Alright, I missed the launch of 4th and 5th, and the launch of 3rd didn't have the huge internet coverage we have now.
Is the sort of pissing and moaning going on the sort of thing that just occurs with a GW edition release online? Because for every person trying to be rational about it, there's 20 claiming the sky is falling.
It's a thing that happens every time GW do something. Just look at every single Codex release.
I am pretty happy overall with 6th. While it's done no favours to my Thousand Sons (but a new codex is on the horizon, so that doesn't really matter), my new Eldar is looking pretty good overall. Especially with the changes to vehicles. I may have to try and squeeze a Farseer in, especially as the Runes of Warding haven't changed in the FAQ. Although it looks like they missed the Farseer's Spirit Stones.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
Fliers and allies seem like they have the potential to be fairly broken, HOWEVER I'm gunna wait and see how it pans out before getting upset.
The lack of anti-air for xenos if you don't want to take your own fliers is a bit iffy
Welp. I was halfway through painting my two hydras, but now they're pretty much a one trick AA pony. Hurrah.
Also... from a guard perspective, character challenges seem to have some serious flaws. In a large blob squad, I can just keep throwing shitty sergeants at whatever deathstar IC I'm fighting. If he accepts, he gets to splatter a 6 pt model, and nothing else and all his power is wasted. If he refuses, he becomes extremely paranoid and is out of the fight completely. Big bad choas lord better watch out. Corperal Gilbert has a butterknife with his name on it!
Am I reading things right to assume the rulebook Missile launcher overrides all codex missile launchers? It says the firing player must choose between firing the option for flakk missiles, krak missiles, and frag missiles.
It seems like their intention is give the Space Marine codex a way to shoot at fliers.
I disagree since in all the other weapon descriptions have the second paragraph as rules and the first paragraph as fluff. It's a solid house-rule though.
Is there a reference somewhere granting all flyer-mounted weapons Skyfire? 'Cause I don't see it.
Top of page 81 under Special Rules
"Flyers can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each Shooting phase."
Because there's no splitting fire for flyers (yet) there's no downside to their ability to shoot down other flyers.
Chrysis on
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
The Missile Launchers heading in the Weaponry section outlines as a blanket Missile Launchers of all kinds, regardless of what the specific name is. This would include Cyclone Missile Launchers and Typhoon Missile launchers, for example.
Looking in the Weapons Appendix, it's clearly listed that Cyclones and Typhoons only get Frag and Krak standard, while stock Missile Launchers also get access to Flakk.
Alright, I missed the launch of 4th and 5th, and the launch of 3rd didn't have the huge internet coverage we have now.
Is the sort of pissing and moaning going on the sort of thing that just occurs with a GW edition release online? Because for every person trying to be rational about it, there's 20 claiming the sky is falling.
Flyers are fucking stupid and completely fuck armies that won't see a release for another ten years that don't have a way to deal with them outside of allies.
Random charge distance is flatly bad, people who say otherwise are stupid and wrong.
Having to go back and remodel unit champs because whoops turns out I actually want swords rather than axes is dumb.
Yes, they get access to flakk, that's an upgrade as stated in the weaponry section. It's not fluff. Still a good house-rule until the new codices are up and you can pay probably a couple points for it.
And the actual rules for Missile Launchers make it clear it's an optional upgrade.
"All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."
Frag and Krak missiles are standard issue, Flakk are an optional upgrade that no one currently has access to.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
Fliers and allies seem like they have the potential to be fairly broken, HOWEVER I'm gunna wait and see how it pans out before getting upset.
This is madness. You play 40K, you're supposed to fly off the handle the instant ANYTHING changes with the game and stomp around mad about it for at least 6-9 months and quit the game several times during that period and make comments about how much better everything was before in 3rd edition.
Fliers and allies seem like they have the potential to be fairly broken, HOWEVER I'm gunna wait and see how it pans out before getting upset.
This is madness. You play 40K, you're supposed to fly off the handle the instant ANYTHING changes with the game and stomp around mad about it for at least 6-9 months and quit the game several times during that period and make comments about how much better everything was before in 3rd edition.
The only people who played 3E who honestly believe it was the best edition ever played chaos
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superhappypandaZug Island Sport FishingSeattleRegistered Userregular
Fliers and allies seem like they have the potential to be fairly broken, HOWEVER I'm gunna wait and see how it pans out before getting upset.
The lack of anti-air for xenos if you don't want to take your own fliers is a bit iffy
Are Nids without AA? I was hoping that we'd be able to use Pyrovores and Tyrannofexes for AA.
Fliers and allies seem like they have the potential to be fairly broken, HOWEVER I'm gunna wait and see how it pans out before getting upset.
The lack of anti-air for xenos if you don't want to take your own fliers is a bit iffy
Are Nids without AA? I was hoping that we'd be able to use Pyrovores and Tyrannofexes for AA.
Nid AA is Flyrants and Harpies. Harpies are bad and Flyrants are stupid expensive.
As usual nid MCs that cost 200+ are outshone by 130pt IG vehicles.
The Missile Launchers heading in the Weaponry section outlines as a blanket Missile Launchers of all kinds, regardless of what the specific name is. This would include Cyclone Missile Launchers and Typhoon Missile launchers, for example.
Looking in the Weapons Appendix, it's clearly listed that Cyclones and Typhoons only get Frag and Krak standard, while stock Missile Launchers also get access to Flakk.
Until FAQs specifically say otherwise, no one has access to flak. Obviously you and your opponents can do whatever.
--
Generally speaking, unless I see something I completely didn't expect, I'm pretty settled on '6th ed is different, and might end up being fun, but it is not an actual improvement.'
Here's some Space Wolves options that opened up for Thunder Wolf Lords. @altmann, I know you'll be interested.
In regards to pistols...
"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapons. If this is done, use the profile given above - the strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's shooting profile are ignored."
The profile of course CCW, S-User, AP minus, Type - Melee
And in regards to having multiple melee weapons (of which the pistol counts)...
"If a model has more than one melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows"
This is unlike 5th edition, where you had to attack with the special weapon no matter what...
Now here's the Space Wolves related payoff. In the Thundewolf mount rules, a Space Wolves character on a mount "has the rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special close combat weapon."
This means a SW player can choose to attack with rending attacks, even if he's equipped with a power weapon. Because rending has AP-2 and power weapons have AP-3, if you're in a pickle and really need to deal with terminators without having an axe or powerfist on hand, you can resort to rending attacks.
Alright, I missed the launch of 4th and 5th, and the launch of 3rd didn't have the huge internet coverage we have now.
Is the sort of pissing and moaning going on the sort of thing that just occurs with a GW edition release online? Because for every person trying to be rational about it, there's 20 claiming the sky is falling.
Flyers are fucking stupid and completely fuck armies that won't see a release for another ten years that don't have a way to deal with them outside of allies.
Random charge distance is flatly bad, people who say otherwise are stupid and wrong.
Having to go back and remodel unit champs because whoops turns out I actually want swords rather than axes is dumb.
Pretty happy with everything else.
@-Loki- - yes. Since back when Tyranid Tim hung out with everyone on AOL. And even before. I'm guilty of once saying "I still want Rogue Trader. My group will probably ignore the new edition when it comes out." Gamers are always dumb.
@Salvation122... now we must tie our wrists together and knife fight in a warehouse. Random charge distance is the best thing GW has ever done. Ever.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited July 2012
Speculation time!
Reading the new special rules, it seems pretty evident they're trying to put an S6 and A6 cap on monstrous creatures, due to Smash being pretty integral to them beating AV14 in close combat now. That leaves the venerable old Carnifex in an odd spot, since it's always had a very high strength since this is the role it was designed for. Then I saw Armourbane - roll 2D6 for penetrating armour.
I'm thinking the 6th edition codex will see the first ever Carnifex with S6, and it'll be the only monstrous creature in the book game with Armourbane, letting it strike with more attacks than other MCs and still be able to beat AV14.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
Or, if it wants to go for broke, halve its attacks and use Armorbane with increased STR. For some reason.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Well, if every one of this units in his first turn wave mishaps, yeah, he's going to lose turn 1. I can't say I've heard of that happening.
Grey Knight Strike/Interceptor Squads. Although that's a whole different story.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Well, if every one of this units in his first turn wave mishaps, yeah, he's going to lose turn 1. I can't say I've heard of that happening.
Grey Knight Strike/Interceptor Squads. Although that's a whole different story.
That still worked in 5th edition. That's not being unlucky. In that situation, this rule was basically in effect last edition for daemons.
I can't see any way for a daemon player to lose every unit to a mishap unless intentionally placed to do so.
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
Harlequins in 6th edition. So the FAQ says to replace the 2nd and 3rd sentences with HEY THEY HAVE STEALTH + SHROUDED YOU GUYS, on top of the range modification shenanigans.
However, this gets rid of the fact that the psychic power is always on. So does this mean that the Shadowseer has to actually cast it now?
EDIT: Nevermind. They're apparently Psyker Mastery Level 0, so it's always on.
So between the Dark Eldar and an allied Eldar force... I can potentially whip out 4 Harlequin units.
EDIT 2: And that's exactly what I did. Main force consists of a WWP Haemonculus on a Venom with a Wrack posse. Barely had enough points for a second Wrack unit (on foot somewhere). Eldar detachment has a 4 warlock Farseer Council all on Jetbikes with Singing Spears and a unit of 10 Pathfinders. Between both armies I have 4 full units of Harlequins armed with Kisses and led by Shadowseers. All of them come screaming out of the WWP.
Circus came to town, bitches. Though this honestly probably works better as an Eldar list with the DE force consisting of the Haemonculus with a SINGLE wrack venom + Harlequin Troupe and I can just take two smaller Pathfinder squads or something.
EDIT 3: Triple damn it. No. Dark Eldar list. Has to be that due to ally rules. If I want the funbox, I have to do it as Dark Eldar. Cut down on the Pathfinders to make room for two venoms, hopefully, and maybe fusion pistols on the Shadowseers. Allied Troupe walks onto the table. Problem solved.
OtakuD00D on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited July 2012
The only thing I've seen that has me a touch worried is Warp Lance and the lack of Tyranid units with Skyfire.
Simply put, nothing in the Tyranids disciplines can replace it. It's not bad now, but with a new codex, Zoanthropes will likely become regular psykers that draw from a discipline deck, losing the power. It's been a staple power for me, and every game my Zoanthropes pull their weight (one game they did most of the killing, dropping two dreadnoughts, two drop pods and some Space Marines with Warp Blast).
I know it's quite likely Tyranids will get their own discipline (if only because GW could sell more cards), but being random means I'll no longer be able to count on them for anti heavy tank duties. And short of a melee MC or a Tyrannofex, they're the only things that can do it.
As for Skyfire... I guess Tyranid players will just have to learn to ignore flyers? Doesn't bother me too much, since my friends don't seem to use them. Dark Eldar player hates the DE flyers, Space Marine players don't like the SM fliers, IG player plays foot Guard.
Harlequins in 6th edition. So the FAQ says to replace the 2nd and 3rd sentences with HEY THEY HAVE STEALTH + SHROUDED YOU GUYS, on top of the range modification shenanigans.
However, this gets rid of the fact that the psychic power is always on. So does this mean that the Shadowseer has to actually cast it now?
EDIT: Nevermind. They're apparently Psyker Mastery Level 0, so it's always on.
So between the Dark Eldar and an allied Eldar force... I can potentially whip out 4 Harlequin units.
EDIT 2: And that's exactly what I did. Main force consists of a WWP Haemonculus on a Venom with a Wrack posse. Barely had enough points for a second Wrack unit (on foot somewhere). Eldar detachment has a 4 warlock Farseer Council all on Jetbikes with Singing Spears and a unit of 10 Pathfinders. Between both armies I have 4 full units of Harlequins armed with Kisses and led by Shadowseers. All of them come screaming out of the WWP.
Circus came to town, bitches. Though this honestly probably works better as an Eldar list with the DE force consisting of the Haemonculus with a SINGLE wrack venom + Harlequin Troupe and I can just take two smaller Pathfinder squads or something.
EDIT 3: Triple damn it. No. Dark Eldar list. Has to be that due to ally rules. If I want the funbox, I have to do it as Dark Eldar. Cut down on the Pathfinders to make room for two venoms, hopefully, and maybe fusion pistols on the Shadowseers. Allied Troupe walks onto the table. Problem solved.
Non-DE units can't come out of the WWP. I don't know how that works with the Harlequins as they technically come from both books.
Also you can't assault from the portal, which is sad
Harlequins in 6th edition. So the FAQ says to replace the 2nd and 3rd sentences with HEY THEY HAVE STEALTH + SHROUDED YOU GUYS, on top of the range modification shenanigans.
However, this gets rid of the fact that the psychic power is always on. So does this mean that the Shadowseer has to actually cast it now?
EDIT: Nevermind. They're apparently Psyker Mastery Level 0, so it's always on.
So between the Dark Eldar and an allied Eldar force... I can potentially whip out 4 Harlequin units.
EDIT 2: And that's exactly what I did. Main force consists of a WWP Haemonculus on a Venom with a Wrack posse. Barely had enough points for a second Wrack unit (on foot somewhere). Eldar detachment has a 4 warlock Farseer Council all on Jetbikes with Singing Spears and a unit of 10 Pathfinders. Between both armies I have 4 full units of Harlequins armed with Kisses and led by Shadowseers. All of them come screaming out of the WWP.
Circus came to town, bitches. Though this honestly probably works better as an Eldar list with the DE force consisting of the Haemonculus with a SINGLE wrack venom + Harlequin Troupe and I can just take two smaller Pathfinder squads or something.
EDIT 3: Triple damn it. No. Dark Eldar list. Has to be that due to ally rules. If I want the funbox, I have to do it as Dark Eldar. Cut down on the Pathfinders to make room for two venoms, hopefully, and maybe fusion pistols on the Shadowseers. Allied Troupe walks onto the table. Problem solved.
Non-DE units can't come out of the WWP. I don't know how that works with the Harlequins as they technically come from both books.
Also you can't assault from the portal, which is sad
In that situation, I think you'd have to differentiate which FOC the harlequins are on. Allied Harlequins would not be able to use the portal, DE Harlequins would.
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I put my new lanyard on my son, as soon as I put him down to take a picture he went from happy baby to extremely upset.
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It's a thing that happens every time GW do something. Just look at every single Codex release.
I am pretty happy overall with 6th. While it's done no favours to my Thousand Sons (but a new codex is on the horizon, so that doesn't really matter), my new Eldar is looking pretty good overall. Especially with the changes to vehicles. I may have to try and squeeze a Farseer in, especially as the Runes of Warding haven't changed in the FAQ. Although it looks like they missed the Farseer's Spirit Stones.
The lack of anti-air for xenos if you don't want to take your own fliers is a bit iffy
Also... from a guard perspective, character challenges seem to have some serious flaws. In a large blob squad, I can just keep throwing shitty sergeants at whatever deathstar IC I'm fighting. If he accepts, he gets to splatter a 6 pt model, and nothing else and all his power is wasted. If he refuses, he becomes extremely paranoid and is out of the fight completely. Big bad choas lord better watch out. Corperal Gilbert has a butterknife with his name on it!
It seems like their intention is give the Space Marine codex a way to shoot at fliers.
Should just be all missile launchers.
I think the text about upgrades is supposed to be something fluffy. Typical GW, though.
If I'm playing with friends who are going to use flyers, I think I will operate as if missile launchers has them.
Top of page 81 under Special Rules
"Flyers can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each Shooting phase."
Because there's no splitting fire for flyers (yet) there's no downside to their ability to shoot down other flyers.
Flyers are fucking stupid and completely fuck armies that won't see a release for another ten years that don't have a way to deal with them outside of allies.
Random charge distance is flatly bad, people who say otherwise are stupid and wrong.
Having to go back and remodel unit champs because whoops turns out I actually want swords rather than axes is dumb.
Pretty happy with everything else.
"All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles."
Frag and Krak missiles are standard issue, Flakk are an optional upgrade that no one currently has access to.
This is madness. You play 40K, you're supposed to fly off the handle the instant ANYTHING changes with the game and stomp around mad about it for at least 6-9 months and quit the game several times during that period and make comments about how much better everything was before in 3rd edition.
Ah, gotcha. Was looking in the vehicle rules.
The only people who played 3E who honestly believe it was the best edition ever played chaos
Are Nids without AA? I was hoping that we'd be able to use Pyrovores and Tyrannofexes for AA.
Yes, I know what it says. I don't think that is their intention, though.
I generally do think the upgrade comment is a blanket statement meant for typhoon and cyclone missile launchers and the like.
I hope they FAQ it. Until then I think its a solid house rule. They seem more concerned with ruining iconic special weapons, though.
Nid AA is Flyrants and Harpies. Harpies are bad and Flyrants are stupid expensive.
As usual nid MCs that cost 200+ are outshone by 130pt IG vehicles.
shock
gasp
surprise
horror
Until FAQs specifically say otherwise, no one has access to flak. Obviously you and your opponents can do whatever.
--
Generally speaking, unless I see something I completely didn't expect, I'm pretty settled on '6th ed is different, and might end up being fun, but it is not an actual improvement.'
In regards to pistols...
"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapons. If this is done, use the profile given above - the strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's shooting profile are ignored."
The profile of course CCW, S-User, AP minus, Type - Melee
And in regards to having multiple melee weapons (of which the pistol counts)...
"If a model has more than one melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows"
This is unlike 5th edition, where you had to attack with the special weapon no matter what...
Now here's the Space Wolves related payoff. In the Thundewolf mount rules, a Space Wolves character on a mount "has the rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special close combat weapon."
This means a SW player can choose to attack with rending attacks, even if he's equipped with a power weapon. Because rending has AP-2 and power weapons have AP-3, if you're in a pickle and really need to deal with terminators without having an axe or powerfist on hand, you can resort to rending attacks.
It's like GW are a company or something.
@-Loki- - yes. Since back when Tyranid Tim hung out with everyone on AOL. And even before. I'm guilty of once saying "I still want Rogue Trader. My group will probably ignore the new edition when it comes out." Gamers are always dumb.
@Salvation122... now we must tie our wrists together and knife fight in a warehouse. Random charge distance is the best thing GW has ever done. Ever.
And the +1 bonus for AP-2 on the damage table.
Um. How do Chaos Daemons deal with this?
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Reading the new special rules, it seems pretty evident they're trying to put an S6 and A6 cap on monstrous creatures, due to Smash being pretty integral to them beating AV14 in close combat now. That leaves the venerable old Carnifex in an odd spot, since it's always had a very high strength since this is the role it was designed for. Then I saw Armourbane - roll 2D6 for penetrating armour.
I'm thinking the 6th edition codex will see the first ever Carnifex with S6, and it'll be the only monstrous creature in the book game with Armourbane, letting it strike with more attacks than other MCs and still be able to beat AV14.
Because half of their army deep strikes on turn 1. There's never a full turn 1 where the Daemon player is without something to deploy.
Well, if every one of this units in his first turn wave mishaps, yeah, he's going to lose turn 1. I can't say I've heard of that happening.
Grey Knight Strike/Interceptor Squads. Although that's a whole different story.
That still worked in 5th edition. That's not being unlucky. In that situation, this rule was basically in effect last edition for daemons.
I can't see any way for a daemon player to lose every unit to a mishap unless intentionally placed to do so.
However, this gets rid of the fact that the psychic power is always on. So does this mean that the Shadowseer has to actually cast it now?
EDIT: Nevermind. They're apparently Psyker Mastery Level 0, so it's always on.
So between the Dark Eldar and an allied Eldar force... I can potentially whip out 4 Harlequin units.
EDIT 2: And that's exactly what I did. Main force consists of a WWP Haemonculus on a Venom with a Wrack posse. Barely had enough points for a second Wrack unit (on foot somewhere). Eldar detachment has a 4 warlock Farseer Council all on Jetbikes with Singing Spears and a unit of 10 Pathfinders. Between both armies I have 4 full units of Harlequins armed with Kisses and led by Shadowseers. All of them come screaming out of the WWP.
Circus came to town, bitches. Though this honestly probably works better as an Eldar list with the DE force consisting of the Haemonculus with a SINGLE wrack venom + Harlequin Troupe and I can just take two smaller Pathfinder squads or something.
EDIT 3: Triple damn it. No. Dark Eldar list. Has to be that due to ally rules. If I want the funbox, I have to do it as Dark Eldar. Cut down on the Pathfinders to make room for two venoms, hopefully, and maybe fusion pistols on the Shadowseers. Allied Troupe walks onto the table. Problem solved.
Simply put, nothing in the Tyranids disciplines can replace it. It's not bad now, but with a new codex, Zoanthropes will likely become regular psykers that draw from a discipline deck, losing the power. It's been a staple power for me, and every game my Zoanthropes pull their weight (one game they did most of the killing, dropping two dreadnoughts, two drop pods and some Space Marines with Warp Blast).
I know it's quite likely Tyranids will get their own discipline (if only because GW could sell more cards), but being random means I'll no longer be able to count on them for anti heavy tank duties. And short of a melee MC or a Tyrannofex, they're the only things that can do it.
As for Skyfire... I guess Tyranid players will just have to learn to ignore flyers? Doesn't bother me too much, since my friends don't seem to use them. Dark Eldar player hates the DE flyers, Space Marine players don't like the SM fliers, IG player plays foot Guard.
Non-DE units can't come out of the WWP. I don't know how that works with the Harlequins as they technically come from both books.
Also you can't assault from the portal, which is sad
In that situation, I think you'd have to differentiate which FOC the harlequins are on. Allied Harlequins would not be able to use the portal, DE Harlequins would.