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[TRENCHES] Thursday, October 11, 2012 - Referendum

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Posts

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    So I guess we don't get it. Unless there's some contract law that says "a credited person MUST receive this much compensation" in PA's state or something, what is the downside to being clear about who is doing what at all times? And no, twitter and forums are not clear. That's like "yeah, we didn't list a ton of the devs who did significant work in the LA Noire credits, but there's a blog you can check out with their names in it..." This isn't about compensation, it's about being BETTER than those syndicate guys who have the name of people who haven't worked on the strip for 20 years in the masthead rather than the actual artist.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I don't think my previous post contained an unreasonable level of obfuscation, but I'll try again. Drop it.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • JohnnyricoMCJohnnyricoMC Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Oh Lord, Cora the White Knight again. What does she think is going to happen, they'll roll back the rollback because she pitched a fit?

    I think her idea is that the company needs to communicate with the customers and tell them "rollback will occur on this date, and this is what you can expect" instead of just steath patching.

    Nothing pisses players off more than a company making major changes to a game without at least giving advanced notice.

    It's not her call on what to disclose to the buyers and what not. Ignoring she's breaching her NDA all the time, she's going way out of line by interfering with the PR/community manager's work. Just because what you're doing seems the right thing from your own point of view, doesn't make it the actual right thing to do and can actually be harmful, as was evidenced by Marley getting fired (whose definitive sacking was long overdue but happened for the wrong reason) during the witchunt.

    I reckon Q isn't gonna fire her due to realizing they fired the wrong person (Marley) even though he was an incompetent ass, but maybe he'll have her demoted and put on the QA chief hat once more (not demoting himself, just putting on a second hat). Or he makes another mistake and puts Isaac in that chair.

    JohnnyricoMC on
  • WraithfighterWraithfighter Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Oh Lord, Cora the White Knight again. What does she think is going to happen, they'll roll back the rollback because she pitched a fit?

    I think her idea is that the company needs to communicate with the customers and tell them "rollback will occur on this date, and this is what you can expect" instead of just steath patching.

    Nothing pisses players off more than a company making major changes to a game without at least giving advanced notice.

    It's not her call on what to disclose to the buyers and what not. Ignoring she's breaching her NDA all the time, she's going way out of line by interfering with the PR/community manager's work. Just because what you're doing seems the right thing from your own point of view, doesn't make it the actual right thing to do and can actually be harmful, as was evidenced by Marley getting fired (whose definitive sacking was long overdue but happened for the wrong reason) during the witchunt.

    I reckon Q isn't gonna fire her due to realizing they fired the wrong person (Marley) even though he was an incompetent ass, but maybe he'll have her demoted and put on the QA chief hat once more (not demoting himself, just putting on a second hat). Or he makes another mistake and puts Isaac in that chair.

    She went past deserving to be fired a long time ago.

    My problem with the Trenches can basically be summed up by Cora's attitude. Its not just "I, the lowly QA Tester, know what is best!" I mean, yeah, you DO get that in the QA groups. I was a QA tester for a while, and I definitely got that feeling, and its not without merit: QA Testers are the people that spend the most time with the final product, and their views ARE important when developing and shaping a game.

    No, its the "I fight for the users" nonsense. Let me set something straight for anyone who wants to be a good QA Tester, or to advance through the industry with QA Testing as a starting point (it DOES happen):

    Your 'duty' is not to look out for the users/players. That is not your job, nor should it EVER be your job (while you're in QA, anyway).

    Your job is to look out for the GAME, to do what is in the best interests of the GAME. Nine times out of ten, yeah, that's going to line up. But sometimes its not, and Cora has actively sabotaged the game for her idiotic pursuit of the 'best thing for the users'. I seriously hope she's not supposed to be the hero of this comic.

    Wraithfighter on
  • Ori KleinOri Klein Registered User regular
    I seriously hope she's not supposed to be the hero of this comic.

    What makes you think there is a hero in this comic?
    Or why would you need one?

    As it seems to me, this is a tale of ordinarily screwed up people in an ordinary shit job and how their tale spans.
    The greatest thing would be to see them grow as characters out of their small and selfish perceptions and become better people in the end.

    Commander Zoom
  • plki76plki76 Registered User regular
    I am finding the lack of personable characters off-putting. For me, it's difficult to be invested in a comic where I have no investment in the welfare of anyone in the strip.

    The real-world tales are a much larger draw than the strip itself.

    (Though I must say the artwork is much improved)

    Cambiata
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    plki76 wrote: »
    I am finding the lack of personable characters off-putting. For me, it's difficult to be invested in a comic where I have no investment in the welfare of anyone in the strip.

    The real-world tales are a much larger draw than the strip itself.

    (Though I must say the artwork is much improved)

    It looks like the same font to me.

    "Never believe management about anything anywhere." -Aistan
  • WraithfighterWraithfighter Registered User regular
    plki76 wrote: »
    plki76 wrote: »
    I am finding the lack of personable characters off-putting. For me, it's difficult to be invested in a comic where I have no investment in the welfare of anyone in the strip.

    The real-world tales are a much larger draw than the strip itself.

    (Though I must say the artwork is much improved)

    Same. Especially with the real world tales (I've submitted a couple myself :) ).

    I have to admit to a worrying bit of paranoia with this comic, though: How many developers are reading The Trenches and thinking to themselves "THIS is why we can't trust QA! Even a comic that's celebrating QA has incompetents screwing up simple tests and sinking the game as a whole, and the most likable character willingly leaked out confidential information because she didn't like how the direction the developers were taking!"

    I've kinda got this urge to fly up to Seattle, find Jerry and Mike and yell at them to STOP HELPING.

  • JohnnyricoMCJohnnyricoMC Registered User regular
    plki76 wrote: »
    plki76 wrote: »
    I am finding the lack of personable characters off-putting. For me, it's difficult to be invested in a comic where I have no investment in the welfare of anyone in the strip.

    The real-world tales are a much larger draw than the strip itself.

    (Though I must say the artwork is much improved)

    Same. Especially with the real world tales (I've submitted a couple myself :) ).

    I have to admit to a worrying bit of paranoia with this comic, though: How many developers are reading The Trenches and thinking to themselves "THIS is why we can't trust QA! Even a comic that's celebrating QA has incompetents screwing up simple tests and sinking the game as a whole, and the most likable character willingly leaked out confidential information because she didn't like how the direction the developers were taking!"

    I've kinda got this urge to fly up to Seattle, find Jerry and Mike and yell at them to STOP HELPING.

    On the other hand, it shows the outside world and even games press there's something seriously wrong with the games industry: how an important part of game development (quality assurance *is* important, nobody likes buggy games and they're a surefire way to cause a decrease in review scores even when the code sent to reviewers isn't the gold master but something earlier and the reviewers are aware and have to look through a filter when deciding on a score) is underfunded and understaffed.

  • NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    There are no heroes or villains in The Trenches any more than there are heroes in Penny Arcade. The characters do silly things because it's funny. The fact that it has continuity shouldn't lead you to assume that it's more story-based than Penny Arcade, it isn't; the continuity is just a frame on which jokes are hung.

  • fearsomepiratefearsomepirate I ate a pickle once. Registered User regular
    No one who wears a utili-kilt can be considered a good person.

    Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
    PSN ID: fearsomepirate
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    He's more kilt now than man, twisted and evil.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
    CambiataSgt.Big_BubbaloolaCommander Zoom
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    There are no heroes or villains in The Trenches any more than there are heroes in Penny Arcade. The characters do silly things because it's funny. The fact that it has continuity shouldn't lead you to assume that it's more story-based than Penny Arcade, it isn't; the continuity is just a frame on which jokes are hung.
    I disagree

    steam_sig.png
    kHDRsTc.png
    Cambiata
  • WraithfighterWraithfighter Registered User regular
    There are no heroes or villains in The Trenches any more than there are heroes in Penny Arcade. The characters do silly things because it's funny. The fact that it has continuity shouldn't lead you to assume that it's more story-based than Penny Arcade, it isn't; the continuity is just a frame on which jokes are hung.

    Actually, the simple fact that it has continuity and story arcs? Yeah, its much more story-based than Penny Arcade. If it was just "Life in the day of a QA Tester", that'd be something different, but they're clearly going for story arcs here.

    (Besides, that would call the "Tron Reference" comment a joke, which would be funnier than the panel itself)

    Maybe all the chars are meant to be morally ambiguous? I dunno, because it really feels like the strip is siding with Cora through this all.

    And I would not call leaking seriously sensitive information "Silly". As noted in the strip, if you do that IRL? You get your ass sued off. Literally. They will come over with a hacksaw and carve off your ass. Those NDA's are a real bitch.

  • Sgt.Big_BubbaloolaSgt.Big_Bubbaloola Registered User regular
    He's more kilt now than man, twisted and evil.

    HA!



    Well gosh, I suppose I might as well settle in for a nice cuppa ...... this is gonna be good!
  • NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    It has story arcs, but they're not there for the sake of telling a story, they're just set-ups for the jokes. Like in Seinfeld. Or at least that's how I see it.

  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    No one who shuns a utili-kilt can be considered a good person.

    Fix'd.

  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    plki76 wrote: »
    plki76 wrote: »
    I am finding the lack of personable characters off-putting. For me, it's difficult to be invested in a comic where I have no investment in the welfare of anyone in the strip.

    The real-world tales are a much larger draw than the strip itself.

    (Though I must say the artwork is much improved)

    Same. Especially with the real world tales (I've submitted a couple myself :) ).

    I have to admit to a worrying bit of paranoia with this comic, though: How many developers are reading The Trenches and thinking to themselves "THIS is why we can't trust QA! Even a comic that's celebrating QA has incompetents screwing up simple tests and sinking the game as a whole, and the most likable character willingly leaked out confidential information because she didn't like how the direction the developers were taking!"

    I've kinda got this urge to fly up to Seattle, find Jerry and Mike and yell at them to STOP HELPING.

    On the other hand, it shows the outside world and even games press there's something seriously wrong with the games industry: how an important part of game development (quality assurance *is* important, nobody likes buggy games and they're a surefire way to cause a decrease in review scores even when the code sent to reviewers isn't the gold master but something earlier and the reviewers are aware and have to look through a filter when deciding on a score) is underfunded and understaffed.

    I think the best thing to do when there's a problem in any industry is to shine a light on it:

    How many people that were going to enter the QA industry with the expectations of being underpaid mooks with no job security and shitty conditions, are now deciding that no, that is not the way to get a good job in the industry and will now go on to have better careers?

    How many game companies will find their pool of mooks diminished to the point that they actually have to start treating people at least a little better to be able to get decent quality people hired?

    How many blood vessels will Tube burst trying to tell people not to break the generalities of the tales?

    If the answer to any of these questions is greater than 0, then I think it's a worthwhile thing to have done.

    e- also, I don't think we need to worry about people reading a webcomic and getting a diminished view of QA due to the actions of the characters. That'd be like saying Neuclear Regulators watched the Simpsons and got a negative view of Nuclear Power Plant safety. :P

    El Skid on
    mrpaku wrote: »
    my name is precisionk and i'm ten tanks

    wrath God fear traitor evil
  • Viktor WaltersViktor Walters fair enough Registered User regular
    For those claiming that the story arcs are meaningful as in bad or meaningless as in the comic is just "for the funnies": The Trenches is not like Dilbert. It is not simply a string of funny jokes loosely based on arcs. There is a moral, and it's not just blatant apathy.

    It is also not a story of heroes and villains in the traditional sense. You would not follow it as strictly as a fantasy novel or even track continuity like you would with Girl Genius. It is more like a weird cross between Dilbert and a superhero story, the Golden Age kind, where Super-Man has foes and plots in each issue but each new day is a new problem. Sure, it's funny but think of the humor as a medium to convey a simple message. Shit be fucked up and shit.

    Well, that's just my opinion anyway. Maybe I'm biased, 'cause I like it. The "Tales" bits are almost like the backmatter in comics where the writers answer questions or where they post viewer comments- it has that right mix that comes when you use a new format to convey old concepts (and vice versa).

    Pokemon, to ignore the horrible terrible world. Friend Code: 3609-1288-7086
  • NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    For those claiming that the story arcs are meaningful as in bad or meaningless as in the comic is just "for the funnies": The Trenches is not like Dilbert. It is not simply a string of funny jokes loosely based on arcs. There is a moral, and it's not just blatant apathy.
    I disagree. I treat it (almost) like Dilbert and I love it on that level. Maybe it can also be enjoyed on a story level, but my point is, if you don't like the story aspects, it's still hilarious.

  • Viktor WaltersViktor Walters fair enough Registered User regular
    Hey, that's fair enough. There's nothing wrong with Dilbert, and nothing wrong in enjoying stuff in different ways. I was mostly just saying that to get across that it's not just meaningless and therefore worthless and no one should like it, blah blah blah.

    Also, the noses are fine. Stylistic.

    Pokemon, to ignore the horrible terrible world. Friend Code: 3609-1288-7086
  • GamescookGamescook Registered User
    edited October 2012
    I hope the story wasn't referring to the X-COM FPS/TPS game, because the developers sure were emphasizing the story and great characters of it in early interviews. I'd hate to see those elements get gutted in the final release. :(

    Gamescook on
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