I hear... rumors, sometimes, at the school I work at
currently, I'm under the impression that it's good to talk to kids early about sex
yeah but see
your definition of early and others' definitions of early probably aren't the same
what's healthy for a child's development isn't relative
outside of physical development, it's dependent on the parents and how they choose to prioritize the way their child is raised
do you think that the brain doesn't develop along with the rest of the body, or something
kids can't even comprehend sexuality until sometime around puberty, even early exposure to pornography can screw them up
cultural values are irrelevant
brains develop, sure, insofar as logical and abstract thinking
but the implication that cultural values are irrelevant to what kind of information a child should process is inane
look I'm not saying kids should be exposed to sex and shit early or late
I AM saying that insisting that there is a fixed time for which a child to be exposed to a specific topic or subject is DEFINITELY up to cultural context and priority
if you're raised around a certain kind of stimuli then you will respond to subsequent stimuli one way
if you're raised around ANOTHER set of stimuli then you will respond to subsequent stimuli ANOTHER way
and what stimuli a child gets is largely left to the parents
obviously
that doesn't mean that everyone's choices are equally healthy or valid, though
yeah totally agree with you on that one
sometimes I think there might actually be something to the idea one New Zealander politician had
you know, pay people to have sterilisations
specifically, people who have proven to suck at parenting or who have mental disorders who have a high chance of passing that on to a child and other things of that sort
I don't agree with it or support it
but man
there's something TO it I dunno
children absolutely take after their parents like that
children of addicts, abusers, criminals, etc generally follow in their footsteps
frankly the worst thing in the world is idiots and assholes having kids
if tweakers quit having kids, after a generation we wouldn't have to lock our doors at night
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited February 2010
yeah even if it's not a genetic inheritance
the kids watch their parents grow up that way, the way they look at life in general is heavily influenced based on what their parents do to themselves and whatnot
parental habits become child habits simply because the vast majority of us all learn through example
how do you self sufficiently farm outside of society when all land is privately or federally owned
Not that it has any bearing on my question, but just walk randomly through Arkansas until you find a nice piece of land that nobody has laid eyes on from an altitude of less than half a mile in the last four decades.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
honestly we should be paying people to get vasectomies
need a quick 5 thou?
vascectomy
of course we'd have to fix it so they're unreversible and iron out all the buyer's remorse-like legal problems we might face
the fiancee and i have discussed it, it's something that is possible
and i like that idea, adoption
i figure, there's lots of kids who are already existent and could use a loving home and parents and so on
i know people who have been orphans and foster kids and the foster system tries its best but is largely terrible
so, the idea of sparing even 1 kid from that and giving them a better alternative is totally an appealing option for some future point in my life
this seems a much better alternative for me than begetting my own horrible mutant children and adding to the overall number of global mouths to the feed
why add more kids when there's kids right there who could use a family
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited February 2010
man what would the world be like if a judge could hand sterilisation down as a sentence
like not for just anyone who commits a crime
but the real problem cases who just can't seem to stay out of shit or the ones you read about in the news who accidentally (or even purposefully) kill their kids or do crazy shit to them
it'd be too late for the kids they fucked over but at least they ain't doing that shit to no more kids
how do you self sufficiently farm outside of society when all land is privately or federally owned
Not that it has any bearing on my question, but just walk randomly through Arkansas until you find a nice piece of land that nobody has laid eyes on from an altitude of less than half a mile in the last four decades.
for the last twenty years I've had daydreams of wandering off into the hills and making my own way
I've been in those conditions, I have the skill to do it, I just know that it's a stupid idea
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited February 2010
like I reckon if you can sentence a dude to die
you should be able to sentence him to not be able to reproduce
Look, I'm all for voluntary eugenics just for the sake of playing God, but paying people to get sterilized has a gross bias against the lower class. It rather aimlessly decreases the gene pool, and it doesn't actually address crime or bad parenting or whatever.
but it is for some people, and the people who can adopt and who adoption appeals to... should adopt
i mean, not everyone has the chops to be a doctor or a plumber or whatever, but those are necessary callings and the people who can do it and want to do it should do it, because someone ought to and it might as well be the people to whom it is best suited
so, i figure, given my views on the subject
it'd be almost wrong of me not to adopt at some point.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
Look, I'm all for voluntary eugenics just for the sake of playing God, but paying people to get sterilized has a gross bias against the lower class. It rather aimlessly decreases the gene pool, and it doesn't actually address crime or bad parenting or whatever.
yyyyyyyyep
not to rain on the parade of folks here but paying people to get sterilized is a bad idea and has social repercussions you might not quite understand
free sterilizations, however, are a good idea and i support those
worked great for me!
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
but it is for some people, and the people who can adopt and who adoption appeals to... should adopt
i mean, not everyone has the chops to be a doctor or a plumber or whatever, but those are necessary callings and the people who can do it and want to do it should do it, because someone ought to and it might as well be the people to whom it is best suited
so, i figure, given my views on the subject
it'd be almost wrong of me not to adopt at some point.
but then you'd have to get angry at all the super smart people that don't want to become doctors or lawyers and etc
if a dude with a 200 IQ wanted to be a garbageman because that's what he loved, you'd fault him for not doing what you think he should be doing
I mean i agree with adoption and everything but it's hard to say you look down on people for wanting their on kid rather than adopting one
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
Christina Aguilera is most definitely for the children
because children like playing in the dirt
and Christina sings about being Dirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty
Dudes I am pretty sure Xtina made a lot of her money off people under 18.
yeah so do horror movies and tobacco manufacturers
"for" != "consumed by"
I can't think of a single horror movie I've ever seen that I wasn't prepared for by the age of 12.
you're fucked up in the head, though
Are you imposing an objective standard for normalcy?
the inexistence of a singular person who embodies what may be considered normal does not preclude the existence of behaviors or circumstances that may be considered abnormal
What criteria do establish abnormality?
significant deviation from a generally-accepted standard or average, i s'pose
Wouldn't that largely be culturally relative?
not in terms of physical and mental (which is also physical but i'm putting it here for clarity's sake) development that have biological standards accepted by the medical community
If a self-sufficient farmer living outside of society is autistic, isn't the appreciation of his condition as deviant only relevant to the purview of the observing culture?
Autism is a disease that primarily affects social interactions so I'm sure it wouldn't cause much harm to a lone man who survives on his own (through performing repetitive behaviors, no less) but that doesn't mean that autism isn't a disorder. Yeah, if you were an alien coming to earth and observing only this man you probably wouldn't see that it affected him much, but he's biologically impaired.
What about a 6'6" Norwegian having to duck through doorways in southeast Asia?
Does he only look weird because he's different than everyone around him? Well, sure.
What about an 11 year old with enough experiential reasoning to interpret the actions in porn and the support of a sex-positive culture to obviate repression mechanisms?
The inability of an 11 year old to comprehend sexuality isn't because of any "repression mechanisms", it's simply beyond their upper limit of comprehension at that age because he's biologically not ready to understand sexuality. I'm sure he could have the actions performed by the copulating parties explained to him, but he wouldn't understand the motivation or context. Why the hell would an 11 year old be watching porn anyways? Why would sexuality be relevant to him at a pre-sexual stage and why would his exposure to this possibly be a healthy action?
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
Look, I'm all for voluntary eugenics just for the sake of playing God, but paying people to get sterilized has a gross bias against the lower class. It rather aimlessly decreases the gene pool, and it doesn't actually address crime or bad parenting or whatever.
yyyyyyyyep
not to rain on the parade of folks here but paying people to get sterilized is a bad idea and has social repercussions you might not quite understand
free sterilizations, however, are a good idea and i support those
worked great for me!
i did not think of that, and maybe i would have if i was taking this thread seriously
hmm
i guess we're talking about kids and stuff?
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
fallout uh
i vividly remember watching porn well before i left england
but it is for some people, and the people who can adopt and who adoption appeals to... should adopt
i mean, not everyone has the chops to be a doctor or a plumber or whatever, but those are necessary callings and the people who can do it and want to do it should do it, because someone ought to and it might as well be the people to whom it is best suited
so, i figure, given my views on the subject
it'd be almost wrong of me not to adopt at some point.
but then you'd have to get angry at all the super smart people that don't want to become doctors or lawyers and etc
if a dude with a 200 IQ wanted to be a garbageman because that's what he loved, you'd fault him for not doing what you think he should be doing
I mean i agree with adoption and everything but it's hard to say you look down on people for wanting their on kid rather than adopting one
whoa hey now rane what are you doing i am okay with you putting some things in my mouth but one of those things is not words
i am not saying those things you say that i am saying
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
although I also used to grab my dick and strum it like a guitar
so
oh no am i a broken
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
the kids watch their parents grow up that way, the way they look at life in general is heavily influenced based on what their parents do to themselves and whatnot
parental habits become child habits simply because the vast majority of us all learn through example
scary, really
Yeah, the people who instantly scream "nazi" at the first mention of genetics in a conversation like this conveniently fail to realize that parents provide both genes and environment.
It's romantic to think that a child raised in an unhealthy environment can overcome the odds and change his fate and blah blah fuckin' blah, but that usually does not happen and it's unreasonable to expect it to, the same way that it is unreasonable to expect to have a royal flush in a given poker hand.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
but it is for some people, and the people who can adopt and who adoption appeals to... should adopt
i mean, not everyone has the chops to be a doctor or a plumber or whatever, but those are necessary callings and the people who can do it and want to do itshould do it, because someone ought to and it might as well be the people to whom it is best suited
so, i figure, given my views on the subject
it'd be almost wrong of me not to adopt at some point.
but then you'd have to get angry at all the super smart people that don't want to become doctors or lawyers and etc
if a dude with a 200 IQ wanted to be a garbageman because that's what he loved, you'd fault him for not doing what you think he should be doing
I mean i agree with adoption and everything but it's hard to say you look down on people for wanting their on kid rather than adopting one
whoa hey now rane what are you doing i am okay with you putting some things in my mouth but one of those things is not words
i am not saying those things you say that i am saying
i am bad at reading tonight, my apologies
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
although I also used to grab my dick and strum it like a guitar
so
oh no am i a broken
no children being curious about sex and body parts at puberty is normal
whoops there i go with that word again
dude i don;t know about you but when i started puberty i was like
oh god what the fuck is all this now
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited February 2010
I have a biological son. When he was conceived I was 22, picture of fitness in the 101st Airborne. Worst problem I had was daydreaming too much. His mother was an educated, practical and caring woman of voluptuous physique.
I haven't had a hand in raising him, only periodic phone calls a a couple of holiday visits, in six years. Still, he is the best boy I could have hoped for and ok my eyes a tearing up
Christina Aguilera is most definitely for the children
because children like playing in the dirt
and Christina sings about being Dirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty
Dudes I am pretty sure Xtina made a lot of her money off people under 18.
yeah so do horror movies and tobacco manufacturers
"for" != "consumed by"
I can't think of a single horror movie I've ever seen that I wasn't prepared for by the age of 12.
you're fucked up in the head, though
Are you imposing an objective standard for normalcy?
the inexistence of a singular person who embodies what may be considered normal does not preclude the existence of behaviors or circumstances that may be considered abnormal
What criteria do establish abnormality?
significant deviation from a generally-accepted standard or average, i s'pose
Wouldn't that largely be culturally relative?
not in terms of physical and mental (which is also physical but i'm putting it here for clarity's sake) development that have biological standards accepted by the medical community
If a self-sufficient farmer living outside of society is autistic, isn't the appreciation of his condition as deviant only relevant to the purview of the observing culture?
Autism is a disease that primarily affects social interactions so I'm sure it wouldn't cause much harm to a lone man who survives on his own (through performing repetitive behaviors, no less) but that doesn't mean that autism isn't a disorder. Yeah, if you were an alien coming to earth and observing only this man you probably wouldn't see that it affected him much, but he's biologically impaired.
What about a 6'6" Norwegian having to duck through doorways in southeast Asia?
Does he only look weird because he's different than everyone around him? Well, sure.
What about an 11 year old with enough experiential reasoning to interpret the actions in porn and the support of a sex-positive culture to obviate repression mechanisms?
The inability of an 11 year old to comprehend sexuality isn't because of any "repression mechanisms", it's simply beyond their upper limit of comprehension at that age because he's biologically not ready to understand sexuality. I'm sure he could have the actions performed by the copulating parties explained to him, but he wouldn't understand the motivation or context. Why the hell would an 11 year old be watching porn anyways? Why would sexuality be relevant to him at a pre-sexual stage and why would his exposure to this possibly be a healthy action?
Repression mechanisms relate to the potential for damage you mentioned earlier. Also, some folks hit puberty way before 11, and some folks develop sexual awareness before puberty. If either one of these people were exposed to porn in a sex-positive society, what harm arises?
Even if the autistic farmer is biologically different, doesn't the distinction of impairment only arise from an interaction with or contrast to a dissimilar society? Isn't his disorder relative to someone else's culture, not his own?
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited February 2010
weaver why don't you get to have your time with your son?
man what would the world be like if a judge could hand sterilisation down as a sentence
like not for just anyone who commits a crime
but the real problem cases who just can't seem to stay out of shit or the ones you read about in the news who accidentally (or even purposefully) kill their kids or do crazy shit to them
it'd be too late for the kids they fucked over but at least they ain't doing that shit to no more kids
I could totally see this kind of sentence being handled about as badly as the Sex Offender Registry thing.
And that's really the only thing I see wrong with it.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
man what would the world be like if a judge could hand sterilisation down as a sentence
like not for just anyone who commits a crime
but the real problem cases who just can't seem to stay out of shit or the ones you read about in the news who accidentally (or even purposefully) kill their kids or do crazy shit to them
it'd be too late for the kids they fucked over but at least they ain't doing that shit to no more kids
"Can't seem to stay out of shit" would be super dodgy around here, given the way the legal system in Atlanta treats the lower class, and plenty of people go find someone else's kid to fuck over, so...
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Why sterilize someone when you can just kill them? I'm thinking about what the suicide rate would be among a group of people who had been forcibly sterilized, and I can't imagine it being anything less than fuckin' enormous.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Why sterilize someone when you can just kill them? I'm thinking about what the suicide rate would be among a group of people who had been forcibly sterilized, and I can't imagine it being anything less than fuckin' enormous.
anny is arguing that society should fit the individual instead of the individual working itself into society because it's his thing
I'm not arguing an obligation, just that the relationship is substantial in terms of defining mental health, i.e. that both the formation and perception of cultural harm is relative.
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
edited February 2010
I had a job offer with the TSA but I thought I'd put that on hold to go through addiction treatment with the VA
Why sterilize someone when you can just kill them? I'm thinking about what the suicide rate would be among a group of people who had been forcibly sterilized, and I can't imagine it being anything less than fuckin' enormous.
umaro remember when i was like "what're you, 15?" when you were expressing a massively ignorant worldview that is commonplace amongst shit-for-brains adolescents?
you're doing it again
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
anny is arguing that society should fit the individual instead of the individual working itself into society because it's his thing
I'm not arguing an obligation, just that the relationship is substantial in terms of defining mental health, i.e. that both the formation and perception of cultural harm is relative.
all varying human conditions are perceptive to both the viewer and the subject yes this is not new stuff
Posts
children absolutely take after their parents like that
children of addicts, abusers, criminals, etc generally follow in their footsteps
frankly the worst thing in the world is idiots and assholes having kids
if tweakers quit having kids, after a generation we wouldn't have to lock our doors at night
the kids watch their parents grow up that way, the way they look at life in general is heavily influenced based on what their parents do to themselves and whatnot
parental habits become child habits simply because the vast majority of us all learn through example
scary, really
Not that it has any bearing on my question, but just walk randomly through Arkansas until you find a nice piece of land that nobody has laid eyes on from an altitude of less than half a mile in the last four decades.
need a quick 5 thou?
vascectomy
of course we'd have to fix it so they're unreversible and iron out all the buyer's remorse-like legal problems we might face
but i could support this program
i might adopt at some point in the future.
the fiancee and i have discussed it, it's something that is possible
and i like that idea, adoption
i figure, there's lots of kids who are already existent and could use a loving home and parents and so on
i know people who have been orphans and foster kids and the foster system tries its best but is largely terrible
so, the idea of sparing even 1 kid from that and giving them a better alternative is totally an appealing option for some future point in my life
this seems a much better alternative for me than begetting my own horrible mutant children and adding to the overall number of global mouths to the feed
why add more kids when there's kids right there who could use a family
like not for just anyone who commits a crime
but the real problem cases who just can't seem to stay out of shit or the ones you read about in the news who accidentally (or even purposefully) kill their kids or do crazy shit to them
it'd be too late for the kids they fucked over but at least they ain't doing that shit to no more kids
I've been in those conditions, I have the skill to do it, I just know that it's a stupid idea
you should be able to sentence him to not be able to reproduce
adoption isn't for everyone
even for people who want to be parents
but it is for some people, and the people who can adopt and who adoption appeals to... should adopt
i mean, not everyone has the chops to be a doctor or a plumber or whatever, but those are necessary callings and the people who can do it and want to do it should do it, because someone ought to and it might as well be the people to whom it is best suited
so, i figure, given my views on the subject
it'd be almost wrong of me not to adopt at some point.
Viv you know Depo-Provera?
the birth control?
injected into men it;s a chemical castration
edit: has has been used in court-ordered chemical castration
yyyyyyyyep
not to rain on the parade of folks here but paying people to get sterilized is a bad idea and has social repercussions you might not quite understand
free sterilizations, however, are a good idea and i support those
worked great for me!
but then you'd have to get angry at all the super smart people that don't want to become doctors or lawyers and etc
if a dude with a 200 IQ wanted to be a garbageman because that's what he loved, you'd fault him for not doing what you think he should be doing
I mean i agree with adoption and everything but it's hard to say you look down on people for wanting their on kid rather than adopting one
Autism is a disease that primarily affects social interactions so I'm sure it wouldn't cause much harm to a lone man who survives on his own (through performing repetitive behaviors, no less) but that doesn't mean that autism isn't a disorder. Yeah, if you were an alien coming to earth and observing only this man you probably wouldn't see that it affected him much, but he's biologically impaired.
Does he only look weird because he's different than everyone around him? Well, sure.
The inability of an 11 year old to comprehend sexuality isn't because of any "repression mechanisms", it's simply beyond their upper limit of comprehension at that age because he's biologically not ready to understand sexuality. I'm sure he could have the actions performed by the copulating parties explained to him, but he wouldn't understand the motivation or context. Why the hell would an 11 year old be watching porn anyways? Why would sexuality be relevant to him at a pre-sexual stage and why would his exposure to this possibly be a healthy action?
i did not think of that, and maybe i would have if i was taking this thread seriously
hmm
i guess we're talking about kids and stuff?
i vividly remember watching porn well before i left england
and i left england when i was 10
whoa hey now rane what are you doing i am okay with you putting some things in my mouth but one of those things is not words
i am not saying those things you say that i am saying
so
oh no am i a broken
Yeah, the people who instantly scream "nazi" at the first mention of genetics in a conversation like this conveniently fail to realize that parents provide both genes and environment.
It's romantic to think that a child raised in an unhealthy environment can overcome the odds and change his fate and blah blah fuckin' blah, but that usually does not happen and it's unreasonable to expect it to, the same way that it is unreasonable to expect to have a royal flush in a given poker hand.
i am bad at reading tonight, my apologies
cool story bro
no children being curious about sex and body parts at puberty is normal
whoops there i go with that word again
good night (for real this time)
oh god what the fuck is all this now
I haven't had a hand in raising him, only periodic phone calls a a couple of holiday visits, in six years. Still, he is the best boy I could have hoped for and ok my eyes a tearing up
edit: he was born August 2001 he's 8 now
Even if the autistic farmer is biologically different, doesn't the distinction of impairment only arise from an interaction with or contrast to a dissimilar society? Isn't his disorder relative to someone else's culture, not his own?
I could totally see this kind of sentence being handled about as badly as the Sex Offender Registry thing.
And that's really the only thing I see wrong with it.
distance + money
also kind of in the worst part of my mid-life crisis right now (not joking shit is grim)
save up and buy a jet ski
"Can't seem to stay out of shit" would be super dodgy around here, given the way the legal system in Atlanta treats the lower class, and plenty of people go find someone else's kid to fuck over, so...
I haven't had a job since last March
my market crashed up north, marriage crashed and now in south texas currently trying to get a job at a packaging plant
shit be grim
shut up
I'm not arguing an obligation, just that the relationship is substantial in terms of defining mental health, i.e. that both the formation and perception of cultural harm is relative.
"Yeah we'll see you in April"
well fuck I shoulda took that job
umaro remember when i was like "what're you, 15?" when you were expressing a massively ignorant worldview that is commonplace amongst shit-for-brains adolescents?
you're doing it again
all varying human conditions are perceptive to both the viewer and the subject yes this is not new stuff