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Camp [Phalla] Lake - Mini - Day 6: Sunkmanitu Tanka's Last Stand (Village Victory!)
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I'm not sure. After jdark turned up green I was nearly 100% sure that Smoove was mafia (though I though Capfalcon was the 6th imaginary mafia), and I wasn't in the seer network until later. I'm sure that I wasn't the only one that came to that conclusion.
It's a difficult mechanic to balance, but I think I have to agree with REG's sentiment here. If mafia can guard with no rest restrictions (which we could), then we were technically guardvig immune. That's a powerful ability. HOWEVER, it is balanced by other factors:
1) you put a for real actual Vig in the game
2) if I claim to not be guarding one night, and my cabin tries to guardvig me...then I have effectively signed my own death warrant for lying about my orders.
3) anytime I have ever seen it come to light that someone was immune to a vig, they are immediately put on public trial. Without a damn good explanation, they are quickly shown the door.
While its true that this limits the village to the vote and the true Vig as the only way to eliminate mafia...isn't that standard operating procedure? And its not like mafia could use the guardvig to our advantage to get extra kills, either. If we use the kill on our own volition, its very obvious that we we went rogue and again...signing our own death warrant. The politics of the guardvig would have kept us from going on a killing spree with it. Unless there was a situation where all the mafia had finagled their way into being the sole guards of each cabin on a night were they could mathematically eliminate enough of the village to win. Seems unlikely. I don't think its a bad mechanic, I just think that mafia should have been able to guard just like a vanilla villager, rest restrictions and all (albeit with guard strength 0).
The more I think about it while typing this, I can imagine scenarios where the mafia could potentially abuse the power. So maybe its too difficult to balance. I don't know. It's essentially putting a vig into the game that kills villagers and seers mafia. That seems fair to me. But then the mafia can also use that same vig to just kill villagers. So maybe if the village hits an unlucky streak actually finding mafia, then the mafia become way too powerful. Look now I'm just typing in circles, so I'll just quit.
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
1) The kills diminish as we lose players, and 5 kills is assuming no guards on 4 people's cabins
2) avoiding by putting us all into a single cabin is a silly defense because we'd be found out easier
You have to consider if the mechanical process of evasion would hinder a vote record as well. Plus the ability of the guards (see: village players) to be able to overwrite if we wanted into a cabin. It's close to balanced, but not quite perfect.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time I was wrong
I just remember our vote counts differing for most of the day and that change being the reason. The mafia also missed out by not having a vote count day 3. Sir Fab actually tied the vote between Kelzor and Kime, but no one realized it. Smoove's late vote broke the tie, but had he not voted or done a throwaway, the mafia would've gotten a free Sir Fab kill.
Moral: doing your vote count is fast and good for you!
These were a lot of discussions that I had while I was trying to put this together. And a lot of the same circles that I went around in. The initial version of the mafia guard would have let you kill everyone in your cabin if the only guards were skinchangers. While I thought the potential for 17 deaths night one in a 28 person game was kinda cool, it did seem a bit off. I brought that down to being able to guard vig, but at the expense of your normal mafia attack, and eventually to the final version. Looking at things now, there should have been a greater reason and benefit for the mafia to guard a cabin.
One of the other big influences on writing this was watching Figgy's Edinbourough Manor mini. At the end, one of the big complaints was the mafia getting consistently getting two kill a night in a small mini. Since I'd tried to balance mine around the mafia getting two or three kills each night, I panicked a little and tried to get the village a tad bit stronger. In the original design there wasn't a seer or a busdriver, but both got added in. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably leave out the seer.
I also really misread how the politics of guard-vig would work. I expected them to be much more common (if you have a vig, use it) and for the mafia to pick up some free village kills, both with the vigs and with killing off the suspicious vigger via the vote.
Your narrations were always a fun read (love how you made forums names work into real names). The mechanics were really smart. I love games where everyone has something to do and there is a strong reason for (or a built in) soft-networking setup.
Again, sucks I got vigged by the mafia night one. Why'd you guys aim for me?
Xbox Live / Steam
I wasn't part of the discussion, but I assume it was because you decided to stay out there on your own. Which meant you were an easy kill that could be spun as bad luck.
I think I am now used to being permanently suspicious looking, I guess it's just one of those things you gotta work around.
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
I think Obi on day 1.
Everyone is permanently suspicious looking.
Though your av doesn't help
But there was no way you guys knew I was on my own. In fact, I made it pretty clear in the thread I was in a cabin and considering there were multiple people you guys didn't have tabs on there's no way you knew I was on my own.
Nope, I got vigged by Sunk on day one.
Xbox Live / Steam
That was my order though, if you want someone to hold accountable.
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
Just wondering if my strategy at the beginning had any merit. Which it initially looked like it did since you guys killed people that weren't in your cabins. So on day two I was yelling at my computer "Look!! They killed people who weren't in their cabins and didn't have information about!! That means Retaba and [whoever the other person was] are village!!!" Which turned out to be true but not on purpose, it looked like because after reading your board you guys just killed randomly, I think.
Xbox Live / Steam
I actually did this on purpose because I didn't want the hilarious renddeal anomaly to cut the game short. If I was only in contact with 1 mafia, or it had taken longer to root out the other three, I would have come out guns blazing and revealed everything I knew at the end. But I figured the mafia were at a ridiculous enough disadvantage that not knowing 100% who they were wouldn't be a death sentence for the village.
It turned out OK, and you are right, that is a hilarious situation. I like how that day came about
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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You're welcome to being brought into that Saber.
Yeah, we had some pretty impressive restraint
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile