Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Not to mention the bouncers in the club, the electricians, the musicians, the DJs, the truck drivers who bring the liquor and food, the cooks, the manager, the local cops, the city workers that laid down the streets and wired the electric grids, and everyone else who makes society run to allow you the honor of doing your all-important job of taking caps off of bottles.
Yeah, you take away any of those other guys, and I highly doubt people will line up to give you money for pouring a shot of vodka.
Fucking egotistical prick. I tip everyone, and a good experience usually gets a 50% tip outta me, but if I was at a club/bar and you were watering down my friends' drinks and/or ignoring them because they weren't tipping, there would be a situation.
slurpeepoop on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
No, because if he worked my job then he'd damn well be on the same page as me about tips.
Just so you're aware, I have a deliberate dislike of arrogant twits - so rest assured that if you gave me excellent service but acted, well, like that (Assuming you know better just because you're THE BARTENDER (cue theme music)), you'd get diddly for a tip, while the bartender in the dive a few blocks away with shitty skills but fantastic personality and interaction gets 30%+.
I don't act arrogant behind the bar. If you'd go back and read you'd see that I'm generally very happy and loving behind the bar. I have an amazing customer base that comes back time and time again to see me. God forbid you waltz into my bar expecting to treat me like shit though because you're in a restaurant and you think being the customer makes you God.
No, because if he worked my job then he'd damn well be on the same page as me about tips.
Again, your witty comments leave absolutely nothing to be desired :roll:
You have no idea what this person may or may not think if they had to do your job but keep acting like everyone has to have the same opinion as you or else they are mentally handicapped. Maybe you will wind up convincing us...
...but then again I doubt it.
Materly on
When life gives you lemons, you squeeze the lemon juice into your enemies eyes and steal his apples - Runoir
It's a lot of fun actually when it comes down to it.
Unless some asshole doesn't tip for mediocre service. Then it adds to the internal rage which you later have to vent on a poor, unsuspecting technology forum.
Boilerbird on
"The Lord of Murder shall perish. But in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos will be sown from their passage."
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Mario Kart friend code: 227.692.747.075
Tetris friend code: 742.696.731.030
Pokemon code: 2921 5590 8486
Super Smash Bros. Brawl: 0602-5937-3565
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Not to mention the bouncers in the club, the electricians, the musicians, the DJs, the truck drivers who bring the liquor and food, the cooks, the manager, the local cops, the city workers that laid down the streets and wired the electric grids, and everyone else who makes society run to allow you the honor of doing your all-important job of taking caps off of bottles.
Yeah, you take away any of those other guys, and I highly doubt people will line up to give you money for pouring a shot of vodka.
Fucking egotistical prick. I tip everyone, and a good experience usually gets a 50% tip outta me, but if I was at a club/bar and you were watering down my friends' drinks and/or ignoring them because they weren't tipping, there would be a situation.
Oh please. There would not be. What would this "situation be", pray tell?
My job involves WAY more than taking the caps off bottles. If you think that's all it entails I invite you to come in and step behind the bar on a busy night. You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
On top of all that, all those jobs you just named are professions that make way more than minimum wage.
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
It's a lot of fun actually when it comes down to it.
Unless some asshole doesn't tip for mediocre service. Then it adds to the internal rage which you later have to vent on a poor, unsuspecting technology forum.
Exactly. :P
But I don't give mediocre service unless it's called for. ;-)
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Haha. Do you tip IT?
By his reasoning, I should have gotten tipped for teaching my classes, for holding office hours, and for running discussion sections. It took skill and competence, I had to help people (who were frequently belligerent), and it was most certainly not an entry level position...
I hate to get dragged into this, but I think it doesn't make sense at all. Some people you tip, some you don't, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't mean that you don't tip, but it also doesn't mean that those who get tipped do so for any special reason.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
No, no they don't. It can be done by almost anyone and learned in a week or two. There is no complex thought involved. Unless you're some kind of superstar bartender to the stars, which you make it sound like.
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Not to mention the bouncers in the club, the electricians, the musicians, the DJs, the truck drivers who bring the liquor and food, the cooks, the manager, the local cops, the city workers that laid down the streets and wired the electric grids, and everyone else who makes society run to allow you the honor of doing your all-important job of taking caps off of bottles.
Yeah, you take away any of those other guys, and I highly doubt people will line up to give you money for pouring a shot of vodka.
Fucking egotistical prick. I tip everyone, and a good experience usually gets a 50% tip outta me, but if I was at a club/bar and you were watering down my friends' drinks and/or ignoring them because they weren't tipping, there would be a situation.
I think tipping the bartender (which I've never been in the situation of doing) depends on what you're ordering. Bottled beers/drinks where you just get handed an opened bottle? I'd probably give him a little bit but not much. Drafts? A bit more, because he has to actually get my drink and fill it and what-not. Mixed drinks? This is where the tips should be, because he's gotta know what you're ordering, how to mix it, and know it well enough to pretty much eyeball it so it's what you want but get it to you in a hurry so he can move on to the next person. I think that deserves a pretty good tip.
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
So do lots of other traditionally non-tipped jobs. If skill was the only measure of whether one deserved a tip then we'd be tipping doctors, nurses, lawyers, airplane pilots, firefighters, police officers, accountants, and members of myriad other professions.
You're defending tips because you're making tips.
jclast on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
Right there is the problem Esh. The assumption that anyone who disagrees with you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to hack it as a bartender because only people with YOUR mind can POSSIBLY do what YOU do. Get off your high horse. It says lots about you and nothing about the difficulty of your job.
Come do my job for a week. How far would you get? (I design asset tracking/RFID/barcode data collection systems).
I'm not trying to say that your job isn't hard. I'm saying that it isn't special and that you shouldn't feel entitled to some of my money just because you handed me a beer.
Materly on
When life gives you lemons, you squeeze the lemon juice into your enemies eyes and steal his apples - Runoir
No, because if he worked my job then he'd damn well be on the same page as me about tips.
Just so you're aware, I have a deliberate dislike of arrogant twits - so rest assured that if you gave me excellent service but acted, well, like that (Assuming you know better just because you're THE BARTENDER (cue theme music)), you'd get diddly for a tip, while the bartender in the dive a few blocks away with shitty skills but fantastic personality and interaction gets 30%+.
I agree, its a lot more than just service. Personality and interaction goes along way as well.
If I am happy I normally tip 15-20% of the tab.
::cues bartender theme::
But I agree with so many other people in this topic, Esh is being a complete ass. Dude you could be gods gift to bartenders but if you give me crap about your tip, you can expect a shiny penny. Your tip is a gift, your not entitled to it.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Haha. Do you tip IT?
By his reasoning, I should have gotten tipped for teaching my classes, for holding office hours, and for running discussion sections. It took skill and competence, I had to help people (who were frequently belligerent), and it was most certainly not an entry level position...
I hate to get dragged into this, but I think it doesn't make sense at all. Some people you tip, some you don't, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't mean that you don't tip, but it also doesn't mean that those who get tipped do so for any special reason.
You also make more than I do wage wise.
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
Right there is the problem Esh. The assumption that anyone who disagrees with you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to hack it as a bartender because only people with YOUR mind can POSSIBLY do what YOU do. Get off your high horse. It says lots about you and nothing about the difficulty of your job.
Come do my job for a week. How far would you get? (I design asset tracking/RFID/barcode data collection systems).
Yeah, but I'm not saying I COULD do your job, am I?
I'm an aerodynamics engineer, and now I'm incredibly pissed that I don't get tips. Even though I have no idea who'd tip me.
Boilerbird on
"The Lord of Murder shall perish. But in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos will be sown from their passage."
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Mario Kart friend code: 227.692.747.075
Tetris friend code: 742.696.731.030
Pokemon code: 2921 5590 8486
Super Smash Bros. Brawl: 0602-5937-3565
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
So do lots of other traditionally non-tipped jobs. If skill was the only measure of whether one deserved a tip then we'd be tipping doctors, nurses, lawyers, airplane pilots, firefighters, police officers, accountants, and members of myriad other professions.
You're defending tips because you're making tips.
Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again.
Esh on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
Right there is the problem Esh. The assumption that anyone who disagrees with you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to hack it as a bartender because only people with YOUR mind can POSSIBLY do what YOU do. Get off your high horse. It says lots about you and nothing about the difficulty of your job.
Come do my job for a week. How far would you get? (I design asset tracking/RFID/barcode data collection systems).
Yeah, but I'm not saying I COULD do your job, am I?
No but you're saying yours is obviously more difficult and demanding since I don't agree that people should be falling over each other to give you money.
EDIT: And if you think you don't make enough without tips, take that up with the person that signs your cheques, not the populace at large.
Esh, you're argument's breaking down again. You just said tips are required for people who make minimum wage, and then said tips are for people who don't make minimum wage.
It's a tiring argument, and there have been several calls to move it. Let's just take this over to D&D and let everyone recharge?
drhazard on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
No, no they don't. It can be done by almost anyone and learned in a week or two. There is no complex thought involved. Unless you're some kind of superstar bartender to the stars, which you make it sound like.
No, no it can't. I've seen plenty of terrrrrible bartenders. It takes quite a bit more skill than you seem to think. You tell me my job doesn't involve complex thought when I've got 20 drinks in my head and 30 people are all clambering about and shouting for my attention while I try to keep in my head who amongst all these people is next in line while I'm juggling 5 or 6 bottles of liquor at a time. Nevermind that the cocktailers are also coming at me with drink orders. And in all this I have to keep a cool head and smile and do my job well.
People do generally not stand in an orderly line and patiently place their drinks orders one at a time.
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
Right there is the problem Esh. The assumption that anyone who disagrees with you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to hack it as a bartender because only people with YOUR mind can POSSIBLY do what YOU do. Get off your high horse. It says lots about you and nothing about the difficulty of your job.
Come do my job for a week. How far would you get? (I design asset tracking/RFID/barcode data collection systems).
Yeah, but I'm not saying I COULD do your job, am I?
No but you're saying yours is obviously more difficult and demanding since I don't agree that people should be falling over each other to give you money.
EDIT: And if you think you don't make enough without tips, take that up with the person that signs your cheques, not the populace at large.
But I DO make tips. So why should I complain?
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Esh, you're argument's breaking down again. You just said tips are required for people who make minimum wage, and then said tips are for people who don't make minimum wage.
It's a tiring argument, and there have been several calls to move it. Let's just take this over to D&D and let everyone recharge?
I never said either of those things. Could you do me a favor and point out those quotes to me?
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Waiting tables doesn't require you to teach old women how to use a prepaid cell phone, when they don't even know what a cell phone is, that takes more than product knowledge, patience, and understanding, that shit takes finesse.
override367 on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
No, because if he worked my job then he'd damn well be on the same page as me about tips.
Just so you're aware, I have a deliberate dislike of arrogant twits - so rest assured that if you gave me excellent service but acted, well, like that (Assuming you know better just because you're THE BARTENDER (cue theme music)), you'd get diddly for a tip, while the bartender in the dive a few blocks away with shitty skills but fantastic personality and interaction gets 30%+.
I agree, its a lot more than just service. Personality and interaction goes along way as well.
If I am happy I normally tip 15-20% of the tab.
::cues bartender theme::
But I agree with so many other people in this topic, Esh is being a complete ass. Dude you could be gods gift to bartenders but if you give me crap about your tip, you can expect a shiny penny. Your tip is a gift, your not entitled to it.
I only said if I get repeatedly STIFFED that you're gonna get crap. Comprende?
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Haha. Do you tip IT?
By his reasoning, I should have gotten tipped for teaching my classes, for holding office hours, and for running discussion sections. It took skill and competence, I had to help people (who were frequently belligerent), and it was most certainly not an entry level position...
I hate to get dragged into this, but I think it doesn't make sense at all. Some people you tip, some you don't, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't mean that you don't tip, but it also doesn't mean that those who get tipped do so for any special reason.
You also make more than I do wage wise.
But earlier you said that your tip decorum stays the same even if the tippee makes more than minimum wage. (and if you want to get technical, my salary placed me below the poverty line in California, as I only made about $16,000 a year).
Don't worry, I see your point though: only those in the food service industry have the unique confluence of skill and wage earnings that makes them deserving of tips :roll:
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
So do lots of other traditionally non-tipped jobs. If skill was the only measure of whether one deserved a tip then we'd be tipping doctors, nurses, lawyers, airplane pilots, firefighters, police officers, accountants, and members of myriad other professions.
You're defending tips because you're making tips.
Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again.
You said that wage didn't have anything to do with it. You said it was about skill and competence. Your only critera (quoted in this very tree) was that bartenders were worth tipping because the job isn't entry level and requires some skill. There are lots of jobs that aren't entry level and require skill.
It's not my fault that you chose a job whose typical salary is minimum plus tips. If I had to choose one profession that genuinely deserved tips (in my opinion), isn't entry-level, and requires skill then it would be teachers. Their salaries are woefully small for the amount of hours typically worked, and their job has got to one of the most stressful known to man.
jclast on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
Haha. Do you tip IT?
By his reasoning, I should have gotten tipped for teaching my classes, for holding office hours, and for running discussion sections. It took skill and competence, I had to help people (who were frequently belligerent), and it was most certainly not an entry level position...
I hate to get dragged into this, but I think it doesn't make sense at all. Some people you tip, some you don't, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't mean that you don't tip, but it also doesn't mean that those who get tipped do so for any special reason.
You also make more than I do wage wise.
But earlier you said that your tip decorum stays the same even if the tippee makes more than minimum wage. (and if you want to get technical, my salary placed me below the poverty line in California, as I only made about $16,000 a year).
Don't worry, I see your point though: only those in the food service industry have the unique confluence of skill and wage earnings that makes them deserving of tips :roll:
No, I didn't say that. Please find that quote and post it. I'm thinking you misread something.
Esh on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Don't worry, I see your point though: only those in the food service industry have the unique confluence of skill and wage earnings that makes them deserving of tips :roll:
So long as it's a sit down non-fast food restaraunt or pub/lounge/bar. Because all those people can suck it up.
Pjstelford said, "Should tipping still be mandatory?" You replied, "Yup." This, you definitely said.
Then you argued that skilled workers that make more than minimum wage shouldn't be tipped. At least, you implied it: "Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again."
Both pro and anti tippers, the debate seems to be revolving around the fact that tip-enabled staff are paid a wage of below minimum wage. Does your tip decorum still stand when the employee is making minimum wage or above? My Macaroni Grill hires servers who have never served before, and the starting wage is $8.25 an hour. Should tipping still be mandatory?
Yup.
Then I submit that you should tip retail cashiers, grocery store stockers and baggers and anyone else who is in a customer service job. Every single one.
Nope. Because those are entry level positions. Bartending and waiting tables with any degree of competence on the other hand requires quite the amount of skill. Sorry.
So do lots of other traditionally non-tipped jobs. If skill was the only measure of whether one deserved a tip then we'd be tipping doctors, nurses, lawyers, airplane pilots, firefighters, police officers, accountants, and members of myriad other professions.
You're defending tips because you're making tips.
Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again.
You said that wage didn't have anything to do with it. You said it was about skill and competence. Your only critera (quoted in this very tree) was that bartenders were worth tipping because the job isn't entry level and requires some skill. There are lots of jobs that aren't entry level and require skill.
It's not my fault that you chose a job whose typical salary is minimum plus tips. If I had to choose one profession that genuinely deserved tips (in my opinion), isn't entry-level, and requires skill then it would be teachers. Their salaries are woefully small for the amount of hours typically worked, and their job has got to one of the most stressful known to man.
*sigh*
No, I was stating in the world of restaurants where it is the norm and expected to tip out bartenders/waiters. If there wasn't tipping, we would make as much as say cooks and chefs and what not.
And most non-entry level positions that don't involve tipping make quite a bit more than minimum. So, yes, no tipping there.
And trust me, I'm not complaining about my job overall. I cleared around 40k last year.
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
No, I didn't say that. Please find that quote and post it. I'm thinking you misread something.
Someone asked if tipping should be mandatory if the waiter at the Macaroni Grill makes more than minimum wage. You said yes.
EDIT: hi5 drhazard
I generally forget that most states have a much lower minimum than Oregon (7.80). Even if they did make 8.25 or whatever I'd still tip because it's a restaurant. And they're waiting on me. And I appreciate that.
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Pjstelford said, "Should tipping still be mandatory?" You replied, "Yup." This, you definitely said.
Then you argued that skilled workers that make more than minimum wage shouldn't be tipped. At least, you implied it: "Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again."
You're comparing people who make $20+ an hour to someone who makes minimum or less and who works in an industry where tipping is part of the game.
Pjstelford said, "Should tipping still be mandatory?" You replied, "Yup." This, you definitely said.
Then you argued that skilled workers that make more than minimum wage shouldn't be tipped. At least, you implied it: "Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again."
You're comparing people who make $20+ an hour to someone who makes minimum or less and who works in an industry where tipping is part of the game.
Just because others are doing well doesn't mean that the system isn't broken and retarded. My making more money than you doesn't entitle you to some of my cash just for doing your job. Tipping shouldn't be mandatory; that's part of what makes it a tip. A bonus. A gratuity. A thank-you for a job well-done. If somebody in the food and beverage service industry performs in a mediocre manner then why should I reward them for it?
jclast on
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
I hate to be the one to spoil the party here, but this "debate" has pushed out a huge number of pages in the past couple days. It's almost ridiculous.
I want to suggest the debate gets moved to its own thread in D&D, rather than in here. The cool job stories are getting lost in the sea of "zomg u should tip bettar!" and "tips r 4 nubs!"
Posts
Haha. Do you tip IT?
Not to mention the bouncers in the club, the electricians, the musicians, the DJs, the truck drivers who bring the liquor and food, the cooks, the manager, the local cops, the city workers that laid down the streets and wired the electric grids, and everyone else who makes society run to allow you the honor of doing your all-important job of taking caps off of bottles.
Yeah, you take away any of those other guys, and I highly doubt people will line up to give you money for pouring a shot of vodka.
Fucking egotistical prick. I tip everyone, and a good experience usually gets a 50% tip outta me, but if I was at a club/bar and you were watering down my friends' drinks and/or ignoring them because they weren't tipping, there would be a situation.
I don't act arrogant behind the bar. If you'd go back and read you'd see that I'm generally very happy and loving behind the bar. I have an amazing customer base that comes back time and time again to see me. God forbid you waltz into my bar expecting to treat me like shit though because you're in a restaurant and you think being the customer makes you God.
Again, your witty comments leave absolutely nothing to be desired :roll:
You have no idea what this person may or may not think if they had to do your job but keep acting like everyone has to have the same opinion as you or else they are mentally handicapped. Maybe you will wind up convincing us...
...but then again I doubt it.
Unless some asshole doesn't tip for mediocre service. Then it adds to the internal rage which you later have to vent on a poor, unsuspecting technology forum.
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
Mario Kart friend code: 227.692.747.075
Tetris friend code: 742.696.731.030
Pokemon code: 2921 5590 8486
Super Smash Bros. Brawl: 0602-5937-3565
Oh please. There would not be. What would this "situation be", pray tell?
My job involves WAY more than taking the caps off bottles. If you think that's all it entails I invite you to come in and step behind the bar on a busy night. You'd be floundering and sweating in 60 seconds time.
On top of all that, all those jobs you just named are professions that make way more than minimum wage.
Exactly. :P
But I don't give mediocre service unless it's called for. ;-)
By his reasoning, I should have gotten tipped for teaching my classes, for holding office hours, and for running discussion sections. It took skill and competence, I had to help people (who were frequently belligerent), and it was most certainly not an entry level position...
I hate to get dragged into this, but I think it doesn't make sense at all. Some people you tip, some you don't, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't mean that you don't tip, but it also doesn't mean that those who get tipped do so for any special reason.
No, no they don't. It can be done by almost anyone and learned in a week or two. There is no complex thought involved. Unless you're some kind of superstar bartender to the stars, which you make it sound like.
I think tipping the bartender (which I've never been in the situation of doing) depends on what you're ordering. Bottled beers/drinks where you just get handed an opened bottle? I'd probably give him a little bit but not much. Drafts? A bit more, because he has to actually get my drink and fill it and what-not. Mixed drinks? This is where the tips should be, because he's gotta know what you're ordering, how to mix it, and know it well enough to pretty much eyeball it so it's what you want but get it to you in a hurry so he can move on to the next person. I think that deserves a pretty good tip.
So do lots of other traditionally non-tipped jobs. If skill was the only measure of whether one deserved a tip then we'd be tipping doctors, nurses, lawyers, airplane pilots, firefighters, police officers, accountants, and members of myriad other professions.
You're defending tips because you're making tips.
Right there is the problem Esh. The assumption that anyone who disagrees with you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be able to hack it as a bartender because only people with YOUR mind can POSSIBLY do what YOU do. Get off your high horse. It says lots about you and nothing about the difficulty of your job.
Come do my job for a week. How far would you get? (I design asset tracking/RFID/barcode data collection systems).
I agree, its a lot more than just service. Personality and interaction goes along way as well.
If I am happy I normally tip 15-20% of the tab.
::cues bartender theme::
But I agree with so many other people in this topic, Esh is being a complete ass. Dude you could be gods gift to bartenders but if you give me crap about your tip, you can expect a shiny penny. Your tip is a gift, your not entitled to it.
You also make more than I do wage wise.
Yeah, but I'm not saying I COULD do your job, am I?
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
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Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again.
No but you're saying yours is obviously more difficult and demanding since I don't agree that people should be falling over each other to give you money.
EDIT: And if you think you don't make enough without tips, take that up with the person that signs your cheques, not the populace at large.
It's a tiring argument, and there have been several calls to move it. Let's just take this over to D&D and let everyone recharge?
No, no it can't. I've seen plenty of terrrrrible bartenders. It takes quite a bit more skill than you seem to think. You tell me my job doesn't involve complex thought when I've got 20 drinks in my head and 30 people are all clambering about and shouting for my attention while I try to keep in my head who amongst all these people is next in line while I'm juggling 5 or 6 bottles of liquor at a time. Nevermind that the cocktailers are also coming at me with drink orders. And in all this I have to keep a cool head and smile and do my job well.
People do generally not stand in an orderly line and patiently place their drinks orders one at a time.
But I DO make tips. So why should I complain?
I never said either of those things. Could you do me a favor and point out those quotes to me?
Waiting tables doesn't require you to teach old women how to use a prepaid cell phone, when they don't even know what a cell phone is, that takes more than product knowledge, patience, and understanding, that shit takes finesse.
I only said if I get repeatedly STIFFED that you're gonna get crap. Comprende?
But earlier you said that your tip decorum stays the same even if the tippee makes more than minimum wage. (and if you want to get technical, my salary placed me below the poverty line in California, as I only made about $16,000 a year).
Don't worry, I see your point though: only those in the food service industry have the unique confluence of skill and wage earnings that makes them deserving of tips :roll:
You said that wage didn't have anything to do with it. You said it was about skill and competence. Your only critera (quoted in this very tree) was that bartenders were worth tipping because the job isn't entry level and requires some skill. There are lots of jobs that aren't entry level and require skill.
It's not my fault that you chose a job whose typical salary is minimum plus tips. If I had to choose one profession that genuinely deserved tips (in my opinion), isn't entry-level, and requires skill then it would be teachers. Their salaries are woefully small for the amount of hours typically worked, and their job has got to one of the most stressful known to man.
No, I didn't say that. Please find that quote and post it. I'm thinking you misread something.
So long as it's a sit down non-fast food restaraunt or pub/lounge/bar. Because all those people can suck it up.
Then you argued that skilled workers that make more than minimum wage shouldn't be tipped. At least, you implied it: "Once again, those professions make WAY more than minumum wage. Try again."
Someone asked if tipping should be mandatory if the waiter at the Macaroni Grill makes more than minimum wage. You said yes.
EDIT: hi5 drhazard
*sigh*
No, I was stating in the world of restaurants where it is the norm and expected to tip out bartenders/waiters. If there wasn't tipping, we would make as much as say cooks and chefs and what not.
And most non-entry level positions that don't involve tipping make quite a bit more than minimum. So, yes, no tipping there.
And trust me, I'm not complaining about my job overall. I cleared around 40k last year.
I generally forget that most states have a much lower minimum than Oregon (7.80). Even if they did make 8.25 or whatever I'd still tip because it's a restaurant. And they're waiting on me. And I appreciate that.
You're comparing people who make $20+ an hour to someone who makes minimum or less and who works in an industry where tipping is part of the game.
That is a wonderful idea. :P
I love when people who have never done my job try to argue it with me.
Just because others are doing well doesn't mean that the system isn't broken and retarded. My making more money than you doesn't entitle you to some of my cash just for doing your job. Tipping shouldn't be mandatory; that's part of what makes it a tip. A bonus. A gratuity. A thank-you for a job well-done. If somebody in the food and beverage service industry performs in a mediocre manner then why should I reward them for it?
I want to suggest the debate gets moved to its own thread in D&D, rather than in here. The cool job stories are getting lost in the sea of "zomg u should tip bettar!" and "tips r 4 nubs!"