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A Song of Ice and Fire - Here Be Spoilers. Book People! Discuss the TV Show Here!

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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Or just haven't got around to them yet. But they are really minor, so could be.

    It's kind of funny how everyone on the show thread is all "Boobs!" when I think the only scene HBO added was Melisandre. GRRM is writing softcore porn, who knew!

    Well, and the scene with Littlefinger explaining investments to the redhead in the brothel.

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    HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    Ros and the brothel scene were added, and both are taking up way too much time in a season in dire need of as much time as it can get.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Seriously. No more Ros the exposition whore.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Seriously. No more Ros the exposition whore.

    Ros's scene last week was one of the best scenes in either season so far. This week's was admittedly unnecessary other than showing just what a prick Littlefinger is, but I'm not sure why people are suddenly so down on her.

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    HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    Seriously. No more Ros the exposition whore.

    Ros's scene last week was one of the best scenes in either season so far. This week's was admittedly unnecessary other than showing just what a prick Littlefinger is, but I'm not sure why people are suddenly so down on her.

    It's not that she's a terrible character, it's just that we have a lot of other way more interesting characters who need the screentime that she's soaking up for no obvious purpose. Even if she has a season-long arc, it's not worth it.

    And that final scene from last week could have been done without her.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Seriously. No more Ros the exposition whore.

    Ros's scene last week was one of the best scenes in either season so far. This week's was admittedly unnecessary other than showing just what a prick Littlefinger is, but I'm not sure why people are suddenly so down on her.

    It's not exactly sudden.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I actually liked Ros's scene. It's more about Littlefinger than her. People who haven't read the books need to have it reinforced that Littlefinger would sell crippled baby nuns to cannibalistic pediphiles if it gave him an advantage.

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    JinnJinn Registered User regular
    Has there been an explanation of why they changed Asha's name? That really confounded me last night.

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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Because it sounds too similar to Osha.

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    JinnJinn Registered User regular
    That's... kind of dumb. Asha seems to be the more important character, if they were going to change one of the names I'd have picked Osha.

    Oh well.

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    JinnJinn Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they a) made Bronn captain of the guard and b) killed the Bloodrider?

    Didn't Bronn get elevated to a lord much later in the books? Perhaps this is just a convenient acceleration of his ascension?

    Jinn on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Dany walked into a blazing funeral pyre, stayed there for several hours, and then walked away unburnt except for her hair.

    I would call that completely fire resistant.

    What about wildfire? Or dragon's breath? Or molten gold?

    It's those things I wonder about, especially the last two.

    I see no reason to doubt that she's immune to them as well. The whole reason that Targaryens are the only ones capable of riding dragons is their fire immunity, I would assume.

    Then there's a rather large problem. The only person in the series that is established that has fire resistance is Dany. No one else does. If the 'dragon has three heads,' then GRRM needs to either introduce new characters that have it, or somehow give previously introduced characters that ability.

    I think he's done a little from column A and a little from column B.
    I'm thinking Victatarion brings Dany home, and joins her as one rider via the horn, Argon takes the other, then later Vic dies in battle, and John takes his dragon as it was bound to Vic via the horn, and not the dragon's 'life-bond' feature. Perhaps John's wargishness plays a role.

    And by Think, I mean Hope, because Vic is a bad ass, but I also want John up on a dragon and I don't expect Martin to kill Aegon simply because I want him too. And I really want him too, as his claim to succession is better than the Mother of Dragons and that ain't right.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they a) made Bronn captain of the guard and b) killed the Bloodrider?

    Didn't Bronn get elevated to a lord much later in the books? Perhaps this is just a convenient acceleration of his ascension?

    That all happened in the book with Bronn I believe. Though I haven't watched this weeks episode but I remember Tyrion sent Janos Slynt to the wall and put Bronn in charge so he'd have some control over the place.

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    WappaduWappadu Registered User regular
    Re: Targaryen fire immunity, Viserys died to molten gold before the dragons hatched and a lot of characters seem to associate the return of dragons with that of magic. I don't recall when
    Jon got burned, but even if it was after they hatched, Martin could handwave that as either not being reborn just yet or no proximity to the dragons or The Wall's innate properties somehow interfering.

    Did anyone pay close attention to Aegon chapters in DWD to see if there are hints of unique Targaryeness?

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they a) made Bronn captain of the guard and b) killed the Bloodrider?

    Didn't Bronn get elevated to a lord much later in the books? Perhaps this is just a convenient acceleration of his ascension?

    I presume the latter, to reduce the number of Kettleblacks that new viewers need to keep track of. However he could still get demoted in favor of a Kettleblack later on.

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    JinnJinn Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Dany walked into a blazing funeral pyre, stayed there for several hours, and then walked away unburnt except for her hair.

    I would call that completely fire resistant.

    What about wildfire? Or dragon's breath? Or molten gold?

    It's those things I wonder about, especially the last two.

    I see no reason to doubt that she's immune to them as well. The whole reason that Targaryens are the only ones capable of riding dragons is their fire immunity, I would assume.

    Then there's a rather large problem. The only person in the series that is established that has fire resistance is Dany. No one else does. If the 'dragon has three heads,' then GRRM needs to either introduce new characters that have it, or somehow give previously introduced characters that ability.

    I think he's done a little from column A and a little from column B.
    I'm thinking Victatarion brings Dany home, and joins her as one rider via the horn, Argon takes the other, then later Vic dies in battle, and John takes his dragon as it was bound to Vic via the horn, and not the dragon's 'life-bond' feature. Perhaps John's wargishness plays a role.

    And by Think, I mean Hope, because Vic is a bad ass, but I also want John up on a dragon and I don't expect Martin to kill Aegon simply because I want him too. And I really want him too, as his claim to succession is better than the Mother of Dragons and that ain't right.
    Victarion and the horn:
    Doesn't the horn kill whoever blows it by burning? In which case the problem remains because Dany is the only one we know could survive.

    edit: Also, what are the chances the horn Sam has is also a dragon-taming horn? You could conceivably bring down the wall with some dragon fire.

    Jinn on
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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they b) killed the Bloodrider?

    The actor for Rhakaro was cast in World War Z which is/was filming at the same time. Kavarro was cast just before season 2 began filming so it is looking like he will become the main bloodrider interacting with Dany and Jorah.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Jinn wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    saggio wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Dany walked into a blazing funeral pyre, stayed there for several hours, and then walked away unburnt except for her hair.

    I would call that completely fire resistant.

    What about wildfire? Or dragon's breath? Or molten gold?

    It's those things I wonder about, especially the last two.

    I see no reason to doubt that she's immune to them as well. The whole reason that Targaryens are the only ones capable of riding dragons is their fire immunity, I would assume.

    Then there's a rather large problem. The only person in the series that is established that has fire resistance is Dany. No one else does. If the 'dragon has three heads,' then GRRM needs to either introduce new characters that have it, or somehow give previously introduced characters that ability.

    I think he's done a little from column A and a little from column B.
    I'm thinking Victatarion brings Dany home, and joins her as one rider via the horn, Argon takes the other, then later Vic dies in battle, and John takes his dragon as it was bound to Vic via the horn, and not the dragon's 'life-bond' feature. Perhaps John's wargishness plays a role.

    And by Think, I mean Hope, because Vic is a bad ass, but I also want John up on a dragon and I don't expect Martin to kill Aegon simply because I want him too. And I really want him too, as his claim to succession is better than the Mother of Dragons and that ain't right.
    Victarion and the horn:
    Doesn't the horn kill whoever blows it by burning? In which case the problem remains because Dany is the only one we know could survive.

    edit: Also, what are the chances the horn Sam has is also a dragon-taming horn? You could conceivably bring down the wall with some dragon fire.
    I 'm hoping that either:

    A) Vic's been Rhlorized, fire-horn won't hurt him

    B) Dany uses the horn to grant Vic a dragon, but ensure his loyalty as the dragon is ultimately enthralled by her.

    However, if Dany returns with Khal Pono's (?) Khallasar under her command, she might not need Vic to break the yunkish siege, which could make them enemies. She'll still need his ships, but she doesn't need him to be alive when she takes them. Which would be too bad because I wanted Vic to bathe Euron in dragonfire.

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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Allforce wrote: »
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they a) made Bronn captain of the guard and b) killed the Bloodrider?

    Didn't Bronn get elevated to a lord much later in the books? Perhaps this is just a convenient acceleration of his ascension?

    That all happened in the book with Bronn I believe. Though I haven't watched this weeks episode but I remember Tyrion sent Janos Slynt to the wall and put Bronn in charge so he'd have some control over the place.

    In the book Captain of the Guard is given to Bywater, giving it to Bronn is probably just another way to trim the number of characters down seeing how Bywater dies in CoK anyways.

    Edit: I found that Balon was cast perfectly, the entire Greyjoy stuff was great, Theon being late on the "What is dead may never die", Asha looked the part quite well, this seems to be a complaint from a lot of readers though, but she's from the Iron Islands, everyone there has a more average look to them than Winterfell and by far more average than King's Landing women. Best line of the episode though came from Balon "my son will not dress like a whore!"

    Myiagros on
    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Myiagros wrote: »
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they b) killed the Bloodrider?

    The actor for Rhakaro was cast in World War Z which is/was filming at the same time. Kavarro was cast just before season 2 began filming so it is looking like he will become the main bloodrider interacting with Dany and Jorah.

    His name is Jhogo! /grumble

    I like that this happened though. In the book I didn't really get the impression that the other Khals were hot on her heels, they always seemed so far away after GoT. They would talk about them, but I never felt them being a real threat after they entered the red wastes.

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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Regarding deaths:
    There's a lot of deaths, yes, but very little among POV characters. Martin grew way too fond of "fake deaths", or "cliffhanger deaths" that obviously aren't real, in aDwD. How many did we have again?
    -Brienne
    -Davos
    -Stannis
    -Jon

    It's getting kind of ridiculous, and very annoying, seeing as we won't have the next book for about four years.

    Your forgot
    Tyrion drowning.

    Seriously, not only every book, but then for a while in ADwD almost every chapter ended with a fake death of a main character. If a book and/or chapter ends with what appears to be a death, but no verification of a death, then it is virtually guaranteed that it is not a death. And even in the case of real deaths, we have at least two or three kinds of resurrection/walking dead that we know of that can occur.

    GONG-00 wrote: »
    I would argue Sansa stopped being a Stark when she sided against her family. Lady’s death was the result of her lying.

    Definitely. Those wolves were a gift from the gods, to the Starks, to help keep their pack strong and what-not. When Sansa lied and took Joff's side over her own sister, the gods took back her wolf and gave her the full measure of the side she chose in the form of Joff's cruelty.

    saggio wrote: »
    7. A lot of people assume that the Prince Who Was Promised is the same as Azhor Ahai Reborn. I'm not so sure. It could very well be the case that Aegon is the Prime Who Was Promised (or even Dany) and that Jon Snow is Azhor Ahai Reborn; Dany is the Stormborn, and she hatched the dragons, but not with the salt and the smoke and whatever else that is required in the Azhor Ahai prophecy that I forget. But Jon Snow was killed with those things present, and if Melisandre gives him the kiss of life (almost certainly) he could very well be reborn. So if that happens, he'll be a Targaryen that was reborn...who has a Valyrian steel blade...who can warg already...

    Eh, Dany hacthed the dragons amidst smoke and salt and a bleeding star and the blood of a king.

    Eupfhoria wrote: »
    it's been about 7 years since I read Clash of Kings, so I thought I'd ask this in regards to Ep. 2 of the show:
    was there any indication in the books that Stannis was fucking Melisandre? Because I don't remember that...seems really out of character

    Yes but IIRC it was implied that he was hypnotized and not fully aware that it was going on.

    Also, Vic and the horn:
    Victarian's red wizard has already told him that the dragon is bound to the owner of the horn, not necessarily the person who blows it.

    Yar on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    It didn't seem very Stanis to just throw Mel a bone like that. I always imagined him having sex with her out of some grim sense of duty for whatever rites she claimed it was necessary for; not just to have a son. Nor would I expect Mel to seduce him merely to manipulate him. Maybe that's because we won't have Selese pushing Stanis to follow the Lord of Light, so it will be easier for the viewer to understand his conversion via Mel's appeal to his baser instincts? I can't say I prefer it this way.

    Back to Stannis: Perhaps since they've unmade his daughter he feels that Selese is in breech of contract? Otherwise I can't make that scene jive with my picture of Stanis.

    [e] Horn:
    Ok, cool. Thought I was imagining that. And that means he could just TAKE one, securing his place at Danys side and in my heart.

    If not at her side, then we should get a nice dragon battle over Mereen; which might make me just as happy.

    [e2]Wait a damned minute...
    Does that mean Euron would control the dragon not Viccy? Of course it does... their history is defined by Euron outsmarting and generally fucking his bigger, slower brother over.

    Well played, Martin. You mean old bastard, you.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Having Bronn be captain of the guards is really a pretty smart thing to change, most of Tyrion's conversations about preparations for defending the city end up being with him anyway, and Bywater died in the battle. Now instead they can just have Tywin promote him out of the position, and everyone ends up in exactly the same places they were in the books anyway.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    JakorianJakorian Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    It didn't seem very Stanis to just throw Mel a bone like that. I always imagined him having sex with her out of some grim sense of duty for whatever rites she claimed it was necessary for; not just to have a son. Nor would I expect Mel to seduce him merely to manipulate him. Maybe that's because we won't have Selese pushing Stanis to follow the Lord of Light, so it will be easier for the viewer to understand his conversion via Mel's appeal to his baser instincts? I can't say I prefer it this way.

    This was my major problem with last nights episode. It was basically
    "do it"
    "no"
    "yes"
    "ok"
    It felt like it was missing Stannis's stubborness which is his defining trait.

    Jakorian on
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Having Bronn be captain of the guards is really a pretty smart thing to change, most of Tyrion's conversations about preparations for defending the city end up being with him anyway, and Bywater died in the battle. Now instead they can just have Tywin promote him out of the position, and everyone ends up in exactly the same places they were in the books anyway.

    Plus we don't have Bron organizing a mercenary army of hill people, that Tyrion, sadly, seems to not have brought, and we have him organizing the gold cloaks instead.

    I'm going to be a little disappointed in Tyrion's attendants when comes time to shave Pycell.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Tyrion brought them, you could see a few hill tribes types in his retinue when he's greeting Joffrey

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    [e2]Wait a damned minute...
    Does that mean Euron would control the dragon not Viccy? Of course it does... their history is defined by Euron outsmarting and generally fucking his bigger, slower brother over.

    Well played, Martin. You mean old bastard, you.

    Possibly, but at the end of ADwD, it is implied that
    Vic is about to perform some sort of blood ritual that binds ownership of the horn to him.

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    DomhnallDomhnall Minty D. Vision! ScotlandRegistered User regular
    First off my internet is being all crappy so if one of you guys could remake the book thread I'd be very grateful.

    Also my word they've changed quite a bit. I actually thought at the end that Jon Snow was in trouble. And Princess Greyscale doesn't exist anymore. Gonna be fun watching this with my girlfriend once the entire season is done. Can't say I like the changes. I understand a lot of them but there's some I just still don't like. It lets me kinda enjoy it seperately though, which is nice. A bit like how with the film and comics of Scott Pilgrim. I get twice the Scott Pilgrim/GoT which is fine with me.

    Xbox Live - Minty D Vision
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    InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    I'm not really keen on the changes they've made. I'll have to see how they play out over the season.

    Though unlikely, I don't think they (at least inside the series, they may have confirmed it outside) ruled out Princess Greyscale. I was listening to see if they would during Melisandre's speech and she only says "heirs" and "sons." At least my hope is that they haven't because I want Patchface.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    I'd only want Patchface so I can hear what the rhythm/meter is supposed to be for his "songs"

    Otherwise I don't think the pairs could add all that much to the show. Greyscale can be introduced much later with no harm done.

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    YarYar Registered User regular
    Roy Dotrice did an excellent job with Patchface rhythm in Book 2, but then fucked it all up (along with a lot of other things he fucked up) in Book 5.

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    Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Allforce wrote: »
    Jinn wrote: »
    Also, anyone have any compelling speculation as to why they a) made Bronn captain of the guard and b) killed the Bloodrider?

    Didn't Bronn get elevated to a lord much later in the books? Perhaps this is just a convenient acceleration of his ascension?

    That all happened in the book with Bronn I believe. Though I haven't watched this weeks episode but I remember Tyrion sent Janos Slynt to the wall and put Bronn in charge so he'd have some control over the place.
    Didn't he put Ironhand in charge at this point, and set Bronn to the task of recruiting sellswords and guardsmen who didn't suck?

    Edit: so late to this party

    Apothe0sis on
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Random TV thought:

    Tyrion was whistling the tune to an unknown song in two different scenes. How much you want to bet it's the tune to The Rains of Castemere?

    Or The Seasons of My Love, I suppose, but I would guess if they introduce any single song it would be Castamere.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Random TV thought:

    Tyrion was whistling the tune to an unknown song in two different scenes. How much you want to bet it's the tune to The Rains of Castemere?

    Or The Seasons of My Love, I suppose, but I would guess if they introduce any single song it would be Castamere.

    That would be pretty cool, I'm waiting to see how or if they manage to make that song clearly recognizable to the viewers.

    I can kind of match it up to the Castamere lyrics, as the whole song could be broken up into little 4-4-6 sets:

    And so he spoke, and so he spoke
    (1 - 2 - 3 - 4), (1 - 2 - 3 - 4)
    That lord of Castamere
    (1 - 2- 3- 4- 5- 6)

    And he's whistling 4 and 6... syllable(? I'm not a music guy) sets, just not strictly in that order.
    ?-4-4-4-6-6 is what I can make out. The ? sounds like the 6 pattern, but missing the last note.

    4-4-6-6 could match the end assuming he just repeats the last line, but it could also just be chalked up to him idly whistling.

    I should find more productive ways to spend my time.

    [e]I think I'll blame Yar, since he caused me to reread the last few chapters of DwD and now I can't sleep.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    If it is a planned introduction, I'd assume that his whistling (he did it once last scene, as well) when he walks into the room could provide Shae with an opportunity to ask "so what is that you're always whistling, anyway?" and it would allow him to launch into an explanation about the history of the song, and perhaps sing it - so viewers could both recognize its lyrics and also its meaning.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    I think the whistling is just more of Tyrion's constant showmanship for the sake of the world at large. He whistles loudly without a care, he talks loudly, he over-enunciates, he's shameless in his gluttony, and he takes ownership of his insulting nickname. He wants everyone to know how confident he is and exactly how many shits he gives about your opinion about it (zero).

    Then you put him in a room with Tywin and that all goes away.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    That would be a pretty good setup. Could work for Seasons of my Love as well, but I suppose he already told Shae about Tysha.

    Unrelated:
    Sallador Saan to Devan: "You don't know how persuasive I am, I've never tried to fuck you"

    Is my favorite new dialogue of the last episode.

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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    i also forgot to mention i'm so excited for our hardcore criminals in a box
    especially biter, and jaqen who is like some kind of criminal underwear model or something

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Okay, new theory. At least, I've never seen it before. Spoilers for all of book 5.
    If R+L=J is true, then Jon is a Targ. Possibly even a legitimate one.

    When Mel was looking for the Prince Who Was Promised, she only ever saw Jon's face. Not Jon's and Dany's, or Jon's and Dany's and Aegon's, just Jon.

    Assuming Jon is brought back by Mel, that may count as a death to get him out of the Night's Watch. He can marry, hold lands and titles, have kids, etc.

    If Dany was bleeding not because her womb started working again but because she had the bloody flux, she still can't have children. She can't carry on the Targ line with her husband(s).

    So, what if Dany becomes Nissa Nissa in the story, offering up her life to forge Lightbringer?

    Shadowen on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Okay, new theory. At least, I've never seen it before. Spoilers for all of book 5.
    If R+L=J is true, then Jon is a Targ. Possibly even a legitimate one.

    When Mel was looking for the Prince Who Was Promised, she only ever saw Jon's face. Not Jon's and Dany's, or Jon's and Dany's and Aegon's, just Jon.

    Assuming Jon is brought back by Mel, that may count as a death to get him out of the Night's Watch. He can marry, hold lands and titles, have kids, etc.

    If Dany was bleeding not because her womb started working again but because she had the bloody flux, she still can't have children. She can't carry on the Targ line with her husband(s).

    So, what if Dany becomes Nissa Nissa in the story, offering up her life to forge Lightbringer?

    ...huh. Interesting. Not really sure I see GRRM going that way, but interesting.

This discussion has been closed.