Yeah Australia to me seems like a terrible idea. Aussie law is pretty draconian when it comes to video games, and the UK or even Canada would have seemed like a much better choice
He was with an exhibitor from a developer with a big game coming out this year so i'd trust he knows what he was talking about. He wasn't so much taking about how portable booths are he was more taking about just cost. I know my ticket round trip from just LAX here and back was almost 400 with bagage fees. I can't imagine how much more expensive from LAX to an AU airport would be. For simplicities sake let's say its 800, now multiply that by 10 to 15 for your employees. That's 8 to 12 grand just to get your employees there.
Since you brought it up to. Let's talk about booth and merch, they'd still need to get them there which costs money too. Let's say it costs 5 grand to move their booth and all that merch from again LAX to here and back. So let's double that and make it 10 to go from LAX to AU.
Now none of this is even taking into account passport and custom fees, but even so that's 18 to 22 grand per developer to go from prime to AU.
They already for the most part make little to no money from PAX so kinda hard to understand why they'd spend even more to go so far. Honestly kinda surprised they didn't do a london pax since most major developers do have EU offices and teams
Don't forget that all of the big names in the industry will have Australian (or at least combined Asia-Pacific) offices as well as the London office you mention, each with their own full-time staff and marketing budget so booth construction and merchandise can all be sourced locally without any expensive trans-pacific distribution costs. The only transport cost that's probably unavoidable will be flying one or two members of the dev team to handle any media requests or technical issues that can't be dealt with by the local PR team; but unless the dev team is based in Seattle or Boston then they would have been flying/staying in hotels anyway (and with an increasing number of AAA games made outside of North America, it may well be closer/cheaper for them to get to Australia).
I would imagine that the decision to hold a PAX in Australia has more to do with the partners that PA has found than anything else. In the past, Australian exhibitors have gone out of their way to entice PVP, for example, and it's likely that some large exhibitor made a strong offer to partner with PA for the event.
Incidentally, airfare from the States is about two thousand dollars, not 800.
Yeah Australia to me seems like a terrible idea. Aussie law is pretty draconian when it comes to video games, and the UK or even Canada would have seemed like a much better choice
The only "draconian law" in regards to games in Australia is the lack of an 18+ rating, meaning anything that doesn't fit into the MA15+ rating is refused sale. However, January 1 2013 is when a new law introducing an R18+ rating comes into effect. The only other issue with games is the absurd pricing which has nothing to do with laws, but asshole publishers.
I've heard that the stupid prices on games is under attack as well, and Oz may soon have similar entertainment prices as the rest of the civilized world.
As for Airfare, yes it is expensive. Seattle to Sydney in early August is roughly $1600 round trip. June will probably be similar.
I've heard that the stupid prices on games is under attack as well, and Oz may soon have similar entertainment prices as the rest of the civilized world.
As for Airfare, yes it is expensive. Seattle to Sydney in early August is roughly $1600 round trip. June will probably be similar.
Yeah I was doing really bad hotel math. I knew it was gonna be expensive so I just said double what mine was for simplicity. So let's change that 800 to 1600. If we use my previous example at 10 to 15 people since that's what most of the booths I saw have that means just getting a team there would be 16000 to 2400 let's also for.arguments a sake also double the cost to get that booth there.,i said ten let's bump it up to twenty and add another 2 for passports and customs.
That's roughly 28 to 36 gand just to demo there. Do you really think any american or european developer will go for that much. I Honestly see AU PAX being only AU developers, and I can't imagine there being that many.
Have faith, you get thousands of gamers in one place at a show with a proven reputation like PAX, and exhibitors will be there. It sounds like the gaming industry down under is growing rapidly and with the new laws and hopefully balancing of prices about to boom. Any exhibitor that doesn't show runs the risk of not being well placed to tap that market.
It may actually be cheaper for US companies to commission new booth builds in Australia rather than ship all that equipment (water freight takes nearly a month, by the way). Now once all those pretty booths and equipment are assembled, it would be silly to use them only once a year. AuPAX may encourage these companies to branch out and exhibit & market MORE across Australia and cater to that population more than they already are. Companies can also send select representatives to lead their exhibits and hire local help once there.
Companies often get business flight and hotel discounts too. There are ways to do this while sticking to a budget, and I don't think the money will detract the larger exhibitors from showing up if it means tapping a market with a freshly updated ratings system.
Yeah Australia to me seems like a terrible idea. Aussie law is pretty draconian when it comes to video games, and the UK or even Canada would have seemed like a much better choice
the new r18+ comes into effect in 2013 so by the time it comes the rating is already in effect!
EDIT: I have faith in the PA team to bring PAX to Australia.
thegh0sts on
Next PAX: PAX AUS 2017
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
June would be a terrible time to have PAX here, it's mid-winter and it's going to be wet and miserable. Far better to have it sometime in February/March April or in September/October/November.
And Sydney or Melbourne are the best places. Not Brisbane. I can think Homebush or Darling Harbour in Sydney would be ideal. The big conventions here usually tour cities to get more people, so that's an idea.
True, but that's only about a month after PAX Prime, and in the middle of school holidays (at least in Sydney).
also true, though i think there's gonna be a major shift of dates for already established PAXs.
I highly doubt that would ever happen. To my knowledge they have a lonjg contract with the wscc for laborday weekend and assumedly its the same for wheever they hold east. Plus those are both major holiday weekends that allow for more people tolcome. They wouldn't randomly make it oct 20 to 23bhecause then no one would go. Were probably looking at either between east and prime or after prime and before east
Well the Queen's Birthday long weekend is June 8-10 next year (except Qld & WA). That's about 2.5 months from East and nearly 3 months to Prime.
Going the other way you are going to be running in to Xmas/New Years + the long school holiday break.
I've heard that the stupid prices on games is under attack as well, and Oz may soon have similar entertainment prices as the rest of the civilized world.
As for Airfare, yes it is expensive. Seattle to Sydney in early August is roughly $1600 round trip. June will probably be similar.
Yeah I was doing really bad hotel math. I knew it was gonna be expensive so I just said double what mine was for simplicity. So let's change that 800 to 1600. If we use my previous example at 10 to 15 people since that's what most of the booths I saw have that means just getting a team there would be 16000 to 2400 let's also for.arguments a sake also double the cost to get that booth there.,i said ten let's bump it up to twenty and add another 2 for passports and customs.
That's roughly 28 to 36 gand just to demo there. Do you really think any american or european developer will go for that much. I Honestly see AU PAX being only AU developers, and I can't imagine there being that many.
Have faith, you get thousands of gamers in one place ...
Unless those thousands come from overseas, I fear this will only be a small-scale affair.
Supernova, various city-specific cons, and the EB expo pull attendance numbers in the thousands (for instance, Wai-con here in Perth gets over 4K a year now). I'm pretty sure that Australia could muster up over 15K or so for a PAX. Small, yes, but still pretty decent considering. And then let's not forget NZ, Asia and elsewhere internationally!
True, but that's only about a month after PAX Prime, and in the middle of school holidays (at least in Sydney).
also true, though i think there's gonna be a major shift of dates for already established PAXs.
I highly doubt that would ever happen. To my knowledge they have a lonjg contract with the wscc for laborday weekend and assumedly its the same for wheever they hold east. Plus those are both major holiday weekends that allow for more people tolcome. They wouldn't randomly make it oct 20 to 23bhecause then no one would go. Were probably looking at either between east and prime or after prime and before east
fair enough, now i feel there isn't enough time in the calendar to have a 3rd PAX and have a sufficient break between PAXs.
Next PAX: PAX AUS 2017
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
Supernova, various city-specific cons, and the EB expo pull attendance numbers in the thousands (for instance, Wai-con here in Perth gets over 4K a year now). I'm pretty sure that Australia could muster up over 15K or so for a PAX. Small, yes, but still pretty decent considering. And then let's not forget NZ, Asia and elsewhere internationally!
Fair enough. My experience of Supernova in Sydney wasn't that positive but that's less of a games con anyway. If they can capture the PAX vibe even if it's on a smaller scale then it will be worth it, not to mention much cheaper for me to get to
if they host it in sydney then that would be good, if it was hosted in melbourne then booking a hotel and a plane is ok cos it's not a long flight compared to flying from sydney to seattle
Next PAX: PAX AUS 2017
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
This is fantastic news! AU is the prime location for any ASIA-PACIFIC PAX - English speaking and a destination most Asians living in the region are happy to go to for a visit. And gamers just need an excuse. I assume they already have dev/exhibitor buy-in and that the event will be small scale compared to the two US PAX. AU doesn't have the population to support these types of shows to any large degree. GENCON AU died for this very reason.
But I hope I am wrong and its a great success. I will definitely switch going to PAX Prime next year and go to AU instead.
P.S. to Khoo, don't forget to turn the booth signs upside down or they will be unreadable.
It's cost me and LewieP's Daddy £2k to come to PAX from England, and I'm just me with a job, and him with a job. I'm assuming EA has more money than I do.
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I wonder how the volunteer traditions will change for Australia? Enforcers? Cookie (Biscuit) Brigade? TWDT?
I think it will likely be an opportunity for some new (or existing but dormant) community members to step up and prepare some community events around PAXstralia. Here's hoping some of the traditions can stay alive! In lieu of those, maybe we'll get some great new traditions.
Personally I know I wouldn't be able to consistently attend Australia PAX to justify my organizing of a bar crawl. However, this is Australia and if everything I hear about it is true, a bar crawl wouldn't be all that different for its residents. It would more than likely be some sort of sober crawl where the attendees will be forced to be sober for 5 hours.
Brisbane wouldn't be all that bad of a place to have it. I probably wouldn't choose it but it's quite capable. The Brisbane Convention Centre is pretty big and is right on a train line, and it's also near South Bank which is kind of a "cultural centre" place.
Brisbane wouldn't be all that bad of a place to have it. I probably wouldn't choose it but it's quite capable. The Brisbane Convention Centre is pretty big and is right on a train line, and it's also near South Bank which is kind of a "cultural centre" place.
As someone living in Sydney I wouldn't mind having the con in Melbourne or Brisbane, it'd give me a chance for a complete gaming holiday. Of course it'd mean dealing with hotel bookings and air fares at a time when a decent number of people are also trying to get to the same place I am but I think it'd be worth it.
EmbraceThePingひきこもりWhere the Crabbits and the Iz roam and the Jungle Queen rules the plainsRegistered Userregular
edited September 2012
W00t! Sounds great. xD Too bad I'm 4000km away on the other side of the continent. =(
Guess I'll just have to wait for the sparse photo coverage and the hyperbolic yet oddly uninformative descriptions from the tens of hundreds of gamers who attend. :'|
Oh and for those who don't know better we have no restrictive laws on content nor crushingly oppressive distribution networks in Australia any more. We import all our games direct from OS.
edit: ... and +1 to upside down logos for shirts
editedit: ... and when do said shirts go on sale?
July is doubtful. No public holidays (though there are school holidays the first two weeks of July). Unless they are sticking to a two day event. June is more likely with the Queen's Birthday. It isn't as cold as July, has a long weekend and airfares are still cheap. The alternate would be October but my money is on June.
So, for all the Aussies out there, any guess at what type of numbers would mean a success for this event? Looking at local related type cons I see numbers for 2011/2012 as:
SMASH! (Japanese culture): 5k+
Supanova (pop culture): Combined attendance of 77k in four cities (individual city numbers range is 14k to 24k)
EB Expo (video game): 14k+
Avcon (video game): 17k+
Arcanacon (RPG): ?
CANCON (wargame): <1k?
I wouldn't be surprised to see 20k+ turnout for something like PAX which touches all facets of geekdom and has a an established following. Anything more than that in a single event would be a stupendous success by Aussie standards.
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Don't forget that all of the big names in the industry will have Australian (or at least combined Asia-Pacific) offices as well as the London office you mention, each with their own full-time staff and marketing budget so booth construction and merchandise can all be sourced locally without any expensive trans-pacific distribution costs. The only transport cost that's probably unavoidable will be flying one or two members of the dev team to handle any media requests or technical issues that can't be dealt with by the local PR team; but unless the dev team is based in Seattle or Boston then they would have been flying/staying in hotels anyway (and with an increasing number of AAA games made outside of North America, it may well be closer/cheaper for them to get to Australia).
Incidentally, airfare from the States is about two thousand dollars, not 800.
The only "draconian law" in regards to games in Australia is the lack of an 18+ rating, meaning anything that doesn't fit into the MA15+ rating is refused sale. However, January 1 2013 is when a new law introducing an R18+ rating comes into effect. The only other issue with games is the absurd pricing which has nothing to do with laws, but asshole publishers.
As for Airfare, yes it is expensive. Seattle to Sydney in early August is roughly $1600 round trip. June will probably be similar.
Massive Crystal Cavern!
Yeah I was doing really bad hotel math. I knew it was gonna be expensive so I just said double what mine was for simplicity. So let's change that 800 to 1600. If we use my previous example at 10 to 15 people since that's what most of the booths I saw have that means just getting a team there would be 16000 to 2400 let's also for.arguments a sake also double the cost to get that booth there.,i said ten let's bump it up to twenty and add another 2 for passports and customs.
That's roughly 28 to 36 gand just to demo there. Do you really think any american or european developer will go for that much. I Honestly see AU PAX being only AU developers, and I can't imagine there being that many.
Companies often get business flight and hotel discounts too. There are ways to do this while sticking to a budget, and I don't think the money will detract the larger exhibitors from showing up if it means tapping a market with a freshly updated ratings system.
Unless those thousands come from overseas, I fear this will only be a small-scale affair.
the new r18+ comes into effect in 2013 so by the time it comes the rating is already in effect!
EDIT: I have faith in the PA team to bring PAX to Australia.
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
And Sydney or Melbourne are the best places. Not Brisbane. I can think Homebush or Darling Harbour in Sydney would be ideal. The big conventions here usually tour cities to get more people, so that's an idea.
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
True, but that's only about a month after PAX Prime, and in the middle of school holidays (at least in Sydney).
also true, though i think there's gonna be a major shift of dates for already established PAXs.
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
I highly doubt that would ever happen. To my knowledge they have a lonjg contract with the wscc for laborday weekend and assumedly its the same for wheever they hold east. Plus those are both major holiday weekends that allow for more people tolcome. They wouldn't randomly make it oct 20 to 23bhecause then no one would go. Were probably looking at either between east and prime or after prime and before east
Going the other way you are going to be running in to Xmas/New Years + the long school holiday break.
There's plenty of devs already doing just that for this: http://ebexpo.com.au/
Supernova, various city-specific cons, and the EB expo pull attendance numbers in the thousands (for instance, Wai-con here in Perth gets over 4K a year now). I'm pretty sure that Australia could muster up over 15K or so for a PAX. Small, yes, but still pretty decent considering. And then let's not forget NZ, Asia and elsewhere internationally!
fair enough, now i feel there isn't enough time in the calendar to have a 3rd PAX and have a sufficient break between PAXs.
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
The next thing we need to work on is your rediculous game prices...
Fair enough. My experience of Supernova in Sydney wasn't that positive but that's less of a games con anyway. If they can capture the PAX vibe even if it's on a smaller scale then it will be worth it, not to mention much cheaper for me to get to
Previous PAXs: PAX Prime 2011, PAX AUS 2013
But I hope I am wrong and its a great success. I will definitely switch going to PAX Prime next year and go to AU instead.
P.S. to Khoo, don't forget to turn the booth signs upside down or they will be unreadable.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
I wonder how the volunteer traditions will change for Australia? Enforcers? Cookie (Biscuit) Brigade? TWDT?
I think it will likely be an opportunity for some new (or existing but dormant) community members to step up and prepare some community events around PAXstralia. Here's hoping some of the traditions can stay alive! In lieu of those, maybe we'll get some great new traditions.
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Pokecrawl Episode 4: The Power Of One!
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I heard that they're looking at doing it sometime in July. Maybe doing it in winter will help cut down on the BO issues?
As someone living in Sydney I wouldn't mind having the con in Melbourne or Brisbane, it'd give me a chance for a complete gaming holiday. Of course it'd mean dealing with hotel bookings and air fares at a time when a decent number of people are also trying to get to the same place I am but I think it'd be worth it.
but I say we nickname [Au] PAX to PAX Gold
Guess I'll just have to wait for the sparse photo coverage and the hyperbolic yet oddly uninformative descriptions from the tens of hundreds of gamers who attend. :'|
Oh and for those who don't know better we have no restrictive laws on content nor crushingly oppressive distribution networks in Australia any more. We import all our games direct from OS.
edit: ... and +1 to upside down logos for shirts
editedit: ... and when do said shirts go on sale?
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is a heretic.
So, for all the Aussies out there, any guess at what type of numbers would mean a success for this event? Looking at local related type cons I see numbers for 2011/2012 as:
SMASH! (Japanese culture): 5k+
Supanova (pop culture): Combined attendance of 77k in four cities (individual city numbers range is 14k to 24k)
EB Expo (video game): 14k+
Avcon (video game): 17k+
Arcanacon (RPG): ?
CANCON (wargame): <1k?
I wouldn't be surprised to see 20k+ turnout for something like PAX which touches all facets of geekdom and has a an established following. Anything more than that in a single event would be a stupendous success by Aussie standards.
/mm
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/09/05
I still LoL
Fly over, doesn't cost much Perth to Sydney.