I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
Exactly. But it also is not (so far) the main thrust of the series that Bruce Wayne should give all this money to the GCPD and sit quietly at home.
True. In Nolan's universe Batman has a reason to stay around. Without him Gotham wouldn't have survived Begins, never mind dealing with the Joker.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
We're starting to see some attempts at deconstruction now, although everyone seems way to taken with self-referential humour as false deconstruction to try really taking the stuff apart.
While I would say the real era of deconstruction started around the time Watchmen and DKR came out, I agree that a lot of the late-80s/early-90s self-referential stuff rang pretty false because it was little more than a bunch of neckbeards figuring out that they were all just a bunch of neckbeards and hahaisn'tbreakingthefourthwallfunny?
It is cyclical, and the cycles are going to be faster and faster, but I hope the era of comics when childishly grimdark books like The Crow and The Mask are big sellers are long behind us.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Behemoth on
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Fairly certain he does. They just haven't shown this in the Nolan films (because, frankly, it hasn't fit in)
We're starting to see some attempts at deconstruction now, although everyone seems way to taken with self-referential humour as false deconstruction to try really taking the stuff apart.
While I would say the real era of deconstruction started around the time Watchmen and DKR came out, I agree that a lot of the late-80s/early-90s self-referential stuff rang pretty false because it was little more than a bunch of neckbeards figuring out that they were all just a bunch of neckbeards and hahaisn'tbreakingthefourthwallfunny?
It is cyclical, and the cycles are going to be faster and faster, but I hope the era of comics when childishly grimdark books like The Crow and The Mask are big sellers are long behind us.
I think we have slightly different chronologies.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I'm sure the next reboot will be lighter in tone than Nolan's.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
And frankly, the sorts of problems Gotham has wouldn't be solved by a fleet of SWAT trucks and some new bullets.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
And I don't see him having helped them at all, being as they're markedly outclassed in pretty much every single encounter.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Sigh.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't really want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
It is a nice touch. I really engaged with the way that Bruce had such high hopes for Harvey being successful so he could just stop all this silly shit and go live his life.
But I love Bale's Bruce Wayne anyway. He always has this little bit of sadness and detachedness within him, like he's never going to be fixed after being so broken and this is the only thing he knows to do to make it better. You really see it more in TDK than in Begins, but even as Batman you can feel his loathing for himself and the city he's trying to salvage.
He's the first Batman to really hate being Batman and hate living in a world that needs Batman, and that's really dynamic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
What? I was exaggerating to make a point, but there's really no need for a scene where Bruce gives the chief of police a big check. There's every indication in the films that Gotham PD is well-equipped and well-trained, but suffer from corruption and facing against a class of criminal they can't deal with. Not because he has better guns or superpowers, but because he's out-planning them. Because it's a superhero movie about a man doing what the cops can't, not just because they don't have the money, but because it's simply not their role in society.
It's like you didn't see the same movie! I mean, it's fascinating that you can come away with such different impressions, but I really don't get it.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't really want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
It is a nice touch. I really engaged with the way that Bruce had such high hopes for Harvey being successful so he could just stop all this silly shit and go live his life.
But I love Bale's Bruce Wayne anyway. He always has this little bit of sadness and detachedness within him, like he's never going to be fixed after being so broken and this is the only thing he knows to do to make it better. You really see it more in TDK than in Begins, but even as Batman you can feel his loathing for himself and the city he's trying to salvage.
He's the first Batman to really hate being Batman and hate living in a world that needs Batman, and that's really dynamic.
Indeed, it's why this version has beaten out BTAS on my list of best Batmans.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
It also wouldn't be very effective.
Also that after hours video about Batman was pretty inaccurate in an attempt to be humorous.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Mad King George,
What makes you think GCPD is underfunded (anymore than say the NYPD or Chicago PD are)? They don't have the tank that Bruce stole from his company, but again Gotham's problems can't really be solved by throwing money at the police department.
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't really want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
It is a nice touch. I really engaged with the way that Bruce had such high hopes for Harvey being successful so he could just stop all this silly shit and go live his life.
But I love Bale's Bruce Wayne anyway. He always has this little bit of sadness and detachedness within him, like he's never going to be fixed after being so broken and this is the only thing he knows to do to make it better. You really see it more in TDK than in Begins, but even as Batman you can feel his loathing for himself and the city he's trying to salvage.
He's the first Batman to really hate being Batman and hate living in a world that needs Batman, and that's really dynamic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
What? I was exaggerating to make a point, but there's really no need for a scene where Bruce gives the chief of police a big check. There's every indication in the films that Gotham PD is well-equipped and well-trained, but suffer from corruption and facing against a class of criminal they can't deal with. Not because he has better guns or superpowers, but because he's out-planning them. Because it's a superhero movie about a man doing what the cops can't, not just because they don't have the money, but because it's simply not their role in society.
It's like you didn't see the same movie! I mean, it's fascinating that you can come away with such different impressions, but I really don't get it.
And yet Cracked.com did a whole thing on it which I wasn't even aware of. So I can't be only one...
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't really want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
It is a nice touch. I really engaged with the way that Bruce had such high hopes for Harvey being successful so he could just stop all this silly shit and go live his life.
But I love Bale's Bruce Wayne anyway. He always has this little bit of sadness and detachedness within him, like he's never going to be fixed after being so broken and this is the only thing he knows to do to make it better. You really see it more in TDK than in Begins, but even as Batman you can feel his loathing for himself and the city he's trying to salvage.
He's the first Batman to really hate being Batman and hate living in a world that needs Batman, and that's really dynamic.
Indeed, it's why this version has beaten out BTAS on my list of best Batmans.
Yeah, Conroy is great and all, but I don't think we'll see Bale shouting from the rooftops, "I AM THE NIGHT!"
TAS' Batman treated the cowl like a sacred burden.
Nolan's Batman treats the cowl like someone who takes chemotherapy.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
What? I was exaggerating to make a point, but there's really no need for a scene where Bruce gives the chief of police a big check. There's every indication in the films that Gotham PD is well-equipped and well-trained, but suffer from corruption and facing against a class of criminal they can't deal with. Not because he has better guns or superpowers, but because he's out-planning them. Because it's a superhero movie about a man doing what the cops can't, not just because they don't have the money, but because it's simply not their role in society.
It's like you didn't see the same movie! I mean, it's fascinating that you can come away with such different impressions, but I really don't get it.
And yet Cracked.com did a whole thing on it which I wasn't even aware of. So I can't be only one...
"Not being the only one" doesn't make you right, either :P
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
It also wouldn't be very effective.
Also that after hours video about Batman was pretty inaccurate in an attempt to be humorous.
It's like "The Rebel Alliance murdered millions of innocent people when they blew up the Death Star" or the Ewok Holocaust.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
Out of curiosity, how would he "help out" the police without it being bribery?
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
What? I was exaggerating to make a point, but there's really no need for a scene where Bruce gives the chief of police a big check. There's every indication in the films that Gotham PD is well-equipped and well-trained, but suffer from corruption and facing against a class of criminal they can't deal with. Not because he has better guns or superpowers, but because he's out-planning them. Because it's a superhero movie about a man doing what the cops can't, not just because they don't have the money, but because it's simply not their role in society.
It's like you didn't see the same movie! I mean, it's fascinating that you can come away with such different impressions, but I really don't get it.
And yet Cracked.com did a whole thing on it which I wasn't even aware of. So I can't be only one...
Fucking...
If your going to us it as evidence you could at least watch the video.
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Are you guys forgetting the part in TDK when they flat out showed Batman helping Gordon by giving him irradiated bills to use to trace the mob's bank accounts?
And then a few scenes later, Dent literally says "Lightly irradiated bills... fancy stuff for a city cop." And then the sting gets torpedoed by the mob's corrupt sources in either Dent's office or Gordon's force?
The problem with law enforcement in TDK is never implied to be lack of funding. Ever. It's corruption, straight from the beginning of Batman Begins.
I'm sure the next reboot will be lighter in tone than Nolan's.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
Nolan's staying on as producer so I'm not to worried about the reboot. I'd like to see Jim Caviezel pick up the mantle from Bale.
I'm sure the next reboot will be lighter in tone than Nolan's.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
Nolan's staying on as producer so I'm not to worried about the reboot. I'd like to see Jim Caviezel pick up the mantle from Bale.
I would be if I were you. He also consulted on Man of Steel and that looks...
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Are you guys forgetting the part in TDK when they flat out showed Batman helping Gordon by giving him irradiated bills to use to trace the mob's bank accounts?
And then a few scenes later, Dent literally says "Lightly irradiated bills... fancy stuff for a city cop." And then the sting gets torpedoed by the mob's corrupt sources in either Dent's office or Gordon's force?
The problem with law enforcement in TDK is never implied to be lack of funding. Ever. It's corruption, straight from the beginning of Batman Begins.
Exactly.
A SWAT team armed and equipped and numbered to take Normandy isn't going to do shit if it's run by people in the pay of the Mob.
Which was the problem Wayne created the Batman to solve.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
So you're saying that a Smilex filled Macy's Day parade and blowing up a ferry full of people are things that are equal in your realism scale? 'Cause one is like actual terrorism and one is like comic-book froofrah.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
So you're saying that a Smilex filled Macy's Day parade and blowing up a ferry full of people are things that are equal in your realism scale? 'Cause one is like actual terrorism and one is like comic-book froofrah.
The ferry scenario is so comic book. If anything, a poison gas attack on Macy's Day parade is far more realistic and terrifying! It would kill thousands of people! And it's more like a real terrorist attack since it's aim is to cause general fear and chaos rather than just being a little morality play that maybe kills a couple hundred in a big spectacle.
I'm sure the next reboot will be lighter in tone than Nolan's.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
So you're saying that a Smilex filled Macy's Day parade and blowing up a ferry full of people are things that are equal in your realism scale? 'Cause one is like actual terrorism and one is like comic-book froofrah.
The ferry scenario is so comic book. If anything, a poison gas attack on Macy's Day parade is far more realistic and terrifying! It would kill thousands of people! And it's more like a real terrorist attack since it's aim is to cause general fear and chaos rather than just being a little morality play that maybe kills a couple hundred in a big spectacle.
A less comic-booky act of terrorism would be to do something like blow up a hospital, threaten an entire city, then tell them that all the bridges and tunnels are also rigged with bombs.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
I mean, seriously, the entirety of Batman Begins is showing Gotham to be magnificently corrupt. Without Batman in Batman Begins, there is no Harvey Dent or Lt Gordon and the MCD.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
I don't think the Joker ever said THAT. And I don't think that's anything that hasn't been pointed out about Batman for decades. Perhaps you could argue that the films spend less time talking about the charity funds that Wayne Enterprises carries on, but I still think you're pretty far off base in your interpretation of what Nolan is shooting for.
That could change with TDKR, of course, but I think you're really really reaching.
I don't. And you can't say these are like the old ones because they're not. In a world where chemicals can turn you into a homicidal clown, you can have a guy with gadgets be the square-jawed white-hat.
In a world where it's a loony who wears make-up and commits terrorist acts, a dude who puts billions into a super car instead of helping out the local police is kinda a dick.
I'm actually giving Nolan a lot of credit. I think he very quickly realized what Batman himself becomes if you make his world super realistic. It's really the fans that don't want to acknowledge it.
IIRC Nolan's not the first to do this. The comics have touched on the subject and Batman: TAS.
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
So you're saying that a Smilex filled Macy's Day parade and blowing up a ferry full of people are things that are equal in your realism scale? 'Cause one is like actual terrorism and one is like comic-book froofrah.
I'm not trying to set up a false equivalency, obviously the Nolan version is more "realistic". That's not what we're talking about, in their respective universes, they're equally terrorists.
I'm sure the next reboot will be lighter in tone than Nolan's.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
Nolan's staying on as producer so I'm not to worried about the reboot. I'd like to see Jim Caviezel pick up the mantle from Bale.
I would be if I were you. He also consulted on Man of Steel and that looks...
The biggest issue I have with that is the bad costume for Superman, right now I'm confident it'll be ok. Whether it'll be good we'll have to wait and see.
What makes you think GCPD is underfunded (anymore than say the NYPD or Chicago PD are)? They don't have the tank that Bruce stole from his company, but again Gotham's problems can't really be solved by throwing money at the police department.
It also misses the whole point of the first movie. Like completely misses it. And the point of the opening of TDK.
Batman is a SYMBOL. That's his power. It's not about having the best, most expensive toys, it's about the way he makes criminals feel afraid and ordinary people feel safe.
A donation to the police department can't solve that.
shryke on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I mean, he even lays it out on the plane - he wants to be a symbol that's "incorruptible."
Heck, the Joker uses the same word when he's hanging upside-down.
Posts
True. In Nolan's universe Batman has a reason to stay around. Without him Gotham wouldn't have survived Begins, never mind dealing with the Joker.
"Here Mr. Mayor, Commisioner, citizens of Gotham, a fleet of new squads cars and better equipment for the SWAT units courtesy of Wayne Enterprises."
Like that. That wouldn't be bribery.
I think the general interpretation is that Batman is the heavy/targeted strike, where one guy with a shitload of effectiveness can help you out more than giving everyone a couple more bullets.
While I would say the real era of deconstruction started around the time Watchmen and DKR came out, I agree that a lot of the late-80s/early-90s self-referential stuff rang pretty false because it was little more than a bunch of neckbeards figuring out that they were all just a bunch of neckbeards and hahaisn'tbreakingthefourthwallfunny?
It is cyclical, and the cycles are going to be faster and faster, but I hope the era of comics when childishly grimdark books like The Crow and The Mask are big sellers are long behind us.
There is a very good thread in TDK about escalation and such, but it isn't really following "Selfish Bruce needs to give more to the Fire and Ice Ball".
What episode? I don't remember that one.
There's a massive difference between touching on and making explicit.
I always got the impression that he does that and the whole Batman thing. Given how he's so buddy-buddy with the cops in TDK, anyway.
And the adventures of Super Philathropist Man would be pretty boring. It is a movie, after all, so that's all, you know, off-screen.
Fairly certain he does. They just haven't shown this in the Nolan films (because, frankly, it hasn't fit in)
I think we have slightly different chronologies.
I'm sure it will be (Warners is great at clumsily looking around at other studios' success and saying, "Hey, let's do THAT"), but even that might not be something I'm all for.
The Burton films and the Nolan films, while different in approach and aesthetic, both understood the melancholy inherent of a character built on a foundation of witnessing his parents' violent murder that turned him to a life of spending his fortune making sure the bad people feel pain like he feels it.
Batman's not a sunny character, and there's not a lot of cheerfulness that can be organically harvested from his origins.
Who asked for that? If you're interested in a convo, then the all or nothing approach has to stop, guys.
And I don't see him having helped them at all, being as they're markedly outclassed in pretty much every single encounter.
Sounds accurate.
I like how with Nolan's Batman he doesn't want to stay Batman. That he'd drop it the second it wasn't useful anymore. It made Bruce seem more realistic.
True. The episode was "Trial".
Again, you can't compare a world where the Joker is a dude who fell into chemical soup and came out a clown to one where a homicidal maniac wears makeup and commits terrorist acts. TAS Batman is Burton's Batman, not Nolan's.
It is a nice touch. I really engaged with the way that Bruce had such high hopes for Harvey being successful so he could just stop all this silly shit and go live his life.
But I love Bale's Bruce Wayne anyway. He always has this little bit of sadness and detachedness within him, like he's never going to be fixed after being so broken and this is the only thing he knows to do to make it better. You really see it more in TDK than in Begins, but even as Batman you can feel his loathing for himself and the city he's trying to salvage.
He's the first Batman to really hate being Batman and hate living in a world that needs Batman, and that's really dynamic.
What? I was exaggerating to make a point, but there's really no need for a scene where Bruce gives the chief of police a big check. There's every indication in the films that Gotham PD is well-equipped and well-trained, but suffer from corruption and facing against a class of criminal they can't deal with. Not because he has better guns or superpowers, but because he's out-planning them. Because it's a superhero movie about a man doing what the cops can't, not just because they don't have the money, but because it's simply not their role in society.
It's like you didn't see the same movie! I mean, it's fascinating that you can come away with such different impressions, but I really don't get it.
Batman: TAS may have been influenced by Burton's movies but it's more faithful to the comics then Burton's. Batman, Joker, Penguin & Catwoman are very different. Batman: TAS Joker has committed terrorist acts before. He tried to blow up Gotham with a nuclear bomb once IIRC. Almost destroyed Metropolis, too.
Indeed, it's why this version has beaten out BTAS on my list of best Batmans.
It also wouldn't be very effective.
Also that after hours video about Batman was pretty inaccurate in an attempt to be humorous.
What makes you think GCPD is underfunded (anymore than say the NYPD or Chicago PD are)? They don't have the tank that Bruce stole from his company, but again Gotham's problems can't really be solved by throwing money at the police department.
Agreed.
And yet Cracked.com did a whole thing on it which I wasn't even aware of. So I can't be only one...
Yeah, Conroy is great and all, but I don't think we'll see Bale shouting from the rooftops, "I AM THE NIGHT!"
TAS' Batman treated the cowl like a sacred burden.
Nolan's Batman treats the cowl like someone who takes chemotherapy.
"Not being the only one" doesn't make you right, either :P
That whole line of reasoning is just weird anyway, Burton's Joker DOES commit terrorist acts, as does the Penguin. As does the comics Joker (who also, at one point, fell into a vat of poison).
Need we be reminded that Jack Nicholson Joker is already a homicidal maniac before he falls into the poison vat?
It's like "The Rebel Alliance murdered millions of innocent people when they blew up the Death Star" or the Ewok Holocaust.
Fucking...
If your going to us it as evidence you could at least watch the video.
http://www.cracked.com/video_18175_why-batman-secretly-terrible-gotham.html
And then a few scenes later, Dent literally says "Lightly irradiated bills... fancy stuff for a city cop." And then the sting gets torpedoed by the mob's corrupt sources in either Dent's office or Gordon's force?
The problem with law enforcement in TDK is never implied to be lack of funding. Ever. It's corruption, straight from the beginning of Batman Begins.
Nolan's staying on as producer so I'm not to worried about the reboot. I'd like to see Jim Caviezel pick up the mantle from Bale.
I would be if I were you. He also consulted on Man of Steel and that looks...
Exactly.
A SWAT team armed and equipped and numbered to take Normandy isn't going to do shit if it's run by people in the pay of the Mob.
Which was the problem Wayne created the Batman to solve.
So you're saying that a Smilex filled Macy's Day parade and blowing up a ferry full of people are things that are equal in your realism scale? 'Cause one is like actual terrorism and one is like comic-book froofrah.
The ferry scenario is so comic book. If anything, a poison gas attack on Macy's Day parade is far more realistic and terrifying! It would kill thousands of people! And it's more like a real terrorist attack since it's aim is to cause general fear and chaos rather than just being a little morality play that maybe kills a couple hundred in a big spectacle.
That didn't really stop them in 1966:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iCFAA_yM00
I love the look Batman gives the spotlight/camera, as if we're all the biggest shitheads he's ever seen.
That said, the type of comedy I most want to see Batman in is a black comedy.
A less comic-booky act of terrorism would be to do something like blow up a hospital, threaten an entire city, then tell them that all the bridges and tunnels are also rigged with bombs.
I'm not trying to set up a false equivalency, obviously the Nolan version is more "realistic". That's not what we're talking about, in their respective universes, they're equally terrorists.
The biggest issue I have with that is the bad costume for Superman, right now I'm confident it'll be ok. Whether it'll be good we'll have to wait and see.
It also misses the whole point of the first movie. Like completely misses it. And the point of the opening of TDK.
Batman is a SYMBOL. That's his power. It's not about having the best, most expensive toys, it's about the way he makes criminals feel afraid and ordinary people feel safe.
A donation to the police department can't solve that.
Heck, the Joker uses the same word when he's hanging upside-down.