these townhalls for disruption, stop being peaceful and hurt them. Badly #iamthemob"
This is why we can't have nice things.
It's also why you can't have people like Palin running around telling every sore loser in the GOP that they're precious snowflakes who need to stand up for the real America. Bark in defense of the tribe against the effete and dissenting members, as it were.
Kastanj on
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
So this is going to happen and hopefully people will go to jail for a long time and haha their vote no longer matters.
that said, this seems to be less and less about health care and more and more about being bitter and afraid over the fact that they lost last year
This is going to happen and haha someone is going to get seriously hurt.
Oh, wait, that's somewhat less funny.
ElJeffe on
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The Senate Finance Committee comes up with an even stupider idea.
I wish I could just make it a rule that when it comes to health care reform, congress is not allowed to mention or even consider something that has not already been tested in a first world nation.
Anybody who breaks this rule will be flogged.
And hanged by their figgin.
Seconded.
So much concentrated stupid in the latest excrement to escape the finance committee. And to think these fucks got elected.
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
The Senate Finance Committee comes up with an even stupider idea.
I wish I could just make it a rule that when it comes to health care reform, congress is not allowed to mention or even consider something that has not already been tested in a first world nation.
Anybody who breaks this rule will be flogged.
And hanged by their figgin.
Seconded.
So much concentrated stupid in the latest excrement to escape the finance committee. And to think these fucks got elected.
Sure, in Montana and Nebraska, if you can count those.
I've seen some pretty strained excuses for this crap, but this one takes the cake. At least they're showing up indeed.
edit: And since I'm link farming, have we talked about that recent Gang of Six (also, can we stop calling ever power play a Gang of X?) meeting with Obama? The White House is making noises about co-ops being acceptable (boo) and Baucus is talking about having to do a Dem only bill (which we've heard before and is usually followed by some especially egregious bullshit).
The Senate Finance Committee comes up with an even stupider idea.
I wish I could just make it a rule that when it comes to health care reform, congress is not allowed to mention or even consider something that has not already been tested in a first world nation.
Anybody who breaks this rule will be flogged.
And hanged by their figgin.
Seconded.
So much concentrated stupid in the latest excrement to escape the finance committee. And to think these fucks got elected.
Sure, in Montana and Nebraska, if you can count those.
I hate the committee and seniority system so much.
If this is true, then all I can say is goddammit wtf Obama.
You take away one of the better ways to save money in exchange for a nebulous promise from big pharma? Yeah I'm sure that will work out real well for us. :x
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
As a Canadian watching these events on TV it’s been utterly fascinating to watch, US politics usually is, more so in the last year with the election and all. But this? Wow. It’s blatantly obvious that while quite a few are worried about their health care and losing it a lot of what is going on is being produced by the Republican party to try and dent Obama and the Democrats in whatever fashion they can. The scary thing is how effective they are and so far Obama and the Democrats really have been nothing but a punching bag against them.
On TV I watch a lot of American programming and shows like CNN and many of the commercials are now about saying No to Health Care Reform, I’ve only seen a single repeated commercial for Health Care Reform and it is shown far less than the others which seem to happen every other commercial. Seriously if the Dem’s want Health Care Reform to pass they’re going to need to pull up their pants and start fighting back, the crazy McCain/Palin supporters and Republicans that are bitter about losing the election are hitting en masse and they’re doing a damn good job of pretty much running this for all it’s worth for their benefit.
The fact they and their supporters are comparing Obama to Hitler now, comparing these health care reforms to Nazism and death for senors plus disabled children is simply astonishing. They don’t want open and honest discussion, the town hall meetings are signs of this, they simply want to shout down and stop any opposition because they don’t like it, is that free speech? I thought free speech meant being able to talk and debate with one another even if you disagreed, that’s definitely not what’s going on.
You see what's going on and it's no wonder why three US presidents including Bill Clinton failed to get any changes to happen and why Bush when he took a look at it decided it was not worth getting into.
Cade on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
On Thursday, Tom Petri, my Congressman, is going to be holding a town hall in Watertown.
I know from multiple sources that it is to be targeted.
Not on my turf.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, Mark, let's pick up on Betty Ann Bowser's report. What do you make of these protestors showing up at town meetings in congressional districts all over the country?
MARK SHIELDS: Well, first of all, there are legitimate and authentic concerns about the plan and questions about the plan, and we see that in public opinion polls.
But there is, I think, a danger here that civility becomes a sign of weakness and that the public debate is debased when I shout you down. It doesn't become a question of, "My opponent is ill-informed or just mistaken or has the facts wrong." It becomes one that, "He's illegitimate. He's part of a vast conspiracy."
And I really think that's a danger. It has -- obviously, I think the speaker, it's her fondest hope that there would be a communication, but I think that this has changed the debate from the merits of the bill and the proposals to a coverage now about the protests and the shout-downs and so forth.
JUDY WOODRUFF: David, how do you size this up?
DAVID BROOKS, columnist, New York Times: Well, first of all, I've been sitting at this table long enough to hate that kind of shouting. I hate it when they shout down Lloyd Doggett or whoever. I hate it when the Code Pink ladies would stand up at every hearing during the Iraq war and start shouting people down and have to be arrested and carried away.
But I do agree that the concern is real. If you look at the polls, it's much broader than any astro-turf operation.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The concern...
DAVID BROOKS: The concern about health care reform. The polls right now, a slight majority are very suspicious of the basic approach. And if you compare where the polls are now to where they were when Clinton-care died in the 1990s, it's exactly the same. We are at the low point of Clinton-care already.
And my suspicion is that will only increase, because the basic problem the proponents have is there's no good bill sitting out there. So the president is going to spend the month going around, but he has nothing actually to sell. And so that leaves him sort of empty-handed, which is one of the reasons I think they're sort of shifting attention to the protests rather than the bill.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But is it a legitimate worry on their part that what's being proposed could lead to government takeover, which is what so many of these...
DAVID BROOKS: Right. There's a lot of misinformation out there...
MARK SHIELDS: There is.
DAVID BROOKS: ... that they're going to cut off Granny and all that stuff, which is mystifying to me. I mean, there's a real -- I mean, my concern is, which is backed up by the CBO and everything else, that we need health care reform. This does nothing to reduce costs.
That is not the argument they're making, maybe because it's not an emotional hot-button argument, "They're going to kill your granny." So there's a ton of misinformation going out there.
But that doesn't mean there's real serious concern with real evidence sort of underlying it, which I assume is motivating most of the people.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Mark, the debates don't seem to be over what's really in the legislation.
MARK SHIELDS: No.
JUDY WOODRUFF: It seems to be over what people are throwing around, isn't substantiating it.
MARK SHIELDS: Throwing around, absolutely. And it's deliberate misinformation. This isn't just accidental misinformation. There are television spots now being funded where, "Why can I get -- I cannot get a hip replacement surgery," says the older person, character actor, "but it's going to pay for abortions, which I oppose?" I mean, it's wrong on both grounds. There's no basis for that.
David's right about the scare tactics about euthanasia. I mean, it just changes the whole terms of the debate. I don't disagree with David that there are legitimate concerns, there have been growing concerns. But this is generating a lot more heat than it is light. And what it's doing is suggesting that you're not -- that your motives are impure if you're an advocate of health care.
DAVID BROOKS: Let's not pretend this just started. I mean, every time we have a major issue, this happens. I mean, just go back to the Iraq war. There were people claiming there was the Project for the New American Century and Richard Perle was part of a big neocon conspiracy. There's ugliness that goes on. There's ugliness that went on in those rallies. And...
JUDY WOODRUFF: You're saying it's the same kind of thing?
DAVID BROOKS: I'm saying -- I think every time, if you look through American history, every time there's a major issue -- and this a major issue -- you get people who are totally over the line and spreading misinformation. And that doesn't justify it -- believe me -- but we shouldn't pretend it just started from one group.
MARK SHIELDS: No, but this is -- I think this is organized in a way that the others weren't. I mean, when any of us gives a speech, we are asked almost semi-regularly about, "What about 9/11? And wasn't that, in fact, organized? And the planes could not have knocked down the Twin Towers."
I mean, that is a regular -- and it's usually somebody -- but this is not something where somebody is shouting you down and denying you. The Code Pink ladies David mentioned would speak -- would shout at the congressional hearings, but then they'd be quickly removed.
This stops the debate. That's what's going on right now. That's the difference.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So when the fellow Betty Ann interviewed, one of the gentlemen at one of the rallies, said, "This is not good for the democratic process."
MARK SHIELDS: It isn't.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that right? I mean, what do you think?
MARK SHIELDS: No.
DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I think we can both agree on that. We're not shouting at each other all these years, so yes.
MARK SHIELDS: Yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So what's the effect on health care reform? Is there any effect? Does it just stop the debate or...
MARK SHIELDS: Well, it changes the whole debate. I mean, the coverage. I mean, Betty Ann, who's done great coverage about the case, pro and con, for the proposals, you know, she's reduced to being a fight reporter, you know, and interviewing the people on either side, I mean, not reduced to that, but, I mean, that's the story. And so the story is now about the protests instead of about the proposals.
David Brooks. If I were to describe how I wish the Republican party was right now, he'd be up there. While I don't agree with all, or even many, of his opinions, he states them in an intelligent and articulate manner without endlessly referring to cliches and soundbytes, and is willing to call on stupid shit his own side pulls.
Thought you guys might like to read this, it's something I posted in a similar thread in SE;
Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls
by Francis Schaeffer
The Republican Old Guard are in the fix an atheist would be in if Jesus showed up and raised his mother from the dead: Their world view has just been shattered. Obama's election has driven them over the edge. Consider Former Congressman Dick Armey. Several far right foundations and the multitrillion dollar health-insurance industry have teamed up with him to organize the far right foot soldiers of the Republican Party to intimidate people speaking on behalf of health-care reform. They are using my old shock troops -- given many of these folks were first energized by the Evangelical pro-life movement that my late father and I started in the 1970s. What we did to clinics they are now doing to congressmen and others speaking out for health care reform.
Having failed at the ballot box, having watched their Fox News-organized "tea parties" fizzle the intimidation tactics which the Republicans have embraced are being used in a well-financed, top-down orchestrated fake grass roots campaign by corporate interests to try and protect the profits of the insurance business. Armey's FreedomWorks is organizing against health care reform. Armey's lobbying firm represents pharmaceutical companies including Bristol-Myers Squibb. Armey's lobbying firm also represents the trade group for the life insurance industry. FreedomWorks is supporting the status quo at all costs. (They are also fans of fossil fuels. Armey's lobbying firm represents Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the UAE, on energy related issues.)
A little bit about this guy, his name is Frank Schaeffer, he wrote this book. His father is Francis Schaeffer, a man who is most notably known for helping to bring fundamentalists into politics and start the pro-life movement. (The people who bomb abortion clinics? Yeah, those are people who took his views to an extreme, but were people influenced by his views none the less)
Frank spent a lot of time working closely with powerful republican's and he knows what he's talking about. Although, he may have a bone to grind with Dick Armey.
One more especially interesting passage from that article, for people who might not read it;
Here is a leaked excerpt from the folks organizing the intimidation campaign:
- Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: "Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington."
- Be Disruptive Early And Often: "You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early."
- Try To "Rattle Him," Not Have An Intelligent Debate: "The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions."
The best part is, if anything horrible happens, the plan is to blame Obama and Pelosi for "inciting the mob." This meme is everywhere in the right wing today, but Noonan is maybe the most high profile.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Not the first mentally challenged thing to pass across her lips, but still. She won't stop until she gets someone to kills someone else.
This was the republican VP offering.
I'm curious, do a lot of Americans (a former vice-Presidential nominee no less) think that's what socialised health care is? Do Americans think Europe is going about executing people who have downs syndrome or something?
GrimReaper on
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Not the first mentally challenged thing to pass across her lips, but still. She won't stop until she gets someone to kills someone else.
This was the republican VP offering.
I'm curious, do a lot of Americans (a former vice-Presidential nominee no less) think that's what socialised health care is? Do Americans think Europe is going about executing people who have downs syndrome or something?
The people we're currently discussing probably think Europe is just one big country.
So apparently a black conservative says he was punched by someone pretty much out of the blue, maybe by some SEIU member. The usual suspects are ejaculating righteousness all over the place, but let's not forget "B for Barack" and the fact that physical scuffles caught on a cellphone are usually very complicated affairs when it comes to who did what.
Kastanj on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
The best part is, if anything horrible happens, the plan is to blame Obama and Pelosi for "inciting the mob." This meme is everywhere in the right wing today, but Noonan is maybe the most high profile.
"You cannot allow your allies to call people protesting a health-care plan “extremists†and “right wing,†or bought, or Nazi-like, either. They’re citizens. They’re concerned. They deserve respect."
Oh Peggy, that's right - don't let them call you Right Wing Extremists, your feelings might get hurt!
I blame this town hall anger squarely on the President. His lack of leadership allowed Nancy Pelosi, probably the most unpopular politician in the USA, to be the face of health care reform. President Obama has also failed in properly explaining his health care reform goals. Instead of bringing both parties together he has been aggressively divisive in the last few days. The Democrats have a super-majority however they cannot take responsibility and feel compelled to blame others for their failure. Again, this is because of poor leadership from the top down.
Also it's completely untrue that he never outlined his goals and what was in it for Americans. He's outlined it many times. He continues to outline it. The problem is that the message is being purposefully distorted, and there's some outright lying.
I'm not going to blame the president for angry mobs that stifle debate with juvenile behaviour and name-calling. I'm going to blame the angry mobs for stifling debate with juvenile behaviour and name-calling.
People on both 'sides' of the debate are at the townhalls and trying to engage in debate over what the plan entails, and giving their opinions on it. These dickheads feel their opinions are worth more than anybody else's and try to drown out everyone else by being the most vocal. That is not "letting your views be heard", but "stopping other's views from being heard".
I find your blatant scapegoating and blame-shifting to be more offensive to those that oppose Obama's plan than those that support it, as you're lumping them all into the dick-waving nazi-conflating category of mouthbreathers. The idiocy on display here is being shown right around the world, with our collective heads shaking in disbelief that some of you over there call this mess appropriate discourse.
I blame this town hall anger squarely on the President. His lack of leadership allowed Nancy Pelosi, probably the most unpopular politician in the USA, to be the face of health care reform.
Am I going to get infracted if I point out that Nancy Pelosi has favorables that Mitch McConnell and John Boehner can only drool over? And that she's not even the most unpopular Democrat (hey Harry!)?
Though shouldn't Kathleen Sebelius be a lot more visible over this? I don't get your American television, so all I go on are blogs and this place, but I've barely heard her mentioned. In fact, I had to look up who was HHS sec., which seems odd in the middle of such vast healthcare discussions.
So apparently a black conservative says he was punched by someone pretty much out of the blue, maybe by some SEIU member. The usual suspects are ejaculating righteousness all over the place, but let's not forget "B for Barack" and the fact that physical scuffles caught on a cellphone are usually very complicated affairs when it comes to who did what.
Honestly, if he was punched in the face totally at random while he was trying to walk an elderly kitten across the street by an outstated Obama supporter, does it really matter?
That's what annoys me the most about all this "omigod your side is full of meanies" bullshit. Who fucking cares? Wow, a democrat somewhere was mean to a republican! Clearly, that makes the current health care reform proposal a terrible idea!
Goddammit, people. Here:
Maybe this will help with your obvious perspective problems.
ElJeffe on
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No I know who she was quoting, I meant where did he write or say that.
Maybe here: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2809%2960137-9/abstract
I'm not registered so I haven't read the whole thing but after reading the summary the article seems ripe for cherry-picking and out-of-contex quotations.
Intellectual Dishonesty is a hell of a drug.
Well, if we haven't peaked with this:http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php?ref=fpblg
Then I'm scard for the future.
We've gone over the peak and are falling into the sky. Is there a high-profile conservative left with enough authority to rein this in? McCain could only really do it during the campaign as he was the candidate, not from intrinsic influence.
Romney probably could, if he had any authority (though that doesn't seem to be stopping Palin). The problem with that is, as much as he's been civil and thoughtful with his proposals, going against the grain right now would kill his 2012 chances, as the Dittoheads would rake him over the coals. He's already got his work cut out for him being Mormon as far as party endearment goes, so I don't see him taking this one by the horns.
This is why America cannot have nice things. You have representatives/former governors/former Vice Presidential candidates who not only have no sure foot in cognitive reality but they utterly misrepresent the oppositions in order to appeal to the hearts, not the minds, of the populace.
Fuck that shit, seriously.
You say this as if it was unique to American politics.
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*where did these people come from.... like 3 years ago the green party was the 3rd party and no one was a libertarian
also, great generic sign "angry mob" http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/0470FEB3219207458625760B001142AC?OpenDocument
No but the Americans have made it an art form so to speak.
As Tauzin tells it, the White House assured him that the pharmaceutical industry would only be on the hook for $80 billion worth of the $1 trillion cost of health care reform--effectively tying Congress' hands if legislators want drug manufacturers to pitch in for more.
But now, White House officials are telling members of Congress that there is no deal. Does this mean PhRMA will drop out of an industry coalition in support of health care reform? Stay tuned.
This really sounds like an ambiguous development. If PhRMA backs off, won't the administration be able to say "Look, these douchebags wanted to stifle the American spirit and we made them turn up their noses and walk away in a huff"?
Edit: lol Ron Paul's son is named Rand lol
Twitter poster recommends bringing guns to town hall meetings.
"If ACORN/SEIU attends these meetings for disruptive purposes, and you have a license to carry...carry."
"If ACORN/SEIU attends these townhalls for disruption, stop being peaceful and hurt them. Badly #iamthemob"
This is why we can't have nice things.
It's also why you can't have people like Palin running around telling every sore loser in the GOP that they're precious snowflakes who need to stand up for the real America. Bark in defense of the tribe against the effete and dissenting members, as it were.
So this is going to happen and hopefully people will go to jail for a long time and haha their vote no longer matters.
that said, this seems to be less and less about health care and more and more about being bitter and afraid over the fact that they lost last year
This is going to happen and haha someone is going to get seriously hurt.
Oh, wait, that's somewhat less funny.
Don't forgot this asshat getting arrested for inciting violence and the nutters start screaming about Obama imprisoning his political opponents.
Oh wait, that's just depressing.
Seconded.
So much concentrated stupid in the latest excrement to escape the finance committee. And to think these fucks got elected.
Sure, in Montana and Nebraska, if you can count those.
I've seen some pretty strained excuses for this crap, but this one takes the cake. At least they're showing up indeed.
edit: And since I'm link farming, have we talked about that recent Gang of Six (also, can we stop calling ever power play a Gang of X?) meeting with Obama? The White House is making noises about co-ops being acceptable (boo) and Baucus is talking about having to do a Dem only bill (which we've heard before and is usually followed by some especially egregious bullshit).
I hate the committee and seniority system so much.
You take away one of the better ways to save money in exchange for a nebulous promise from big pharma? Yeah I'm sure that will work out real well for us. :x
On TV I watch a lot of American programming and shows like CNN and many of the commercials are now about saying No to Health Care Reform, I’ve only seen a single repeated commercial for Health Care Reform and it is shown far less than the others which seem to happen every other commercial. Seriously if the Dem’s want Health Care Reform to pass they’re going to need to pull up their pants and start fighting back, the crazy McCain/Palin supporters and Republicans that are bitter about losing the election are hitting en masse and they’re doing a damn good job of pretty much running this for all it’s worth for their benefit.
The fact they and their supporters are comparing Obama to Hitler now, comparing these health care reforms to Nazism and death for senors plus disabled children is simply astonishing. They don’t want open and honest discussion, the town hall meetings are signs of this, they simply want to shout down and stop any opposition because they don’t like it, is that free speech? I thought free speech meant being able to talk and debate with one another even if you disagreed, that’s definitely not what’s going on.
You see what's going on and it's no wonder why three US presidents including Bill Clinton failed to get any changes to happen and why Bush when he took a look at it decided it was not worth getting into.
I know from multiple sources that it is to be targeted.
Not on my turf.
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Here's the rest
A little bit about this guy, his name is Frank Schaeffer, he wrote this book. His father is Francis Schaeffer, a man who is most notably known for helping to bring fundamentalists into politics and start the pro-life movement. (The people who bomb abortion clinics? Yeah, those are people who took his views to an extreme, but were people influenced by his views none the less)
Frank spent a lot of time working closely with powerful republican's and he knows what he's talking about. Although, he may have a bone to grind with Dick Armey.
One more especially interesting passage from that article, for people who might not read it;
I'm curious, do a lot of Americans (a former vice-Presidential nominee no less) think that's what socialised health care is? Do Americans think Europe is going about executing people who have downs syndrome or something?
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I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
The people we're currently discussing probably think Europe is just one big country.
So apparently a black conservative says he was punched by someone pretty much out of the blue, maybe by some SEIU member. The usual suspects are ejaculating righteousness all over the place, but let's not forget "B for Barack" and the fact that physical scuffles caught on a cellphone are usually very complicated affairs when it comes to who did what.
"You cannot allow your allies to call people protesting a health-care plan “extremists†and “right wing,†or bought, or Nazi-like, either. They’re citizens. They’re concerned. They deserve respect."
Oh Peggy, that's right - don't let them call you Right Wing Extremists, your feelings might get hurt!
yeah, that stuff is totally the president's fault.
People on both 'sides' of the debate are at the townhalls and trying to engage in debate over what the plan entails, and giving their opinions on it. These dickheads feel their opinions are worth more than anybody else's and try to drown out everyone else by being the most vocal. That is not "letting your views be heard", but "stopping other's views from being heard".
I find your blatant scapegoating and blame-shifting to be more offensive to those that oppose Obama's plan than those that support it, as you're lumping them all into the dick-waving nazi-conflating category of mouthbreathers. The idiocy on display here is being shown right around the world, with our collective heads shaking in disbelief that some of you over there call this mess appropriate discourse.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Am I going to get infracted if I point out that Nancy Pelosi has favorables that Mitch McConnell and John Boehner can only drool over? And that she's not even the most unpopular Democrat (hey Harry!)?
Though shouldn't Kathleen Sebelius be a lot more visible over this? I don't get your American television, so all I go on are blogs and this place, but I've barely heard her mentioned. In fact, I had to look up who was HHS sec., which seems odd in the middle of such vast healthcare discussions.
Honestly, if he was punched in the face totally at random while he was trying to walk an elderly kitten across the street by an outstated Obama supporter, does it really matter?
That's what annoys me the most about all this "omigod your side is full of meanies" bullshit. Who fucking cares? Wow, a democrat somewhere was mean to a republican! Clearly, that makes the current health care reform proposal a terrible idea!
Goddammit, people. Here:
Maybe this will help with your obvious perspective problems.