pfft you guys, women have you all fooled
you think they're all shallow wanting some sparkly things on their fingers
no, one by one they are trying to hoard diamonds like pokemon to create their own
why would they care about slavery and atrocities when they're trying to build an orbiting platform of mass destruction
To the OP: Do you consider this different from any other kind of "morally wrong consumerism" as was brought up in the Chik-fil-a threads? It seems rather the same to me.
It's pretty much identical in reasoning, merely different in scale.
So the question is why are you buying diamonds? Is it because they are beautiful and because they'll last forever, like your undying love? Or is it as a status symbol, because they are expensive?
If the latter, why not just leave the price tag on your "real" diamond (which is to say natural, because both are real)? Or slap the receipt down on the counter if you need to impress people?
Because "synthetic diamonds" are not available commercially in a grade suitable for jewelry.
I'd have been happy to buy one, but they don't exist
I can buy that. But I guess I'm addressing the more general argument, where a synthetic diamond of the desired size is available, but trying to "pass it off" as a "real" one is somehow...lying.
So what is the point of your diamond? Aesthetic? Or status?
Because if the latter, this seems like...I don't know, bragging about paying full sticker for your car or something stupid like that. Especially since the scarcity of the "real" ones is artificial.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Let's be honest, buying a diamond is only a small leap away from buying an ipad made in a Foxconn facility and a pair of headphones made in a Chinese labor camp in terms of how morally reprehensible it is.
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
Darkewolfe on
What is this I don't even.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Let's be honest, buying a diamond is only a small leap away from buying an ipad made in a Foxconn facility and a pair of headphones made in a Chinese labor camp in terms of how morally reprehensible it is.
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
Well plus the iPad is useful for more than just looking pretty (hurr-Apple jokes notwithstanding).
Let's be honest, buying a diamond is only a small leap away from buying an ipad made in a Foxconn facility and a pair of headphones made in a Chinese labor camp in terms of how morally reprehensible it is.
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
Let's be honest, buying a diamond is only a small leap away from buying an ipad made in a Foxconn facility and a pair of headphones made in a Chinese labor camp in terms of how morally reprehensible it is.
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
when DeBeers actually starts to recognize that there may be a human rights issue in their supply chain and starts taking steps to rectify the situation, then maybe you can start making statements like this
dlinfiniti on
AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
+1
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
So the question is why are you buying diamonds? Is it because they are beautiful and because they'll last forever, like your undying love? Or is it as a status symbol, because they are expensive?
If the latter, why not just leave the price tag on your "real" diamond (which is to say natural, because both are real)? Or slap the receipt down on the counter if you need to impress people?
Because "synthetic diamonds" are not available commercially in a grade suitable for jewelry.
I'd have been happy to buy one, but they don't exist
I can buy that. But I guess I'm addressing the more general argument, where a synthetic diamond of the desired size is available, but trying to "pass it off" as a "real" one is somehow...lying.
So what is the point of your diamond? Aesthetic? Or status?
Because if the latter, this seems like...I don't know, bragging about paying full sticker for your car or something stupid like that. Especially since the scarcity of the "real" ones is artificial.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
Well I'm pretty sure apple could rectify the issue by building their products in a country with adequate labor laws but that doesn't seem to be a goal.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
So the question is why are you buying diamonds? Is it because they are beautiful and because they'll last forever, like your undying love? Or is it as a status symbol, because they are expensive?
If the latter, why not just leave the price tag on your "real" diamond (which is to say natural, because both are real)? Or slap the receipt down on the counter if you need to impress people?
Because "synthetic diamonds" are not available commercially in a grade suitable for jewelry.
I'd have been happy to buy one, but they don't exist
I can buy that. But I guess I'm addressing the more general argument, where a synthetic diamond of the desired size is available, but trying to "pass it off" as a "real" one is somehow...lying.
So what is the point of your diamond? Aesthetic? Or status?
Because if the latter, this seems like...I don't know, bragging about paying full sticker for your car or something stupid like that. Especially since the scarcity of the "real" ones is artificial.
If I had a synthetic diamond and someone asked me if it was real, I'd say yes. Because it is. By "real" here, I mean it's made out of carbon and has the correct crystal molecular structure. I have no idea where people get the idea that a lab created diamond is somehow inferior to a mined diamond.
The technology for growing real lab diamonds just isn't that good yet (although it's come a looooooooooong way in the last decade) and I think that the higher price of lab created diamonds as compared to mined diamonds is actually because of supply and demand. Mined diamonds are artificially scarce. Good lab created diamonds actually are scarce, at least for now.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
The distinction makes sense if what they value is scarcity. Which, as has been pointed out, is fake (ironically). Which is why the rationale that leaps most easily to mind for preferring a natural diamond over an equivalent synthetic diamond is the status that comes along with dumping a lot of money on the artificially scarce (and therefore expensive) "real" diamond.
Interestingly, if synthetics become widespread, the only way to ensure that the "real" diamond status symbol gives you the desired status would be to tell everyone that it's a "real" diamond, not one of those fake diamonds.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
Synthetic, or simulant?
Synthetic = actual carbon, 10 on Mohs scale, the real thing
Simulant = something that looks like a diamond, like cubic zirconia, (arguably) white sapphire, etc.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
Sounds like he dodged a bullet.
Oh yeah. She was a crazy bitch that tried to end any disagreement with "I didn't get my Ph D so a technician could talk back to me." Guess what wacko, you'r degree doesn't make you immune to being wrong. She and I got along pretty well, but she was definitely you're stereotypical "Crazy Girlfriend" from all I gathered.
Let's be honest, buying a diamond is only a small leap away from buying an ipad made in a Foxconn facility and a pair of headphones made in a Chinese labor camp in terms of how morally reprehensible it is.
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
when DeBeers actually starts to recognize that there may be a human rights issue in their supply chain and starts taking steps to rectify the situation, then maybe you can start making statements like this
Fuck that. They need to punished severely by authorities for being evil bastards.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
I worked with a woman who was adamant that she wouldn't accept an engagement ring that didn't cost well into the five figures region. For reference, the job we worked at paid <$60k a year.
Some people value things that I doubt I could ever understand.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
The distinction makes sense if what they value is scarcity. Which, as has been pointed out, is fake (ironically). Which is why the rationale that leaps most easily to mind for preferring a natural diamond over an equivalent synthetic diamond is the status that comes along with dumping a lot of money on the artificially scarce (and therefore expensive) "real" diamond.
Interestingly, if synthetics become widespread, the only way to ensure that the "real" diamond status symbol gives you the desired status would be to tell everyone that it's a "real" diamond, not one of those fake diamonds.
There are plenty of ways for jewelery to mark itself out as expensive without actually increasing the scarcity of the materials. Look at Tiffany's, David Yurman, VanCleef, etc.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
Theoretically, your fiance would have similar world views as you do or would at least be happy with the way you would present your views. In other words, any fiance who would get angry about not getting a "real" diamond when you are against them is not some one you should even consider marrying.
But this is off topic and is falling into the "SKFM doesn't understand society" trap that happens to most threads you get involved in.
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
Synthetic, or simulant?
Synthetic = actual carbon, 10 on Mohs scale, the real thing
Simulant = something that looks like a diamond, like cubic zirconia, (arguably) white sapphire, etc.
Either way, WTF.
Synthetic. Spent an assload of cash on the ring. And she flipped over it.
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
It's not that unreasonable, especially if she lives seperate from you. It needs to be seperately insured under the home owners policy, and that requires a receipt (she won't have that, obviously) or an appraisal.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
Theoretically, your fiance would have similar world views as you do or would at least be happy with the way you would present your views. In other words, any fiance who would get angry about not getting a "real" diamond when you are against them is not some one you should even consider marrying.
But this is off topic and is falling into the "SKFM doesn't understand society" trap that happens to most threads you get involved in.
This is really being over thought here. All I was asking was a simple question about whether people feel so strongly in this issue that they would not buy their fiancé the ring they want.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
Synthetic, or simulant?
Synthetic = actual carbon, 10 on Mohs scale, the real thing
Simulant = something that looks like a diamond, like cubic zirconia, (arguably) white sapphire, etc.
Either way, WTF.
Synthetic. Spent an assload of cash on the ring. And she flipped over it.
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
The distinction makes sense if what they value is scarcity. Which, as has been pointed out, is fake (ironically). Which is why the rationale that leaps most easily to mind for preferring a natural diamond over an equivalent synthetic diamond is the status that comes along with dumping a lot of money on the artificially scarce (and therefore expensive) "real" diamond.
Interestingly, if synthetics become widespread, the only way to ensure that the "real" diamond status symbol gives you the desired status would be to tell everyone that it's a "real" diamond, not one of those fake diamonds.
There are plenty of ways for jewelery to mark itself out as expensive without actually increasing the scarcity of the materials. Look at Tiffany's, David Yurman, VanCleef, etc.
Or Mikimoto: Freshwater pearls have the distinction of being 100% nacre and as such much more durable long-term than Akoyas (which tend to top out at 0.7-1mm of nacre on their largest pearls, only freshwater pearls can be made without a bead), while their luster is slightly different you actually can treat freshwater pearls to have the exact same luster as an Akoya and yet there is a price disparity in the order of a factor of eight for comparable non-branded Akoyas. This is before we consider the Mikimoto brand itself, which can earn even more markup...
It's all marketing, that's the dirty secret. No matter how shiny a bauble you have it's still just a bauble.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Not sure if this is accurate, but it is interesting, and suggests more differences than people is this thread are positing.
Synthetic diamonds are different from natural ones in various ways and these properties can help in segregating them. Since the synthetic diamonds are produced in a laboratory, they do not have the same level of inclusions and properties as the natural ones. They do not have minerals like garnet, diopside and other diamonds in them. However, synthetic diamonds do contain remnants of the metallic flux that is used in the process of creation of synthetic diamonds.
The other differentiation lies in the structure, graining and color zoning of the diamonds. The high temperature at which a synthetic diamond is produced is yet lower than the temperature at which natural diamonds are created. Natural diamonds grow evenly in all directions from a basic core.
The process that produces synthetic diamonds creates different shapes that look like octahedral and cubic faces since the diamond grows only upwards and outwards from a core. The typical shape of a synthetic diamond is like a broad diamond tapering pyramid that ends in a flat face. This difference in growth patterns and shapes forms the most reliable source of differentiating between synthetic diamonds and natural ones.
There are various ways in which one can tell synthetic diamonds from real ones.
-A fiber optic light can be used to determine whether the inclusions observed with the naked eye are reflective or metallic in nature. A simple confirmation of the remnants of metallic flux in the diamonds is proof enough that the diamonds in question are synthetic.
-In case where some synthetic diamonds do not have any inclusions, whatsoever, the differentiating process needs to be different. The shape of the crystals in a real diamond is different from that of a synthetic one. It should be noted that expert cutters can remove the top cover of the crystal during the cutting process while aspects like graining and color zoning cannot be changed.
-The graining pattern of synthetic diamonds and natural ones is also different due to the difference in growth patterns. When viewed through the pavilion of the synthetic diamond, the hour glass graining can be seen under magnification.
-The color zoning in synthetic diamonds also follows the hour glass shape; something that is obviously and most definitely absent in natural ones.
-If there are no differences that can be observed in crystals structures, graining and color zoning, the test to adopt is the UV radiation test . Most natural diamonds fluorescence a blue tint under UV long wave and a yellowish fluorescence under shortwave UV. Synthetic diamonds, on the other hand fluoresce between yellow to greenish yellow under long and shortwave.
-Most synthetic diamonds are phosphorescent and that means that after the UV light is switched off, the light emitted from the diamond remains for some time. And since the natural diamond is not phosphorescent, this quality can be used to pick synthetic diamonds from a parcel of diamonds.
-Another innovative method of differentiating the synthetic from the original is to use magnets. This method can be used since there are likely to be metallic inclusions in the synthetic diamond but not in a natural one. If a diamond is kept free and a strong magnet moved closer, the synthetic diamond will tend to incline more towards the magnets. This is another infallible method of differentiating synthetics from real diamonds because natural diamonds have never known to have metallic inclusions so far.
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
It's not that unreasonable, especially if she lives seperate from you. It needs to be seperately insured under the home owners policy, and that requires a receipt (she won't have that, obviously) or an appraisal.
No, usually when you buy one they give you a ream of documentation for your insurance company or your fiancee's company. We're both USAA and they needed way more than just a dollar value.
Which incidentally is why I am automatically disinclined to believe anyone ever actually lies. It inevitably leads one to attempt to defraud one's homeowner insurance provider. It's such an obviously bad idea that it has to be extremely rare. Like felating a grizzly bear rare.
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
Theoretically, your fiance would have similar world views as you do or would at least be happy with the way you would present your views. In other words, any fiance who would get angry about not getting a "real" diamond when you are against them is not some one you should even consider marrying.
But this is off topic and is falling into the "SKFM doesn't understand society" trap that happens to most threads you get involved in.
This is really being over thought here. All I was asking was a simple question about whether people feel so strongly in this issue that they would not buy their fiancé the ring they want.
If the fiancé is so determined to have a diamond, and it must come from the ground, then the most obvious solution (to me) would be to get a Canadian diamond. The Canadians have some very good documentation on their diamond production, though I admittedly do not know if there is a price difference between Canadian and other sources of diamonds.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
It's not that unreasonable, especially if she lives seperate from you. It needs to be seperately insured under the home owners policy, and that requires a receipt (she won't have that, obviously) or an appraisal.
No, usually when you buy one they give you a ream of documentation for your insurance company or your fiancee's company. We're both USAA and they needed way more than just a dollar value.
Which incidentally is why I am automatically disinclined to believe anyone ever actually lies. It inevitably leads one to attempt to defraud one's homeowner insurance provider. It's such an obviously bad idea that it has to be extremely rare. Like felating a grizzly bear rare.
Aside from the novelty of lying about the diamond, one would think that The Importance of Being Ethical would have been brought up at some point pre-engagement.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
Well, what if he lied to her and she found put when she took it for an appraisal or something? It's a big lie. If he told her and she broke it off with him, that is messed up.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
It's not that unreasonable, especially if she lives seperate from you. It needs to be seperately insured under the home owners policy, and that requires a receipt (she won't have that, obviously) or an appraisal.
No, usually when you buy one they give you a ream of documentation for your insurance company or your fiancee's company. We're both USAA and they needed way more than just a dollar value.
Which incidentally is why I am automatically disinclined to believe anyone ever actually lies. It inevitably leads one to attempt to defraud one's homeowner insurance provider. It's such an obviously bad idea that it has to be extremely rare. Like felating a grizzly bear rare.
Nope. There are a lot of dumb bullshitters out there.
I know the girl that got the fake ring, another that got fake earings, and even a dude who's own father gave him a fake Omega watch as a graduation present.
'Humorously', that last one was actually discovered when my bro went to get the watch insured.
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spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
The distinction makes sense if what they value is scarcity. Which, as has been pointed out, is fake (ironically). Which is why the rationale that leaps most easily to mind for preferring a natural diamond over an equivalent synthetic diamond is the status that comes along with dumping a lot of money on the artificially scarce (and therefore expensive) "real" diamond.
Interestingly, if synthetics become widespread, the only way to ensure that the "real" diamond status symbol gives you the desired status would be to tell everyone that it's a "real" diamond, not one of those fake diamonds.
There are plenty of ways for jewelery to mark itself out as expensive without actually increasing the scarcity of the materials. Look at Tiffany's, David Yurman, VanCleef, etc.
Or Mikimoto: Freshwater pearls have the distinction of being 100% nacre and as such much more durable long-term than Akoyas (which tend to top out at 0.7-1mm of nacre on their largest pearls, only freshwater pearls can be made without a bead), while their luster is slightly different you actually can treat freshwater pearls to have the exact same luster as an Akoya and yet there is a price disparity in the order of a factor of eight for comparable non-branded Akoyas. This is before we consider the Mikimoto brand itself, which can earn even more markup...
It's all marketing, that's the dirty secret. No matter how shiny a bauble you have it's still just a bauble.
I bought Mrs. SKFM a bunch of mikimoto pearls in an auction for around a third of retail and that was still expensive. They're really nice, but there is no chance that I could pick them out from other non-branded pearls other than by the clasp. . .
their fiancé (who does not care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle)
I do have to wonder at the long-term stability of a relationship where one party is so shallow that they'd choose their own personal prettiness over the lives of thousands of children.
Come on. Most people buy regular diamonds. There is nothing you can discern about a person's character from the non-choice of doing what everyone else does.
You didn't sound like you were talking about regular ignorant people just buying diamonds. You're talking about someone who knows damn well that the sparkliness they want on their finger very likely lead to a lot of suffering and pain, but doesn't care. That is shallow.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
Your initial statement wasn't "this person is only vaguely aware of the situation," it was that she "doesn't care about the cruelty and loves the sparkle." Which is apparently a misstatement that lead a lot of people to the mistaken impression that this person was horribly callous in a let them eat cake sort of way.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
Theoretically, your fiance would have similar world views as you do or would at least be happy with the way you would present your views. In other words, any fiance who would get angry about not getting a "real" diamond when you are against them is not some one you should even consider marrying.
But this is off topic and is falling into the "SKFM doesn't understand society" trap that happens to most threads you get involved in.
This is really being over thought here. All I was asking was a simple question about whether people feel so strongly in this issue that they would not buy their fiancé the ring they want.
If the fiancé is so determined to have a diamond, and it must come from the ground, then the most obvious solution (to me) would be to get a Canadian diamond. The Canadians have some very good documentation on their diamond production, though I admittedly do not know if there is a price difference between Canadian and other sources of diamonds.
There can be, but not always. There's plenty of vendors that specifically deal with no-chance-for-conflict diamonds too:
Posts
you think they're all shallow wanting some sparkly things on their fingers
no, one by one they are trying to hoard diamonds like pokemon to create their own
why would they care about slavery and atrocities when they're trying to build an orbiting platform of mass destruction
Not sure where you're going with this.
I can buy that. But I guess I'm addressing the more general argument, where a synthetic diamond of the desired size is available, but trying to "pass it off" as a "real" one is somehow...lying.
So what is the point of your diamond? Aesthetic? Or status?
Because if the latter, this seems like...I don't know, bragging about paying full sticker for your car or something stupid like that. Especially since the scarcity of the "real" ones is artificial.
Best. Cards Against Humanity. Tie-In. Ever.
There is a lot of room between gleefully whipping slaves as they carry your diamonds to you on trays made of their frozen tears and being a passionate crusader who only buys cruelty free everything. I would say that most people are either unaware of the situation or are only vaguely aware, and so casting aspersions on the character of people who don't share your pet cause seems a bit unfair. . .
They also both send money to support a morally reprehensible organization/country. The ipad is less overpriced than the diamond, I guess.
Well plus the iPad is useful for more than just looking pretty (hurr-Apple jokes notwithstanding).
No...no I think it's actually a pretty huge leap.
when DeBeers actually starts to recognize that there may be a human rights issue in their supply chain and starts taking steps to rectify the situation, then maybe you can start making statements like this
I think there was a misunderstanding on my part re: terminology. I thought that the synthetics people were referring to were CZ's and other substitutes. I don't think there is a real distinction between an actual synthetic diamond and an equivalent natural diamond. Apologies for any confusion.
Ah, understood.
Still blows my mind, because I know there are people who do make that distinction.
If I had a synthetic diamond and someone asked me if it was real, I'd say yes. Because it is. By "real" here, I mean it's made out of carbon and has the correct crystal molecular structure. I have no idea where people get the idea that a lab created diamond is somehow inferior to a mined diamond.
The technology for growing real lab diamonds just isn't that good yet (although it's come a looooooooooong way in the last decade) and I think that the higher price of lab created diamonds as compared to mined diamonds is actually because of supply and demand. Mined diamonds are artificially scarce. Good lab created diamonds actually are scarce, at least for now.
I worked with a pharmacist who broke off an engagement with her fiance because he bought her a synthetic diamond in the engagement ring.
I can see how people would read it that way. All I meant to ask was whether someone who cares about this issue but whose fiance does not view this as a priority for whatever reason (whether ignorance or something else) and really likes diamonds would put their own views ahead of what would make their fiance happy.
The distinction makes sense if what they value is scarcity. Which, as has been pointed out, is fake (ironically). Which is why the rationale that leaps most easily to mind for preferring a natural diamond over an equivalent synthetic diamond is the status that comes along with dumping a lot of money on the artificially scarce (and therefore expensive) "real" diamond.
Interestingly, if synthetics become widespread, the only way to ensure that the "real" diamond status symbol gives you the desired status would be to tell everyone that it's a "real" diamond, not one of those fake diamonds.
Sounds like he dodged a bullet.
That poor guy.
Wait. The opposite of that.
Synthetic, or simulant?
Synthetic = actual carbon, 10 on Mohs scale, the real thing
Simulant = something that looks like a diamond, like cubic zirconia, (arguably) white sapphire, etc.
Either way, WTF.
Oh yeah. She was a crazy bitch that tried to end any disagreement with "I didn't get my Ph D so a technician could talk back to me." Guess what wacko, you'r degree doesn't make you immune to being wrong. She and I got along pretty well, but she was definitely you're stereotypical "Crazy Girlfriend" from all I gathered.
Fuck that. They need to punished severely by authorities for being evil bastards.
Some people value things that I doubt I could ever understand.
There are plenty of ways for jewelery to mark itself out as expensive without actually increasing the scarcity of the materials. Look at Tiffany's, David Yurman, VanCleef, etc.
Theoretically, your fiance would have similar world views as you do or would at least be happy with the way you would present your views. In other words, any fiance who would get angry about not getting a "real" diamond when you are against them is not some one you should even consider marrying.
But this is off topic and is falling into the "SKFM doesn't understand society" trap that happens to most threads you get involved in.
If she took her ring in for an appraisal to verify, I don't think they were going to make it anyway.
Synthetic. Spent an assload of cash on the ring. And she flipped over it.
It's not that unreasonable, especially if she lives seperate from you. It needs to be seperately insured under the home owners policy, and that requires a receipt (she won't have that, obviously) or an appraisal.
This is really being over thought here. All I was asking was a simple question about whether people feel so strongly in this issue that they would not buy their fiancé the ring they want.
Or Mikimoto: Freshwater pearls have the distinction of being 100% nacre and as such much more durable long-term than Akoyas (which tend to top out at 0.7-1mm of nacre on their largest pearls, only freshwater pearls can be made without a bead), while their luster is slightly different you actually can treat freshwater pearls to have the exact same luster as an Akoya and yet there is a price disparity in the order of a factor of eight for comparable non-branded Akoyas. This is before we consider the Mikimoto brand itself, which can earn even more markup...
It's all marketing, that's the dirty secret. No matter how shiny a bauble you have it's still just a bauble.
No, usually when you buy one they give you a ream of documentation for your insurance company or your fiancee's company. We're both USAA and they needed way more than just a dollar value.
Which incidentally is why I am automatically disinclined to believe anyone ever actually lies. It inevitably leads one to attempt to defraud one's homeowner insurance provider. It's such an obviously bad idea that it has to be extremely rare. Like felating a grizzly bear rare.
If the fiancé is so determined to have a diamond, and it must come from the ground, then the most obvious solution (to me) would be to get a Canadian diamond. The Canadians have some very good documentation on their diamond production, though I admittedly do not know if there is a price difference between Canadian and other sources of diamonds.
Aside from the novelty of lying about the diamond, one would think that The Importance of Being Ethical would have been brought up at some point pre-engagement.
Nope. There are a lot of dumb bullshitters out there.
I know the girl that got the fake ring, another that got fake earings, and even a dude who's own father gave him a fake Omega watch as a graduation present.
'Humorously', that last one was actually discovered when my bro went to get the watch insured.
I bought Mrs. SKFM a bunch of mikimoto pearls in an auction for around a third of retail and that was still expensive. They're really nice, but there is no chance that I could pick them out from other non-branded pearls other than by the clasp. . .
There can be, but not always. There's plenty of vendors that specifically deal with no-chance-for-conflict diamonds too:
http://www.brilliantearth.com/