I had a couple mormons pester me while I was delivering mail. Like, they kept up even after I expressed to them that I was actively engaged in my job, delivering mail, not on a break, and tried to walk away from them.
Fuck those guys.
-edit-
Sniper, your opinions about racism are highly suspect given your stance in this thread. I've never seen you give a shit about racial equality in the past, so forgive me if I don't take your sudden deep concern with my apparent racism very seriously.
What? How is my opinion on racism subject, due to my stance of "Don't be a dick"?
There's like 20 white people, and 3 black people. You made a comment to the lines of "check out the black people harassing the gay people!" which is not at all an accurate statement to make about the situation. This seems deliberately racist to me. It may not be, which is fine! But if you call out those black people, to the exclusion of the white people in the way you did, it seems racist.
Are you saying my stance of "don't be an asshole to religious people" is what does it? My stance is not be a dick to anyone without serious cause. I try to be a nice person generally. Even to the people that knock on my door and tell me I'm going to hell. Inviting someone into your home, then harassing them, is still harassment.
I do not think that people who are being harassed should harass back either. Because that's immature.
And I am fully aware that I'm not a Mormon expert. Which I said, several times. But apparently people ignored that. My anecdotal experience with Mormons, is that they are nice kind people, and in no way bigoted or whatnot towards gay people or women. This may not be the stance of the official Mormon church, but that doesn't make an individual mormon a bad person, especially if they specifically disagree with those tenants.
If you're a republican for instance, and disagree with Obama, that doesn't make you not an American.
There is a lot of prejudice against religion on this forum. Even in this very thread. I'm not even religious myself.
There's a lot of prejudice against KKK members on this forum, too. And Nazis. And anti-abortion wingnuts.
I don't really think any of that counts as "prejudice," though. You're not pre-judging anyone; you're just judging them.
If you are assuming that someone who is a member of an organization is a believer and practitioner of every aspect of that organization, you are being prejudiced against that person.
This forum has a lot of "religion is inherently evil" thought in it, which is blatantly untrue. Religion has certainly been the cause and root of a lot of evil and problems, but you cannot necessarily ascribe this to all of it's members.
Seriously, I'm arguing "don't be a douche" and people are arguing that it's ok to be a douche.
You certainly can, and nothing I can do or say will stop you. It doesn't make you not a douche.
There's a lot of prejudice against KKK members on this forum, too. And Nazis. And anti-abortion wingnuts.
I don't really think any of that counts as "prejudice," though. You're not pre-judging anyone; you're just judging them.
If you are assuming that someone who is a member of an organization is a believer and practitioner of every aspect of that organization, you are being prejudiced against that person.
This forum has a lot of "religion is inherently evil" thought in it, which is blatantly untrue. Religion has certainly been the cause and root of a lot of evil and problems, but you cannot necessarily ascribe this to all of it's members.
Seriously, I'm arguing "don't be a douche" and people are arguing that it's ok to be a douche.
You certainly can, and nothing I can do or say will stop you. It doesn't make you not a douche.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
I really don't think treating these people like shit is being a douche; they deserve to be treated like shit. You are doing a good thing when you treat them like shit.
I'd wager that all faiths are fucking awful when it comes to rights and what's going on right now. But mormons don't really even rate compared to Islam and some fundie christians.
And you give money to a nation that uses it to do horrible, horrible things, guess you're to blame for that!
I vote and campaign against most of the horrible things that my country does, and I'm legally compelled to pay taxes. Mormons are not legally compelled to pay their church, nor are they legally compelled to be the driving force behind Prop 8 in California.
And while "Islam" is composed of many different strains of belief in many different countries that vary from incredibly hateful to entirely inclusive and open-minded, there is but one Mormon Church, which is a hateful, evil group.
And all faiths are not "fucking awful" when it comes to rights and what's going on right now; Unitarians and Episcopalians, for instance, are open-minded, incredibly inclusive faiths; Catholicism and Mormonism are not.
This depends largely on which Catholic church you go to. Just because the Pope said it doesn't mean the churches necessarily preach it.
This is important. People assume that because one claims the title "mormon" or "catholic" that that means several things about them. It does not. You cannot make those assumptions and be accurate. Another example: All jewish people don't eat pork. Clearly not true.
Assuming you just show up at your church for services, maybe talk to a few people, then leave, yes, maybe that can be the case; but if you give money, or help them raise money, you're acting in direct contravention to the beliefs you're claiming to espouse. And somehow I doubt that there are a lot of churchgoers who just show up for Sunday services then take off without contributing.
It's like if someone says they're a liberal Democrat, then gives $20,000 to Michelle Bachmann's re-election campaign; their words don't really matter, it's their actions that count, and their actions say that they're a hateful conservative Republican retard.
And again, Judaism is broken up into a bunch of sects; there is no Jewish "home office" that all of the Jewish synagogues give money to, unlike Catholicism and Mormonism.[/QUOTE]
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
I had a couple mormons pester me while I was delivering mail. Like, they kept up even after I expressed to them that I was actively engaged in my job, delivering mail, not on a break, and tried to walk away from them.
Fuck those guys.
-edit-
Sniper, your opinions about racism are highly suspect given your stance in this thread. I've never seen you give a shit about racial equality in the past, so forgive me if I don't take your sudden deep concern with my apparent racism very seriously.
What? How is my opinion on racism subject, due to my stance of "Don't be a dick"?
There's like 20 white people, and 3 black people. You made a comment to the lines of "check out the black people harassing the gay people!" which is not at all an accurate statement to make about the situation. This seems deliberately racist to me. It may not be, which is fine! But if you call out those black people, to the exclusion of the white people in the way you did, it seems racist.
Are you saying my stance of "don't be an asshole to religious people" is what does it? My stance is not be a dick to anyone without serious cause. I try to be a nice person generally. Even to the people that knock on my door and tell me I'm going to hell. Inviting someone into your home, then harassing them, is still harassment.
I do not think that people who are being harassed should harass back either. Because that's immature.
And I am fully aware that I'm not a Mormon expert. Which I said, several times. But apparently people ignored that. My anecdotal experience with Mormons, is that they are nice kind people, and in no way bigoted or whatnot towards gay people or women. This may not be the stance of the official Mormon church, but that doesn't make an individual mormon a bad person, especially if they specifically disagree with those tenants.
If you're a republican for instance, and disagree with Obama, that doesn't make you not an American.
There is a lot of prejudice against religion on this forum. Even in this very thread. I'm not even religious myself.
There's a lot of prejudice against KKK members on this forum, too. And Nazis. And anti-abortion wingnuts.
I don't really think any of that counts as "prejudice," though. You're not pre-judging anyone; you're just judging them.
If you are assuming that someone who is a member of an organization is a believer and practitioner of every aspect of that organization, you are being prejudiced against that person.
This forum has a lot of "religion is inherently evil" thought in it, which is blatantly untrue. Religion has certainly been the cause and root of a lot of evil and problems, but you cannot necessarily ascribe this to all of it's members.
Seriously, I'm arguing "don't be a douche" and people are arguing that it's ok to be a douche.
You certainly can, and nothing I can do or say will stop you. It doesn't make you not a douche.
If you are a member of an organization and advance that organization or work for that organization, you are advancing the organization and its goals.
Or maybe you don't know the first fucking thing about the LDS faith.
I thought this forum was all about separating the bad things in the faith and the bad people from the faith from the good people. Oh wait, that only applies to Muslims, gotta remember how this place works.
Mormons get excommunicated for not tithing. Therefore, they're giving money to a group that uses it to do horrible, hateful things.
There are no good people in that faith.
I'd wager that all faiths are fucking awful when it comes to rights and what's going on right now. But mormons don't really even rate compared to Islam and some fundie christians.
And you give money to a nation that uses it to do horrible, horrible things, guess you're to blame for that!
I vote and campaign against most of the horrible things that my country does, and I'm legally compelled to pay taxes. Mormons are not legally compelled to pay their church, nor are they legally compelled to be the driving force behind Prop 8 in California.
And while "Islam" is composed of many different strains of belief in many different countries that vary from incredibly hateful to entirely inclusive and open-minded, there is but one Mormon Church, which is a hateful, evil group.
And all faiths are not "fucking awful" when it comes to rights and what's going on right now; Unitarians and Episcopalians, for instance, are open-minded, incredibly inclusive faiths; Catholicism and Mormonism are not.
This depends largely on which Catholic church you go to. Just because the Pope said it doesn't mean the churches necessarily preach it.
This is important. People assume that because one claims the title "mormon" or "catholic" that that means several things about them. It does not. You cannot make those assumptions and be accurate. Another example: All jewish people don't eat pork. Clearly not true.
It's an organization which lets one person set official policy. That means he sets the official policy, and the whole organization is responsible for the official policies.
The Catholic church? One person does not set official policy in the catholic church. That is not how it works.
Or maybe you don't know the first fucking thing about the LDS faith.
I thought this forum was all about separating the bad things in the faith and the bad people from the faith from the good people. Oh wait, that only applies to Muslims, gotta remember how this place works.
I've never seen any of the crazy hatemonger style mormons, most are just nice people that are all a little too perfect.
I know lots of nice mormons too. Unfortunately they all tithe to the same shitty, backwards, hatemongering church that the not-so-nice mormons do.
Mormons can be good people obviously but their basic teachings are not all good things.
Mormonism teaches sexism in it's basic rules and the community is very unfriendly to anyone who wasn't born into it. During my short time as a Mormon I ran into the following difficulties
- Was pressured into giving up a lot of my free time for church events
- Was pressured into giving up college to go on my mission (being of missionary age when I first joined)
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
- Experienced church rumours first hand (mind this isn't a Mormon specific problem, any large group of people has this)
- Saw how women are basically treated as cattle. Nobody cares what they're doing with their future, but how about talking to this nice return eligible missionary and pumping out babies asap?
Edit: Keep in mind this isn't all of them but there were enough who promoted this behaviour (and those who didn't, didn't discourage it) to stick out.
Might've been our city community, I dunno.
They do have the politest missionaries I've come across though. One word and they excuse themselves.
There's a lot of prejudice against KKK members on this forum, too. And Nazis. And anti-abortion wingnuts.
I don't really think any of that counts as "prejudice," though. You're not pre-judging anyone; you're just judging them.
If you are assuming that someone who is a member of an organization is a believer and practitioner of every aspect of that organization, you are being prejudiced against that person.
This forum has a lot of "religion is inherently evil" thought in it, which is blatantly untrue. Religion has certainly been the cause and root of a lot of evil and problems, but you cannot necessarily ascribe this to all of it's members.
Seriously, I'm arguing "don't be a douche" and people are arguing that it's ok to be a douche.
You certainly can, and nothing I can do or say will stop you. It doesn't make you not a douche.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Mormons can be good people obviously but their basic teachings are not all good things.
Mormonism teaches sexism in it's basic rules and the community is very unfriendly to anyone who wasn't born into it. During my short time as a Mormon I ran into the following difficulties
- Was pressured into giving up a lot of my free time for church events
- Was pressured into giving up college to go on my mission (being of missionary age when I first joined)
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
- Experienced church rumours first hand (mind this isn't a Mormon specific problem, any large group of people has this)
- Saw how women are basically treated as cattle. Nobody cares what they're doing with their future, but how about talking to this nice return eligible missionary and pumping out babies asap?
I did not know any of this. That is pretty terrible, yeah. Also, church rumors?
Mormons can be good people obviously but their basic teachings are not all good things.
Mormonism teaches sexism in it's basic rules and the community is very unfriendly to anyone who wasn't born into it. During my short time as a Mormon I ran into the following difficulties
- Was pressured into giving up a lot of my free time for church events
- Was pressured into giving up college to go on my mission (being of missionary age when I first joined)
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
- Experienced church rumours first hand (mind this isn't a Mormon specific problem, any large group of people has this)
- Saw how women are basically treated as cattle. Nobody cares what they're doing with their future, but how about talking to this nice return eligible missionary and pumping out babies asap?
I did not know any of this. That is pretty terrible, yeah. Also, church rumors?
I know its all fashionable to hate on religion, but Mormonism really does have some fucked up shit it needs to deal with.
Mormons can be good people obviously but their basic teachings are not all good things.
Mormonism teaches sexism in it's basic rules and the community is very unfriendly to anyone who wasn't born into it. During my short time as a Mormon I ran into the following difficulties
- Was pressured into giving up a lot of my free time for church events
- Was pressured into giving up college to go on my mission (being of missionary age when I first joined)
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
- Experienced church rumours first hand (mind this isn't a Mormon specific problem, any large group of people has this)
- Saw how women are basically treated as cattle. Nobody cares what they're doing with their future, but how about talking to this nice return eligible missionary and pumping out babies asap?
I did not know any of this. That is pretty terrible, yeah. Also, church rumors?
Oh yeah, rumours are horrible in the church environment, especially one which promotes gender roles.
Also, the women have a class on how to be good housewives. It's not called that but the activities are all housewife related. That makes me sad.
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
Yes, now you're starting to get it, that's not at all okay.
He's subsidizing a hatemongering, misogynist group that is the worlds largest safe-harbor for child rape. So, while your local priest may be a really open-minded, super-nice guy, he's supporting child rape. And I'm sorry, but I'm really not okay with that, no matter how okay he may be otherwise.
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this..
This is wrong and whoever told you that was wrong. Marriage is required in the Mormon doctrine to get into the highest stuff, but it's for men and women.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
This is a problem with human nature, the church actually rails against this.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Maybe you were watching a different Proposition 8 campaign than I was, one where the Catholic Church didn't dump millions of dollars into trying to make gay people miserable.
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this..
This is wrong and whoever told you that was wrong. Marriage is required in the Mormon doctrine to get into the highest stuff, but it's for men and women.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
This is a problem with human nature, the church actually rails against this.
edit: Fixed my post to reflect yours
I'm glad to hear the second quote is something they're actively trying to fix, it sucks.
The first one though, I thought men had an out still which is related to being part of the higher clergy (or whatever they call themselves).
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
Yes, now you're starting to get it, that's not at all okay.
He's subsidizing a hatemongering, misogynist group that is the worlds largest safe-harbor for child rape. So, while your local priest may be a really open-minded, super-nice guy, he's supporting child rape. And I'm sorry, but I'm really not okay with that, no matter how okay he may be otherwise.
Uh, no. He isn't. Just like your taxes don't mean you're supporting the invasion of Iraq. It's entirely possible to be inside that community and strive for change within it, just like how you can be American and disagree with the policies of America.
That seems like sorta a "You're with us or against us" mentality Thanatos. Yeah, the Catholic church is a heinous organization in many ways, but in others it has done a lot of good. Over history, probably more bad than good.
I don't think we can really find a resolution on this specific issue though, so I'm done arguing with you on it.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Maybe you were watching a different Proposition 8 campaign than I was, one where the Catholic Church didn't dump millions of dollars into trying to make gay people miserable.
I didn't pay attention to Prop 8 honestly, because I'm rather far away from the issue, but I googled after seeing this and found this interesting article.
""I'm not happy with the current administration," Farrow said, "but I haven't shredded my passport."" says the Gay priest.
But yeah, that money they gave to support Prop 8 is certainly pretty terrible. Although the most money I'm seeing is from the Knights of Columbus, who are associated with, but not directly the Catholic church.
Still doesn't make the individual Catholic a bad person.
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
Yes, now you're starting to get it, that's not at all okay.
He's subsidizing a hatemongering, misogynist group that is the worlds largest safe-harbor for child rape. So, while your local priest may be a really open-minded, super-nice guy, he's supporting child rape. And I'm sorry, but I'm really not okay with that, no matter how okay he may be otherwise.
Uh, no. He isn't. Just like your taxes don't mean you're supporting the invasion of Iraq. It's entirely possible to be inside that community and strive for change within it, just like how you can be American and disagree with the policies of America.
Except you have no choice about paying taxes, you are legally bound to do so. There exists no such legal compulsion for donating to the church, and therefore you can hold them partly responsible for what the church does with that money.
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
Yes, now you're starting to get it, that's not at all okay.
He's subsidizing a hatemongering, misogynist group that is the worlds largest safe-harbor for child rape. So, while your local priest may be a really open-minded, super-nice guy, he's supporting child rape. And I'm sorry, but I'm really not okay with that, no matter how okay he may be otherwise.
Uh, no. He isn't. Just like your taxes don't mean you're supporting the invasion of Iraq. It's entirely possible to be inside that community and strive for change within it, just like how you can be American and disagree with the policies of America.
That seems like sorta a "You're with us or against us" mentality Thanatos. Yeah, the Catholic church is a heinous organization in many ways, but in others it has done a lot of good. Over history, probably more bad than good.
I don't think we can really find a resolution on this specific issue though, so I'm done arguing with you on it.
If you're born in America, there really isn't a realistic alternative to being American.
There are literally thousands of alternatives to Catholicism, and not only are they not difficult to get into, most of them actively encourage you to join. So, really, for the one, your choice is "uproot your entire family, leave everything and everyone you've ever known, pay a whole bunch of money, probably have to learn a new language, and try to maybe be able to get into another country, if you're lucky," and the other you have "spend Sunday morning with the child rapists, or have to drive a little further down the block to spend it with the non-rapists."
just to head back a bit more on topic if I may, at what time does it stop being OK, to your mind, for someone to protest against you?
Is there a time limit for how long you should be able to stand out on public property and protest? Is it more acceptable to protest outside your house or your place of business? What would constitute a reasonable level of protest (banners, loud hailers or anything else to that effect)?
just to head back a bit more on topic if I may, at what time does it stop being OK, to your mind, for someone to protest against you?
Is there a time limit for how long you should be able to stand out on public property and protest? Is it more acceptable to protest outside your house or your place of business? What would constitute a reasonable level of protest (banners, loud hailers or anything else to that effect)?
I'm just wondering what everyone's opinions are
I draw the line at being a public nuisance and/or making life difficult for people.
If it's a planned thing and you are going to be blocking off streets for a march or whatever, it's not a big deal as long as it is widely reported and there are alternatives.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Maybe you were watching a different Proposition 8 campaign than I was, one where the Catholic Church didn't dump millions of dollars into trying to make gay people miserable.
I didn't pay attention to Prop 8 honestly, because I'm rather far away from the issue, but I googled after seeing this and found this interesting article.
""I'm not happy with the current administration," Farrow said, "but I haven't shredded my passport."" says the Gay priest.
But yeah, that money they gave to support Prop 8 is certainly pretty terrible. Although the most money I'm seeing is from the Knights of Columbus, who are associated with, but not directly the Catholic church.
Still doesn't make the individual Catholic a bad person.
Yes, thank god there are priests like him in the Catholic church.
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Maybe you were watching a different Proposition 8 campaign than I was, one where the Catholic Church didn't dump millions of dollars into trying to make gay people miserable.
I didn't pay attention to Prop 8 honestly, because I'm rather far away from the issue, but I googled after seeing this and found this interesting article.
""I'm not happy with the current administration," Farrow said, "but I haven't shredded my passport."" says the Gay priest.
But yeah, that money they gave to support Prop 8 is certainly pretty terrible. Although the most money I'm seeing is from the Knights of Columbus, who are associated with, but not directly the Catholic church.
Still doesn't make the individual Catholic a bad person.
Yes, thank god there are priests like him in the Catholic church.
Yes, every single priest in every single Catholic church supports everything the Roman Catholic hierarchy does, and it is impossible to be Catholic and be pro-gay rights. Are you even fucking listening to yourself?
I mean, I don't hate black people; I just show up for the cross burnings and give them some donations. I'm just in it for the social aspects, and I look good in a white hood.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
Maybe you were watching a different Proposition 8 campaign than I was, one where the Catholic Church didn't dump millions of dollars into trying to make gay people miserable.
I didn't pay attention to Prop 8 honestly, because I'm rather far away from the issue, but I googled after seeing this and found this interesting article.
""I'm not happy with the current administration," Farrow said, "but I haven't shredded my passport."" says the Gay priest.
But yeah, that money they gave to support Prop 8 is certainly pretty terrible. Although the most money I'm seeing is from the Knights of Columbus, who are associated with, but not directly the Catholic church.
Still doesn't make the individual Catholic a bad person.
Yes, thank god there are priests like him in the Catholic church.
Yes, every single priest in every single Catholic church supports everything the Roman Catholic hierarchy does, and it is impossible to be Catholic and be pro-gay rights. Are you even fucking listening to yourself?
They collect money for the church, try to increase the monetary base of the church, and send money to the church. How is that not support? If I found out my magazine subscription was paying for prop 8 support, I'd cancel the subscription so I wouldn't be supporting proposition 8.
where's the line then? if you have one group of people who agree with the good, and damn the bad, and another group who lauds both, why are they even in the same group?
just to head back a bit more on topic if I may, at what time does it stop being OK, to your mind, for someone to protest against you?
Is there a time limit for how long you should be able to stand out on public property and protest? Is it more acceptable to protest outside your house or your place of business? What would constitute a reasonable level of protest (banners, loud hailers or anything else to that effect)?
I'm just wondering what everyone's opinions are
That's an incredibly complex question.
It's also irrelevant to most people. I mean, how many private citizens do stuff that brings out protestors? I really can't think of anything I could ever do that would bring an angry rabble to my house.
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just to head back a bit more on topic if I may, at what time does it stop being OK, to your mind, for someone to protest against you?
Is there a time limit for how long you should be able to stand out on public property and protest? Is it more acceptable to protest outside your house or your place of business? What would constitute a reasonable level of protest (banners, loud hailers or anything else to that effect)?
I'm just wondering what everyone's opinions are
That's an incredibly complex question.
It's also irrelevant to most people. I mean, how many private citizens do stuff that brings out protestors? I really can't think of anything I could ever do that would bring an angry rabble to my house.
You could be gay, or Muslim, or a black guy with a skullcap.
Hasn't someone given chick tracts the MST3K treatment?
Fake edit: I found This one of the Dark Dungeon tract.
Also, from the wiki:
Hot Chicks is a collection of nine short films, each based on a Chick Tract. The film played at the 2006 Los Angeles International Film Festival, the New Fest in New York, and others. The films are word for word (and often shot for shot) adaptations of Chick Tracts. The Tracts adapted are Bewitched?, "La Princesita", "Somebody Goofed", Titanic, "Cleo", "Doom Town", "Wounded Children", "Angels?", and "Party Girl."
I may have to try and watch that one day when I'm bored. Also:
Posts
If you are assuming that someone who is a member of an organization is a believer and practitioner of every aspect of that organization, you are being prejudiced against that person.
This forum has a lot of "religion is inherently evil" thought in it, which is blatantly untrue. Religion has certainly been the cause and root of a lot of evil and problems, but you cannot necessarily ascribe this to all of it's members.
Seriously, I'm arguing "don't be a douche" and people are arguing that it's ok to be a douche.
You certainly can, and nothing I can do or say will stop you. It doesn't make you not a douche.
I really don't think treating these people like shit is being a douche; they deserve to be treated like shit. You are doing a good thing when you treat them like shit.
It's like if someone says they're a liberal Democrat, then gives $20,000 to Michelle Bachmann's re-election campaign; their words don't really matter, it's their actions that count, and their actions say that they're a hateful conservative Republican retard.
And again, Judaism is broken up into a bunch of sects; there is no Jewish "home office" that all of the Jewish synagogues give money to, unlike Catholicism and Mormonism.[/QUOTE]
So a Catholic, who goes to a catholic church in his area with a more liberal priest. Let's take this hypothetical person as an example.
If he goes to church, where his community and friends are, with a priest that preaches tolerance and acceptance of gay people and their way of life, and peace and harmony and all that jazz, and gives money to his local church, that's not ok?
The lines are not black and white, is all I'm saying.
If you are a member of an organization and advance that organization or work for that organization, you are advancing the organization and its goals.
The Catholic church? One person does not set official policy in the catholic church. That is not how it works.
I know lots of nice mormons too. Unfortunately they all tithe to the same shitty, backwards, hatemongering church that the not-so-nice mormons do.
Mormonism teaches sexism in it's basic rules and the community is very unfriendly to anyone who wasn't born into it. During my short time as a Mormon I ran into the following difficulties
- Was pressured into giving up a lot of my free time for church events
- Was pressured into giving up college to go on my mission (being of missionary age when I first joined)
- Was taught that women can't get into the highest heaven without getting married. Men can get in without this.
- Was segregated for being a new member. You know, people are friendly on the outside but they're cold and private on the inside. Nobody makes you feel welcome, you feel like you've moved into a small town where no-one really wants you around.
- Experienced church rumours first hand (mind this isn't a Mormon specific problem, any large group of people has this)
- Saw how women are basically treated as cattle. Nobody cares what they're doing with their future, but how about talking to this nice return eligible missionary and pumping out babies asap?
Edit: Keep in mind this isn't all of them but there were enough who promoted this behaviour (and those who didn't, didn't discourage it) to stick out.
Might've been our city community, I dunno.
They do have the politest missionaries I've come across though. One word and they excuse themselves.
This is not the example I gave, or anywhere close to it. There is no "let's go harass the gays" movement in the Catholic church. Shit, the official stance of the Catholics is to be accepting and kind to gay people, just like to everyone else.
I did not know any of this. That is pretty terrible, yeah. Also, church rumors?
I know its all fashionable to hate on religion, but Mormonism really does have some fucked up shit it needs to deal with.
Oh yeah, rumours are horrible in the church environment, especially one which promotes gender roles.
Also, the women have a class on how to be good housewives. It's not called that but the activities are all housewife related. That makes me sad.
He's subsidizing a hatemongering, misogynist group that is the worlds largest safe-harbor for child rape. So, while your local priest may be a really open-minded, super-nice guy, he's supporting child rape. And I'm sorry, but I'm really not okay with that, no matter how okay he may be otherwise.
This is wrong and whoever told you that was wrong. Marriage is required in the Mormon doctrine to get into the highest stuff, but it's for men and women.
This is a problem with human nature, the church actually rails against this.
Then here's a Chick tract to cheer you up!
edit: Fixed my post to reflect yours
I'm glad to hear the second quote is something they're actively trying to fix, it sucks.
The first one though, I thought men had an out still which is related to being part of the higher clergy (or whatever they call themselves).
Uh, no. He isn't. Just like your taxes don't mean you're supporting the invasion of Iraq. It's entirely possible to be inside that community and strive for change within it, just like how you can be American and disagree with the policies of America.
That seems like sorta a "You're with us or against us" mentality Thanatos. Yeah, the Catholic church is a heinous organization in many ways, but in others it has done a lot of good. Over history, probably more bad than good.
I don't think we can really find a resolution on this specific issue though, so I'm done arguing with you on it.
Abdul must be a ventriloquist or something to do all that yelling with his mouth closed.
I didn't pay attention to Prop 8 honestly, because I'm rather far away from the issue, but I googled after seeing this and found this interesting article.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/26/local/me-lopez26/2
""I'm not happy with the current administration," Farrow said, "but I haven't shredded my passport."" says the Gay priest.
But yeah, that money they gave to support Prop 8 is certainly pretty terrible. Although the most money I'm seeing is from the Knights of Columbus, who are associated with, but not directly the Catholic church.
Still doesn't make the individual Catholic a bad person.
Except you have no choice about paying taxes, you are legally bound to do so. There exists no such legal compulsion for donating to the church, and therefore you can hold them partly responsible for what the church does with that money.
There are literally thousands of alternatives to Catholicism, and not only are they not difficult to get into, most of them actively encourage you to join. So, really, for the one, your choice is "uproot your entire family, leave everything and everyone you've ever known, pay a whole bunch of money, probably have to learn a new language, and try to maybe be able to get into another country, if you're lucky," and the other you have "spend Sunday morning with the child rapists, or have to drive a little further down the block to spend it with the non-rapists."
Little bit of a difference, there.
I am required to say "you're welcome" or I will burn for all eternity in the lake of fire.
Chick has all sorts of tracts specially prepared for people of all ethnicities and every interest.
Here's a NASCAR tract! (spoiler: Jesus is a total dick again)
And that "You Goofed" tract is available for black people too! Because they wouldn't understand if the people in the judgmental comic book were white.
Is there a time limit for how long you should be able to stand out on public property and protest? Is it more acceptable to protest outside your house or your place of business? What would constitute a reasonable level of protest (banners, loud hailers or anything else to that effect)?
I'm just wondering what everyone's opinions are
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
I shall leave you with this: Don't be a dick.
I draw the line at being a public nuisance and/or making life difficult for people.
If it's a planned thing and you are going to be blocking off streets for a march or whatever, it's not a big deal as long as it is widely reported and there are alternatives.
Oh, wait, no, there aren't.
Yes.
It says, "Adapted specially for black audiences" on the order form.
Yes, every single priest in every single Catholic church supports everything the Roman Catholic hierarchy does, and it is impossible to be Catholic and be pro-gay rights. Are you even fucking listening to yourself?
They collect money for the church, try to increase the monetary base of the church, and send money to the church. How is that not support? If I found out my magazine subscription was paying for prop 8 support, I'd cancel the subscription so I wouldn't be supporting proposition 8.
That's both amusing as really fucking sad.
It's also irrelevant to most people. I mean, how many private citizens do stuff that brings out protestors? I really can't think of anything I could ever do that would bring an angry rabble to my house.
Rigorous Scholarship
You could be gay, or Muslim, or a black guy with a skullcap.
Fake edit: I found This one of the Dark Dungeon tract.
Also, from the wiki: I may have to try and watch that one day when I'm bored. Also:
Galactus is coming!
Some of the panels are crammed with stereotypes
The fucked up their stereotype there. Rednecks do speed, black people in cities do crack.
And I'm not shocked there are bible cartoons for black people, there are a lot of black churches.