Winky, I actually don't know of any "general" histories of philosophy worth the effort to put in reading. Because if its written by a philosopher, they will ALWAYS frame the argument in terms of their bias, and if its written by a historian, they might miss the incredible subtleties that have always existed in philosophy. (Lots of people assume that Aristotle and Plato must be simple because they are thousands of years old, but their arguments are extremely intricate, detailed, and complex.)
The best method REALLY is to just read a major text or two by the big names starting with plato and aristotle. You can jump over the mediaeval philosophers if you want to get to modern philosophy, but you'll be missing a lot of crucial (and fascinating) physical and metaphysical arguments that guys like Descartes and Spinoza use all the time and you won't really understand what they are talking about.
Plus, you'll miss all the great natural philosophy arguments that
I have no illusions that any history or summary of philosophy isn't going to be incredibly biased, it's just that when I have read philosophy in the past it's difficult for me to put everything in perspective and there's large swaths of context that I'm missing out on. Like I've read some Descartes and I've read some Spinoza but I don't know anything about who they were. It's not that I want to gloss over a summary and determine I know everything (though this is a very common temptation I have, I'm aware), but I want to have a bigger picture before I dive into any individual details.
As it is, it's like I've read bits of The Republic and some of Aristotle's ethics and meditations on first philosophy and bits of spinoza's ethics and then lots of random essays or excerpts from Popper and Kuhn and Ayer and Quine and Lakatos and Godel and etc, but I don't really have a good grasp of who wrote what when in response to who else.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Who is that video making fun of anyway. One person sounds German and the other person comes off as lazy but also realistic.
Actually, I did know copleston. But it's better as a reference than something you'd read to learn philosophy.
Also, I think the L. thing is totally apropos. His whole theory is that the physical world is this endlessly reducible spiral that eventually is generated from something metaphysical. I suppose it's more "information theory" than string theory, but I used string theory as a buzzword catch-all.
I found a philosophy history book in my house that a previous renter left. Was fairly decent until the author decided to include his own essay on why affirmative action hurts us all and it was the laziest piece of shit thing ever. I have a mind to find the professor that assigned that book and tell them a thing or two.
Actually, I did know copleston. But it's better as a reference than something you'd read to learn philosophy.
If a non-professional wants access to a history of philosophy? I'd say copleston will give them an adequate general overview. It's pretty good as a "here are most of the major texts".
Also, I think the L. thing is totally apropos. His whole theory is that the physical world is this endlessly reducible spiral that eventually is generated from something metaphysical.
It's not a spiral, and it's not endlessly reducible, and it's not a "physical" world, and it's not really generated.
It's just indestructible monads acting in accord with pre-established harmony.
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Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
To be fair, if an english speaker is discussing heidegger, they are probably a critical theorist and COMPLETELY misunderstand heidegger
I stopped discussing Heidegger in public because so many people love to go on an on about being and time and just spew the worst BS that it makes me cringe.
I just tell people I studied Duns Scotus in school.
That's...that's actually fairly sensible.
Plus, you know, Heidegger was a Nazi.
It is! Because then if they actually recognize who Duns Scotus is and go "are you familiar with any Heidegger?" I can go "LOVE ME!"
also, yes he was a Nazi. And it played into his philosophy too!
But he also publicly denounced the anti-Semetic programs (even though he removed the dedication to Husserl) and really thought that the Nazi's would wipe out the old platonic metaphysical program and he would be installed as some sort of High Philosopher of the World and usher in a new metaphysical era.
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I have no illusions that any history or summary of philosophy isn't going to be incredibly biased, it's just that when I have read philosophy in the past it's difficult for me to put everything in perspective and there's large swaths of context that I'm missing out on. Like I've read some Descartes and I've read some Spinoza but I don't know anything about who they were. It's not that I want to gloss over a summary and determine I know everything (though this is a very common temptation I have, I'm aware), but I want to have a bigger picture before I dive into any individual details.
As it is, it's like I've read bits of The Republic and some of Aristotle's ethics and meditations on first philosophy and bits of spinoza's ethics and then lots of random essays or excerpts from Popper and Kuhn and Ayer and Quine and Lakatos and Godel and etc, but I don't really have a good grasp of who wrote what when in response to who else.
If you want the "who wrote what when in response to who else" in a simple, introductory fashion I'd recommend this book: Looking at Philosophy, by Donald Palmer
I think it does a good job of explaining every philosopher in a brief way, and it's organized chronologically so you'll get an idea of how the narrative of Western philosophy works.
_J_ on
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Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
It's not a spiral, and it's not endlessly reducible, and it's not a "physical" world, and it's not really generated.
It's just indestructible monads acting in accord with pre-established harmony.
I disagree. There's a reason that Leibniz invented integral calculus. He was concerned with the infinitely small, how there can be two discrete entities and still space in between. Folds within folds, etc.
I think you are framing Leibniz in a Cartesian manner, which I think is erroneous.
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
Alchemy was fundamental in the creation of chemistry. Doesn't mean we should be studying alchemy, does it?
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
Philosophy of science is a really big important thing
fuck gendered marketing
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
Alchemy was fundamental in the creation of chemistry. Doesn't mean we should be studying alchemy, does it?
Fuck yes we should, I want a sweet pocket watch and some robot limbs.
Besides clues from the PA strip, I didn't even know there was something wrong with ME3's ending. I assume it was tragic, highly unsatisfying for fans, unavoidable, and possibly artsy a la 2010's weird-ass ending.
I gleaned all that from the thread title. The thread title alone has spoiled the game for me.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I've never taken the calculus too seriously.
(Engineering confessional #398)
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
was
not that it isn't still useful
I mean, it still is. Philosophy of mind and neuroscience are inextricably linked at this stage.
I mean, it has really gotten worse and worse since, what with all the dang natural sciences encroaching on introspective reflection as the path to knowledge
for some reason, people keep taking it seriously even without any satisfactory philosophy of science
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
Alchemy was fundamental in the creation of chemistry. Doesn't mean we should be studying alchemy, does it?
It's not a spiral, and it's not endlessly reducible, and it's not a "physical" world, and it's not really generated.
It's just indestructible monads acting in accord with pre-established harmony.
I disagree. There's a reason that Leibniz invented integral calculus. He was concerned with the infinitely small, how there can be two discrete entities and still space in between. Folds within folds, etc.
I think you are framing Leibniz in a Cartesian manner, which I think is erroneous.
I don't know where you're getting "folds within folds". Leibniz was concerned with the problem of the continuum.
Leibniz inherits this wider conception of the continuum problem, and it is the whole cluster of problems concerning infinite divisibility, the actual infinite, the existence of atoms of matter or substance, and the analysis of continuous space, time, and motion to which his characteristic allusions to the "labyrinth of the continuum" refer.(1) Given this complexity it is not at all easy to summarize what Leibniz took his solution to the problem to be. But in broad brush strokes, it involves at least the following: insofar as anything is continuous, its parts are indiscernible from one another, and thus indefinite. The continuum is therefore not an actually existing thing, a whole composed of determinate parts, but an abstract entity. In existing things, by contrast, the parts are determinate, and are prior to any whole that they compose. Matter, for example, considered abstractly (i.e., as primary matter), is a homogeneous, continuous whole, consisting in a pure potentiality for division; but taken concretely (i.e., as secondary matter), it is at any instant not only infinitely divisible, but actually infinitely divided by the differing motions of its parts. Thus no part of matter, however small, remains the same for longer than a moment; even shape or figure is evanescent, and a body with an enduring figure is something imaginary. Similarly, there is no stretch of time, however small, in which some change does not occur. Change, on the other hand, can only be understood in bodies as an aggregate of two opposed states at two contiguous or "indistant" moments; but again nothing can remain in precisely the same state for longer than a moment, so the supposed enduring states of bodies must themselves be to some extent imaginary. Thus the perduring element in matter is not something material, i.e., explicable in terms of the extended, motion and figure. There must, however, be such a perduring element in any part of matter however small, which is the principle of all the changes occurring in it. This immaterial principle, Leibniz concludes, consists in a primitive force of acting. It bestows unity on a substance by taking that thing through all its states in a lawful way: it thus encompasses the laws that govern the series of states of the thing, as well as an endeavor or appetition, taking it into the next state of the series. Finally, this (immaterial) principle of unity of any given substance is the complement of its primitive passive power, or (material) principle of diversity, and substance is constituted by these primitive active and passive powers together.
I would not presume such a highly condensed account to be readily intelligible, and indeed there is much that is missing (such as the whole question of the status of infinitesimals and the calculus, Leibniz's philosophy of the infinite, and the relation of mathematics to reality), but I hope it is enough at least to set the scene, and to give some of the flavor and richness of Leibniz's assault on the continuum problem. Certainly I have no intention of giving a complete account of the latter here. But I hope to say enough to illuminate some of the main turns Leibniz took en route to his own distinctive solution.
As I understand it, his philosophy is about solving the problem of the continuum.
how there can be two discrete entities and still space in between.
There isn't space, for leibniz.
Or, space is "an order according to which situations are disposed, and abstract space is that order of situations, when they are conceived as being possible."
But that's not "space" space.
_J_ on
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
As Organichu knows, antarctic exploration is my favorite metaphor.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
was
not that it isn't still useful
I mean, it still is. Philosophy of mind and neuroscience are inextricably linked at this stage.
We have very different opinions of neuroscience. :P
I mean, it has really gotten worse and worse since, what with all the dang natural sciences encroaching on introspective reflection as the path to knowledge
for some reason, people keep taking it seriously even without any satisfactory philosophy of science
Without a full knowledge of where we are in respect to a philosophy of science, it can be safely assumed we can come to an agreement on the basic notion: science works.
Would magic also work, or pseudoscience, or religion, or whatever the fuck else? That's more complicated.
But science definitely works, so it can be safely assumed that philosophy will have to come up with an explanation that accounts for that.
Posts
for once in my life I actually can't wait to read the NYP
I have no illusions that any history or summary of philosophy isn't going to be incredibly biased, it's just that when I have read philosophy in the past it's difficult for me to put everything in perspective and there's large swaths of context that I'm missing out on. Like I've read some Descartes and I've read some Spinoza but I don't know anything about who they were. It's not that I want to gloss over a summary and determine I know everything (though this is a very common temptation I have, I'm aware), but I want to have a bigger picture before I dive into any individual details.
As it is, it's like I've read bits of The Republic and some of Aristotle's ethics and meditations on first philosophy and bits of spinoza's ethics and then lots of random essays or excerpts from Popper and Kuhn and Ayer and Quine and Lakatos and Godel and etc, but I don't really have a good grasp of who wrote what when in response to who else.
If a non-professional wants access to a history of philosophy? I'd say copleston will give them an adequate general overview. It's pretty good as a "here are most of the major texts".
It's not a spiral, and it's not endlessly reducible, and it's not a "physical" world, and it's not really generated.
It's just indestructible monads acting in accord with pre-established harmony.
It is! Because then if they actually recognize who Duns Scotus is and go "are you familiar with any Heidegger?" I can go "LOVE ME!"
also, yes he was a Nazi. And it played into his philosophy too!
But he also publicly denounced the anti-Semetic programs (even though he removed the dedication to Husserl) and really thought that the Nazi's would wipe out the old platonic metaphysical program and he would be installed as some sort of High Philosopher of the World and usher in a new metaphysical era.
Yeah, he was a twat.
Y'all philosophizers are a bunch of stiff upper lip Brits trying to trudge your horses to the south pole. You will freeze to death on your way. 50 years later, my people will fly in with a B52 and land it on your corpses.
Why?
That way he could throw candy behind kids and at their feet
If you want the "who wrote what when in response to who else" in a simple, introductory fashion I'd recommend this book: Looking at Philosophy, by Donald Palmer
I think it does a good job of explaining every philosopher in a brief way, and it's organized chronologically so you'll get an idea of how the narrative of Western philosophy works.
I disagree. There's a reason that Leibniz invented integral calculus. He was concerned with the infinitely small, how there can be two discrete entities and still space in between. Folds within folds, etc.
I think you are framing Leibniz in a Cartesian manner, which I think is erroneous.
Only you'd never have figured out how to build B52s without philosophers.
Wait, metaphor...mixing...aw fuck it
The point is that, contrary to popular belief, philosophy is fundamental to all science.
What have I DONE. I feel unclean.
not that it isn't still useful
Alchemy was fundamental in the creation of chemistry. Doesn't mean we should be studying alchemy, does it?
Philosophy of science is a really big important thing
Fuck yes we should, I want a sweet pocket watch and some robot limbs.
Besides clues from the PA strip, I didn't even know there was something wrong with ME3's ending. I assume it was tragic, highly unsatisfying for fans, unavoidable, and possibly artsy a la 2010's weird-ass ending.
I gleaned all that from the thread title. The thread title alone has spoiled the game for me.
(Engineering confessional #398)
But ... derivatives!
I mean, it still is. Philosophy of mind and neuroscience are inextricably linked at this stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA9FVi7Cqjc
tell that to ted sider
for some reason, people keep taking it seriously even without any satisfactory philosophy of science
It's a dumb tangent and also answered in about five seconds if you even think about it and realize things like patronage and auction houses exist.
You should, actually.
Geber is the fucking shit
hahahaha
I don't know where you're getting "folds within folds". Leibniz was concerned with the problem of the continuum.
Cohesion, Division and Harmony: Physical Aspects of Leibniz's Continuum Problem (1671-1686):
As I understand it, his philosophy is about solving the problem of the continuum.
Edit:
There isn't space, for leibniz.
Or, space is "an order according to which situations are disposed, and abstract space is that order of situations, when they are conceived as being possible."
But that's not "space" space.
I think 90% of my interest in that video is the music.
I love it
Without a full knowledge of where we are in respect to a philosophy of science, it can be safely assumed we can come to an agreement on the basic notion: science works.
Would magic also work, or pseudoscience, or religion, or whatever the fuck else? That's more complicated.
But science definitely works, so it can be safely assumed that philosophy will have to come up with an explanation that accounts for that.
The smirk never changes.
who the fuck says you can't buy art?