Stokoe puts so much detail and precision into his work, and he draws things that no one else even thinks, much less draws, 90% of the time he draws, it is something completely new, or a completely new take on something that somehow works and is amazing.
Was it Ramos or the other guy who drew some of Morrison's New X Men with Fantomas, Wolverine and Cyclops and the World? That was some cool, crazy stuff.
This is way late, so I'm sorry, but League of ExtGents: Black Dossier was atrocious. It starts out mildly interesting and degenerates into Alan Moore porn-lit... stuff. I don't even. It was the most heartbreaking thing I've read in a while (back when I read it).
It sort of drives me up the wall to hear fans casually say X artist sucks, is shitty, etc.. Something can not be to your tastes, and still possess positive features, or be the product of a lot of skill and practice, which I think should be recognized.
I think a lot of the time people say "[blank] is a terrible artist" when they really mean "I don't care for [blank]'s style".
I don't think Ramos is a terrible artist (and didn't say as much), but I really don't care for his style.
Or: when I compare him to the walking avatar of bad comic art, I don't think he's ignorant or untrained in drawing feet - or any other part of the human figure - and it does look like a conscious style to my eyes. But to my eyes it's a similar kind of situation: the style's loved and perpetuated because it's cool, dynamic, and different (even... extreme) despite twisting bodies into some fairly eyebrow-raising shapes, at times.
'Cos Alpha does have legs like golf equipment in that pic. Two sticks with thick clubs on the ends. It's the product of something, but I'm struggling to recognise it as skill and practise.
That said, I don't think Humberto's art or influence is anywhere close to Rob's at his various heights. Or lows. It pretty much (rightly?) skims under the radar.
I read Impulse in the day, even got the issue where he first turned up in Flash.
I use to love Ramos art but these days I really can't stomach it at all now, maybe it's a change in taste and attitude but a lot of it feels lacking. I look at what he did and what he does now and the guy hasn't changed his style at all and maybe that's the problem I have with it? Maybe it's just pointless bitching but he really doesn't seem to have evolved and a lot of his characters feel the same. None distinctive, it almost feels like cloning, kinda like if you see one of his comics you seen them all.
Was it Ramos or the other guy who drew some of Morrison's New X Men with Fantomas, Wolverine and Cyclops and the World? That was some cool, crazy stuff.
I want to say that was Bachalo, who has a style similar to Ramos.
I too love Ramos on most on the stuff he does, but specially on Spidey.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
If by great you mean cannot draw a person that looks like... anyone or thing I've ever seen I suppose he does yes.
I mean, this is just grabbed from P1 of GIS for him (and it has SF 49ers, so I like that...)
But why are everyone's forearms as wide as their heads? Where are the necks. This is Liefield 101 (ok, that's trolling... I still don't take it back though!) He just skips pouches for extra detail! PS if that dude's ankle was actually bent like that, he wouldn't be a running back, he'd be a limping-around on a broken ankle-back.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
And I obviously can appreciate art that isn't anatomically perfect too (HELLO MR. RAMOS HAVE YOU SEEN HUMAN FEET BEFORE? OR DO YOU HAVE A NECK CONDITION WHERE YOU CANNOT LOOK DOWN AND YOU'VE NEVER SEEN A FOOT?) I just don't get his art really.
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Seriously, you're completely discounting things like anatomy, composition, perspective, lineart quality, coloring, etc. just because you don't like the way he exaggerates the human form.
I've had this same stupid argument about Juan Bobillo and Nick Bradshaw, in the past month. People see a character that has eyes that are a little too small, or a body that's drawn in a way they don't think is "right," and suddenly that artist has no skill.
I don't think people realize how much effort and talent it takes, just to make a shitty drawing, let alone the kind of work Stokoe produces.
I realize it, Munch. I've tried to draw before, and oh my goodness. The crap I produced made "shitty" look like "good". I'm with you on this.
As for Stokoe, the main thing I love about his work is the mad energy behind it. Each page/drawing is bursting with ideas; if I bite into one, creativity just like gushes out and gets all over the front of my shirt and then everyone laughs at me and then I have to go change shirts.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
Seriously, you're completely discounting things like anatomy, composition, perspective, lineart quality, coloring, etc. just because you don't like the way he exaggerates the human form.
I've had this same stupid argument about Juan Bobillo and Nick Bradshaw, in the past month. People see a character that has eyes that are a little too small, or a body that's drawn in a way they don't think is "right," and suddenly that artist has no skill.
I don't think people realize how much effort and talent it takes, just to make a shitty drawing, let alone the kind of work Stokoe produces.
Yes that ref's neck is obscured by pads oh wait no it's not. I should have specified I guess. But you ignored the arms, ankles, etc. I didn't say he was atrocious, I said I don't find his work to be good.
Screw it, he's atrocious (but only in this thread, otherwise, I just don't like it much and would never pay $ for one of his books).
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
And I'm saying he is guilty of much of the same stuff that people shred Liefield for.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
I realize it, Munch. I've tried to draw before, and oh my goodness. The crap I produced made "shitty" look like "good". I'm with you on this.
As for Stokoe, the main thing I love about his work is the mad energy behind it. Each page/drawing is bursting with ideas; if I bite into one, creativity just like gushes out and gets all over the front of my shirt and then everyone laughs at me and then I have to go change shirts.
I kind of get this, but I don't like it in comics. Go do art ifyou want to do that, don't draw comics (badly ZING).
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Yes that ref's neck is obscured by pads oh wait no it's not. I should have specified I guess. But you ignored the arms, ankles, etc. I didn't say he was atrocious, I said I don't find his work to be good.
The fuck are you talking about? The ref's missing his neck because he's a fat guy, blowing on a whistle and inflating his cheeks for comedic effect. And I didn't feel the need to address the ankle or forearm, because I felt it was pretty well covered by the whole thing about exaggerating human anatomy.
And no, you didn't say he was atrocious, but "terrible." You also said you're just trolling, so I'm not sure why I'm even having this conversation.
By all means, enjoy your ignorant, ill-informed opinion!
Yes that ref's neck is obscured by pads oh wait no it's not. I should have specified I guess. But you ignored the arms, ankles, etc. I didn't say he was atrocious, I said I don't find his work to be good.
The fuck are you talking about? The ref's missing his neck because he's a fat guy, blowing on a whistle and inflating his cheeks for comedic effect. And I didn't feel the need to address the ankle or forearm, because I felt it was pretty well covered by the whole thing about exaggerating human anatomy.
And no, you didn't say he was atrocious, but "terrible." You also said you're just trolling, so I'm not sure why I'm even having this conversation.
By all means, enjoy your ignorant, ill-informed opinion!
No, I'm complaining in the thread built for it... I guess I could have made a new thread for asking why people get excited about his poor illustration, but I didn't because his art being sub-standard for a comic book seemed to be a fitting subject for this one! Like, if you just like it, that's fine, but his art is very similar in exageration to Liefield's, which is universally panned. I mean, Liefield sure has a lot of detail body hair and belts in his illustration, how is this that much different? But I'm sure that my opinion is illinformed because I don't appreciate (crappy) exaggeration that would be ripped on if his name was JS and was... take your pick, Ramos, Liefield (his isn't comedic exactly in the tragic sense I know), or Quitely. I don't think that jamming a billion doodles into each panel is that excellent for comic art. Maybe for a where's waldo.
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I honestly do not see anything egregiously wrong with the page you posted.
It is clearly meant to have a slightly more exaggerated, more cartoony style, so stuff like the ankle bend don't bother me.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
My bro usually has a handle on ugly/good art, been drawing for years
He had nothing bad to say about that page
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I got something to bitch about. I bought issues 1-40 of The Demon. The 1990 series. I jsut read on wikipedia how it went to issue 58. if I had just held on for 18 more issues, I would have the complete set!
I annoys me that I will get a bundle deal of random comics Usually just a series I am after but random issues or I find them in dumb bins for cheap
What annoys me about it I will spend years looking fruitlessly for the missing ones or find someone offering it with a bunch of the ones I allready have
Holy shit. Really? Stokoe? That's where you're staking out a line?
Stokoe is a fucking brilliant artist. Your not enjoying the pictures he creates should not be mistaken for him being a poor artist. He's amazingly good at what he does. God damn. I mean shit on tracers or whatever all you want but wow. Hahaha "why people get excited about low-quality art" jesus christ I just can't even process this shit.
I mean forget detail work, look at the fucking colors!
Holy shit. Really? Stokoe? That's where you're staking out a line?
Stokoe is a fucking brilliant artist. Your not enjoying the pictures he creates should not be mistaken for him being a poor artist. He's amazingly good at what he does. God damn. I mean shit on tracers or whatever all you want but wow. Hahaha "why people get excited about low-quality art" jesus christ I just can't even process this shit.
I mean forget detail work, look at the fucking colors!
The colors are good. I haven't complained about them, although I could probably if it will help. Nah, I couldn't, I like the coloring.
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And I'm saying he is guilty of much of the same stuff that people shred Liefield for.
This is probably one of the silliest things I've ever read. Stokoe is an amazing artist. There's a difference between an artist who understands anatomy to the point where he/she can convincingly exaggerate it (Stokoe, Ramos, etc) and those that just clearly have no idea how anatomy works and draw whatever they feel looks cool (Liefeld).
stokoe and ramos are the natural evolution of liefeld
love him or hate him, liefeld brought a fun energy to them 90's comics
shit was just so different and energetic and even if the anatomy was off, there was some kind of excitement compared to normal panels that were painstakenly framed
it conveyed a lot of action through exaggeration. even if the exaggeration came from completely misunderstanding anatomy.
stokoe, ramos, and the like are just that dynamism with a fundamental knowledge of how shit should work.
stokoe and ramos are the natural evolution of liefeld
love him or hate him, liefeld brought a fun energy to them 90's comics
shit was just so different and energetic and even if the anatomy was off, there was some kind of excitement compared to normal panels that were painstakenly framed
it conveyed a lot of action through exaggeration. even if the exaggeration came from completely misunderstanding anatomy.
stokoe, ramos, and the like are just that dynamism with a fundamental knowledge of how shit should work.
I would say that is an excellent point
For all that everyone loves to make fun of him now, there's a reason Liefeld was well-loved in his prime. It wasn't because he knew how to like, draw human beings, but it was because he just flat out did shit. Comics drawn by Liefeld were kind of really fun when they came out, all guns the size of houses.
Stokoe is what happens when you flat out do some shit and also know enough to start from a good spot. And the color, detail, little jokes sprinkled about, stretchy action folks, he's just oh man he is my favorite. I mean Spider-Nam alone would make him one of my favorites.
Good grief, I am tired of the inane discourse on Scans_Daily.
A sampling of the nonsense these people are spewing:
Two questions:
Why is Scott and Emma glowie? And am I the only one who finds this incredibly stupid?
Really? X men are the villains now? Just because of the Avengers movie I'm betting. I'm officially dropping Marvel. I'm so tired of this company.
now the x-men will NEVER be anything other than villains... why BOTHER with the Age of Heroes if they were going to do this. This is why i prefer DC....
I annoys me that I will get a bundle deal of random comics Usually just a series I am after but random issues or I find them in dumb bins for cheap
What annoys me about it I will spend years looking fruitlessly for the missing ones or find someone offering it with a bunch of the ones I allready have
I have so many "2 of 3" without a "1 of 3" or a "3 of 3" , it makes me weep.
Edit: altho I will say, the series I don't have endings for, cause me to brainstorm/imagine what could happen in fun ways sometimes.
Good grief, I am tired of the inane discourse on Scans_Daily.
A sampling of the nonsense these people are spewing:
Two questions:
Why is Scott and Emma glowie? And am I the only one who finds this incredibly stupid?
Really? X men are the villains now? Just because of the Avengers movie I'm betting. I'm officially dropping Marvel. I'm so tired of this company.
now the x-men will NEVER be anything other than villains... why BOTHER with the Age of Heroes if they were going to do this. This is why i prefer DC....
Posts
oh
you do?
Agreed.
WTF o_O
Also, horrible? That's a pretty strong word.
Nope!
And after a quick google, I hate those too.
I don't think Ramos is a terrible artist (and didn't say as much), but I really don't care for his style.
Or: when I compare him to the walking avatar of bad comic art, I don't think he's ignorant or untrained in drawing feet - or any other part of the human figure - and it does look like a conscious style to my eyes. But to my eyes it's a similar kind of situation: the style's loved and perpetuated because it's cool, dynamic, and different (even... extreme) despite twisting bodies into some fairly eyebrow-raising shapes, at times.
'Cos Alpha does have legs like golf equipment in that pic. Two sticks with thick clubs on the ends. It's the product of something, but I'm struggling to recognise it as skill and practise.
That said, I don't think Humberto's art or influence is anywhere close to Rob's at his various heights. Or lows. It pretty much (rightly?) skims under the radar.
I use to love Ramos art but these days I really can't stomach it at all now, maybe it's a change in taste and attitude but a lot of it feels lacking. I look at what he did and what he does now and the guy hasn't changed his style at all and maybe that's the problem I have with it? Maybe it's just pointless bitching but he really doesn't seem to have evolved and a lot of his characters feel the same. None distinctive, it almost feels like cloning, kinda like if you see one of his comics you seen them all.
Especially on Spidey
Take your dang positivity somewhere else! I bid you GOOD BAD DAY!
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Where's he get off.
All that.. detail.
Leave some detail for the rest of us, Geoff!
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I want to say that was Bachalo, who has a style similar to Ramos.
I too love Ramos on most on the stuff he does, but specially on Spidey.
More like he should leave some drawing ability for JS so JS doesn't have to cover up his terrible art with insane detail.
This thread is back on track!
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If by great you mean cannot draw a person that looks like... anyone or thing I've ever seen I suppose he does yes.
I mean, this is just grabbed from P1 of GIS for him (and it has SF 49ers, so I like that...)
But why are everyone's forearms as wide as their heads? Where are the necks. This is Liefield 101 (ok, that's trolling... I still don't take it back though!) He just skips pouches for extra detail! PS if that dude's ankle was actually bent like that, he wouldn't be a running back, he'd be a limping-around on a broken ankle-back.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
where is his neeeeeeeck
Seriously, you're completely discounting things like anatomy, composition, perspective, lineart quality, coloring, etc. just because you don't like the way he exaggerates the human form.
I've had this same stupid argument about Juan Bobillo and Nick Bradshaw, in the past month. People see a character that has eyes that are a little too small, or a body that's drawn in a way they don't think is "right," and suddenly that artist has no skill.
I don't think people realize how much effort and talent it takes, just to make a shitty drawing, let alone the kind of work Stokoe produces.
Tumblr Twitter
As for Stokoe, the main thing I love about his work is the mad energy behind it. Each page/drawing is bursting with ideas; if I bite into one, creativity just like gushes out and gets all over the front of my shirt and then everyone laughs at me and then I have to go change shirts.
Yes that ref's neck is obscured by pads oh wait no it's not. I should have specified I guess. But you ignored the arms, ankles, etc. I didn't say he was atrocious, I said I don't find his work to be good.
Screw it, he's atrocious (but only in this thread, otherwise, I just don't like it much and would never pay $ for one of his books).
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
I kind of get this, but I don't like it in comics. Go do art ifyou want to do that, don't draw comics (badly ZING).
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
The fuck are you talking about? The ref's missing his neck because he's a fat guy, blowing on a whistle and inflating his cheeks for comedic effect. And I didn't feel the need to address the ankle or forearm, because I felt it was pretty well covered by the whole thing about exaggerating human anatomy.
And no, you didn't say he was atrocious, but "terrible." You also said you're just trolling, so I'm not sure why I'm even having this conversation.
By all means, enjoy your ignorant, ill-informed opinion!
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No, I'm complaining in the thread built for it... I guess I could have made a new thread for asking why people get excited about his poor illustration, but I didn't because his art being sub-standard for a comic book seemed to be a fitting subject for this one! Like, if you just like it, that's fine, but his art is very similar in exageration to Liefield's, which is universally panned. I mean, Liefield sure has a lot of detail body hair and belts in his illustration, how is this that much different? But I'm sure that my opinion is illinformed because I don't appreciate (crappy) exaggeration that would be ripped on if his name was JS and was... take your pick, Ramos, Liefield (his isn't comedic exactly in the tragic sense I know), or Quitely. I don't think that jamming a billion doodles into each panel is that excellent for comic art. Maybe for a where's waldo.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Tumblr Twitter
It is clearly meant to have a slightly more exaggerated, more cartoony style, so stuff like the ankle bend don't bother me.
He had nothing bad to say about that page
What annoys me about it I will spend years looking fruitlessly for the missing ones or find someone offering it with a bunch of the ones I allready have
Stokoe is a fucking brilliant artist. Your not enjoying the pictures he creates should not be mistaken for him being a poor artist. He's amazingly good at what he does. God damn. I mean shit on tracers or whatever all you want but wow. Hahaha "why people get excited about low-quality art" jesus christ I just can't even process this shit.
I mean forget detail work, look at the fucking colors!
The colors are good. I haven't complained about them, although I could probably if it will help. Nah, I couldn't, I like the coloring.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
This is probably one of the silliest things I've ever read. Stokoe is an amazing artist. There's a difference between an artist who understands anatomy to the point where he/she can convincingly exaggerate it (Stokoe, Ramos, etc) and those that just clearly have no idea how anatomy works and draw whatever they feel looks cool (Liefeld).
love him or hate him, liefeld brought a fun energy to them 90's comics
shit was just so different and energetic and even if the anatomy was off, there was some kind of excitement compared to normal panels that were painstakenly framed
it conveyed a lot of action through exaggeration. even if the exaggeration came from completely misunderstanding anatomy.
stokoe, ramos, and the like are just that dynamism with a fundamental knowledge of how shit should work.
I would say that is an excellent point
For all that everyone loves to make fun of him now, there's a reason Liefeld was well-loved in his prime. It wasn't because he knew how to like, draw human beings, but it was because he just flat out did shit. Comics drawn by Liefeld were kind of really fun when they came out, all guns the size of houses.
Stokoe is what happens when you flat out do some shit and also know enough to start from a good spot. And the color, detail, little jokes sprinkled about, stretchy action folks, he's just oh man he is my favorite. I mean Spider-Nam alone would make him one of my favorites.
I don't like Liefeld's art, but that he inspired fun, energetic artists is fine by me
(Just most of the time).
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
A sampling of the nonsense these people are spewing:
I have so many "2 of 3" without a "1 of 3" or a "3 of 3" , it makes me weep.
Edit: altho I will say, the series I don't have endings for, cause me to brainstorm/imagine what could happen in fun ways sometimes.
Yeah, it's pretty awful