Considering that adults generally only lie about Santa (the Easter Bunny, etc.) for their own vicarious enjoyment of their kid's wonderment, that seems a little disingenuous to me.
Because doing things just to watch your kids be really happy and excited is a terrible thing?
That's a new one.
We told our kids there was a Santa for the same reason we take them to Disneyland, play games with them, take them to see movies we know we'll hate, let them eat atrocious piles of mismatched frozen yogurt with unlikely accoutrements (last night: eggnog yogurt swirled with strawberry-banana, covered in peanut butter cups and gummy-bears), take them to the park, buy them random presents, let them choose dinner, or snuggle on the couch with them watching some god-awful children's show on TV - we love them, and derive pleasure from their happiness.
You can love them and make them happy without lying to them. You'll note that even if Santa were crossed off that list, there are still plenty of wonderful things there for them to laugh and giggle and jump up and down about.
Besides, as others have mentioned, kids are plenty good at coming up with their own imaginary fantasy worlds by themselves.
Sure, I agree. Heck, I'm one of the people who said that kids are plenty good at coming up with their own fantasy worlds, though I was using that in defense of Santa Claus.
My issue with - and maybe I misinterpreted you - the idea that parents tell their kids about Santa just because they like watching their kids be excited by the concept, and that this was somehow a bad thing. I think most parents who lie about Santa do so because they like seeing the joy on their kids' faces. (Well, many people probably do it in no small part because it's What You Do, but to the extent that there's a reason outside of naked tradition, I'd say it's to make their kids happy.)
There are many lies that parents tell their kids for selfish reasons, but I don't think Santa is one of them.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
Kids still get excited and are joyful about the season regardless of what you tell them about Santa.
Very true. My little girl is still totally stoked about Christmas, Santa or no.
Aslo, snow and no school makes it extra fun.
It also makes Jack a dull boy.
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I don't regard people who convince their kids that Santa is real as neccessarily malicious. However, I question whether doing so is healthy for the child or society at large, for the myriad reasons that have been brought up before.
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I think it's parents who use Santa as a threat that I have problems with, mostly, or those who push the Santa thing too far by staging it, having them write letters, etc. Santa as a myth, or even teaching them the story of Saint Nicholas (good themes about giving, etc.), that's ok.
Though if I ever had kids I wouldn't tell them about Santa. As Mulysa pointed out, they'd get enough of that from the culture around them, and they're already excited enough about presents, school breaks, and snow.
I think it's parents who use Santa as a threat that I have problems with, mostly, or those who push the Santa thing too far by staging it, having them write letters, etc. Santa as a myth, or even teaching them the story of Saint Nicholas (good themes about giving, etc.), that's ok.
Though if I ever had kids I wouldn't tell them about Santa. As Mulysa pointed out, they'd get enough of that from the culture around them, and they're already excited enough about presents, school breaks, and snow.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of parents working to prolong the myth once the kid starts to get wise. If the kid comes to the right conclusion and you start lying to him just to keep it going? Not cool.
Part of my aversion to Santa might just be from the idea of going to the mall (or wherever) to visit Santa. By some accounts it's a pretty harrowing experience for everyone involved.
I think the main problem with Christmas is that most parents do not explain to their children that the "spirit" of Christmas is not in receiving but in giving. The myth of Santa Claus only exacerbates that problem because, once again, many parents give their children the wrong idea: Act like a good child and you get shit. Hell, act good the day before Christmas and you'll get free shit. This automatically instills the image in the mind of children that they are entitled to things for momentary good behavior. Which is a load of bull.
This is why materialism and superficial behavior is practically worshiped in western countries, if not predominantly in America. We are basically told to aspire to receiving shit, and put on a facade to do it. Charity, good will, and being around the ones you love is what Christmas is about, not entitlement.
Then again, this is the problem with most child myths. What is the reward bestowed upon you by the tooth fairy? Money. How about the Easter Bunny? Candy and, in some families, money/gifts. Valentine's Day has devolved into the same load of crap. It becomes less about enjoying the company of others and more about what shit you are going to receive. Crazy stuff we teach children.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I think the main problem with Christmas is that most parents do not explain to their children that the "spirit" of Christmas is not in receiving but in giving.
Good point - I'd prefer to emphasize the "exchanging gifts" of Christmas rather than that "getting gifts." Sure, kids are going to be more excited about what they're getting - after all, their parents are better equipped to give them things they want than vice-versa. However, even at a young age kids can get pretty excited about giving or making a gift for someone else and watching them open it. When gifts come from Santa, you can't give something back (cookies notwithstanding), plus there's no one to say "thank you" to.
PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Where I grew up (Hawai'i) Valentine's Day, for kids at least, was all about baking/making something (cookies, cupcakes, brownies, hurricane popcorn, chichi dango) with your mom the day before hand, then bringing it to your class to share the next day. Some kids would also give out a Valentine to each classmate.
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited December 2009
Holidays are what you make them, as are the myths associated with them. Telling your kids there's a Santa Claus doesn't need to result in consumerism or materialism.
Also, kids going to see Santa at the mall can be really cool if the kid is in the right mindset. Both our kids were ambivalent the first time, terrified the second time, and stoked the third time and thereafter. (Well, I predict Riley will be stoked, but maybe not.)
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Where I grew up (Hawai'i) Valentine's Day, for kids at least, was all about baking/making something (cookies, cupcakes, brownies, hurricane popcorn, chichi dango) with your mom the day before hand, then bringing it to your class to share the next day. Some kids would also give out a Valentine to each classmate.
See, I am all for this sort of stuff. However, the notion nowadays is to buy things to make people happy. I think that is counter-intuitive to the nature of Valentine's Day.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited December 2009
My wife haven't celebrated Valentine's Day on Valentine's Day in years. Trying to deal with the crowds and needing to make reservations three weeks out is retarded.
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I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them. If they really were "traumatized" over being lied to by their parents, and not because they're sissies, then I'd rather not subject my kid to that.
And I'd also like my kid to want to be good to impress ME. Not some made up mother fucker. I want my kid to want to be good so daddy will be happy and give out the rewards.
Even though "being good for Santa" never once entered my mind when I was a kid and doing decidedly non good things.
EDIT
Anyone else play Dirty Santa during Chrissymas? Basically keeps the family from being bogged down with individual gifts. All the guys buy a gift and then draw numbers. Lowest number picks from the gifts. Unwraps. Second number can either steal the first gift or pick one. So on and so forth. Can't have your own gift and you can't steal the same gift twice.
I have seen this almost ruin family relationships for the women.
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
Anyone else play Dirty Santa during Chrissymas? Basically keeps the family from being bogged down with individual gifts. All the guys buy a gift and then draw numbers. Lowest number picks from the gifts. Unwraps. Second number can either steal the first gift or pick one. So on and so forth. Can't have your own gift and you can't steal the same gift twice.
I have seen this almost ruin family relationships for the women.
Whee, generic gifts that are not at all tailored to their recipients! Whoo!
The non-retarded way to do this is just draw names out of a hat, and have each person buy one gift for one person. Some friends of mind have a crazy-large family, and they'd have to buy for something like three dozen people otherwise.
My wife and I are blessed with small families.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
Yeah, we've done "yankee swap" at extended family gatherings before. Everyone always ends up stealing the $10 someone threw in an envelope.
Meh. Our gifts tend to be "just right". I got a big USB flash drive which I know most could use. I'm sure someone will get a tool set, which I could use.
Ain't about the gifts but the slow roasted ham and hanging out. Basically a formality.
Yeah, we've done "yankee swap" at extended family gatherings before. Everyone always ends up stealing the $10 someone threw in an envelope.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
I don't even remember what I was thinking when I officially found out. Probably because I suspected long before it was confirmed.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
I don't even remember what I was thinking when I officially found out. Probably because I suspected long before it was confirmed.
I had already known a very long time before my mom "told" me. Which just involved her asking me, "So do still believe in Santa? No? Oh, alright then."
Most of the "traumatized" stories I hear come from some pretty whiny folks who also tend to think that everything a parent does drastically shapes a young kids mind.
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CindersWhose sails were black when it was windyRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
My sister convinced me that Santa had died when I was 5. I never got to really realize that Santa wasn't real, because by the time I did, I believed he had been dead for a few years.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
This is exactly my upbringing, and it is the parental style I plan to take as my own.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
This is exactly my upbringing, and it is the parental style I plan to take as my own.
It's what I do.
Good times.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
This is exactly my upbringing, and it is the parental style I plan to take as my own.
It's what I do.
Good times.
I, too, was brought up this way and plan to employ the style when I have kids.
Not only is it fun, it encourages critical thinking and healthy skepticism.
I don't think "kids these days" think santa exists past the age of four or five or so. Basically, by the time they're old enough to even question whether santa exists, they already know the truth.
That being said, I don't really see the use of lying to your kid about it.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
This is exactly my upbringing, and it is the parental style I plan to take as my own.
It's what I do.
Good times.
I, too, was brought up this way and plan to employ the style when I have kids.
Not only is it fun, it encourages critical thinking and healthy skepticism.
So almost everyone in this thread is going to end up being Calvin's dad.
Cool.
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"I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
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CindersWhose sails were black when it was windyRegistered Userregular
Okay, I'm actually at home now, and my "chores" for the day are done (wooo, snow blower is ready for the downfall we're supposed to get tonight!) and can contribute:
First of all, I'm totally getting my kids to believe in Santa Claus. Mostly because I loved the whole thing when I was a kid. I found out in grade 3 when some kid was like "it's just your parents, you know". Picture the "How I Met Your Mother" episode where they talk about their perception of their SO being shattered when an annoying habit they have is pointed out to them. I distinctly remember the moment.
Of course it made sense, and it kinda made me feel silly, but I didn't blame my parents at all. Being traumatized? Please. After all, it wasn't some generous stranger in a red suit that made December 25th such a joyous day for me, it was my parents all along! I do remember going on pretending to believe for a couple years mostly because a) I have a sister 3 years my younger and didn't wanna spoil it for her, and b) i was afraid if my parents knew I knew, I'd somehow get less presents. Hah!
At the end of the day, though, I'm a... traditionalist? I love traditions. Family traditions, especially. I'm looking forward to making a few of my own when I get married and start having kids. Yes, it is a lie to tell kids Santa is real, but you know what else is? "It's all going to be alright", "those jeans don't make your ass look fat", etc. etc.. I don't think lying is inherently bad, it's your intention behind it. My "lying" to my future kids will get their imaginations going. It will fill them with wonder and glee. And really, that's all I want for them. To be able to live in a "magical" world for a short period of time before reality sets in.
Sure, I could pop in Planet Earth (and probably will, I love that miniseries), and have them wonder at nature, and science and other things in this world that are wondrous. But there's just something about magic that nothing can compare to. I remember one time I came downstairs on Christmas morning, and "Santa" had eaten 2 of the 3 cookies I left for him, drank some of the milk, and not only taken my letter with him, but had replied back! I will never forget that moment. And I want my future kids to have moments like that too.
I do think that the concerns about materialism are valid, though. That will be a tough thing to keep from creeping into kids' minds alongside the whole "HOLY CRAP, SANTA LEFT ME PRESENTS" thing. But really you can get that without Santa Claus. I think if you put the emphasis on gift "exchanging" rather than "receiving" whether or not you decide to include your child(ren) in the Santa Claus myth is something that is beneficial. Sounds like ElJeffe's Maddie has a good concept of this. Well done!
I can see both sides, but at the end of the day, I want my kids to experience some magic every once and a while. And Santa's a perfect way to do that.
Children need structure while growing up, lying to children seems to undermine your authority to establish that structure. The only time, I would see it would be okay to lie to your child is if you are blatantly trying to teach them critical thinking skills.
For the people who think that Santa Claus is a necessary part of a child's growth process: Do you think that non-Christians deprive their children of imagination because they don't celebrate Christmas?
Children need structure while growing up, lying to children seems to undermine your authority to establish that structure. The only time, I would see it would be okay to lie to your child is if you are blatantly trying to teach them critical thinking skills.
How does it undermine your authority in this case?
For the people who think that Santa Claus is a necessary part of a child's growth process: Do you think that non-Christians deprive their children of imagination because they don't celebrate Christmas?
I don't think anyone has said that Santa Claus is "necessary", so I wouldn't expect an answer for this one.
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PasserbyeI am much older than you.in Beach CityRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I think if you have their magical world (imaginary world) rooted firmly in reality (going back to my deep sea creatures example) then their sense of wonder will last, as opposed to Santa-wonder which will inevitably end some day. If you teach them early to have wonder in something that lasts, it can give them something as they grow up and realize that all of the world (namely, other people/society) isn't so wonderful.
Not sure how clear that is, but I hope it makes sense.
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
Plus there's no reason a kid can't find wonder in things he knows aren't true. One of my earliest memories is watching a VHS my dad had of "The Magic Flute" (my dad's a music professor, he had tons of opera on video and very few cartoons). I distinctly remember the costumes, big-ass dragon at the beginning, subtitled lyrics, crazy scenery. I was awestruck by that show. But I wasn't sitting there going "Wow, dragons and magic cloud boys and singing bird men are real! They exist!" Deep down I knew that dragon was made of cardboard or something. That didn't mean I enjoyed it any less.
Children need structure while growing up, lying to children seems to undermine your authority to establish that structure. The only time, I would see it would be okay to lie to your child is if you are blatantly trying to teach them critical thinking skills.
Meh, not really. It's more about how you handle the lie, and the revelation of the truth. 90% of the stuff you tell your five year old is going to be forgotten by the time they're adults, anyway. I mean, yes, they need structure, but lying about Santa doesn't interfere with that. Unless you really go too far with it.
For the people who think that Santa Claus is a necessary part of a child's growth process: Do you think that non-Christians deprive their children of imagination because they don't celebrate Christmas?
Many or most non-Christians also celebrate Christmas. It's a fairly secularized holiday.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Both militant Christians AND militant Atheists seem to HATE Christmas. Militant Christians think that Santa takes emphasis off Jesus' birth and that's bad, and militant Atheists think that believing in Santa is precursor to believing in God.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Both militant Christians AND militant Atheists seem to HATE Christmas. Militant Christians think that Santa takes emphasis off Jesus' birth and that's bad, and militant Atheists think that believing in Santa is precursor to believing in God.
Militant Everythings hate everything. It comes with being militant.
Both militant Christians AND militant Atheists seem to HATE Christmas. Militant Christians think that Santa takes emphasis off Jesus' birth and that's bad, and militant Atheists think that believing in Santa is precursor to believing in God.
Militant Everythings hate everything. It comes with being militant.
True. But it's my secret hope that Santa will bring the two groups together in a common bond....
Both militant Christians AND militant Atheists seem to HATE Christmas. Militant Christians think that Santa takes emphasis off Jesus' birth and that's bad, and militant Atheists think that believing in Santa is precursor to believing in God.
I'm a non-militant atheist and I hate Christmas because in my family it's nothing but a three-week screaming anger-fest right in the middle of what should be a nice, pleasant winter. There's more yelling and fighting here during the holidays than at any other time of the year, and I'm fairly certain that once I'm on my own I will not be celebrating the holiday.
Hopefully one day people of all backgrounds can join together in mutual hatred of Christmas!
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Hogfather is the holiday lie of choice.
Sure, I agree. Heck, I'm one of the people who said that kids are plenty good at coming up with their own fantasy worlds, though I was using that in defense of Santa Claus.
My issue with - and maybe I misinterpreted you - the idea that parents tell their kids about Santa just because they like watching their kids be excited by the concept, and that this was somehow a bad thing. I think most parents who lie about Santa do so because they like seeing the joy on their kids' faces. (Well, many people probably do it in no small part because it's What You Do, but to the extent that there's a reason outside of naked tradition, I'd say it's to make their kids happy.)
There are many lies that parents tell their kids for selfish reasons, but I don't think Santa is one of them.
Very true. My little girl is still totally stoked about Christmas, Santa or no.
It also makes Jack a dull boy.
Though if I ever had kids I wouldn't tell them about Santa. As Mulysa pointed out, they'd get enough of that from the culture around them, and they're already excited enough about presents, school breaks, and snow.
Face Twit Rav Gram
I just don't like the idea of tricking kids into mistaking fiction for reality.
--
Santa: Teach the Controversy.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of parents working to prolong the myth once the kid starts to get wise. If the kid comes to the right conclusion and you start lying to him just to keep it going? Not cool.
Part of my aversion to Santa might just be from the idea of going to the mall (or wherever) to visit Santa. By some accounts it's a pretty harrowing experience for everyone involved.
This is why materialism and superficial behavior is practically worshiped in western countries, if not predominantly in America. We are basically told to aspire to receiving shit, and put on a facade to do it. Charity, good will, and being around the ones you love is what Christmas is about, not entitlement.
Then again, this is the problem with most child myths. What is the reward bestowed upon you by the tooth fairy? Money. How about the Easter Bunny? Candy and, in some families, money/gifts. Valentine's Day has devolved into the same load of crap. It becomes less about enjoying the company of others and more about what shit you are going to receive. Crazy stuff we teach children.
Good point - I'd prefer to emphasize the "exchanging gifts" of Christmas rather than that "getting gifts." Sure, kids are going to be more excited about what they're getting - after all, their parents are better equipped to give them things they want than vice-versa. However, even at a young age kids can get pretty excited about giving or making a gift for someone else and watching them open it. When gifts come from Santa, you can't give something back (cookies notwithstanding), plus there's no one to say "thank you" to.
Face Twit Rav Gram
Also, kids going to see Santa at the mall can be really cool if the kid is in the right mindset. Both our kids were ambivalent the first time, terrified the second time, and stoked the third time and thereafter. (Well, I predict Riley will be stoked, but maybe not.)
See, I am all for this sort of stuff. However, the notion nowadays is to buy things to make people happy. I think that is counter-intuitive to the nature of Valentine's Day.
I err on the side of HELL NO. I personally didn't take the whole Santa thing too hard when I was a kid, but I've come across so many people that said they were traumatized from discovering that their parents lied to them. If they really were "traumatized" over being lied to by their parents, and not because they're sissies, then I'd rather not subject my kid to that.
And I'd also like my kid to want to be good to impress ME. Not some made up mother fucker. I want my kid to want to be good so daddy will be happy and give out the rewards.
Even though "being good for Santa" never once entered my mind when I was a kid and doing decidedly non good things.
EDIT
Anyone else play Dirty Santa during Chrissymas? Basically keeps the family from being bogged down with individual gifts. All the guys buy a gift and then draw numbers. Lowest number picks from the gifts. Unwraps. Second number can either steal the first gift or pick one. So on and so forth. Can't have your own gift and you can't steal the same gift twice.
I have seen this almost ruin family relationships for the women.
If there is an epidemic of kids being traumatized by Santa stories, then our kids are a bunch of fucking pussies.
Seriously. My parents lied to me whenever they thought it would be funny, I never got traumatized by it.
Whee, generic gifts that are not at all tailored to their recipients! Whoo!
The non-retarded way to do this is just draw names out of a hat, and have each person buy one gift for one person. Some friends of mind have a crazy-large family, and they'd have to buy for something like three dozen people otherwise.
My wife and I are blessed with small families.
Ain't about the gifts but the slow roasted ham and hanging out. Basically a formality.
No cash rule at our gatherings.
I don't even remember what I was thinking when I officially found out. Probably because I suspected long before it was confirmed.
I had already known a very long time before my mom "told" me. Which just involved her asking me, "So do still believe in Santa? No? Oh, alright then."
Most of the "traumatized" stories I hear come from some pretty whiny folks who also tend to think that everything a parent does drastically shapes a young kids mind.
This is exactly my upbringing, and it is the parental style I plan to take as my own.
It's what I do.
Good times.
I, too, was brought up this way and plan to employ the style when I have kids.
Not only is it fun, it encourages critical thinking and healthy skepticism.
That being said, I don't really see the use of lying to your kid about it.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
So almost everyone in this thread is going to end up being Calvin's dad.
Cool.
Otherwise, it seems a bit irresponsible to me.
Face Twit Rav Gram
First of all, I'm totally getting my kids to believe in Santa Claus. Mostly because I loved the whole thing when I was a kid. I found out in grade 3 when some kid was like "it's just your parents, you know". Picture the "How I Met Your Mother" episode where they talk about their perception of their SO being shattered when an annoying habit they have is pointed out to them. I distinctly remember the moment.
Of course it made sense, and it kinda made me feel silly, but I didn't blame my parents at all. Being traumatized? Please. After all, it wasn't some generous stranger in a red suit that made December 25th such a joyous day for me, it was my parents all along! I do remember going on pretending to believe for a couple years mostly because a) I have a sister 3 years my younger and didn't wanna spoil it for her, and b) i was afraid if my parents knew I knew, I'd somehow get less presents. Hah!
At the end of the day, though, I'm a... traditionalist? I love traditions. Family traditions, especially. I'm looking forward to making a few of my own when I get married and start having kids. Yes, it is a lie to tell kids Santa is real, but you know what else is? "It's all going to be alright", "those jeans don't make your ass look fat", etc. etc.. I don't think lying is inherently bad, it's your intention behind it. My "lying" to my future kids will get their imaginations going. It will fill them with wonder and glee. And really, that's all I want for them. To be able to live in a "magical" world for a short period of time before reality sets in.
Sure, I could pop in Planet Earth (and probably will, I love that miniseries), and have them wonder at nature, and science and other things in this world that are wondrous. But there's just something about magic that nothing can compare to. I remember one time I came downstairs on Christmas morning, and "Santa" had eaten 2 of the 3 cookies I left for him, drank some of the milk, and not only taken my letter with him, but had replied back! I will never forget that moment. And I want my future kids to have moments like that too.
I do think that the concerns about materialism are valid, though. That will be a tough thing to keep from creeping into kids' minds alongside the whole "HOLY CRAP, SANTA LEFT ME PRESENTS" thing. But really you can get that without Santa Claus. I think if you put the emphasis on gift "exchanging" rather than "receiving" whether or not you decide to include your child(ren) in the Santa Claus myth is something that is beneficial. Sounds like ElJeffe's Maddie has a good concept of this. Well done!
I can see both sides, but at the end of the day, I want my kids to experience some magic every once and a while. And Santa's a perfect way to do that.
For the people who think that Santa Claus is a necessary part of a child's growth process: Do you think that non-Christians deprive their children of imagination because they don't celebrate Christmas?
How does it undermine your authority in this case?
I don't think anyone has said that Santa Claus is "necessary", so I wouldn't expect an answer for this one.
Not sure how clear that is, but I hope it makes sense.
Face Twit Rav Gram
Meh, not really. It's more about how you handle the lie, and the revelation of the truth. 90% of the stuff you tell your five year old is going to be forgotten by the time they're adults, anyway. I mean, yes, they need structure, but lying about Santa doesn't interfere with that. Unless you really go too far with it.
Many or most non-Christians also celebrate Christmas. It's a fairly secularized holiday.
Both militant Christians AND militant Atheists seem to HATE Christmas. Militant Christians think that Santa takes emphasis off Jesus' birth and that's bad, and militant Atheists think that believing in Santa is precursor to believing in God.
Militant Everythings hate everything. It comes with being militant.
True. But it's my secret hope that Santa will bring the two groups together in a common bond....
Hopefully one day people of all backgrounds can join together in mutual hatred of Christmas!