i just like not having to live in the ghetto/commute an hour each way every day and being able to go out with my friends instead of sitting at home alone
Going out with friends is part of having visibility and status.
It's almost universally part of human culture, but it's a social activity nonetheless.
yeah
that is true and accurate in terms of defining those terms
but like
you made it sound different like blah blah if you need those things you're a hoighty toighty
i'm going to be an elec/chem engineer, pull down like 55k a year
buy a year's worth of ramen and a big refrigerator box to sleep in
i'm not sure what to do with the rest of the money
you want it?
spend all your free time practising martial arts
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited August 2010
i spend a lot more on strictly unnecessary luxury and comfort than i do status and visibility
clothes to the side, i guess, though i'm not really sure what's animating that is status and visibility either. it's more like meeting some sort of personal ideal.
basically, i buy unnecessarily expensive food and liquor, and go out to nice meals and venues and stuff. it's not so much to show off as to experience something nice
a neighborhood that is satisfactory to a grad student - usually a safe-ish student ghetto or student apartment or dorm - isn't appropriate to a professional adult. borrowing a car from one's buddy on the occasion that you can't walk to class or the lab isn't a big deal to a student, but isn't appropriate to an adult professional.
i guess there are just a lot of things about a student lifestyle that don't transfer well to being an adult professional. i agree that we put too much emphasis on status and materialism, and i don't claim that i'm always thrifty or anything, but i think there's more to it than you probably imagine
I think that's a legitimate point to raise. Lives are different when you get older, and your material situation changes in important ways.
What really bothers me is that I see my material situation changing in more expensive ways that I don't myself endorse. For instance, when white-collar professionals go out to restaurants they expect to order wine and appetizers, and as a whole this multiplies the bill significantly. No one needs either of these things intrinsically. But I might need to do them in order to fit in with a professional society where they are expected
This, in turn, revolts me. I see my friends going down this path and I find it upsetting. We don't need these things. This is not what we should gear a humanist economoy towards providing, and their very existence drives us towards a harmful and needless competition.
a neighborhood that is satisfactory to a grad student - usually a safe-ish student ghetto or student apartment or dorm - isn't appropriate to a professional adult. borrowing a car from one's buddy on the occasion that you can't walk to class or the lab isn't a big deal to a student, but isn't appropriate to an adult professional.
i guess there are just a lot of things about a student lifestyle that don't transfer well to being an adult professional. i agree that we put too much emphasis on status and materialism, and i don't claim that i'm always thrifty or anything, but i think there's more to it than you probably imagine
I think that's a legitimate point to raise. Lives are different when you get older, and your material situation changes in important ways.
What really bothers me is that I see my material situation changing in more expensive ways that I don't myself endorse. For instance, when white-collar professionals go out to restaurants they expect to order wine and appetizers, and as a whole this multiplies the bill significantly. No one needs either of these things intrinsically. But I might need to do them in order to fit in with a professional society where they are expected
This, in turn, revolts me. I see my friends going down this path and I find it upsetting. We don't need these things. This is not what we should gear a humanist economoy towards providing, and their very existence drives us towards a harmful and needless competition.
you know, i pushed back p strongly against what you describe in general terms and your specific example (wine and appetizers) for many years after college.
i bought clothes from the salvation army and sometimes target. i'd frequent used book stores and used music stores. buy store-brand canned goods and quick-sale meat.
did this until probably i was in my 30s. had a p good run with it before i kind of mellowed.
and yeah it made me kind of a weirdo and sort of limited the company i could reasonably keep.
i'm ambivalent about it, in part because i feel like i'm kind of soft and wasteful these days, but on the other hand i'm not really sure i'm really happy with the kind of dude i was back in those days.
I can't fathom feeling bad for spending your money. As long as you'll have enough saved up to survive when you're retired and for emergencies, ain't no reason to feel bad about spending money on yourself.
Edit: Oops, this is Choco.
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ZampanovYou May Not Go HomeUntil Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered Userregular
I can't fathom feeling bad for spending your money. As long as you'll have enough saved up to survive when you're retired and for emergencies, ain't no reason to feel bad about spending money on yourself.
Edit: Oops, this is Choco.
my mom grew up wicked poor, and i had some rough spells once i was on my own
dropped out of school and worked at a denny's
lived in a flophouse in the DC ghetto and hung out with homeless dudes
i mean, i've seen some poor times
and i guess i kind of feel like i'm - i don't know - being wasteful? betraying the lessons i learned? - when i, say, go out for a nice meal or something
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
i'm ambivalent about it, in part because i feel like i'm kind of soft and wasteful these days, but on the other hand i'm not really sure i'm really happy with the kind of dude i was back in those days.
sooo
You seem like a pretty awesome dude.
I also think that we are socially sick. We are concentrating on the wrong things. And this is somewhat borne out by happiness research: past a minimal level, more money does not make people happier, according to our best science. What makes people most happy is a minimal subsistence level, coupled with a full and active social network. My conclusion is that this means that large portions of our economy--those dedicated to ice sculptures that piss vodka for high powered executives--are not dedicated to human needs. They are dedicated to human competition and to the worst parts of ourselves.
i'm ambivalent about it, in part because i feel like i'm kind of soft and wasteful these days, but on the other hand i'm not really sure i'm really happy with the kind of dude i was back in those days.
sooo
You seem like a pretty awesome dude.
I also think that we are socially sick. We are concentrating on the wrong things. And this is somewhat borne out by happiness research: past a minimal level, more money does not make people happier, according to our best science. What makes people most happy is a minimal subsistence level, coupled with a full and active social network. My conclusion is that this means that large portions of our economy--those dedicated to ice sculptures that piss vodka for high powered executives--are not dedicated to human needs. They are dedicated to human competition and to the worst parts of ourselves.
i think that you and i agree on this stuff, certainly in the broad strokes.
i probably even agree with you in a lot of the details.
and i'm a little envious on some levels of your current ability to enjoy the purity of your ideals.
but somehow the righteousness of thrift that i once enjoyed and took pride in has kind of faded from me, just leaving a kind of vague guilt.
i'm not really big into showy things. i drive a modest car that is over 10 yrs old. i live in a little condo in a nice area. actually, the idea of doing showy things for that reason alone kind of offends me.
but still i'll prob go out for dinner tomorrow night
and i might order an appetizer
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited August 2010
anyways it is time to sleep for me guys
chat with you soon
(also i am locking this thread because who knows when jeff or elks are gonna stumble by again. make a new chat pls)
Posts
To the hermitage!
Steam | Twitter
to slap you when you become engrossed in your own mental contortions
yeah
that is true and accurate in terms of defining those terms
but like
you made it sound different like blah blah if you need those things you're a hoighty toighty
i'm going to be an elec/chem engineer, pull down like 55k a year
buy a year's worth of ramen and a big refrigerator box to sleep in
i'm not sure what to do with the rest of the money
you want it?
man, electrical engineers make more than 55 starting
pfft
they have to
i dunno what my friend at IBM is making as an EE but its definitely more than that
and lordy my CS friends at MSFT are starting over 80 living in bum ass cheap seattle
spend all your free time practising martial arts
clothes to the side, i guess, though i'm not really sure what's animating that is status and visibility either. it's more like meeting some sort of personal ideal.
basically, i buy unnecessarily expensive food and liquor, and go out to nice meals and venues and stuff. it's not so much to show off as to experience something nice
Okay, so I really just want to wear a suit and drink in a speakeasy.
@Pods: That will do nicely.
Steam | Twitter
I think that's a legitimate point to raise. Lives are different when you get older, and your material situation changes in important ways.
What really bothers me is that I see my material situation changing in more expensive ways that I don't myself endorse. For instance, when white-collar professionals go out to restaurants they expect to order wine and appetizers, and as a whole this multiplies the bill significantly. No one needs either of these things intrinsically. But I might need to do them in order to fit in with a professional society where they are expected
This, in turn, revolts me. I see my friends going down this path and I find it upsetting. We don't need these things. This is not what we should gear a humanist economoy towards providing, and their very existence drives us towards a harmful and needless competition.
i'm probably not smart enough for EE but i guess i'll find out when i return to school
and shoot dudes with tommy guns
sometimes i feel bad for not living off of a tiny amount of my salary and like banking the rest
i really do
because i remember living off of 12k in college and i guess i was happy enough right?
i think tastes change
this seems like academic nonsense to me
a humanist economy?
a humanist economy is exactly and directly a cycle of competition between self-identifying egos.
hence the need to move past humanism
I'm sure that analytic philosophy is up to such a task
Things are cheaper here than they are, say, in Berkeley.
Man, electricity is nuts. It might as well be magic for all I understand of it.
Edit: this is not meant to discourage you. I merely wished to voice my ignorance of the subject.
Steam | Twitter
I love you all
good night
All I meant by that is an economy geared towards meeting human needs, like the needs for food, shelter, and medical care.
Edit: night!
you know, i pushed back p strongly against what you describe in general terms and your specific example (wine and appetizers) for many years after college.
i bought clothes from the salvation army and sometimes target. i'd frequent used book stores and used music stores. buy store-brand canned goods and quick-sale meat.
did this until probably i was in my 30s. had a p good run with it before i kind of mellowed.
and yeah it made me kind of a weirdo and sort of limited the company i could reasonably keep.
i'm ambivalent about it, in part because i feel like i'm kind of soft and wasteful these days, but on the other hand i'm not really sure i'm really happy with the kind of dude i was back in those days.
sooo
Edit: Oops, this is Choco.
I posted it a few pages ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5FW8Xo8ENo&feature=related
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
i think you're prob smart enough
but being behind in math is gonna be a challenge for you
and EE might not be the most efficient way to a degree for you
it's really gonna depend on what you can find to love in the field
i kinda think from what you have said that you are inclined towards ME
now i enjoy a well cooked (often expensive) meal
i enjoy shooting guns
shooting them costs money
i like running a lot, and at the high end of it i enjoy tech shirts and nice sneakers and performance drinks and foods
etc
i think it's possible to live a rewarding and enjoying life without lots of dollars
i think some things that are valuable to some people, though, cost some dollars
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
my mom grew up wicked poor, and i had some rough spells once i was on my own
dropped out of school and worked at a denny's
lived in a flophouse in the DC ghetto and hung out with homeless dudes
i mean, i've seen some poor times
and i guess i kind of feel like i'm - i don't know - being wasteful? betraying the lessons i learned? - when i, say, go out for a nice meal or something
You seem like a pretty awesome dude.
I also think that we are socially sick. We are concentrating on the wrong things. And this is somewhat borne out by happiness research: past a minimal level, more money does not make people happier, according to our best science. What makes people most happy is a minimal subsistence level, coupled with a full and active social network. My conclusion is that this means that large portions of our economy--those dedicated to ice sculptures that piss vodka for high powered executives--are not dedicated to human needs. They are dedicated to human competition and to the worst parts of ourselves.
For example,
Owning three hummers is p wasteful and destructive.
Going out for a nice meal on occasion? I could only consider it wasteful if you do not enjoy the experience.
Steam | Twitter
i think that you and i agree on this stuff, certainly in the broad strokes.
i probably even agree with you in a lot of the details.
and i'm a little envious on some levels of your current ability to enjoy the purity of your ideals.
but somehow the righteousness of thrift that i once enjoyed and took pride in has kind of faded from me, just leaving a kind of vague guilt.
i'm not really big into showy things. i drive a modest car that is over 10 yrs old. i live in a little condo in a nice area. actually, the idea of doing showy things for that reason alone kind of offends me.
but still i'll prob go out for dinner tomorrow night
and i might order an appetizer
chat with you soon
(also i am locking this thread because who knows when jeff or elks are gonna stumble by again. make a new chat pls)