I think, with the new map, we should discard the idea of making four roads going in the cardinal directions. Instead of that, we could build railways and walkways from one location to another, with signs pointing the way (like in Skyrim or Morrowind). I think this would encourage players to build closer to spawn instead of staking a claim on an area adjacent to the four cardinal direction roads.
The problem is that the normal pattern of development is the roads coming first and then people building off them some time later. There won't be much in the way of locations to build roads from one to another until there are actually already roads to build from. However, considering that we are planning on doing a lot of canals too now that boats don't suck, there could be room for expansion before roads get there, unless it's like South Road where the whole thing was laid down in a few days.
There was some consideration of a beltway loop road around the spawn that connects the four cardinal roads, say out around 1.5 kilometers away. I think that would encourage a bit more building away from just the road axes. Also, canals and boat tunnels. Beware if you wish to place your house on a narrow spit of land between a large lake and a river, for I may try to eminent domain your place for a public waterway.
You don't need roads. I for one thing it would be 100x better for people to set off in random directions, find interesting landforms, and then build at them. Hell, I'd even say that there should be no map for like a 30 day grace period, let constructs gain fame on their own, let the builders choose whether they want to link their sites with roads.
6000 x 6000 is what we started with on the current map?
before the borders came down?
We started at a 4000 x 4000 square on our current map, but we will probably be doing a 6000 x 6000 circle this time though we are having some debate if that is too large to start or not.
Also the purpose of the border is 3 fold, First is that we want to promote cooperative building what with being a multiplayer server and all. Second we want a controlled expansion of the map when either we feel its necessary or when new biomes/ores require it. Third is we want to keep the file size down so its easier to move around or make manual backups ect.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I think, with the new map, we should discard the idea of making four roads going in the cardinal directions. Instead of that, we could build railways and walkways from one location to another, with signs pointing the way (like in Skyrim or Morrowind). I think this would encourage players to build closer to spawn instead of staking a claim on an area adjacent to the four cardinal direction roads.
The problem is that the normal pattern of development is the roads coming first and then people building off them some time later. There won't be much in the way of locations to build roads from one to another until there are actually already roads to build from. However, considering that we are planning on doing a lot of canals too now that boats don't suck, there could be room for expansion before roads get there, unless it's like South Road where the whole thing was laid down in a few days.
There was some consideration of a beltway loop road around the spawn that connects the four cardinal roads, say out around 1.5 kilometers away. I think that would encourage a bit more building away from just the road axes. Also, canals and boat tunnels. Beware if you wish to place your house on a narrow spit of land between a large lake and a river, for I may try to eminent domain your place for a public waterway.
You don't need roads. I for one thing it would be 100x better for people to set off in random directions, find interesting landforms, and then build at them. Hell, I'd even say that there should be no map for like a 30 day grace period, let constructs gain fame on their own, let the builders choose whether they want to link their sites with roads.
Yes, we do. It is simply a fact. When the north/frontier/whatever was opened up on this map, it took me months* to finally get that thing finished. People had all the time in the world to move out there while the road and rail slooooooowly crept along, but the only people that went out there ahead of the road past that swamp were the builders of Dorfhold (which was kinda sorta cheated in) and Wu who needed a big remote place to build his Hagia Sophia replica. That was it. Beyond that swamp past the Ispawnbul desert, every other development came significantly later after the road was already established and the rail fully functional and linkable. I kept track because I was sad for a long time that I was putting down this nice long road and nobody was moving out there to use it.
*with some help from CRT, and Enc built the dragon head.
So, is the new map going to be up at the end of the month, or is that how long it will take before it supports 1.3?
Since we rely on bukkit we don't really know when we will get the server to 1.3 as it depends on both bukkit and bukkits plugin authors to get everything we use up to date and stable. In the past it's taken roughly a month but take that with a grain of salt because every update is different.
I think, with the new map, we should discard the idea of making four roads going in the cardinal directions. Instead of that, we could build railways and walkways from one location to another, with signs pointing the way (like in Skyrim or Morrowind). I think this would encourage players to build closer to spawn instead of staking a claim on an area adjacent to the four cardinal direction roads.
The problem is that the normal pattern of development is the roads coming first and then people building off them some time later. There won't be much in the way of locations to build roads from one to another until there are actually already roads to build from. However, considering that we are planning on doing a lot of canals too now that boats don't suck, there could be room for expansion before roads get there, unless it's like South Road where the whole thing was laid down in a few days.
There was some consideration of a beltway loop road around the spawn that connects the four cardinal roads, say out around 1.5 kilometers away. I think that would encourage a bit more building away from just the road axes. Also, canals and boat tunnels. Beware if you wish to place your house on a narrow spit of land between a large lake and a river, for I may try to eminent domain your place for a public waterway.
You don't need roads. I for one thing it would be 100x better for people to set off in random directions, find interesting landforms, and then build at them. Hell, I'd even say that there should be no map for like a 30 day grace period, let constructs gain fame on their own, let the builders choose whether they want to link their sites with roads.
Yes, we do. It is simply a fact. When the north/frontier/whatever was opened up on this map, it took me months* to finally get that thing finished. People had all the time in the world to move out there while the road and rail slooooooowly crept along, but the only people that went out there ahead of the road past that swamp were the builders of Dorfhold (which was kinda sorta cheated in) and Wu who needed a big remote place to build his Hagia Sophia replica. That was it. Beyond that swamp past the Ispawnbul desert, every other development came significantly later after the road was already established and the rail fully functional and linkable. I kept track because I was sad for a long time that I was putting down this nice long road and nobody was moving out there to use it.
*with some help from CRT, and Enc built the dragon head.
What he was getting at is that you don't need the roads until there is a reason to use them, and you kind of proved that with your example of the frontier road. It didn't need to be built until it had people it had to connect back somewhere. If we wait to build roads we can dictate where they need to go by where people have settled and it provides a more organic road pattern then simply sticking to cardinal directions. One of the reasons we have a no build setup around spawn was to promote more organic building and have it be not quite so structured.
edit: I guess my point is lets try something different this time. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't but its something new rather then just redoing what we did on our current map. I for one am really excited to see us make a nether rail, we've never done it before and I think it would be a lot of fun actually making a large nether centric project.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
People, I don't know what I'm not getting across here, but you have this exactly backwards. Let me make this super easy and clear how it has worked before:
No roads = very little development
If you do not build the roads in the first place, people will not move there.
Look on the current map, just in the 4k by 4k opening area. Where the roads had been built ahead of time, people moved in and around. Out on the margins where the roads aren't nearby, nobody lives. A lot of those places are not inhabited at all. There is no "oh we can build roads once people are there." No one moves there, so then you don't build roads, and because you don't build roads, nobody moves there, so it's large tracts of big empty space. The roads have to come first.
Alright, so maybe we'll try having Nether rails instead. I have no idea how that's supposed to make things more 'organic'. People will just follow the rails and then throw down a portal a little ways from the previous person, effectively just going a bit further down the 'road.' This is exactly the same thing just with less resources used for rails. You'll still have people mostly building around whatever axes, just now the 'road' is hidden. People follow the infrastructure. You must have some infrastructure of some kind or people will not go out there.
tl;dr Fine, if you don't want roads, I will canal the shit out of the Thirdurf.
Roads being built first is a self fulfilling prophecy, if they are built first people will only settle near the roads. We don't want 50% of the map be unsettled simply because no one bothered to put a road out to that section of the map.
I am not taking issue with their being roads I'm taking issue with how they are structured. Its always been 4 roads from the cardinal directions with little side roads off them. Why do we have to keep doing it that way?
In Simcity man you gotta have roads before your zones will develop.
Maybe just have rules for road construction - allow people to build little trails, but full roads can only be built under specific circumstances?
I just don't like the mind set that there has to be a road before people settle an area. It just seems to me that building a road when it has nothing to connect to on the other end is kind of a waste in time, when doing something like building a road between 2 people to allow them to connect to each other more easily would be a better use of time.
Well yeah, and at the end of the day the discussion is kind of pointless anyway since we do not restrict people in what they do or how they do it as long as it falls within the rules.
edit: Not to mention its not our job to tell you guys how to do stuff (rules not withstanding), its up to you all how you want this map to progress and the direction it goes.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
I am not taking issue with their being roads I'm taking issue with how they are structured. Its always been 4 roads from the cardinal directions with little side roads off them. Why do we have to keep doing it that way?
So we can build more roads. I was planning to do more than just the four straight ones, but whatever. Since no matter what I'll do I'll just end up pissing everyone off, I'm just going to dig canals.
tl;dr Fine, if you don't want roads, I will canal the shit out of the Thirdurf.
Thirdurf is a stupid name. I'm gonna smash my face into the keyboard until someone comes up with something better, or something amazing happens.
I know you're not suggesting it is the name of the new map Maya but I have to say something. It will not be Thirdurf. It is far too much like Turdurf. The name of the map will never be Turdurf.
I am not taking issue with their being roads I'm taking issue with how they are structured. Its always been 4 roads from the cardinal directions with little side roads off them. Why do we have to keep doing it that way?
So we can build more roads. I was planning to do more than just the four straight ones, but whatever. Since no matter what I'll do I'll just end up pissing everyone off, I'm just going to dig canals.
Bahh you dont piss everyone off, you do good work and build cool things! I really hope boats are fixed enough that canals are viable, maybe I should just grab the minecraft server jar and try it out myself.
A long time ago we did canals, but we did them underground. It was pretty cool having these 1000+ block tunnels underground big enough that a glitchy boat wouldn't crash.
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Skylarko7 Vile Rat o7o7 Photon Torpedo o7Registered Userregular
tl;dr Fine, if you don't want roads, I will canal the shit out of the Thirdurf.
Thirdurf is a stupid name. I'm gonna smash my face into the keyboard until someone comes up with something better, or something amazing happens.
I know you're not suggesting it is the name of the new map Maya but I have to say something. It will not be Thirdurf. It is far too much like Turdurf. The name of the map will never be Turdurf.
Tertia? (Tershia)
Trinitearth? Triniterf?
Regarding roads, no cardinal directions, and roads never have right of way. If I build a life size replica of West Edmonton Mall, the road can go the fuck around.
Keep in mind, some of us like to build shacks in the woods for a certain level of privacy. Maybe I'm a crazy hermit, but having a town and major road develop just behind a copse of trees would be a bit annoying.
The standard server rules already cover this, of course.
Posts
You don't need roads. I for one thing it would be 100x better for people to set off in random directions, find interesting landforms, and then build at them. Hell, I'd even say that there should be no map for like a 30 day grace period, let constructs gain fame on their own, let the builders choose whether they want to link their sites with roads.
before the borders came down?
We started at a 4000 x 4000 square on our current map, but we will probably be doing a 6000 x 6000 circle this time though we are having some debate if that is too large to start or not.
Also the purpose of the border is 3 fold, First is that we want to promote cooperative building what with being a multiplayer server and all. Second we want a controlled expansion of the map when either we feel its necessary or when new biomes/ores require it. Third is we want to keep the file size down so its easier to move around or make manual backups ect.
Yes, we do. It is simply a fact. When the north/frontier/whatever was opened up on this map, it took me months* to finally get that thing finished. People had all the time in the world to move out there while the road and rail slooooooowly crept along, but the only people that went out there ahead of the road past that swamp were the builders of Dorfhold (which was kinda sorta cheated in) and Wu who needed a big remote place to build his Hagia Sophia replica. That was it. Beyond that swamp past the Ispawnbul desert, every other development came significantly later after the road was already established and the rail fully functional and linkable. I kept track because I was sad for a long time that I was putting down this nice long road and nobody was moving out there to use it.
*with some help from CRT, and Enc built the dragon head.
Also @eldercore it was 4kx4k.
sweet thank you!
What he was getting at is that you don't need the roads until there is a reason to use them, and you kind of proved that with your example of the frontier road. It didn't need to be built until it had people it had to connect back somewhere. If we wait to build roads we can dictate where they need to go by where people have settled and it provides a more organic road pattern then simply sticking to cardinal directions. One of the reasons we have a no build setup around spawn was to promote more organic building and have it be not quite so structured.
edit: I guess my point is lets try something different this time. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't but its something new rather then just redoing what we did on our current map. I for one am really excited to see us make a nether rail, we've never done it before and I think it would be a lot of fun actually making a large nether centric project.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
No roads = very little development
If you do not build the roads in the first place, people will not move there.
Look on the current map, just in the 4k by 4k opening area. Where the roads had been built ahead of time, people moved in and around. Out on the margins where the roads aren't nearby, nobody lives. A lot of those places are not inhabited at all. There is no "oh we can build roads once people are there." No one moves there, so then you don't build roads, and because you don't build roads, nobody moves there, so it's large tracts of big empty space. The roads have to come first.
Alright, so maybe we'll try having Nether rails instead. I have no idea how that's supposed to make things more 'organic'. People will just follow the rails and then throw down a portal a little ways from the previous person, effectively just going a bit further down the 'road.' This is exactly the same thing just with less resources used for rails. You'll still have people mostly building around whatever axes, just now the 'road' is hidden. People follow the infrastructure. You must have some infrastructure of some kind or people will not go out there.
tl;dr Fine, if you don't want roads, I will canal the shit out of the Thirdurf.
I am not taking issue with their being roads I'm taking issue with how they are structured. Its always been 4 roads from the cardinal directions with little side roads off them. Why do we have to keep doing it that way?
Maybe just have rules for road construction - allow people to build little trails, but full roads can only be built under specific circumstances?
I just don't like the mind set that there has to be a road before people settle an area. It just seems to me that building a road when it has nothing to connect to on the other end is kind of a waste in time, when doing something like building a road between 2 people to allow them to connect to each other more easily would be a better use of time.
edit: Not to mention its not our job to tell you guys how to do stuff (rules not withstanding), its up to you all how you want this map to progress and the direction it goes.
So we can build more roads. I was planning to do more than just the four straight ones, but whatever. Since no matter what I'll do I'll just end up pissing everyone off, I'm just going to dig canals.
Thirdurf is a stupid name. I'm gonna smash my face into the keyboard until someone comes up with something better, or something amazing happens.
I know you're not suggesting it is the name of the new map Maya but I have to say something. It will not be Thirdurf. It is far too much like Turdurf. The name of the map will never be Turdurf.
Bahh you dont piss everyone off, you do good work and build cool things! I really hope boats are fixed enough that canals are viable, maybe I should just grab the minecraft server jar and try it out myself.
A long time ago we did canals, but we did them underground. It was pretty cool having these 1000+ block tunnels underground big enough that a glitchy boat wouldn't crash.
:^:
Tertia? (Tershia)
Trinitearth? Triniterf?
Regarding roads, no cardinal directions, and roads never have right of way. If I build a life size replica of West Edmonton Mall, the road can go the fuck around.
This sounds right, it'll be the 6th map ive played on.
I mean, we don't have to call it that, I just want to make sure I'm not the only old man in the world.
Hexerf
Am I that old?
This is a documentary about my life from the future.
It's the name of the planet the Thundercats live on during the show (but not the name of their home planet!).
Probably whoever came up with it wasn't counting the number of maps, just referencing nerd things.
It'll be TURFDURF.
uh no.since this is the 4th map, how about querf
or howabout panderf (play on pandora)
caliperf (calipso)
nukerf (nuka)
https://dust514.com/recruit/kUfWrW/
The standard server rules already cover this, of course.
Hexterra
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this is the most beautiful thing
there will be no durfin' on our turf
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
keep that in your troll communes
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