Religion is a huge part of politics therefor it is part of any decent political spectrum. You cannot separate religion from politics with the possible exception of deism or whatever.
Religious belief and politics have never been wholly separate entities.
Hell, the church used to be the only political game in town.
Thats not what I'm saying though, only that religion in and of itself does not have a place in the political spectrum
Religion as a concept does not, no.
But holding to the tenets of any given religion does a very good job of defining believers politically.
In either direction, and not reliably in one.
It varies by denomination, yes.
So if some people interpret liberal positions form their religion and some conservative then we can't say that the basic idea of religion itself has a position in the political spectrum.
And hell, it differs even within denominations. My grandparents, old fashioned catholics, cite their religion as motivation for their 50 years campaigning for democrats in California and championing liberal causes. My grandmothers sister refused to attend her daughter's wedding because she wore a sleeveless dress.
Fun fact actually, my grandfather drove Robert Kennedy to the event he was assassinated at.
Various Religions hold views that place them along an ideological spectrum. Or at least, those denominations prioritize their beliefs in such a way that they become politically predictable.
But that doesn't place religion as a whole on the spectrum at some point, nor does it bar individual believers from breaking step with their fellow churchgoers.
Various Religions hold views that place them along an ideological spectrum. Or at least, those denominations prioritize their beliefs in such a way that they become politically predictable.
But that doesn't place religion as a whole on the spectrum at some point, nor does it bar individual believers from breaking step with their fellow churchgoers.
Just like how plenty of people break with the general category even if they consider themselves conservative, Republican, etc. General categories are just general categories.
The really disappointing thing with the whole (overgeneralized) "Christians are right wing" thing is that the whole welfare, healthcare, collective action, money corrupts message of Christ seems to have been completely brushed under the rug in favor of all the most hateful stuff from the old testament.
This is one of the reasons I quit identifying as a Christian. Not that I ever really was, mind you. It was just an easy shorthand for the morals I'd picked up and the mythology I knew.
The really disappointing thing with the whole (overgeneralized) "Christians are right wing" thing is that the whole welfare, healthcare, collective action, money corrupts message of Christ seems to have been completely brushed under the rug in favor of all the most hateful stuff from the old testament.
This is one of the reasons I quit identifying as a Christian. Not that I ever really was, mind you. It was just an easy shorthand for the morals I'd picked up and the mythology I knew.
I think a lot of it is just the most hateful and vitriolic right wing Christians are dominating the message for the rest of the country.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited November 2010
A true "Christian Nation" would have the most kickass welfare, rehabilitation and healthcare systems in the world.
We also would have our political leaders having monthly sit-down dinners with moneylenders, prostitutes and criminals to find out how they have been wronged, and to forgive them their sins.
Oh shit...
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Martin Joel Erzinger will not be charged with a felony because "Felony convictions have some pretty serious job implications for someone in Mr. Erzinger's profession," according to District Attorney Mark Hurlbert.
That is an excellent reason to charge him with a felony or is running over a person and then fleeing the scene supposed to not have drastic consequences now?
Well, you see he has money. Lots of it. Therefore the rules are different for him.
Also, is there a profession where a felony conviction wouldn't have serious job implications?
Martin Joel Erzinger will not be charged with a felony because "Felony convictions have some pretty serious job implications for someone in Mr. Erzinger's profession," according to District Attorney Mark Hurlbert.
That is an excellent reason to charge him with a felony or is running over a person and then fleeing the scene supposed to not have drastic consequences now?
Well, you see he has money. Lots of it. Therefore the rules are different for him.
Also, is there a profession where a felony conviction wouldn't have serious job implications?
Senator.
Tell that to Ted Stevens.
You guys barely voted him out!
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Also, Atlas Shrugged is not some kind of right wing Bible. Ayn Rand is just stupid and neither necessarily right wing or left wing. Moreover, a huge fucking group of Republicans, the religious right-wing, obviously are against that idea.
No, Randian ideas are pretty solidly right wing. And while the religious right and large groups of other right wingers may profess notions of inherent equality their actions and actual policy beliefs are something else entirely.
Randian ideas like there being no god are sooooooooooooooooooooooo right wing.
Every single other aspect of Randian philosophy is the cornerstone of right wing thinking in America today
Atlas has been pushed on Fox by the same people who sit and cry about war on Christmas and prayer in schools and "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution"
The reasoning? These people don't actually give a shit about Christianity. They are playing religious middle America like a goddamn fiddle. It's wrong to blame the victim here, I think, so I'm not angry at Christians over the state of affairs (except that they seem to have collectively forgotten that Jesus talked about tolerance and charity and how being excessively wealthy made it hard as hell to get into heaven), I'm angry at the conservative leaders for being frauds.
override367 on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
Single nitpick:
It was the simple fact of being rich that made it hard to get into heaven, it was the attitudes and lifestyle usually accompanied by huge amounts of wealth.
It was the simple fact of being rich that made it hard to get into heaven, it was the attitudes and lifestyle usually accompanied by huge amounts of wealth.
Continue...
I would disagree.
Christ was collectivist enough that the act of being wealthy while others went poor probably would have been called sinful.
Martin Joel Erzinger will not be charged with a felony because "Felony convictions have some pretty serious job implications for someone in Mr. Erzinger's profession," according to District Attorney Mark Hurlbert.
That is an excellent reason to charge him with a felony or is running over a person and then fleeing the scene supposed to not have drastic consequences now?
Well, you see he has money. Lots of it. Therefore the rules are different for him.
Also, is there a profession where a felony conviction wouldn't have serious job implications?
Senator.
Tell that to Ted Stevens.
You guys barely voted him out!
He was probably the most popular politian, in regards to his homestate, in the entire US. And that felony STILL make him lose to a Democrat. That's no small feat, my good man.
Also, Atlas Shrugged is not some kind of right wing Bible. Ayn Rand is just stupid and neither necessarily right wing or left wing. Moreover, a huge fucking group of Republicans, the religious right-wing, obviously are against that idea.
No, Randian ideas are pretty solidly right wing. And while the religious right and large groups of other right wingers may profess notions of inherent equality their actions and actual policy beliefs are something else entirely.
Randian ideas like there being no god are sooooooooooooooooooooooo right wing.
Every single other aspect of Randian philosophy is the cornerstone of right wing thinking in America today
Atlas has been pushed on Fox by the same people who sit and cry about war on Christmas and prayer in schools and "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution"
The reasoning? These people don't actually give a shit about Christianity. They are playing religious middle America like a goddamn fiddle. It's wrong to blame the victim here, I think, so I'm not angry at Christians over the state of affairs (except that they seem to have collectively forgotten that Jesus talked about tolerance and charity and how being excessively wealthy made it hard as hell to get into heaven), I'm angry at the conservative leaders for being frauds.
Eh, not really. They didn't throw Christianity out. They threw out Rand's hatred of religion and kept the rest of her stuff because it lined up with what they wanted to believe. Plus, you know, Rand is basically Prosperity Theology minus God and they fucking LOVE their Prosperity Theology type shit.
The Right Wing in the US just added God back into Rand and called it a day.
Also, Atlas Shrugged is not some kind of right wing Bible. Ayn Rand is just stupid and neither necessarily right wing or left wing. Moreover, a huge fucking group of Republicans, the religious right-wing, obviously are against that idea.
No, Randian ideas are pretty solidly right wing. And while the religious right and large groups of other right wingers may profess notions of inherent equality their actions and actual policy beliefs are something else entirely.
Randian ideas like there being no god are sooooooooooooooooooooooo right wing.
Every single other aspect of Randian philosophy is the cornerstone of right wing thinking in America today
Atlas has been pushed on Fox by the same people who sit and cry about war on Christmas and prayer in schools and "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution"
The reasoning? These people don't actually give a shit about Christianity. They are playing religious middle America like a goddamn fiddle. It's wrong to blame the victim here, I think, so I'm not angry at Christians over the state of affairs (except that they seem to have collectively forgotten that Jesus talked about tolerance and charity and how being excessively wealthy made it hard as hell to get into heaven), I'm angry at the conservative leaders for being frauds.
Eh, not really. They didn't throw Christianity out. They threw out Rand's hatred of religion and kept the rest of her stuff because it lined up with what they wanted to believe. Plus, you know, Rand is basically Prosperity Theology minus God and they fucking LOVE their Prosperity Theology type shit.
The Right Wing in the US just added God back into Rand and called it a day.
No I'm saying that the average right winger who is religious and a randian because they heard of it on Beck or something just hasn't read the book or is willfully ignorant. The leaders of the right wing who are champions of this, beck, hannity, etc - those guys know full well that Randian philosophy conflicts with Christian philosophy. In fact the two are almost polar opposites! They use Christianity/WWJD/etc whenever it's useful for their arguments, but they certainly aren't Christians themselves.
override367 on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
wow, it really has been slow today.... i'm not really sure what all i just read....
Famous people pick and choose points of philosophies to support in order to garner attention and increase their fame. Also to keep the low/middle class voting and working against their best interest.
Looks like only 17% of voters cared about health care when voting. Behind the economy, party affiliation and individual candidates. And apparently a significant number of people that support the law decided it wasn't worth their time to vote. Which goes a long way in explaining why Democrats running away from their platform didn't really help their campaigns.
Looks like only 17% of voters cared about health care when voting. Behind the economy, party affiliation and individual candidates. And apparently a significant number of people that support the law decided it wasn't worth their time to vote. Which goes a long way in explaining why Democrats running away from their platform didn't really help their campaigns.
HCR was a fantastic bill to run on in general as long as you could frame it right.
Looks like only 17% of voters cared about health care when voting. Behind the economy, party affiliation and individual candidates. And apparently a significant number of people that support the law decided it wasn't worth their time to vote. Which goes a long way in explaining why Democrats running away from their platform didn't really help their campaigns.
HCR was a fantastic bill to run on in general as long as you could frame it right.
And nobody could because they're all terrible at that.
Looks like only 17% of voters cared about health care when voting. Behind the economy, party affiliation and individual candidates. And apparently a significant number of people that support the law decided it wasn't worth their time to vote. Which goes a long way in explaining why Democrats running away from their platform didn't really help their campaigns.
HCR was a fantastic bill to run on in general as long as you could frame it right.
And nobody could because they're all terrible at that.
I want to run for congress on a platform composed of slogans and sports metaphors just to see what happens.
A comedian in Denmark ran for parliament as a joke on a platform of putting nutella in soldiers field rations, wind in your back on the cycling paths and sunny sundays.
Evan Bayh and Kent Conrad are joining Pete Peterson in his usual quest to destroy social security. Bayh is irrelevant in two months except as a Fox News talking point (even liberal Democrats like Evan Bayh, who was among the socialist President's Vice Presidential finalists...) but Conrad is kind of important, being on the debt commission and the chairman of one of the various budget committees.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I want to run for congress on a platform composed of slogans and sports metaphors just to see what happens.
A comedian in Denmark ran for parliament as a joke on a platform of putting nutella in soldiers field rations, wind in your back on the cycling paths and sunny sundays.
...
He got in.
Our soldiers did get the nutella though.
The Internet was invented so I could learn this fact.
Why? You can't seriously think you'll ever draw Social Security can you?
If you can read a damn actuarial chart you should expect to. The idea that social security is insolvent is the biggest lie in modern American politics.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I think the current incarnation is pretty much doomed to failure.
For good reason it doesn't really build up a "bank" of funds but because of that very lack of a bank it is going to be raped by the Boomers. Of course, when I say "It" I mean me and my contemporaries or else the debt is going to get flat out absurd.
Unless you can shoot every fucker who thinks "Starve the Beast" is good I don't see how to make the current system work.
Posts
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
So if some people interpret liberal positions form their religion and some conservative then we can't say that the basic idea of religion itself has a position in the political spectrum.
And hell, it differs even within denominations. My grandparents, old fashioned catholics, cite their religion as motivation for their 50 years campaigning for democrats in California and championing liberal causes. My grandmothers sister refused to attend her daughter's wedding because she wore a sleeveless dress.
Fun fact actually, my grandfather drove Robert Kennedy to the event he was assassinated at.
But that doesn't place religion as a whole on the spectrum at some point, nor does it bar individual believers from breaking step with their fellow churchgoers.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Just like how plenty of people break with the general category even if they consider themselves conservative, Republican, etc. General categories are just general categories.
Because we all just seem to be restating each other.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
D&Ds been slow today.
This is one of the reasons I quit identifying as a Christian. Not that I ever really was, mind you. It was just an easy shorthand for the morals I'd picked up and the mythology I knew.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I think a lot of it is just the most hateful and vitriolic right wing Christians are dominating the message for the rest of the country.
There are a lot more Baptists and Evangelicals than there are Lutherans.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
We also would have our political leaders having monthly sit-down dinners with moneylenders, prostitutes and criminals to find out how they have been wronged, and to forgive them their sins.
Oh shit...
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Baptists with a strong charity and stewardship focus.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Tell that to Ted Stevens.
You guys barely voted him out!
And, you know, a soul.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Every single other aspect of Randian philosophy is the cornerstone of right wing thinking in America today
Atlas has been pushed on Fox by the same people who sit and cry about war on Christmas and prayer in schools and "separation of church and state isn't in the constitution"
The reasoning? These people don't actually give a shit about Christianity. They are playing religious middle America like a goddamn fiddle. It's wrong to blame the victim here, I think, so I'm not angry at Christians over the state of affairs (except that they seem to have collectively forgotten that Jesus talked about tolerance and charity and how being excessively wealthy made it hard as hell to get into heaven), I'm angry at the conservative leaders for being frauds.
It was the simple fact of being rich that made it hard to get into heaven, it was the attitudes and lifestyle usually accompanied by huge amounts of wealth.
Continue...
Christ was collectivist enough that the act of being wealthy while others went poor probably would have been called sinful.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
He was probably the most popular politian, in regards to his homestate, in the entire US. And that felony STILL make him lose to a Democrat. That's no small feat, my good man.
Eh, not really. They didn't throw Christianity out. They threw out Rand's hatred of religion and kept the rest of her stuff because it lined up with what they wanted to believe. Plus, you know, Rand is basically Prosperity Theology minus God and they fucking LOVE their Prosperity Theology type shit.
The Right Wing in the US just added God back into Rand and called it a day.
No I'm saying that the average right winger who is religious and a randian because they heard of it on Beck or something just hasn't read the book or is willfully ignorant. The leaders of the right wing who are champions of this, beck, hannity, etc - those guys know full well that Randian philosophy conflicts with Christian philosophy. In fact the two are almost polar opposites! They use Christianity/WWJD/etc whenever it's useful for their arguments, but they certainly aren't Christians themselves.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
HCR was a fantastic bill to run on in general as long as you could frame it right.
And nobody could because they're all terrible at that.
Its true.
A comedian in Denmark ran for parliament as a joke on a platform of putting nutella in soldiers field rations, wind in your back on the cycling paths and sunny sundays.
...
He got in.
Our soldiers did get the nutella though.
I'm in rough agreement with Brian on this, and I've spent several years as a professional Democrat.
Social Security is the kind of thing we need to be moving towards, not away from.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The Internet was invented so I could learn this fact.
Its purpose is served.
Shut it down.
If you can read a damn actuarial chart you should expect to. The idea that social security is insolvent is the biggest lie in modern American politics.
For good reason it doesn't really build up a "bank" of funds but because of that very lack of a bank it is going to be raped by the Boomers. Of course, when I say "It" I mean me and my contemporaries or else the debt is going to get flat out absurd.
Unless you can shoot every fucker who thinks "Starve the Beast" is good I don't see how to make the current system work.
Just remove the cap on income taxation and you're golden.