Yeah remember that initially Roose is a good-guy of sorts in the books. Robb doesn't fully trust him, but relies on him and his cunning to achieve victory. It's only later that Roose becomes vaguely evil, and of course it's his son that is a damn monster.
I would assume books 3 - 4 would be split into 2 seasons at least.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I stand by my theory that this show will last about four seasons.
I am halfway through book 4, and while I would love to see them take this all the way, many of the biggest and most important plots get a decent resolution at the end of the 3rd book.
It would such to not see some of the later stuff with Dany and The Walkers, but the
MAJOR BOOK 3 SPOILERS
Big Littlefinger reveal regarding his plan, the death of Tywin, the death of Joffrey, Sam growing a major pair and all the other crazy shit that happens in the bottom half of book 3, coupled with Dany choosing to stay in the east and rule as a queen
could create enough of a resolution for people to feel somewhat satisfied. I mean, will they be able to keep this cast together for 9-10 years and have it make any sense? These kids are growing up fast and GRRM is still two books out from being finished.
If they don't break at Season 4/book 3, what is the next acceptable break point they can go with aside from finishing the whole thing?
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I stand by my theory that this show will last about four seasons.
I am halfway through book 4, and while I would love to see them take this all the way, many of the biggest and most important plots get a decent resolution at the end of the 3rd book.
It would such to not see some of the later stuff with Dany and The Walkers, but the
MAJOR BOOK 3 SPOILERS
Big Littlefinger reveal regarding his plan, the death of Tywin, the death of Joffrey, Sam growing a major pair and all the other crazy shit that happens in the bottom half of book 3, coupled with Dany choosing to stay in the east and rule as a queen
could create enough of a resolution for people to feel somewhat satisfied. I mean, will they be able to keep this cast together for 9-10 years and have it make any sense? These kids are growing up fast and GRRM is still two books out from being finished.
If they don't break at Season 4/book 3, what is the next acceptable break point they can go with aside from finishing the whole thing?
Well, the showrunners pretty much said they were in it for the long haul, and I could see them sticking to that, as long as it remains popular (doing True Blood numbers or better). HBO learned with Deadwood and Rome that cancelling cult status shows early earns them a lot of bad blood with fans, and that's a big deal for a company that relies on subscriptions.
Now, I could see the numbers knocking off after Season 4 for a variety of reasons, which may lead to what you're talking about, but keep in mind that each season's DVDs will sell like gangbusters, and gearing up for a new show probably has significant start-up costs; they may see just continuing with the proven winner to be most advantagious.
And who knows, maybe in 6 years, when the current material is exhausted on the show the next book will be out.
I have a hard time believing fans will be satisfied enough to walk away after SoS. The TV crowd should be enthralled by the same things that kept us reading, especially without having endured the pain of actually reading through the slow bits.
I have a hard time believing fans will be satisfied enough to walk away after SoS. The TV crowd should be enthralled by the same things that kept us reading, especially without having endured the pain of actually reading through the slow bits.
TV: wherein the entirety of A Feast For Crows is compressed into 4.5 episodes.
(Of course, someone will always demand more screentime for Pate.)
I agree with some of the people in the show-only thread - they really didn't do a good job of explaining what the hell Davos was doing with Mel.
That's because they took a scene from way later in the book and randomly dropped it into the middle of Season 2. I guess they're skipping the (non-)siege of Storm's End, and wanted to get the shadow-birthing thing out there for Renly.
Storm's End is pretty much a throw away locale until MAYBE the epilogue of DwD where they discuss a possible need to retake it, eventually. Everything that goes down there (leeches, prisoners, etc) could be done at Dragonstone.
Storm's End is pretty much a throw away locale until MAYBE the epilogue of DwD where they discuss a possible need to retake it, eventually. Everything that goes down there (leeches, prisoners, etc) could be done at Dragonstone.
I don't recall Stannis ever taking up residence at Storm's End.
The scene with the leeches happens at Dragonstone.
I thought he moved in there when he took it to keep Robert 's bastard close at hand, and because it was better located to attack King's Landing?
He moved there because it was his by right.
It's another one of those "indicative of his character" things. He was the second son. When Robert became king, it should have been given to him by birthright, particularly since he was the one who held out during the siege during Robert's Rebellion. Robert, however, gave it to the more loved son, Renly, and gave Stannis Dragonstone. Stannis did not have the soldiers, nor the power to hold King's Landing should he take it, so he first sought to consolidate the powers which were opposing the Lannisters in the South behind him, as well as "taking what should have been his."
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I could have done without the moderately cheesy special effects when giving birth to the shadow assassin. I don't remember how explicitly it was described in the books, but I was thinking more evil silhouette and less smoke monster. If the TV series goes too fantastical, it's going to lose a lot of crossover viewers who were probably rolling their eyes last night.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
I could have done without the moderately cheesy special effects when giving birth to the shadow assassin. I don't remember how explicitly it was described in the books, but I was thinking more evil silhouette and less smoke monster. If the TV series goes too fantastical, it's going to lose a lot of crossover viewers who were probably rolling their eyes last night.
It was pretty clearly described in the book... Black tendrils, smoky, looked like
stannis
, the whole thing.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I agree with some of the people in the show-only thread - they really didn't do a good job of explaining what the hell Davos was doing with Mel.
That's because they took a scene from way later in the book and randomly dropped it into the middle of Season 2. I guess they're skipping the (non-)siege of Storm's End, and wanted to get the shadow-birthing thing out there for Renly.
Yeah, that's what I wish I could go tell some of them in the show-only thread. That scene was straight from the book, but in the book it made more sense, because it added clarifying detail to a previous event (Renly). But, in the show, that previous event hasn't happened yet, and no one knows or understands where Davos and Mel are and what they are supposed to be doing, so the birth of a shadow demon is kind of a big "eh, whaaa?"
That scene only works as a show-ending cliff-hanger if you already know about a mysterious shadow demon working for Stannis, and are wondering exactly how it came to be. Then it would still work as an awesome scene.
I could have done without the moderately cheesy special effects when giving birth to the shadow assassin. I don't remember how explicitly it was described in the books, but I was thinking more evil silhouette and less smoke monster. If the TV series goes too fantastical, it's going to lose a lot of crossover viewers who were probably rolling their eyes last night.
It was pretty clearly described in the book... Black tendrils, smoky, looked like
stannis
, the whole thing.
Eh...
Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child’s head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre’s straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world and rose taller than Davos, tall as the tunnel, towering above the boat. He had only an instant to look at it before it was gone, twisting between the bars of the portcullis and racing across the surface of the water, but that instant was long enough.
Not very explicit, but the show does justice to "coiling" and "grasping", even if the final form looked more like a skeleton than a shadow.
After this chapter, Stannis begins marching on King's Landing. When he's defeated on the Blackwater, he returns to Dragonstone. At least, Davos finds him there at the beginning of A Storm of Swords.
Which they are. And a lot of Bran's Hodoring is late in ADwD, so if they're just making those two books into two seasons, he'll be... damn, big.
They set up that special saddle and didn't do much with it in the books. So they can just have him escape using that and a horse, to spare the back of the actor that plays Hodor.
Which they are. And a lot of Bran's Hodoring is late in ADwD, so if they're just making those two books into two seasons, he'll be... damn, big.
They set up that special saddle and didn't do much with it in the books. So they can just have him escape using that and a horse, to spare the back of the actor that plays Hodor.
suppose they ride Cold Hands's elk for an extended period north of the wall as well. The only mandatory Hodoring is going to be scrambling up the hill to the greenseers cave.
Many of Bran's scenes are stationary with short range Hodoring. Just hope Bran's parents aren't unusually tall.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
The smartest way to do the Bran stuff is to budget it into earlier seasons. Shoot all the travel stuff while making season 2 or 3, when he's still the age he's now. When he gets to his destination, he pretty much just sits in one place.
The smartest way to do the Bran stuff is to budget it into earlier seasons. Shoot all the travel stuff while making season 2 or 3, when he's still the age he's now. When he gets to his destination, he pretty much just sits in one place.
A good idea, but not necessarally practical. Time is still passing for everyone else, too, and it'd be pretty incongruous if Arya looked like a teenager (too late) and Bran still looked like a kid.
What they'll do is basically what they already do with horses. The guy who plays Robb did an interview with HitFix yesterday (it's linked somewhere in the show thread if you're curious) and points out that you will never seen someone in armor and what not get on a horse in this series, because they can't make it look even vaguely right. It's just implied that it's been done. Something similar will be done with poor Hodor.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I personally think the issue of actors getting older won't make one iota of difference, the show has thus far been very good at adaptation - for instance, as I am reading through the books again recently, when Joffery is introduced, his description is of a tall guy. The show does not have Joff being that tall really and so far, it hasn't mattered one bit, Joff is still a character you know has earned his demise. As far as I am concerned, its a bonus for the show, the actors getting older, taller, physically filling out shows the passage of time in a way that I think benefits the show - in a lot of ways the show with its one thing after the other you can get the impression these things are all taking place within days of each other but the teens and kids aging goes "Nope, that was months, maybe even years - that's right, let it sink in, those people where on the road or in that desert or sailing for quite a while". I especially like the aging in Arya's case, I think being older will help with some of her character's development in the later books and how she will end up with different disguises / alter egos possibly because of it.
GRRM has commented before that he wished he made the kids older in the books. I've always assumed that they'll just continue to play the kids as older. I don't think it will matter much. Arya will be a full-blown teenager as she trains to be an assassin. Bran will be one too as he learns to be a tree or whatever. Doesn't matter for anyone else. So what?
Yeah, I don't have an issue with it at all as far as story goes. I do see the filmability issues when the kid playing Bran hits his growth spurt. I feel bad for poor Hodor's back, if they go that route. But I kind of expect them to handwave it away or just give him a damn horse.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I suppose Hodor's a big enough boy, however Bran turns out. He could probably sling Jaime over his shoulders for the purposes of filming, if he had to. Once Bran's up, he just going to be a heavy backpack.
I loved how Tywin pretty much instantly made Arya for a girl.
It was getting hard to hide, honestly.
Puberty is going to be a real bastard to the show-runners. What happens if Bran's actor gets too big for Hodor to Hodor around?
Unlikely. Kristian Nairn (Hodor) is in his 30s and is 6'11". Greg Davies, in this clip, is similarly built, "only" 6'8", and in his 40s. (For comparison, Russell Howard, the man lifted up like a baby by that giant man, is 5'11", and unless Isaac Hempstead-Wright goes through a massive growth spurt, he's unlikely to end up taller.) Granted, it might be awkward to do the "on the back" thing after a while...
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It was getting hard to hide, honestly.
Puberty is going to be a real bastard to the show-runners. What happens if Bran's actor gets too big for Hodor to Hodor around? Are they Hodor'd?
Which they are. And a lot of Bran's Hodoring is late in ADwD, so if they're just making those two books into two seasons, he'll be... damn, big.
I am halfway through book 4, and while I would love to see them take this all the way, many of the biggest and most important plots get a decent resolution at the end of the 3rd book.
It would such to not see some of the later stuff with Dany and The Walkers, but the
MAJOR BOOK 3 SPOILERS
could create enough of a resolution for people to feel somewhat satisfied. I mean, will they be able to keep this cast together for 9-10 years and have it make any sense? These kids are growing up fast and GRRM is still two books out from being finished.
If they don't break at Season 4/book 3, what is the next acceptable break point they can go with aside from finishing the whole thing?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Well, the showrunners pretty much said they were in it for the long haul, and I could see them sticking to that, as long as it remains popular (doing True Blood numbers or better). HBO learned with Deadwood and Rome that cancelling cult status shows early earns them a lot of bad blood with fans, and that's a big deal for a company that relies on subscriptions.
Now, I could see the numbers knocking off after Season 4 for a variety of reasons, which may lead to what you're talking about, but keep in mind that each season's DVDs will sell like gangbusters, and gearing up for a new show probably has significant start-up costs; they may see just continuing with the proven winner to be most advantagious.
And who knows, maybe in 6 years, when the current material is exhausted on the show the next book will be out.
TV: wherein the entirety of A Feast For Crows is compressed into 4.5 episodes.
(Of course, someone will always demand more screentime for Pate.)
That's because they took a scene from way later in the book and randomly dropped it into the middle of Season 2. I guess they're skipping the (non-)siege of Storm's End, and wanted to get the shadow-birthing thing out there for Renly.
I don't recall Stannis ever taking up residence at Storm's End.
The scene with the leeches happens at Dragonstone.
It's another one of those "indicative of his character" things. He was the second son. When Robert became king, it should have been given to him by birthright, particularly since he was the one who held out during the siege during Robert's Rebellion. Robert, however, gave it to the more loved son, Renly, and gave Stannis Dragonstone. Stannis did not have the soldiers, nor the power to hold King's Landing should he take it, so he first sought to consolidate the powers which were opposing the Lannisters in the South behind him, as well as "taking what should have been his."
edit: Oh fuck Harenhall looks badass.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
That should be in the next episode or so, if they do it.
Edit: No it won't, I'm forgetting literally everything else that happens in Qarth.
Yeah, that's what I wish I could go tell some of them in the show-only thread. That scene was straight from the book, but in the book it made more sense, because it added clarifying detail to a previous event (Renly). But, in the show, that previous event hasn't happened yet, and no one knows or understands where Davos and Mel are and what they are supposed to be doing, so the birth of a shadow demon is kind of a big "eh, whaaa?"
That scene only works as a show-ending cliff-hanger if you already know about a mysterious shadow demon working for Stannis, and are wondering exactly how it came to be. Then it would still work as an awesome scene.
Eh...
Not very explicit, but the show does justice to "coiling" and "grasping", even if the final form looked more like a skeleton than a shadow.
After this chapter, Stannis begins marching on King's Landing. When he's defeated on the Blackwater, he returns to Dragonstone. At least, Davos finds him there at the beginning of A Storm of Swords.
They set up that special saddle and didn't do much with it in the books. So they can just have him escape using that and a horse, to spare the back of the actor that plays Hodor.
Many of Bran's scenes are stationary with short range Hodoring. Just hope Bran's parents aren't unusually tall.
A good idea, but not necessarally practical. Time is still passing for everyone else, too, and it'd be pretty incongruous if Arya looked like a teenager (too late) and Bran still looked like a kid.
He could still
What is the thing that was given birth to? That came out of nowhere for me.
Spoiler it if you must, I'm very curious!
Semi-spoiler:
Vague actual spoiler:
For reals spoiler:
Bought all the books for a friends birthday just this saturday, that must have been close to half a meter of pages!
Unlikely. Kristian Nairn (Hodor) is in his 30s and is 6'11". Greg Davies, in this clip, is similarly built, "only" 6'8", and in his 40s. (For comparison, Russell Howard, the man lifted up like a baby by that giant man, is 5'11", and unless Isaac Hempstead-Wright goes through a massive growth spurt, he's unlikely to end up taller.) Granted, it might be awkward to do the "on the back" thing after a while...