I like how the first two of Cat's posts are stealth "Americans are stupid hurr". Your country was founded by criminals, where do you get off being so smug?
I would rather a system set up that allowed drivers to report drivers who are acting like total assholes (which includes those driving unsafely). If we could then have police keep an eye on for these cars and punish accordingly, that would be a dream.
In the United States, this already exists. All you have to do is call 911 and give the dispatcher a description of what the driver is doing and the car's plate, and a notification will go out to any squad cars or highway patrol in the area. I've had to do this a few times back when I was working nights and ended up driving home right after the bars close and being behind someone who was weaving between lanes.
The three minutes it takes you to do this could save someone's life, so please don't ever hesitate.
RFID chips in road signs are a fucking terrible idea. Seriously. I don't want my ability to react to an emergency (or potential emergency) situation, or even the ability to gun it to pass someone in my small-engined car being limited because there just so happens to be a 55MPH sign within 500 feet of this particular section of the highway.
Arguing for RFID interaction with cars just seems to boil down to "Bad drivers are bad, so we need to baby them even moreso than we already do instead of actually teaching them how to be good drivers" to me.
I am absolutely fine with raising the eligibility requirements for a Driver's License though. The Graduated Licensing we already have in the US is a step in the right direction I guess.
80 km/h is such a frankly offensive nanny-state speed limit I don't even know where to start addressing it. It's too slow for modern cars. It's too slow for modern roads. It would make long distance travel take 20-30% longer.
Long distance travel is an issue, yes. Rural kids are especially disadvantaged by a flat rate like that.
So, do you think that the speed sign RFID thing is a good idea, or that appropriate local rates could be programmed into cars?
I like how the first two of Cat's posts are stealth "Americans are stupid hurr". Your country was founded by criminals, where do you get off being so smug?
pfffft, it was founded by prison guards, merchants, and land-thieves on the backs of criminals. And learn to take a joke.
Good point about 911 though, we have similar systems here. My flatmate's called it a few times, in response to trucks behaving erratically. I do kind of agree with the earlier comment about it being a potential distraction, though. Its hard to note some asshole's numberplate when he's tailgating you and gesticulating wildly...
80 km/h is such a frankly offensive nanny-state speed limit I don't even know where to start addressing it. It's too slow for modern cars. It's too slow for modern roads. It would make long distance travel take 20-30% longer.
I agree that 80km/h is a bit low, but how would you feel about 90 or 100km/hr limits imposed mechanically on cars?
Pure anecdote, but around here the "average" speed on the highway is 74 mph (just under the "5 mph over" that could get you a ticket). I almost always drive 77 mph on my commute to work, except for the popular speed traps where I drop to 74 mph just long enough to make sure there's no cop.
Obviously I don't "need" to drive 77 mph -- my commute is just shy of 45 miles, so I'm only shaving 3 minutes off by bumping from 70 mph to 77 mph (112 kph to 123 kph). I can say for sure that 77 mph doesn't feel "fast" to me, though -- for every person I pass that's actually driving 70, there are just as many people whizzing past me at 85 (136 kph).
Vrtra Theory on
Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
I would rather a system set up that allowed drivers to report drivers who are acting like total assholes (which includes those driving unsafely). If we could then have police keep an eye on for these cars and punish accordingly, that would be a dream.
In the United States, this already exists. All you have to do is call 911 and give the dispatcher a description of what the driver is doing and the car's plate, and a notification will go out to any squad cars or highway patrol in the area. I've had to do this a few times back when I was working nights and ended up driving home right after the bars close and being behind someone who was weaving between lanes.
The three minutes it takes you to do this could save someone's life, so please don't ever hesitate.
Was not aware of this, thanks. Don't think it'll do much good in Miami when I've seen cops run red lights by just throwing their lights on in the middle of the intersection and turning them off once they're through...
God I hate Miami. Its a disgusting shit hole of a city.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
The biggest difficulty in changing this type of stuff in America is that he car culture is so ingrained into our collective identity that you're fighting a massive uphill battle. It's almost a case of "this is what it is because this is what it was".
Yeah, its hard when there's no substantial public transport - and, I hear, not even footpaths in a lot of urban areas in the US, t/f?
Your population is also a lot more spread out than ours, we mostly huddle in a few cities on the coast, hoping for rain.
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
I wish that were true here, but the local cops see such flows of traffic as a long succession of dollar signs >_<
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Is a footpath a sidewalk (paved area on the side of the road for pedestrians)? Major cities have them, mostly in down town areas. The part of town I grew up in did not have them.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
I like how the first two of Cat's posts are stealth "Americans are stupid hurr". Your country was founded by criminals, where do you get off being so smug?
pfffft, it was founded by prison guards, merchants, and land-thieves on the backs of criminals. And learn to take a joke.
Good point about 911 though, we have similar systems here. My flatmate's called it a few times, in response to trucks behaving erratically. I do kind of agree with the earlier comment about it being a potential distraction, though. Its hard to note some asshole's numberplate when he's tailgating you and gesticulating wildly...
Let him pass you and read off his back one.
Worst case scenario is you have a description of the car and (potentially) the driver, and that's better than nothing.
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Yea, just don't be the fastest.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Anecdote anecdote etc but I was riding with a friend when he got a ticket for doing 70MPH in a 55 to stay with the flow of traffic. When he asked the policeman why he was singled out when the entire group of cars was speeding he was told simply "Luck of the draw".
It might have been a quota ticket or the cop might have just felt like putting it down, but you can still get a ticket if you're speeding to stay with the flow of traffic.
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Yea, just don't be the fastest.
Fun fact: Cops can and will still pull you over for breaking the speed limit following the flow of traffic.
Protip: Go the speed limit.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
As long as you aren't driving recklessly, breaking the speed limit is not a moral issue. Your #1 responsibility as a driver is to drive in a way that is safe for you and the other people on the road.
Is a footpath a sidewalk (paved area on the side of the road for pedestrians)? Major cities have them, mostly in down town areas. The part of town I grew up in did not have them.
Sounds about right. Its pretty abnormal here for anywhere to lack a footpath, even if its just a wide strip of grass in front of houses. And dedicated bikeways are certainly a rarity both here and in the US.
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
In my area, the largest reason for accidents among teenagers is underage drinking.
A system like Australia's driving system would be pretty detrimental to rural communities, I'd think too. I think it's also linked to the drinking age. Which, as I understand it, is much lower in Europe and Australia. Coincidence?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Anecdote anecdote etc but I was riding with a friend when he got a ticket for doing 70MPH in a 55 to stay with the flow of traffic. When he asked the policeman why he was singled out when the entire group of cars was speeding he was told simply "Luck of the draw".
It might have been a quota ticket or the cop might have just felt like putting it down, but you can still get a ticket if you're speeding to stay with the flow of traffic.
Its probably somewhat fair, because follow-the-flow can technically lead to everyone driving at definitely-unsafe speeds. Someone's got to pull the plug.
So as a counter to my own OP, we've seen some pretty decent falls in the recent fatality rate just by having more visible police on the road, and more 'hidden' radar traps. Supervision does seem to help, but there are issues with resourcing - again, especially in rural areas.
Is a footpath a sidewalk (paved area on the side of the road for pedestrians)? Major cities have them, mostly in down town areas. The part of town I grew up in did not have them.
Sounds about right. Its pretty abnormal here for anywhere to lack a footpath, even if its just a wide strip of grass in front of houses. And dedicated bikeways are certainly a rarity both here and in the US.
Hah, bikes in Miami get like, 6 inches of road, and this is a "bike friendly" city. Where I grew up the "bike lane" was about an inch.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Yea, just don't be the fastest.
Fun fact: Cops can and will still pull you over for breaking the speed limit following the flow of traffic.
Protip: Go the speed limit.
Show up to your court date. The cop probably won't.
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
I'm not sure there's anything you can really do to reduce accidents among teens besides not letting them drive until they're 20 :P.
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
This is absolutely true. The worst drivers I've been around here are 30something Gen-Xers, especially tradesmen in utes - but most locals are shitty drivers, because its only in the last 15-20 years that there were any standards at all. I have older workmates who brag about scoring their license by a) making it to the local police station without killing anyone and b) bringing beer. This is not cool, but its also not an argument to relax standards. its an argument to maintain them until these people are in nursing homes.
Am I the only guy that feels like an asshole for obeying the speed limit?
I mean people ride my bumper constantly if they can't get around.
I go the max allowed by law but even cops pass me like I'm standin' still.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Yea, just don't be the fastest.
Fun fact: Cops can and will still pull you over for breaking the speed limit following the flow of traffic.
Protip: Go the speed limit.
Show up to your court date. The cop probably won't.
They get paid to be there...
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
As long as you aren't driving recklessly, breaking the speed limit is not a moral issue. Your #1 responsibility as a driver is to drive in a way that is safe for you and the other people on the road.
Yeah but see I thought going the speed limit was driving safely.
I mean you guys make it sound like I'm the bad guy for getting rear-ended by some asshole doing 80 in a 65.
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
In my area, the largest reason for accidents among teenagers is underage drinking.
A system like Australia's driving system would be pretty detrimental to rural communities, I'd think too. I think it's also linked to the drinking age. Which, as I understand it, is much lower in Europe and Australia. Coincidence?
Drinking and the number of other teenagers in the car are the #2 and #3 correlates, IIRC, and presumably there's some overlap. Drinking culture/accident rates and age of legal drinking don't actually correlate well, though. Europeans don't tend to binge drink the way brits, aussies, and USians do.
As long as you aren't driving recklessly, breaking the speed limit is not a moral issue. Your #1 responsibility as a driver is to drive in a way that is safe for you and the other people on the road.
Yeah but see I thought going the speed limit was driving safely.
I mean you guys make it sound like I'm the bad guy for getting rear-ended by some asshole doing 80 in a 65.
This is a common theme with a few people here. However, among sane people, as long as you're not going 30 in that 65 or causing him to be a dick about it, it is not a widely accepted thing.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I've had to floor my car to get out of a dangerous situation and I'd hate for someone to not be able to do that
This. Sometimes, even if it's very rarely, we need to go fast.
Plus, I hate the idea of something or someone besides me being in control of my vehicle.
It only sets the max speed, its not like total computer control. Which I would also be uncomfortable with. As a couple of us have noted, a short-term emergency override would be sensible.
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
In my area, the largest reason for accidents among teenagers is underage drinking.
A system like Australia's driving system would be pretty detrimental to rural communities, I'd think too. I think it's also linked to the drinking age. Which, as I understand it, is much lower in Europe and Australia. Coincidence?
Drinking and the number of other teenagers in the car are the #2 and #3 correlates, IIRC, and presumably there's some overlap. Drinking culture/accident rates and age of legal drinking don't actually correlate well, though. Europeans don't tend to binge drink the way brits, aussies, and USians do.
Interesting, I think in my area the accident rates when alcohol is not involved is actually on par with adults (it's slightly higher because of experience with hitting things like deer, or fender benders during rush hour) The interesting thing is that somewhere around 45-50, the accident rates for adults goes up. I don't have numbers to back that up, but I remember reading it in our local paper.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
But yeah anyway, lets be sure to remember that the thread is about reducing lethal accidents among teenagers, not reducing the overall rate of accidents of any severity. I really don't give a damn about fender benders.
I'm not sure there's anything you can really do to reduce accidents among teens besides not letting them drive until they're 20 :P.
This is not correct, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to start the thread. I'd like to think there's a balance between letting young people drive and protecting them from themselves. Also, I'm not interested in the 'teenagers are retards lock them up' narrative. Having worse reaction times and poorer impulse control doesn't make them worthless, just deserving of extra attention.
Even if you let them drive at 20, they'll make the same mistakes any 16 year old would when they first started driving. Moving the age around really doesn't change much. From what I've seen anyways.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Interesting, I think in my area the accident rates when alcohol is not involved is actually on par with adults (it's slightly higher because of experience with hitting things like deer, or fender benders during rush hour) The interesting thing is that somewhere around 45-50, the accident rates for adults goes up. I don't have numbers to back that up, but I remember reading it in our local paper.
There's probably something to it - a combo of a lifetime of poor habits, driving older, crappier cars, and losing one's reflexes and eyesight with age, perhaps.
Even if you let them drive at 20, they'll make the same mistakes any 16 year old would when they first started driving. Moving the age around really doesn't change much. From what I've seen anyways.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I tried learning to drive as a teenager and again at about 21, and I was waaaaay too twitchy and anxious. I left it until I was 25, and at that point I picked it up pretty well, and I'm now confident and not a retard on the roads.
Interesting, I think in my area the accident rates when alcohol is not involved is actually on par with adults (it's slightly higher because of experience with hitting things like deer, or fender benders during rush hour) The interesting thing is that somewhere around 45-50, the accident rates for adults goes up. I don't have numbers to back that up, but I remember reading it in our local paper.
There's probably something to it - a combo of a lifetime of poor habits, driving older, crappier cars, and losing one's reflexes and eyesight with age, perhaps.
Or cashing in an IRA for a new corvette is what I thought when I read it.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
As long as you aren't driving recklessly, breaking the speed limit is not a moral issue. Your #1 responsibility as a driver is to drive in a way that is safe for you and the other people on the road.
Yeah but see I thought going the speed limit was driving safely.
I mean you guys make it sound like I'm the bad guy for getting rear-ended by some asshole doing 80 in a 65.
This is a common theme with a few people here. However, among sane people, as long as you're not going 30 in that 65 or causing him to be a dick about it, it is not a widely accepted thing.
Going the speed limit is not driving safely. Going with the flow of traffic is. You can simply reverse the position to understand this. If everyone is driving 30, and you're doing the speed limit of 65, you're not driving safely.
Posts
In the United States, this already exists. All you have to do is call 911 and give the dispatcher a description of what the driver is doing and the car's plate, and a notification will go out to any squad cars or highway patrol in the area. I've had to do this a few times back when I was working nights and ended up driving home right after the bars close and being behind someone who was weaving between lanes.
The three minutes it takes you to do this could save someone's life, so please don't ever hesitate.
RFID chips in road signs are a fucking terrible idea. Seriously. I don't want my ability to react to an emergency (or potential emergency) situation, or even the ability to gun it to pass someone in my small-engined car being limited because there just so happens to be a 55MPH sign within 500 feet of this particular section of the highway.
Arguing for RFID interaction with cars just seems to boil down to "Bad drivers are bad, so we need to baby them even moreso than we already do instead of actually teaching them how to be good drivers" to me.
I am absolutely fine with raising the eligibility requirements for a Driver's License though. The Graduated Licensing we already have in the US is a step in the right direction I guess.
Long distance travel is an issue, yes. Rural kids are especially disadvantaged by a flat rate like that.
So, do you think that the speed sign RFID thing is a good idea, or that appropriate local rates could be programmed into cars?
pfffft, it was founded by prison guards, merchants, and land-thieves on the backs of criminals. And learn to take a joke.
Good point about 911 though, we have similar systems here. My flatmate's called it a few times, in response to trucks behaving erratically. I do kind of agree with the earlier comment about it being a potential distraction, though. Its hard to note some asshole's numberplate when he's tailgating you and gesticulating wildly...
I agree that 80km/h is a bit low, but how would you feel about 90 or 100km/hr limits imposed mechanically on cars?
Obviously I don't "need" to drive 77 mph -- my commute is just shy of 45 miles, so I'm only shaving 3 minutes off by bumping from 70 mph to 77 mph (112 kph to 123 kph). I can say for sure that 77 mph doesn't feel "fast" to me, though -- for every person I pass that's actually driving 70, there are just as many people whizzing past me at 85 (136 kph).
God I hate Miami. Its a disgusting shit hole of a city.
If the flow of traffic is going above the posted speed limit, you need to go with the flow of traffic so you're not adding danger to everyone's drive. The cops aren't going to go after you unless you're going much faster than the flow of traffic (or if you're going fast with no one around).
On the highways in/around Atlanta the posted limit is 55 MPH, but if you're not going 70 MPH in light traffic you're going to get your bumper rammed into your back seat.
Yeah, its hard when there's no substantial public transport - and, I hear, not even footpaths in a lot of urban areas in the US, t/f?
Your population is also a lot more spread out than ours, we mostly huddle in a few cities on the coast, hoping for rain.
I wish that were true here, but the local cops see such flows of traffic as a long succession of dollar signs >_<
So basically it's ok for me to break the law as long as everyone else is breaking it too.
Good to know.
Let him pass you and read off his back one.
Worst case scenario is you have a description of the car and (potentially) the driver, and that's better than nothing.
Yea, just don't be the fastest.
Anecdote anecdote etc but I was riding with a friend when he got a ticket for doing 70MPH in a 55 to stay with the flow of traffic. When he asked the policeman why he was singled out when the entire group of cars was speeding he was told simply "Luck of the draw".
It might have been a quota ticket or the cop might have just felt like putting it down, but you can still get a ticket if you're speeding to stay with the flow of traffic.
Fun fact: Cops can and will still pull you over for breaking the speed limit following the flow of traffic.
Protip: Go the speed limit.
As long as you aren't driving recklessly, breaking the speed limit is not a moral issue. Your #1 responsibility as a driver is to drive in a way that is safe for you and the other people on the road.
Sounds about right. Its pretty abnormal here for anywhere to lack a footpath, even if its just a wide strip of grass in front of houses. And dedicated bikeways are certainly a rarity both here and in the US.
No matter the driving education you have, you're going to be experienced and changed by those who drive around you. You can't just change the teens, you need to change the community.
In my area, the largest reason for accidents among teenagers is underage drinking.
A system like Australia's driving system would be pretty detrimental to rural communities, I'd think too. I think it's also linked to the drinking age. Which, as I understand it, is much lower in Europe and Australia. Coincidence?
Its probably somewhat fair, because follow-the-flow can technically lead to everyone driving at definitely-unsafe speeds. Someone's got to pull the plug.
So as a counter to my own OP, we've seen some pretty decent falls in the recent fatality rate just by having more visible police on the road, and more 'hidden' radar traps. Supervision does seem to help, but there are issues with resourcing - again, especially in rural areas.
Hah, bikes in Miami get like, 6 inches of road, and this is a "bike friendly" city. Where I grew up the "bike lane" was about an inch.
I'm not sure there's anything you can really do to reduce accidents among teens besides not letting them drive until they're 20 :P.
This doesn't do anything, maybe you get it reduced, probably not. You're still out $50 + $200 in court fees (or more).
This is absolutely true. The worst drivers I've been around here are 30something Gen-Xers, especially tradesmen in utes - but most locals are shitty drivers, because its only in the last 15-20 years that there were any standards at all. I have older workmates who brag about scoring their license by a) making it to the local police station without killing anyone and b) bringing beer. This is not cool, but its also not an argument to relax standards. its an argument to maintain them until these people are in nursing homes.
Yeah but see I thought going the speed limit was driving safely.
I mean you guys make it sound like I'm the bad guy for getting rear-ended by some asshole doing 80 in a 65.
This. Sometimes, even if it's very rarely, we need to go fast.
Plus, I hate the idea of something or someone besides me being in control of my vehicle.
Drinking and the number of other teenagers in the car are the #2 and #3 correlates, IIRC, and presumably there's some overlap. Drinking culture/accident rates and age of legal drinking don't actually correlate well, though. Europeans don't tend to binge drink the way brits, aussies, and USians do.
This is a common theme with a few people here. However, among sane people, as long as you're not going 30 in that 65 or causing him to be a dick about it, it is not a widely accepted thing.
It only sets the max speed, its not like total computer control. Which I would also be uncomfortable with. As a couple of us have noted, a short-term emergency override would be sensible.
Interesting, I think in my area the accident rates when alcohol is not involved is actually on par with adults (it's slightly higher because of experience with hitting things like deer, or fender benders during rush hour) The interesting thing is that somewhere around 45-50, the accident rates for adults goes up. I don't have numbers to back that up, but I remember reading it in our local paper.
This is not correct, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to start the thread. I'd like to think there's a balance between letting young people drive and protecting them from themselves. Also, I'm not interested in the 'teenagers are retards lock them up' narrative. Having worse reaction times and poorer impulse control doesn't make them worthless, just deserving of extra attention.
There's probably something to it - a combo of a lifetime of poor habits, driving older, crappier cars, and losing one's reflexes and eyesight with age, perhaps.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I tried learning to drive as a teenager and again at about 21, and I was waaaaay too twitchy and anxious. I left it until I was 25, and at that point I picked it up pretty well, and I'm now confident and not a retard on the roads.
Just don't ask me about carparks.
Or cashing in an IRA for a new corvette is what I thought when I read it.
Going the speed limit is not driving safely. Going with the flow of traffic is. You can simply reverse the position to understand this. If everyone is driving 30, and you're doing the speed limit of 65, you're not driving safely.