There, can we just stick with qualifiers like that? Just as good as 'she really isn't a she' without getting into controversial statements and underlying meanings.
What if he does, surgically?
What if she does, surgically?
Do we have to get into uterine/vas deferens possession, then?
Then they are a woman who REALLY IS A WOMAN now, and anyone who says they aren't are just being jerkfaces IMO.
There, can we just stick with qualifiers like that? Just as good as 'she really isn't a she' without getting into controversial statements and underlying meanings.
Well, that could include nullos as well, and I think this thread isn't really about them. That's a whole different pot of (franks and beans/roast beef/neither)
Perhaps instead:
"That man has a vagina."
"That woman has a penis."
Because then it's not really a determination of which was the "pre-op" or "post-op" biological gender. Plus, I get to say "Buck Angel" and give a few people mental BSODs when they Google it. (Hint - Extremely NSFW. There's a reason there's no link there.)
Re the thread title: if the extent of the relationship is rubbing your respective bits, whatever they be, together, then no, it doesn't need to be determined if they're OEM or aftermarket. If you're going down the Till Death Do We Part road, yeah, you might want to air that out once things take a turn for serious - if for no reason other than a very simple reason many "conventional" couples don't make it.
Partner A: I want children.
Partner B: I don't want and/or am physically incapable of having children.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited October 2009
The point at which you need to tell the person is the point at which you're progressing to Serious Relationship territory. That's not necessarily the first date, or the second, or the fifth - it's going to very from person to person.
I'm willing to give the trans-person some leeway here, because it's a pretty major thing to reveal. And it's something that could have some pretty terrible side effects if the prospective SO is not an open-minded sort. What if the person takes it so badly that they decide to reveal it to everyone out of spite?
The SO-in-waiting has a right to know, but I think the trans-person has a right to determine for themselves how they think such a revelation would go over. And that might take a few dates. It's sort of absurd to expect that the person has to out themselves every time they think they may want to date someone - you're effectively saying they have no right to conceal their nature from anyone, because that's effectively what's going to happen.
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A relationship without honesty or communication is not going anywhere. Like any other severe impairment or alteration on a traditional relationship (one party is still married and getting divorced, one party has a serious STD or is HIV positive, one party is on parole, whatever), you need to tell your partner. You might refrain from telling them for a date or two, but eventually the truth will come out and if you've hidden it, particularly for any long period of time, your partner will have a perfectly justified reason for leaving you on the spot.
The rights of the transgendered to remain anonymous are quickly rendered moot in any potentially sexual relationship. Your partner will find out, they have a right to know.
Imagine hiding any other serious complication from your significant other. "Oh, hey, honey, sorry I forgot to mention I'm married and have three children." Would that be acceptable? Can we say the married have a right to out themselves when and where they choose?
There's really no way to base a healthy relationship off of deceit and dishonesty. Any "rights to privacy" or "right to out yourself how you choose" don't change that simple rule.
but that is not really an equal comparison. you choose to get married and make vows binding yourself to another person, and promiscuity is an action you have decided you can do without.
being transgendered is not usually a choice if they want to live a happy comfortable life (as far as they can achieve). gender dysphoria is not something you have a choice about, and some of you in this thread would serve yourselves well by doing a bit of research before making yourselves look embarrassingly ignorant.
gender does not equal sex, a person is not male or female just because he has the visual cues that we accept.
all that being said, i do think that if you are entering into a committed sexual relationship you should make your partner aware of your history. as others have said, honesty is vitally important in relationships, and not being willing to tell your partner of such things is not a good idea in the long run.
Would you be fine with finding out your partner had a five year currently running drug addiction and was hiding it from you?
That they're seeing someone on the side and are a sex addict?
That they've been hiding terminal cancer from you?
This isn't a "research exact issue and determine if it should be entirely up to them" it IS entirely up to them (heck, even the married dude cheating on his wife, totally up to him if he cops to it with his mistress), but it's a dick move to try and run a long term serious relationship while hiding major aspects of your life. And gender dysphoria is a major thing in someone's life, and shouldn't be an acceptable secret in a long term committed relationship any more than a mistress or drug addiction should be. This is about honesty with your partner, nothing more, nothing less. Subject of honesty isn't really that big a deal, major life factors don't fall into "white lie" territory.
Now, did you hide it for a month while figuring out how to say it because it's hard for you to talk about? Okay! That happens, and shit can be HARD to open up about. Planning on never mentioning it and continuing to hide it and/or lie about it? Yeah, fuck that. That's not how committed relationships roll.
did you read the last bit of my post that you quoted? also, a drug addict is taking part in self destructive behavior, it is not equal to trangenderism in any way. infidelity is the same, and cancer is just a damn touchy subject. if you are dying, and your partner will have to deal with you dying relatively soon, of course they should know.
but you are a woman now, in body and mind? nothing so destructive. it does not hurt anyone unless the person has prejudices against it, which is why i said it is important to talk about it before getting serious. transgendered people are not "pretending" to be a gender, it is not a game, they are not going around hoping no one finds out they are a man, they are a woman as much as i am.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
It's also reasonable in that it gives people a chance to get past their instinct to flee in that situation if they've already had a chance to get to know the person instead of just the stereotype.
Generally polite to refrain from makeouts until after the revelation, though.
Generally polite to refrain from makeouts until after the revelation, though.
I'd say it's generally a good idea to avoid doing / not doing anything that could result in your partner regretting sexual contact with you. That sort of thing isn't really good for either person involved.
I think Belruel's point was that you can't say that a previous marriage and being transgendered are morally equivalent, which is true but not really relevant, because the analogy is only meant in terms of "is it ok to hide embarrassing things from your partner even if society unfairly judges you for it?"
No attempt to state that being transgender is better or worse than drug addiction, divorce, liking foreign movies, psychological disorders, being really into jogging every day and seriously getting pissed if you can't, whatever. There's no value judgment intended in the analogy, so Bel's correct (assuming I'm accurately assessing Bel's point) but I don't think it matters.
yes i was saying that people equating infidelity with a transgendered person wanting to keep their own sense of self is not really even kind of the same.
i was not saying that it is ok to hide such an important fact from your serious relationship partner, but i can understand why they may want to.
It's transphobic because it implies that you know better than the transperson what a "real woman" is, and you deny their self-identification.
A transgendered person can choose to identify however they want, but their choice is not binding upon me.
I have no desire to take away a transgendered person's right to live as they see fit, but I do not consider a transgendered man, whether pre- or post-op, to be the same as a woman.
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I'd say this is most certainly a pre-date conversation. When you get down to brass tax, this is a pretty huge issue to most people. Deceit should not be used to secure companionship.
This. We can argue all day about whether or not it should be an issue, but the fact is, for many many people it is one. That alone makes disclosure crucial.
right here. this is it.
i mean, obviously the trans individual has the right not to disclose his or her initial sex. there is no question of that right. but is it a good idea? will it lead to a healthy relationship? probably not. whether or not you think this is acceptable or a consequence of transphobia, it's true.
Similarly, Pat Robertson has the right to dress up like a woman and hit up lesbian bars to "convert" lesbians, but we still get to call him a fuckface.
I'm also not really clear on the whole "trans" thing. With the exception of a few conditions and specialist uses (the olympics), gender is defined by ones gonads, so why can't someone just be called a dude until he gets the knife? You don't get to call yourself a Jew unless you get the kosher stamp or whatever it is they do when they're done with you.
I'm not entirely sure I can agree with that. I don't see many situations where waiting any extended period of time would help the relationship. If the person is willing to accept a transgender relationship then all you've really done is potentially mislead them. If they're not, then all you've done is very literally misled them and they'll be very very pissed about it.
The two exceptions I can imagine are feeling unsafe outing yourself as transgender due to a fear of discrimination and hoping that people will "learn to accept you" after X amount of dates. Both valid concerns, but neither really successfully addressed by hiding your transgender status. I can see a valid reason for not openly advertising your status because of the former, but in a realistic relationship I don't see waiting past the first or maybe second date as working out very well.
Personally, I'm not interested in a relationship with a transgender individual. If I'm informed early on in a relationship, its more a "oh, well, that's kind of a dealbreaker for me but you seem like a cool person etc.e tc." The longer the (theoretical) relationship goes without some kind of discussion, the closer it goes to "Uh, thanks for hiding this from me and lying to me, by the way go fuck yourself."
I've been in situations similar to the above (not regarding gender issues, but regarding embarassing disclosures of non-fault issues that have serious implications in a relationship). Let me tell you, being ambushed by a big reveal is one of the worst things in the world for a relationship, and not only was it a terrible experience for me to go through, it pretty much set the relationship on a crash course to failure instantly.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited October 2009
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Also, for god's sake, if it's already semi-common knowledge amongst a shared circle of people, it's really unfair to keep the boyfriend/girlfriend in the dark, especially if the only reason they don't know is because they're new to the crowd. At that point, disclosure should happen at the hand-holding stage.
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In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I hope I'm your Secret Sodomizer this year.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
I can't even believe this is up for discussion
Of course you need to let people know that you're transgendered if you're dating them
This whole "debate" is fucking ludicrous
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
I'm going to go ahead and just call you an idiot if that's ok.
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Why would any trans person ever want to hide it with people like you around?
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
You sir are a rugged and tough manly man with absolutely no insecurities whatsoever.
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
I learned this from the book "She's Not There" (very interesting, by the way).
But realistically, when you're in transition you're going to need a lot of fucking support. A lot. Why on earth would you, during a vulnerable time, attempt to pass fully as your new gender in a relationship with someone who did not have a full (and supportive) understanding of your situation?
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
You would punch someone because you assume something based on how they look?
Damn it young black man in the do-rag and baggy jeans, you don't get to graduate from Harvard! :punch:
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue from a "how I'd react" standpoint. I've never been in that situation.
Personally, though, I think it is important from the standpoint of wanting to have children one day. As far as I know, science hasn't been able to give a transgendered woman a functional uterus yet, so that would be a pretty big deal breaker to me. I also understand that's not exactly something you decide on the first date... so I don't think it's something one would necessarily need to reveal at the "exchanging business cards" stage.
but you are a woman now, in body and mind? nothing so destructive. it does not hurt anyone unless the person has prejudices against it, which is why i said it is important to talk about it before getting serious. transgendered people are not "pretending" to be a gender, it is not a game, they are not going around hoping no one finds out they are a man, they are a woman as much as i am.
Having my own biological children some day is important to me. It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but if I was dating a woman who knew that she was infertile, for any reason, and she did not tell me by the point things were progressing towards marriage, I would be rather unhappy not to have been allowed to make my own decision there. Same goes for a woman who is fertile, but does not want to have children. That's a perfectly valid choice for her, but it is not my choice, and neither of us should be expected to "give in" to the other if we do not want to.
A relationship has two people in it, and they both have a right to be informed of what the relationship is, if things are serious.
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
And you would assault them because...
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
I wouldn't say that anyone is obligated to tell their partner anything.
You kind of are unless you think it's cool to be the only one that makes the decisions.
I mean, if someone doesn't want to be in a relationship with a transgendered for whatever reason, it's kind of a dick move to ignore their feelings on the subject.
Though in general if that is the one and only barrier they might have a problem too.
I'm having a problem agreeing with this arguement as well
That's like saying because I don't date men due to not being gay I have a problem. No, I don't have a problem, homosexuality just ain't my thing
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
Y'know, this thread had to have been started as a joke.
well there is no need to parse it out, gender and sex and all of this is general knowledge. any common person of adequate intelligence knows that sex does not equal gender. this isn't even a world wide thing, there are other cultures that have more than 2 genders.
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
The only thing that would suck if you were in the position of a SO who had this bomb dropped on them and denied the other a relationship because you're uncomfortable is you could easily be subject to the kind of hate presented in the link.
I know gays who are very heterophobic which is sad but unfortunately human nature. In every group you're going to have good people and horrible horrible people.
Btw, they called straight people 'breeders' which we learned was a derogatory term. When my sister started using that I nearly blew up at her.
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
Scalfin, gender and sex are not the same thing, and our culture treats different genders differently, expecting different behavior from them for them to fill different roles. People who are transitioning have to live as their gender for at least a year before getting sex reassignment surgery precisely because of these differing roles.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
And you have to go through several years of crap to convert to Judaism. You still don't get to call yourself a Jew until you get the kosher stamp.
Y'know, this thread had to have been started as a joke.
No, 100% genuine. I mean, I know how I feel, but I wanted to see how the rest of you guys reacted to it, and I was really curious how the debate would progress. Reading the original debate over on Feministing was infuriating. There's not much give and take over there.
In the interest of honesty, I really don't know how I would react if I found out I was dating a transgendered person. I mean, I'd like to say, "Hey, no biggie," but it probably would be. I certainly wouldn't be angry or feel deceived, and if there was a lot of chemistry I would really try to make it work. And maybe I could. But I really couldn't say unless I was in that situation.
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Why would any trans person ever want to hide it with people like you around?
Painting me as the bad guy with that logic is ridiculous. Transies hide their nature because people like me would be pissed if they hid their nature and became intimate with us?
Here's a novel thought, be honest and open about what you are. You may not think that I have a right to know if the 'girl' I'm hooking up with was born with balls, but I do.
If you're cool hooking up with gender reassignees, that's cool brah. Not. my. thing.
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Pre-Op, that's more complicated for me.
Then they are a woman who REALLY IS A WOMAN now, and anyone who says they aren't are just being jerkfaces IMO.
I think it's still valid to note that a gender identity denotes, for many, a class of people one might be romantically attracted to.
Well, that could include nullos as well, and I think this thread isn't really about them. That's a whole different pot of (franks and beans/roast beef/neither)
Perhaps instead:
"That man has a vagina."
"That woman has a penis."
Because then it's not really a determination of which was the "pre-op" or "post-op" biological gender. Plus, I get to say "Buck Angel" and give a few people mental BSODs when they Google it. (Hint - Extremely NSFW. There's a reason there's no link there.)
Re the thread title: if the extent of the relationship is rubbing your respective bits, whatever they be, together, then no, it doesn't need to be determined if they're OEM or aftermarket. If you're going down the Till Death Do We Part road, yeah, you might want to air that out once things take a turn for serious - if for no reason other than a very simple reason many "conventional" couples don't make it.
Partner A: I want children.
Partner B: I don't want and/or am physically incapable of having children.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'm willing to give the trans-person some leeway here, because it's a pretty major thing to reveal. And it's something that could have some pretty terrible side effects if the prospective SO is not an open-minded sort. What if the person takes it so badly that they decide to reveal it to everyone out of spite?
The SO-in-waiting has a right to know, but I think the trans-person has a right to determine for themselves how they think such a revelation would go over. And that might take a few dates. It's sort of absurd to expect that the person has to out themselves every time they think they may want to date someone - you're effectively saying they have no right to conceal their nature from anyone, because that's effectively what's going to happen.
did you read the last bit of my post that you quoted? also, a drug addict is taking part in self destructive behavior, it is not equal to trangenderism in any way. infidelity is the same, and cancer is just a damn touchy subject. if you are dying, and your partner will have to deal with you dying relatively soon, of course they should know.
but you are a woman now, in body and mind? nothing so destructive. it does not hurt anyone unless the person has prejudices against it, which is why i said it is important to talk about it before getting serious. transgendered people are not "pretending" to be a gender, it is not a game, they are not going around hoping no one finds out they are a man, they are a woman as much as i am.
I'll go with this, yes.
Generally polite to refrain from makeouts until after the revelation, though.
Absolutely.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I'd say it's generally a good idea to avoid doing / not doing anything that could result in your partner regretting sexual contact with you. That sort of thing isn't really good for either person involved.
yes i was saying that people equating infidelity with a transgendered person wanting to keep their own sense of self is not really even kind of the same.
i was not saying that it is ok to hide such an important fact from your serious relationship partner, but i can understand why they may want to.
I have no desire to take away a transgendered person's right to live as they see fit, but I do not consider a transgendered man, whether pre- or post-op, to be the same as a woman.
Rigorous Scholarship
Similarly, Pat Robertson has the right to dress up like a woman and hit up lesbian bars to "convert" lesbians, but we still get to call him a fuckface.
I'm also not really clear on the whole "trans" thing. With the exception of a few conditions and specialist uses (the olympics), gender is defined by ones gonads, so why can't someone just be called a dude until he gets the knife? You don't get to call yourself a Jew unless you get the kosher stamp or whatever it is they do when they're done with you.
The two exceptions I can imagine are feeling unsafe outing yourself as transgender due to a fear of discrimination and hoping that people will "learn to accept you" after X amount of dates. Both valid concerns, but neither really successfully addressed by hiding your transgender status. I can see a valid reason for not openly advertising your status because of the former, but in a realistic relationship I don't see waiting past the first or maybe second date as working out very well.
Personally, I'm not interested in a relationship with a transgender individual. If I'm informed early on in a relationship, its more a "oh, well, that's kind of a dealbreaker for me but you seem like a cool person etc.e tc." The longer the (theoretical) relationship goes without some kind of discussion, the closer it goes to "Uh, thanks for hiding this from me and lying to me, by the way go fuck yourself."
I've been in situations similar to the above (not regarding gender issues, but regarding embarassing disclosures of non-fault issues that have serious implications in a relationship). Let me tell you, being ambushed by a big reveal is one of the worst things in the world for a relationship, and not only was it a terrible experience for me to go through, it pretty much set the relationship on a crash course to failure instantly.
I hope I'm your Secret Sodomizer this year.
Of course you need to let people know that you're transgendered if you're dating them
This whole "debate" is fucking ludicrous
I would punch them in the face. If in public, I would adapt a line from the third act of late 80s gender-bending Comedy 'Just one of the Boys"
"It's OK. She used to have a dick."
I mean really, call me a hate-monger, a 'transphobe', whatever, but if you're representing yourself as a woman sexually to someone, there better be no need to parse out what a real woman is, or the difference between sex or gender, or what have you.
If it's more complicated than a boys/girls bathroom sign, speak up.
Edit: also because a lot of FTMs hold off on getting SRS because the results are still not that great.
Why would any trans person ever want to hide it with people like you around?
And debate about how they should be referred to...that seems to be mainly resolved though.
You sir are a rugged and tough manly man with absolutely no insecurities whatsoever.
I learned this from the book "She's Not There" (very interesting, by the way).
But realistically, when you're in transition you're going to need a lot of fucking support. A lot. Why on earth would you, during a vulnerable time, attempt to pass fully as your new gender in a relationship with someone who did not have a full (and supportive) understanding of your situation?
You would punch someone because you assume something based on how they look?
Damn it young black man in the do-rag and baggy jeans, you don't get to graduate from Harvard! :punch:
Personally, though, I think it is important from the standpoint of wanting to have children one day. As far as I know, science hasn't been able to give a transgendered woman a functional uterus yet, so that would be a pretty big deal breaker to me. I also understand that's not exactly something you decide on the first date... so I don't think it's something one would necessarily need to reveal at the "exchanging business cards" stage.
Having my own biological children some day is important to me. It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but if I was dating a woman who knew that she was infertile, for any reason, and she did not tell me by the point things were progressing towards marriage, I would be rather unhappy not to have been allowed to make my own decision there. Same goes for a woman who is fertile, but does not want to have children. That's a perfectly valid choice for her, but it is not my choice, and neither of us should be expected to "give in" to the other if we do not want to.
A relationship has two people in it, and they both have a right to be informed of what the relationship is, if things are serious.
And you would assault them because...
I'm having a problem agreeing with this arguement as well
That's like saying because I don't date men due to not being gay I have a problem. No, I don't have a problem, homosexuality just ain't my thing
if you cannot tell by touch, taste, sight or smell that the woman in front of you is transgendered, what is your real objection? i am honestly curious. i still think that you should be made aware of the history if you are going to be seriously committed to this person as you should with other such baggage, but why is there a problem? is it that she can't bear children? should a barren woman tell you she is barren before you get serious?
I know gays who are very heterophobic which is sad but unfortunately human nature. In every group you're going to have good people and horrible horrible people.
Btw, they called straight people 'breeders' which we learned was a derogatory term. When my sister started using that I nearly blew up at her.
Oh god what have you done what have you dooooone
If she knows she can't have children, it's something I would expect her to let me know once that sort of a situation seems possible.
And you have to go through several years of crap to convert to Judaism. You still don't get to call yourself a Jew until you get the kosher stamp.
No, 100% genuine. I mean, I know how I feel, but I wanted to see how the rest of you guys reacted to it, and I was really curious how the debate would progress. Reading the original debate over on Feministing was infuriating. There's not much give and take over there.
Painting me as the bad guy with that logic is ridiculous. Transies hide their nature because people like me would be pissed if they hid their nature and became intimate with us?
Here's a novel thought, be honest and open about what you are. You may not think that I have a right to know if the 'girl' I'm hooking up with was born with balls, but I do.
If you're cool hooking up with gender reassignees, that's cool brah. Not. my. thing.