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No (Solicitation) Means No. Obey the sign or pay the fine?
joshofalltrades
Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
Class TraitorSmoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
From the Proselytizing thread:
Well, when I was working for a marketing company for a short period of time, I was instructed to ignore those signs by my superiors. Many times I was forced to knock on a door with a clear "NO SOLICITORS" sign if I wanted to keep my job. Did it work sometimes? Yes, actually. I still felt like a tool for doing it.
While the other thread is about if it's okay to band together as a community to oust annoyances like the OP's video shows, this one is regarding whether or not we should actually make going against those signs unlawful.
My gut instinct here is to say yes. The person who posted that sign clearly does not wish to be disturbed by marketers, salesmen or zealots. As of now there is no point in posting those signs; even when we had them on my old house, we were still accosted. Many times, when I pointed the sign out and started to shut the door, I was typically made to feel like I was the dickcheese for not listening to their spiel.
But if there were some fucking consequences for ignoring a posted sign, salesmonsters might actually take note of them and follow the wishes of the property owner. I'm still thinking about logistics, how to enforce and what the fines would look like, but right now I'd support a measure like this.
Tell me what you think about this idea.
From the missionaries I talked with, if they saw "NO SOLICITORS" sign they didn't knock at that door and moved on.
Well, when I was working for a marketing company for a short period of time, I was instructed to ignore those signs by my superiors. Many times I was forced to knock on a door with a clear "NO SOLICITORS" sign if I wanted to keep my job. Did it work sometimes? Yes, actually. I still felt like a tool for doing it.
While the other thread is about if it's okay to band together as a community to oust annoyances like the OP's video shows, this one is regarding whether or not we should actually make going against those signs unlawful.
My gut instinct here is to say yes. The person who posted that sign clearly does not wish to be disturbed by marketers, salesmen or zealots. As of now there is no point in posting those signs; even when we had them on my old house, we were still accosted. Many times, when I pointed the sign out and started to shut the door, I was typically made to feel like I was the dickcheese for not listening to their spiel.
But if there were some fucking consequences for ignoring a posted sign, salesmonsters might actually take note of them and follow the wishes of the property owner. I'm still thinking about logistics, how to enforce and what the fines would look like, but right now I'd support a measure like this.
Tell me what you think about this idea.
joshofalltrades on
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Or open the door and as soon as they start to talk, close the door.
Were you soliciting signatures?
Nope, just asking people who they were voting for, reminding them of election dates, or helping them register to vote.
I don't keep a gun in my house and I don't want to be interrupted for a sales pitch, period. Even for 2 seconds of my life. That's why I posted a sign.
You know, you could just get the license plate number of the person if they're driving a car, or call the cops if they are on foot and won't be able to get far. The first dozen people who get fined for breaking a law like this would set a nice precedent and I imagine cops wouldn't need to be called for this sort of thing very often after they learn what happens.
A sign that says, "No Solicitors, unless you are willing to pay $1000 to have me listen to you".
That way, I can just point to the sign. If they produce $1000, then I'll be happy to listen to them for a few minutes. If not, I'm shutting the door and GTFO.
Anyway, I have a hard time caring about this. If it's really such a bother for you, maybe you should craft a sign that more explicitly details your wishes. Or just get a no trespassing/beware of dog sign. That will be much more effective at keeping people off your doorstep.
Or you could do what I do: if you don't feel like talking to the person, don't answer the door.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
But yes, things like this are why you have to learn to only give common courtesy to those who give it back. When someone sells me something on the phone or at the door, I say, 'I don't buy things over the phone or from the door', and that's that.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Who says you can't? They're on your property, aren't they? :P
But yes, people who see a sign that explicitly states I don't wish to be bothered and then decide that my wishes don't matter and they are going to bother me regardless make me angry
he must not have noticed the sign.
My step-dad did this so he could see who was at the door from his office without getting up. He was self-employed, so it was important to distinguish between a client come to pick up some work and somebody who would just waste his time. I thought it was the neatest thing when I was a kid.
We somehow had a guy from Comcast get into our building and was knocking on all the doors. He knocks on mine, I open it and see the Xfinity badge, and say "Not interested" and shut the door before he even got a word out. He looked a bit affronted for a second as I closed. But considering we had and then canceled Comcast internet, he was about the last person I wanted soliciting me.
Soliciting means asking a person for something of value for the benefit of the solicitor. That is not what these missionary kids are doing. Whether you like them or want to talk to them or not, they are taking time out of their day to selflessly do something they really think is important.
I have plenty of experience with this, and people cover the whole range. Some get a knock and will just point to their no soliciting sign and scream, and some are more than happy to chat as soon as they realize they aren't hearing a pitch for some encyclopedias. If what you really want is not to be disturbed, I suggest you get a sign that actually says "Please Do Not Disturb," or other such language.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I was told to solicit to addresses with "no solicitors" signs on a daily basis. Language isn't the issue. The only consequence to harassing people right now is maybe some yelling and "can't you read". Nothing would change if the wording was changed to, "Do Not Disturb" because there'd still be no consequences.
Hell, get a sign that says you work third shift or something.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Sounds like a good time to decide you want to hose down your doorstep.
Alternatively, get some dogs. Or bees. Or dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you.
Sure, those are practical ways to lower the number of people who ignore my wishes. They aren't arguments against the OP, though, which begs the question at this point, "Is there a reason ignoring a No Solicitors sign isn't against the law?" I've heard from some in this thread to just deal with it when it happens, but that doesn't make an argument against fining these geese.
Oh, and its not against the law because putting up a sign doesn't a law make.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
For example,
Solicitor's License
And I have seen people picked up for violating these requirements.
Because trespassing laws, especially in Texas, allow for the harm of individuals. I don't want people to start shooting solicitors in the face, I just want them to be afraid of getting fined.
Yet when there is a compelling interest in doing so, the government passes laws to do just this.
"To such a degree that a tort is being committed."
The commitment to the marketplace of ideas and the concept that there is some degree to which people should be able to advertise both give ground to the idea that it is not an unreasonable level of nuisance for you to have someone knock on your door once a day/week.
Yeah, I doubt it.
Anyway, there's still no reason you can't avail yourself of trespassing laws. Even in Texas one assumes that gunfire is not the only remedy available to a property owner.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Anyway, my community in San Jose, CA has an ordinance that requires all door-to-door solicitors to have a permit. I put a sign up on my door saying no solicitors, that the police requires a permit, and that I call 911. No one has bothered me since. Why is it illegal? Not just because it's a nuisance, but there were instances of crime where people posed as salesmen would rob, rape, and/or murder the person answering the door.
And missionaries are solicitors, too. What are they trying to get you to do? Join their cult? That helps them; they'll be trying to collect my money for the rest of my life. Give them money for a cause? How do I know that they're for real and that money is really going to someone who helps? If I wanted to give to charity, I would research it first and donate directly to an organization that I could trust to give the money to the people who need it. Agree to volunteer for something? I've never seen someone ask for that, but still the person at my door probably has less-than altruistic reasons for doing that.
Private nuisance torts includes things like 24/7 loud music, drilling, sanding, blasting, or equivalents.
Fuckers gotta learn manners some time.
Most people don't consider community support and charity solicitation to be rude, unless they disagree with the charity in question.
Free speech always stops at a property line. That's why the "free marketplace" can't open a both on my front lawn.