I'll make a cleric unless someone else already has one.
Otherwise, in keeping with the theme of D&DNext, I am going old school with this and making Archibald II (as was the common practice back when losing characters to the first encounter was a common occurance)
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Oh man I SO want to see a party of all magic users. However it turns out, it will be great.
Nealneal is going with Kelmon Bloodmoon, High Elf Protector Fighter Soldier Endurance Specialist
RiemannLives is going with Archibald II, Human Battle Mage Wizard Charlatan Ambush Specialist
GrimmyTOA has been assigned Clarice, Human Lightbringer Cleric Priest Healing Specialist
I'm down to try something. Specifically I'm keen to try a Monk, which will be awful. But this is a playtest, so we supposedly should keep an open mind regarding how awful he's going to be. For starting Gold, the character creation rules say you get 150, but the background PDF says that if you design your own background you get 175. Which is it?
Name: The Great Ibilild
Race: Human
Class: Monk
Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Points: 10
Hit Dice: 1d8
AC: 17
Melee: +7 to-hit, 1d6+4 Bludgeoning damage (Burly Fists)
Melee: +7 to-hit, 1d4+4 Piercing damage (Puny Dagger)
Ranged: +7 to-hit, 1d4+4 Piercing damage (Pointy Darts)
Expertise- 1d4
Ki - 1 Use, DC: 14 - Stunning Strike
Maneuvers- Flurry of Blows, Step of the Wind
Mindful Defense (AC = 10 + Dex + Wis when unarmoured)
Monastic Training (Spot, Listen)
Way of the Fist
Endurance Specialist:
Durable
Background - Strongman (Travels towns performing daring feats of strength, or pretending to)
Noted Performer - Free room and board as long as he puts on a show. Skills (Bluff, Heal, Perform, Survival)
Skills:
Listen
Spot
Heal
Bluff
Perform
Survival
Equipment:
Darts * 20
Dagger
10ft. Pole
Winter Blanket
Bedroll
Traveller's Clothes
Adventurer's Kit
Waterflask (Ale)
Belt Pouch * 2 (reskin as pair of bandoleers for Darts)
Iron Pot
Piton * 2
Basic Hammer
Spade
Oil Flask * 10
Artisan's Tools (For making new darts)
Potion of Healing * 2
Gold: 24.8
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
That adventure is so incredibly badly designed that unless you decide to entirely ignore it or your players are intimately familiar with it, that some of these combats are almost entirely unwinnable.
So if they had obvious intent for those to be 3-4 separate encounters, but other mistakes prevented that from happening...
Is the right thing to do to follow the errors and combine the encounters anyway, or hand-wave the other monsters away to keep the discrete encounter intent going?
Mind you, that would have been terribad and hilariboring even as three encounters, but I think it would have given a better idea about how 5E would "work" in actual practice.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I think they just replaced all the AD&D monster stats with D&DNext stats and washed their hands of it. I don't think there was that much if any forethought.
So if they had obvious intent for those to be 3-4 separate encounters, but other mistakes prevented that from happening...
Is the right thing to do to follow the errors and combine the encounters anyway, or hand-wave the other monsters away to keep the discrete encounter intent going?
Mind you, that would have been terribad and hilariboring even as three encounters, but I think it would have given a better idea about how 5E would "work" in actual practice.
That is how 5E "works" in actual practice. The adventure is terrible as written, but that doesn't change how the 5E rules system handled it.
I think I made a post to this point earlier in the thread, but I'm really testing two things here:
1) 5E in general. How does it actually play? Are the rules fun?
2) 5E in the hands of a new/mediocre/bad DM. If this was being packaged and sold to someone and they said "Yeah, I guess I can DM. How hard can it be?" and they ran this, would it be fun?
After this next attempt at the meat grinder adventure I'm going to switch to "good DM" mode, which will most likely involve reworking the Caves of Chaos from the ground up. If the game suddenly gets much better, then I think we have a pretty good idea of who you need to be paying for a fun tabletop RPG experience.
Crap. I never got a definite response on whether I needed to be in or not. I can post a character this evening. As long as no die rolls are needed, assume I'm playing a human wizard: Bruce II: electric boogaloo.
If my role play is hindered by rolling to play, then I'd prefer the rolls play right, instead of steam-rolling play-night.
Crap. I never got a definite response on whether I needed to be in or not. I can post a character this evening. As long as no die rolls are needed, assume I'm playing a human wizard: Bruce II: electric boogaloo.
Sorry, my fault. I probably won't be posting in the game thread until later anyway, but if something comes up before Bruce II is ready we'll just assume you have a +3 Int modifier and a bunch of Knowledge skills.
oxybeEntei is appaled and disappointed in youRegistered Userregular
edited December 2012
IT IS TIME TO ROCK THE HIZZOUSE
Xi Rhox the Fisticator will lend you his most questionable skill!
Human Monk, Background : Thug
Lawful Neutral
Stats (pointbuy)
Str 16 +3 (15 base + 1 human)
Dex 16 +3(15 base + 1 human)
Con 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
Int 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
Wis 18 +4(15 base + 2 human + 1 monk)
Cha 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
Leper has chosen oxybe as his replacement, and I'm fine with that. The final party (this time) is:
Kelmon Bloodmoon, High Elf Protector Fighter Soldier Endurance Specialist (Nealneal)
Archibald II, Human Battle Mage Wizard Charlatan Ambush Specialist (RiemannLives)
Clarice, Human Lightbringer Cleric Priest Healing Specialist (GrimmyTOA)
Herman Ireling, Human Custom Rogue Guide Stealth Specialist (Der Waffle Mous)
Xi Rhox, Human Monk of the Way of the Fist Thug Ambush Specialist (oxybe)
Expect a post in the game thread in a little while.
Everything I can see suggests the game will still completely suck even if you give it a good adventure, as long as the temptation to use house rules is avoided anyway. Can't wait to see what happens when you run that kind of game.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
So if they had obvious intent for those to be 3-4 separate encounters, but other mistakes prevented that from happening...
Is the right thing to do to follow the errors and combine the encounters anyway, or hand-wave the other monsters away to keep the discrete encounter intent going?
Mind you, that would have been terribad and hilariboring even as three encounters, but I think it would have given a better idea about how 5E would "work" in actual practice.
It's a combination of incredibly bad rules design and the way this module is thrown together with no real thought or logic to it. It does allow for exactly the scenario that can happen to happen and pretty easily. There isn't even really much of a discussion that it will be utterly murderous for the PCs either. We can all tell that from looking at it, but as this is a playtest I think there is a fantastic argument for using the rules as written to see if they actually work.
I had a similar thing occur in the first playtest packet, the difference being that kobolds are utterly useless in a tight corridor vs. a wizard with burning hands.
Without the wizard that would have been very different...
I am reminded of a Knights of the Dinner Table comic where the guys were playing an Old West rpg. They were hell bent on robbing the bank in a mining town but kept getting shot dead in the process. Eventually they figured that the enitre population of the town was only a few hundred and they could keep rolling up new characters forever. Hence the "Desert Gorge Massacre"
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oxybeEntei is appaled and disappointed in youRegistered Userregular
for those wondering, just think of my character as sounding like Hak Foo by way of Brian Blessed.
you can read my collected ravings at oxybesothertumbr.tumblr.com
In case anybody's curious, according to the xp values for kobolds and the DM guidelines, the kobold fight that's going on now is just on the easy side of Average Difficulty. For a truly Hard Difficulty encounter, for a first-level party of this size, the number of kobolds should be doubled.
In case you were wondering, like me, whether the problem is with the Caves of Chaos just being broken by itself, or if the problem is with encounter design in 5e. It appears to be the latter.
It looks like either the Wizard significantly thins their numbers or party 3 better start getting ready.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
Yay! I got to kill two kobolds and feel useful as a fighter! Of course I had to steal a wizard spell to do it, but details.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I actually ran this same encounter with my party of 4 characters when the playtest began. This encounter was over very trivially on the first turn, as the players caught the kobolds clumped up in two groups due to a good spot roll. The wizard went first, killed 4 with burning hands pretty much automatically and then the rest of the party killed 2 more. The kobolds missed both attacks and were instantly dead immediately after.
So not only was it just a bad encounter, it was decided entirely by an initiative roll before it even began.
I think every monster that we've encountered so far besides the ogre has had ranged weapons. So it's not even possible to use tactics or positioning. Mobs can just stand wherever and focus fire on anyone they feel like.
Denada has actually been going pretty easy on us. Those javelin goblins or these slinger kobolbs could have straight up taken out any single party member if they had all targeted the same one.
Posts
Otherwise, in keeping with the theme of D&DNext, I am going old school with this and making Archibald II (as was the common practice back when losing characters to the first encounter was a common occurance)
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Race: High Elf
Class: Fighter
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Hit Points: 12
AC: 17
Melee: +6 to-hit, 1d10+3 damage (Longsword)
Ranged: +6 to-hit, 1d4+3 damage (Hand Axe)
Abilities:
Dexterity- 10
Constitution- 14
Intelligence- 14
Wisdom- 12
Charisma- 8
Racial Features:
Low-Light Vision
Elf Weapon Training
Keen Senses
Free Spirit
Trance
Cantrip (Burning Hands: DC-12)
Class Features:
Fighting Style- Protector
Maneuvers- Protect, Deadly Strike
Endurance Specialist:
Soldier:
Skills:
Spot
Heal
Intimidate
Knowledge (Warfare)
Survival
Equipment:
Shield,
Longsword,
Hand Crossbow,
20 Crossbow bolts,
Adeventurer's Kit
Lucky Charm (Cat's Eye marble)
Souvenir-Orcish Hand Axe
Rank Insignia
Traveler's Clothes
Bone Dice
Potion of Healing
19 gold
Experience:
Nealneal is going with Kelmon Bloodmoon, High Elf Protector Fighter Soldier Endurance Specialist
RiemannLives is going with Archibald II, Human Battle Mage Wizard Charlatan Ambush Specialist
GrimmyTOA has been assigned Clarice, Human Lightbringer Cleric Priest Healing Specialist
@Der Waffle Mous and @texasheat: are you guys still in?
EDIT: Man, cure minor wounds does nothing.
I'm down to try something. Specifically I'm keen to try a Monk, which will be awful. But this is a playtest, so we supposedly should keep an open mind regarding how awful he's going to be. For starting Gold, the character creation rules say you get 150, but the background PDF says that if you design your own background you get 175. Which is it?
Name: The Great Ibilild
Race: Human
Class: Monk
Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Points: 10
Hit Dice: 1d8
AC: 17
Melee: +7 to-hit, 1d6+4 Bludgeoning damage (Burly Fists)
Melee: +7 to-hit, 1d4+4 Piercing damage (Puny Dagger)
Ranged: +7 to-hit, 1d4+4 Piercing damage (Pointy Darts)
Abilities:
Dexterity- 18 (+4)
Constitution- 14 (+2)
Intelligence- 9 (-1)
Wisdom- 16 (+3)
Charisma- 10 (+0)
Racial Features:
Class Features:
Ki - 1 Use, DC: 14 - Stunning Strike
Maneuvers- Flurry of Blows, Step of the Wind
Mindful Defense (AC = 10 + Dex + Wis when unarmoured)
Monastic Training (Spot, Listen)
Way of the Fist
Endurance Specialist:
Background - Strongman (Travels towns performing daring feats of strength, or pretending to)
Skills:
Spot
Heal
Bluff
Perform
Survival
Equipment:
Dagger
10ft. Pole
Winter Blanket
Bedroll
Traveller's Clothes
Adventurer's Kit
Waterflask (Ale)
Belt Pouch * 2 (reskin as pair of bandoleers for Darts)
Iron Pot
Piton * 2
Basic Hammer
Spade
Oil Flask * 10
Artisan's Tools (For making new darts)
Potion of Healing * 2
Gold: 24.8
AC:15
Att:+2
HP:8
speed 30ft
Init: 4
Attacks:
Katana +5 1d8+3
Shortbow +5 1d6(+3?)
Trained Skills
-Survival
-Swim
-Track
-Sneak
-Spot
-Disable Device
-Search
-Tumble
Racial Features
common
Class Features
Light armor, simple, finesse, simple & military missile
Expertise D4
Skill Mastery Maneuver
Parry Maneuver
Thieves' Tools
CUSTOM SCHEME: henchman
Background
Trait: Wanderer
Specialization
Hide in Shadows: hide in dim light
Equipment
Katana
Shortbow+20 arrows
Thieves Tools
Adventurer's Kit
Caltrops
Climber's Kit
19gp
Is the right thing to do to follow the errors and combine the encounters anyway, or hand-wave the other monsters away to keep the discrete encounter intent going?
Mind you, that would have been terribad and hilariboring even as three encounters, but I think it would have given a better idea about how 5E would "work" in actual practice.
That is how 5E "works" in actual practice. The adventure is terrible as written, but that doesn't change how the 5E rules system handled it.
I think I made a post to this point earlier in the thread, but I'm really testing two things here:
1) 5E in general. How does it actually play? Are the rules fun?
2) 5E in the hands of a new/mediocre/bad DM. If this was being packaged and sold to someone and they said "Yeah, I guess I can DM. How hard can it be?" and they ran this, would it be fun?
After this next attempt at the meat grinder adventure I'm going to switch to "good DM" mode, which will most likely involve reworking the Caves of Chaos from the ground up. If the game suddenly gets much better, then I think we have a pretty good idea of who you need to be paying for a fun tabletop RPG experience.
Kelmon Bloodmoon, High Elf Protector Fighter Soldier Endurance Specialist (Nealneal)
Archibald II, Human Battle Mage Wizard Charlatan Ambush Specialist (RiemannLives)
Clarice, Human Lightbringer Cleric Priest Healing Specialist (GrimmyTOA)
Herman Ireling, Human Custom Rogue Guide Stealth Specialist (Der Waffle Mous)
Someone Someone, Something Something Something Something (@Leper)
I'd like to head back out to the caves today if possible.
HA-HA!
Sorry, my fault. I probably won't be posting in the game thread until later anyway, but if something comes up before Bruce II is ready we'll just assume you have a +3 Int modifier and a bunch of Knowledge skills.
Xi Rhox the Fisticator will lend you his most questionable skill!
Human Monk, Background : Thug
Lawful Neutral
Stats (pointbuy)
Str 16 +3 (15 base + 1 human)
Dex 16 +3(15 base + 1 human)
Con 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
Int 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
Wis 18 +4(15 base + 2 human + 1 monk)
Cha 9 -1(8 base + 1 human)
AC: 17
Attk: +3
HP: 7
Save DC: +1
Speed: 30ft
Init: +7
Weapons
LONGSPEAR : +6 1d10+3, Piercing
MANLY HEADBUTT : +6 1d6+3, Bludgeoning
HANDAXE : +6 1d4+3, range 30/120, Slashing
LIGHT CROSSBOW : +6 1d8+3, range 80/320 Piercing
SLING : +6 1d4+3, range 30/120, Bludgeoning
RACIAL FEATURES
Read/Speak Common
CLASS FEATURES
Weapon Profs : Club, Dagger, Handaxe, Light Crossbow, Longspear, Quarterstaff, Sling, Spear
Expertise 1d4
Ki 1/day
Mindful Defense
Monastic Training
Way of the Fist
MANEUVERS AND WHATNOT
Flurry of Blows
Step of the Wind
BACKGROUND
skills : Gather Rumors, Intimidate, Spot, Use Rope
trait : Bad Reputation Badass
SPECIALTY
1-Improved Initiative
SKILLS
CLIMB
GATHER RUMORS
INTIMIDATE
SPOT
USE ROPE
CARRY: 160LB
LIFT/DRAG: 900LB
EQUIPMENT
Longspear (5gp) -5lb
Handaxe (5gp) -5lb
Crossbow, Light (25gp) -3lb
Bolts x10 (1gp) -3lb
Common Clothes : Pants & Belt (5sp) -3lb
Dagger/Really Good Knife (2gp) -1lb
Backpack (2gp) -2lb
Winter Blanket (5sp) -3lb
Scrollcase x2 (2gp) -2lb
Chain, 10ft, 2 sets of manacles & a lock (19gp) -10lb
Chalk, 10 pieces (1sp) --
Crowbar (2sp) - 5lb
Grappling hook +100ft silk rope (22gp) -14lb
10 iron spikes + hammer (2sp 2cp) -7lb
Mess kit (1sp) - 1lb
Small steel mirror (5gp) -.5lb
rations, week (7sp) - 7lb
Pitons x10 (5sp) -5lb
Spade (5sp) -8lb
Sack x10 (1sp) -5lb
Tent (2gp) -20lb
Tinderbox (5sp) - 1lb
Torch x5 (5cp) -5lb
Waterskin x2, both full (4sp) -8lb
Whetstone (1cp) -1lb
vial x10 (10gp) -1lb
Bedroll (1gp) - 5lb
Flask x10 (2sp) - -
climber's kit (25gp) - 5lb
Tallow Candle x10 (2sp) -1lb
Hourglass (5gp) -1lb
bell (1gp) - -
Sledge (5sp) -10lb
miner's Pick (5sp) -10lb
sling (1sp) -.5lb
sling bullets (2cp) -1lb
137gp 4sp 9cp spent in total
1pp 1gp 2ep 5sp 1cp left over
160lb carried gear
Character Portait
Kelmon Bloodmoon, High Elf Protector Fighter Soldier Endurance Specialist (Nealneal)
Archibald II, Human Battle Mage Wizard Charlatan Ambush Specialist (RiemannLives)
Clarice, Human Lightbringer Cleric Priest Healing Specialist (GrimmyTOA)
Herman Ireling, Human Custom Rogue Guide Stealth Specialist (Der Waffle Mous)
Xi Rhox, Human Monk of the Way of the Fist Thug Ambush Specialist (oxybe)
Expect a post in the game thread in a little while.
I had a similar thing occur in the first playtest packet, the difference being that kobolds are utterly useless in a tight corridor vs. a wizard with burning hands.
Without the wizard that would have been very different...
In case you were wondering, like me, whether the problem is with the Caves of Chaos just being broken by itself, or if the problem is with encounter design in 5e. It appears to be the latter.
So not only was it just a bad encounter, it was decided entirely by an initiative roll before it even began.
Denada has actually been going pretty easy on us. Those javelin goblins or these slinger kobolbs could have straight up taken out any single party member if they had all targeted the same one.
It's hard to sound threatening when you don't know what's going to happen.
Or overwhelming force. Who's up for just torching the entire complex and stabbing whatever crawls out of the embers?