So I'm messing around with my Reaper Atlas. If I dropped the Artemis on my three srm 6s I could change a medium laser for a large.
Y/N?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
So I don't know if anyone else is as much of a nut for efficiency in weight and space as I am, but I made a spreadsheet that looks at Endo-Steel Structure vs. Ferro-Fibrous Armor and Double Heat Sinks vs. Single Heat Sinks.
Assumptions: For ES vs. FF, I make the assumption that you can't take both (which is obviously better than one or the other), because almost no build has enough critical slots free to take both at the same time.
Takeaway points: FF is never worth it over ES, ever. The amount of armor you need to make FF's freed up weight equivalent to ES's is impossible to achieve for each tonnage. I think they need to change FF so that it allows you to have more total armor rather than lighter armor, but, that's how it is now.
DHS vs. SHS is not as straight a comparison as it would seem. If you're not taking a lot of heat sinks, DHS are certainly a much better option. However, once you start to take a lot of them (say if you're running a beam build), you quickly run out of slots for DHSs, as DHSs are tonnage efficient but space inefficient.
So I'm messing around with my Reaper Atlas. If I dropped the Artemis on my three srm 6s I could change a medium laser for a large.
Y/N?
It's a nice idea, but you'll have track both lasers separately, since the LL has more range. If you use it as a big ML you'll be fine, but you'll probably find yourself shooting your ML at targets way too far away quite a few times, I'd imagine.
Sorry about that, was talking about SSRMs. Left off an "s" :P
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
The fact that ECMs have no counter other than killing their carrier is bullshit. "Oh, they have an Atlas that spent an extra two tons? HAha, guess you don't get to use your weapons that deal actual damage LRMpults!"
The fact that ECMs have no counter other than killing their carrier is bullshit. "Oh, they have an Atlas that spent an extra two tons? HAha, guess you don't get to use your weapons that deal actual damage LRMpults!"
no counter except for an ECM in counter mode, or TAG.
I never LRM without a fellow LRM or ECM mech. It's not worth depending on a random person to help shield you.
I once dropped in an LRM Stalker, and my buddy in an Ilya. The only ECM mech on the team sat in counter mode, about two grid blocks away from any sort of usefulness.
I learned my lesson that day. Can't depend on anyone but your drop buddies.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited January 2013
Okay this 80 kph 4xLLAS K2 build is the most fun I've had yet. PEW PEW PEW
edit: Also dicking around with a 6xSRM6 pult. It feels so wrong, but coring someone in 1 hit is pretty good I guess.
3cl1ps3 on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I never LRM without a fellow LRM or ECM mech. It's not worth depending on a random person to help shield you.
I once dropped in an LRM Stalker, and my buddy in an Ilya. The only ECM mech on the team sat in counter mode, about two grid blocks away from any sort of usefulness.
I learned my lesson that day. Can't depend on anyone but your drop buddies.
Yeah, a good LRM user on a real team is explosive murder, especially with a partner calling targets and providing TAG. Conversely, even the best LRM mech user ever is going to generally suck when dropped with a pub team; without a screen of aware teammates, most LRM mechs are just big, fat targets in pub matches.
Except for a Cent D going 100 kph with two LRM launchers. That's probably one of the only solid universal LRM mechs I've seen, simply because you can run away from the big stuff and will have absolutely zero trouble keeping up with teammates while keeping the enemy far enough away to hit. Not the best LRM mech overall, but it works pretty well if you just need to sling LRMs and don't want to be completely hosed by idiot teammates.
It does have a weak secondary armament, though, so you can't completely ignore your team.
So I don't know if anyone else is as much of a nut for efficiency in weight and space as I am, but I made a spreadsheet that looks at Endo-Steel Structure vs. Ferro-Fibrous Armor and Double Heat Sinks vs. Single Heat Sinks.
Assumptions: For ES vs. FF, I make the assumption that you can't take both (which is obviously better than one or the other), because almost no build has enough critical slots free to take both at the same time.
Takeaway points: FF is never worth it over ES, ever. The amount of armor you need to make FF's freed up weight equivalent to ES's is impossible to achieve for each tonnage. I think they need to change FF so that it allows you to have more total armor rather than lighter armor, but, that's how it is now.
DHS vs. SHS is not as straight a comparison as it would seem. If you're not taking a lot of heat sinks, DHS are certainly a much better option. However, once you start to take a lot of them (say if you're running a beam build), you quickly run out of slots for DHSs, as DHSs are tonnage efficient but space inefficient.
MATH!
That's a helpful conclusion - I always figured you might reach a point with some mechs where they have enough armor to make the FF savings worthwhile. Guess not.
Armor count scales linearly with tonnage, so there aren't any "bunker" mechs out there to make the most of FF over ES. Which is good, because pubbies would be extra incompetent with a mech like that.
I never LRM without a fellow LRM or ECM mech. It's not worth depending on a random person to help shield you.
I once dropped in an LRM Stalker, and my buddy in an Ilya. The only ECM mech on the team sat in counter mode, about two grid blocks away from any sort of usefulness.
I learned my lesson that day. Can't depend on anyone but your drop buddies.
Yeah, a good LRM user on a real team is explosive murder, especially with a partner calling targets and providing TAG. Conversely, even the best LRM mech user ever is going to generally suck when dropped with a pub team; without a screen of aware teammates, most LRM mechs are just big, fat targets in pub matches.
Except for a Cent D going 100 kph with two LRM launchers. That's probably one of the only solid universal LRM mechs I've seen, simply because you can run away from the big stuff and will have absolutely zero trouble keeping up with teammates while keeping the enemy far enough away to hit. Not the best LRM mech overall, but it works pretty well if you just need to sling LRMs and don't want to be completely hosed by idiot teammates.
It does have a weak secondary armament, though, so you can't completely ignore your team.
This is the main reason I'm thinking about picking up a Centi. The speed to get myself out of trouble would be nice. All to often I find myself getting isolated somehow and picked apart by lights.
I think a coordinated team could field a pretty effective super-mobile LRM squad. A Raven 3L with a pair of Cents/HBK-4SPs and TAG would be supremely annoying at medium ranges where the missile travel time is low enough to keep some real pressure on the enemy.
My 4SP has Artemis for the SRMs, so I've been curious to try out a build with LRMs instead. But as everyone's said here, it'd get stomped in pub matches without someone watching my back.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The current situation with LRMs is made complex by a number of reasons. One, people are taking assault mechs and turning them into LRM-only mechs because they think "hurr, hurr, I can kill everything easy". A good LRM user can be a real problem, but your Stalker with eighty million LRMs is completely useless against a) cover and b) that brawling Atlas the game matched your slot against that has ECM and uses cover. LRM Catapults also bring in Cataphracts, Dragons, SRM Cats, or (the still stupid) Gaussapults and AC/20 Cats, which all generally murder LRM Cats or the Cat's team. Lights with LRMs are just total ass. So right now, medium mechs are really the only "good" class to make an LRM mech in, because the craziest thing they can bring in is a Sprinturion (which can totally get pasted before doing anything crazy). Then you have a mech which, if destroyed, doesn't cripple the team, but neither is its counterpart completely insane.
Two, even with TAG equipped, ECM really knocks the wind out of LRMs and ECM is very common. Three, any mech that goes too heavy on LRMs is ass in close-range combat, which is where all the brawlers excel and consequently stomp LRM mechs. Four, without team support, virtually any LRM mech in a pub match is completely screwed against a team with even a couple moderately intelligent player or almost any premade group.
Which is why I liked the LRM Centurion D. If you wanted, you could put TAG in there (at the cost of half your energy armament), but you are in a fast mech with solid armor that can evade any brawler mech and reposition so that cover isn't an issue AND you don't bring in enemy mechs that are going to flat-out murder your teammates (unless they're stupid and don't watch their backs in case a Sprinturion is around). You don't have a massive amount of ammo, but you don't need that ammo because you aren't flinging missiles at enemies you can't see and hoping for the best. Plus, people inherently ignore you because you're at the smaller end of the mech spectrum, as opposed to LRM Stalkers or Catapults where their first missile salvo is a big "come kill me!" sign.
Not to mention that you also get to be super-aggressive while using LRMs, which is a pretty unique experience. People are plenty used to big LRM fire coming at them from the direction of enemy base, but never used to it coming from the completely bizarre angles a Cent D with LRMs can safely reach. Outside of premade team play, I would strongly recommend the Missileturion overy virtually anything else if people want to be able to use LRMs without screwing over their pub team or being extremely hobbled by people smartly using cover or huddling under ECM.
I love the DRG-1C. Had my best round in it, 4kills 4assists. The last two kills were kinda mop up kills, but I had to get them before the enemy gathered all the resources needed to win. The last one was an Atlas with an open/orange torso who was standing on the top base. He accidentally dropped down and I used my Dragon arms to point down and nail him in the torso with the LLAS, and then as he kept backing up to get a bead on me, I gave him a full salvo of 3 MLAS and the LLAS again to finish him off.
The current situation with LRMs is made complex by a number of reasons. One, people are taking assault mechs and turning them into LRM-only mechs because they think "hurr, hurr, I can kill everything easy". A good LRM user can be a real problem, but your Stalker with eighty million LRMs is completely useless against a) cover and b) that brawling Atlas the game matched your slot against that has ECM and uses cover. LRM Catapults also bring in Cataphracts, Dragons, SRM Cats, or (the still stupid) Gaussapults and AC/20 Cats, which all generally murder LRM Cats or the Cat's team. Lights with LRMs are just total ass. So right now, medium mechs are really the only "good" class to make an LRM mech in, because the craziest thing they can bring in is a Sprinturion (which can totally get pasted before doing anything crazy). Then you have a mech which, if destroyed, doesn't cripple the team, but neither is its counterpart completely insane.
Two, even with TAG equipped, ECM really knocks the wind out of LRMs and ECM is very common. Three, any mech that goes too heavy on LRMs is ass in close-range combat, which is where all the brawlers excel and consequently stomp LRM mechs. Four, without team support, virtually any LRM mech in a pub match is completely screwed against a team with even a couple moderately intelligent player or almost any premade group.
Which is why I liked the LRM Centurion D. If you wanted, you could put TAG in there (at the cost of half your energy armament), but you are in a fast mech with solid armor that can evade any brawler mech and reposition so that cover isn't an issue AND you don't bring in enemy mechs that are going to flat-out murder your teammates (unless they're stupid and don't watch their backs in case a Sprinturion is around). You don't have a massive amount of ammo, but you don't need that ammo because you aren't flinging missiles at enemies you can't see and hoping for the best. Plus, people inherently ignore you because you're at the smaller end of the mech spectrum, as opposed to LRM Stalkers or Catapults where their first missile salvo is a big "come kill me!" sign.
Not to mention that you also get to be super-aggressive while using LRMs, which is a pretty unique experience. People are plenty used to big LRM fire coming at them from the direction of enemy base, but never used to it coming from the completely bizarre angles a Cent D with LRMs can safely reach. Outside of premade team play, I would strongly recommend the Missileturion overy virtually anything else if people want to be able to use LRMs without screwing over their pub team or being extremely hobbled by people smartly using cover or huddling under ECM.
There are problems with the game in its current state.
1) ECM makes LRMs usless. It set off by a bug at this time somewhat, making it semi-playable.
2) TAG counters ECM. Currently it works THROUGH terrain.
3) Gauss Cannons will explode, with case they will "only" take out the entire side, but not if you fited an XL engine, in which case its... instant reactor death if one explodes.
So LRMs are practically off the table, Gauss are practically off the table.
Not a very nice situation.
Despite that i still find the game addicting. Its simply in a horrible shape ATM.
I have to side with this guy in his assesment. To be fair it has to be sait that the situation got a bit better since the videos were made.
That being said, "more or less" means for me playing an modified AWS-8Q, with 3 PPCs, upgraded to FF armor, added a heatsink, shaved off armor COMPLETELY of the non-weapon arm and a hint of a layer from the legs using the extra 3 tons for the addition of 2 extra medium lasers for enhance close range capability and anti-light armament. I have to say i had my doubts about the heatmanagement, but it works increadible. Thats quite a nice punch against semi-closing targets. They die now as soon as they get into laser range.
Still i don't consider ECM in its current form okay and i don't consider Gauss okay. Nobody uses Gauss anymore. Nearly nobody uses LRMs anymore. That can't be right.
The current situation with LRMs is made complex by a number of reasons. One, people are taking assault mechs and turning them into LRM-only mechs because they think "hurr, hurr, I can kill everything easy". A good LRM user can be a real problem, but your Stalker with eighty million LRMs is completely useless against a) cover and b) that brawling Atlas the game matched your slot against that has ECM and uses cover. LRM Catapults also bring in Cataphracts, Dragons, SRM Cats, or (the still stupid) Gaussapults and AC/20 Cats, which all generally murder LRM Cats or the Cat's team. Lights with LRMs are just total ass. So right now, medium mechs are really the only "good" class to make an LRM mech in, because the craziest thing they can bring in is a Sprinturion (which can totally get pasted before doing anything crazy). Then you have a mech which, if destroyed, doesn't cripple the team, but neither is its counterpart completely insane.
Two, even with TAG equipped, ECM really knocks the wind out of LRMs and ECM is very common. Three, any mech that goes too heavy on LRMs is ass in close-range combat, which is where all the brawlers excel and consequently stomp LRM mechs. Four, without team support, virtually any LRM mech in a pub match is completely screwed against a team with even a couple moderately intelligent player or almost any premade group.
Which is why I liked the LRM Centurion D. If you wanted, you could put TAG in there (at the cost of half your energy armament), but you are in a fast mech with solid armor that can evade any brawler mech and reposition so that cover isn't an issue AND you don't bring in enemy mechs that are going to flat-out murder your teammates (unless they're stupid and don't watch their backs in case a Sprinturion is around). You don't have a massive amount of ammo, but you don't need that ammo because you aren't flinging missiles at enemies you can't see and hoping for the best. Plus, people inherently ignore you because you're at the smaller end of the mech spectrum, as opposed to LRM Stalkers or Catapults where their first missile salvo is a big "come kill me!" sign.
Not to mention that you also get to be super-aggressive while using LRMs, which is a pretty unique experience. People are plenty used to big LRM fire coming at them from the direction of enemy base, but never used to it coming from the completely bizarre angles a Cent D with LRMs can safely reach. Outside of premade team play, I would strongly recommend the Missileturion overy virtually anything else if people want to be able to use LRMs without screwing over their pub team or being extremely hobbled by people smartly using cover or huddling under ECM.
There are problems with the game in its current state.
1) ECM makes LRMs usless. It set off by a bug at this time somewhat, making it semi-playable.
2) TAG counters ECM. Currently it works THROUGH terrain.
3) Gauss Cannons will explode, with case they will "only" take out the entire side, but not if you fited an XL engine, in which case its... instant reactor death if one explodes.
So LRMs are practically off the table, Gauss are practically off the table.
Not a very nice situation.
Despite that i still find the game addicting. Its simply in a horrible shape ATM.
I have to side with this guy in his assesment. To be fair it has to be sait that the situation got a bit better since the videos were made.
That being said, "more or less" means for me playing an modified AWS-8Q, with 3 PPCs, upgraded to FF armor, added a heatsink, shaved off armor COMPLETELY of the non-weapon arm and a hint of a layer from the legs using the extra 3 tons for the addition of 2 extra medium lasers for enhance close range capability and anti-light armament. I have to say i had my doubts about the heatmanagement, but it works increadible. Thats quite a nice punch against semi-closing targets. They die now as soon as they get into laser range.
Still i don't consider ECM in its current form okay and i don't consider Gauss okay. Nobody uses Gauss anymore. Nearly nobody uses LRMs anymore. That can't be right.
I more or less agree with your opinion of LRMs, though you can still see organized teams with them as their backbone. I'm not sure why you think there are too few people using gauss at the moment; I was under the impression that there were too many people using gauss before. I think balance feels pretty good now (maybe SRMs are a little overpowered).
To be honest i havent seen one Gauss in two days. Not ONE.
Okay, it does 15 damage. Okay, it has a range of 2k. Okay, it generates practically no heat. But it has a weight of 15 tons. You wouldn't fit it on a mech with a XL engine. You wouldn't fit it on a mech without case. And even if you heed both advices it STILL takes down the sidetorso with it. And it needs ammunition. You spend 15+ tons on a kamikaze device. There are better options.
Explosion should occur only if the magnetic coils are charged, so maybe the explosive effect should "phase out" as the guns are fired. I don't know. As it is, its unacceptable. Yes, if a weapon gets rejected by an entire community there is something wrong with it.
Its just a mix of lasers/SRM with occasionally LRMs thrown in.
You see loads of ECMs, wich make LRMs practically worthless. YES, there is TAG but you kinda need to close to do that. Wich means that as a LRM mech you don't fit TAG because there is no range advantage then. You may fit SRMs instead. And a light spotter wouldn't fit TAG because there are likely no LRM boats. The only coincidence that can happen is that a streak-SRM fits TAG, accidently being assigned to a team with a LRM boat (not an optimal configuration ATM). Then somebody is tagging for the LRMs, given the LRM is in the same area and notices it - then... maybe, as long as the SRM mech stays alive.
Basically it boils down to this:
1)LRMs are worthless because of ECM, therfore no LRMs are brought into the game
2)therfore no ECMs are brought into the game
3)therefore LRMs are brought into the game again
4)therefore ECMs are brought into the game again
5)goto 1)
One *may* be lucky bringing a LRM boat and nobody bringing ECM because everybody thinks there won't by any LRMs in any case.
hardly anyone uses gauss???? baaaaaaaaaahahahaaahaha! it may have a higher chance to explode and take out your torso, but a ton of people still use it. i see gauss every single game. i use it in a lot of my phract builds where its in the torso with an XL. i cant even recall a time where it exploded and took my engine out.
I have seen no drop off of Gauss usage whatsoever. I don't even consider the explosions when I put the weapon on a mech. Yeah, it hurts, but it's my fault if I'm losing the torso anyways. I set an XL engine in my mech, why the hell am I taking that much damage?
LRMs are indeed not in a great position, but my Stalker self TAGs and carries four MLAS. Good positioning can lead to cocky DDCs melting from mass bee attacks.
The missiles look like bees. Is that the joke now? This vacation is too long.
I use gauss and Lrm extensively and have no problem finishing in top 3 regularly. Yes you are screwed as Lrm centric build and someone closes on you but that doesn't stop me from using them to good effect.
While I absolutely prefer dropping with other oosiks, I am more likely to finish top 3 when pubbing due to the general horribleness of pub groups and not feeling responsible to keep the team alive vs myself alive. Point being you can run lrm solo but must use more caution then you would when on a team.
2x Lrm 20 + Artemis+ tag can put a ton of hurt on anything but you must watch out for 2x gauss snipers and fastbacks as well as being flanked by scouts. Atlas dc can be a problem too if they are smart but often they are poorly piloted due to the assumption that ECM will render them immune from Lrm bombardment.
The current situation with LRMs is made complex by a number of reasons. One, people are taking assault mechs and turning them into LRM-only mechs because they think "hurr, hurr, I can kill everything easy". A good LRM user can be a real problem, but your Stalker with eighty million LRMs is completely useless against a) cover and b) that brawling Atlas the game matched your slot against that has ECM and uses cover. LRM Catapults also bring in Cataphracts, Dragons, SRM Cats, or (the still stupid) Gaussapults and AC/20 Cats, which all generally murder LRM Cats or the Cat's team. Lights with LRMs are just total ass. So right now, medium mechs are really the only "good" class to make an LRM mech in, because the craziest thing they can bring in is a Sprinturion (which can totally get pasted before doing anything crazy). Then you have a mech which, if destroyed, doesn't cripple the team, but neither is its counterpart completely insane.
Two, even with TAG equipped, ECM really knocks the wind out of LRMs and ECM is very common. Three, any mech that goes too heavy on LRMs is ass in close-range combat, which is where all the brawlers excel and consequently stomp LRM mechs. Four, without team support, virtually any LRM mech in a pub match is completely screwed against a team with even a couple moderately intelligent player or almost any premade group.
Which is why I liked the LRM Centurion D. If you wanted, you could put TAG in there (at the cost of half your energy armament), but you are in a fast mech with solid armor that can evade any brawler mech and reposition so that cover isn't an issue AND you don't bring in enemy mechs that are going to flat-out murder your teammates (unless they're stupid and don't watch their backs in case a Sprinturion is around). You don't have a massive amount of ammo, but you don't need that ammo because you aren't flinging missiles at enemies you can't see and hoping for the best. Plus, people inherently ignore you because you're at the smaller end of the mech spectrum, as opposed to LRM Stalkers or Catapults where their first missile salvo is a big "come kill me!" sign.
Not to mention that you also get to be super-aggressive while using LRMs, which is a pretty unique experience. People are plenty used to big LRM fire coming at them from the direction of enemy base, but never used to it coming from the completely bizarre angles a Cent D with LRMs can safely reach. Outside of premade team play, I would strongly recommend the Missileturion overy virtually anything else if people want to be able to use LRMs without screwing over their pub team or being extremely hobbled by people smartly using cover or huddling under ECM.
There are problems with the game in its current state.
1) ECM makes LRMs usless. It set off by a bug at this time somewhat, making it semi-playable.
2) TAG counters ECM. Currently it works THROUGH terrain.
3) Gauss Cannons will explode, with case they will "only" take out the entire side, but not if you fited an XL engine, in which case its... instant reactor death if one explodes.
So LRMs are practically off the table, Gauss are practically off the table.
Not a very nice situation.
Despite that i still find the game addicting. Its simply in a horrible shape ATM.
I have to side with this guy in his assesment. To be fair it has to be sait that the situation got a bit better since the videos were made.
That being said, "more or less" means for me playing an modified AWS-8Q, with 3 PPCs, upgraded to FF armor, added a heatsink, shaved off armor COMPLETELY of the non-weapon arm and a hint of a layer from the legs using the extra 3 tons for the addition of 2 extra medium lasers for enhance close range capability and anti-light armament. I have to say i had my doubts about the heatmanagement, but it works increadible. Thats quite a nice punch against semi-closing targets. They die now as soon as they get into laser range.
Still i don't consider ECM in its current form okay and i don't consider Gauss okay. Nobody uses Gauss anymore. Nearly nobody uses LRMs anymore. That can't be right.
I more or less agree with your opinion of LRMs, though you can still see organized teams with them as their backbone. I'm not sure why you think there are too few people using gauss at the moment; I was under the impression that there were too many people using gauss before. I think balance feels pretty good now (maybe SRMs are a little overpowered).
I managed to watch 2 minutes of the first video before my brain came out of my nose, and I had to skip through the second because the sarcasm voice made aforementioned leaked brain erupt into flames in front of me, so please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I can tell.
Video 1: These changes are stupid because those tactics can be countered by hiding and flanking.
Video 2: This game is stupid because you can win by hiding and flanking.
Although, to give credit where credit is due, a C1 with 2xLL and 2xML is a pretty nasty build.
Of course, it's basically a laser version of the gauss cat, in spirit. By ignoring the chassis' intended design emphasis and instead focusing on something that, in effect, gives you a lot more protection than you should have.
To be honest i havent seen one Gauss in two days. Not ONE.
Okay, it does 15 damage. Okay, it has a range of 2k. Okay, it generates practically no heat. But it has a weight of 15 tons. You wouldn't fit it on a mech with a XL engine. You wouldn't fit it on a mech without case. And even if you heed both advices it STILL takes down the sidetorso with it. And it needs ammunition. You spend 15+ tons on a kamikaze device. There are better options.
Explosion should occur only if the magnetic coils are charged, so maybe the explosive effect should "phase out" as the guns are fired. I don't know. As it is, its unacceptable. Yes, if a weapon gets rejected by an entire community there is something wrong with it.
Its just a mix of lasers/SRM with occasionally LRMs thrown in.
You see loads of ECMs, wich make LRMs practically worthless. YES, there is TAG but you kinda need to close to do that. Wich means that as a LRM mech you don't fit TAG because there is no range advantage then. You may fit SRMs instead. And a light spotter wouldn't fit TAG because there are likely no LRM boats. The only coincidence that can happen is that a streak-SRM fits TAG, accidently being assigned to a team with a LRM boat (not an optimal configuration ATM). Then somebody is tagging for the LRMs, given the LRM is in the same area and notices it - then... maybe, as long as the SRM mech stays alive.
Basically it boils down to this:
1)LRMs are worthless because of ECM, therfore no LRMs are brought into the game
2)therfore no ECMs are brought into the game
3)therefore LRMs are brought into the game again
4)therefore ECMs are brought into the game again
5)goto 1)
One *may* be lucky bringing a LRM boat and nobody bringing ECM because everybody thinks there won't by any LRMs in any case.
ECM may be giving LRM boats a hard time, but you dont remember when that was the flavor of the month? Entire sides of maps could not be used because 3 or 4 lrm boats would kill everyone before they could cross that open field. You. had. to. go. 3 corridor on caustic. anything else was death. You HAD to go cave side on forest (before the ship was thrown in there) because you would be lit up before making it between the spires. ECM is a game changer (could use some tweeking, still) but you can no longer sit at base lobbing LRMs with impunity.
Guass was fine as is. the problem has always been that the K2 put them in highly protected Left and right torsos due to the geometry of the mech. put those ballistic points in the arms, and people would have less problem with them.
The problem I have with that second video of the gankenstein is that he spends the first half of the match "flanking" and calls it "tactics". In reality he got lucky that he didn't run into the entire other team in the tunnel....and he simply broke off from the rest of the team and let them fend for themselves. And what does his several minute "tactical flank" get him? Just to end up with part of his team near theta then kappa anyway. He then simply "mops" up getting the kills that the rest of the team were already whittling down...
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Y/N?
Assumptions: For ES vs. FF, I make the assumption that you can't take both (which is obviously better than one or the other), because almost no build has enough critical slots free to take both at the same time.
Takeaway points: FF is never worth it over ES, ever. The amount of armor you need to make FF's freed up weight equivalent to ES's is impossible to achieve for each tonnage. I think they need to change FF so that it allows you to have more total armor rather than lighter armor, but, that's how it is now.
DHS vs. SHS is not as straight a comparison as it would seem. If you're not taking a lot of heat sinks, DHS are certainly a much better option. However, once you start to take a lot of them (say if you're running a beam build), you quickly run out of slots for DHSs, as DHSs are tonnage efficient but space inefficient.
MATH!
The Raven 3L is awesome.
It's a nice idea, but you'll have track both lasers separately, since the LL has more range. If you use it as a big ML you'll be fine, but you'll probably find yourself shooting your ML at targets way too far away quite a few times, I'd imagine.
ULTRACAT!!!™®©
Sorry about that, was talking about SSRMs. Left off an "s" :P
no counter except for an ECM in counter mode, or TAG.
Just sucks to be pubbing and no one on your team took things that help, so you're basically worthless the entire game.
If you're pubbing, you're probably better off switching to a brawler build since you can't guarantee your team composition.
I once dropped in an LRM Stalker, and my buddy in an Ilya. The only ECM mech on the team sat in counter mode, about two grid blocks away from any sort of usefulness.
I learned my lesson that day. Can't depend on anyone but your drop buddies.
edit: Also dicking around with a 6xSRM6 pult. It feels so wrong, but coring someone in 1 hit is pretty good I guess.
Yeah, a good LRM user on a real team is explosive murder, especially with a partner calling targets and providing TAG. Conversely, even the best LRM mech user ever is going to generally suck when dropped with a pub team; without a screen of aware teammates, most LRM mechs are just big, fat targets in pub matches.
Except for a Cent D going 100 kph with two LRM launchers. That's probably one of the only solid universal LRM mechs I've seen, simply because you can run away from the big stuff and will have absolutely zero trouble keeping up with teammates while keeping the enemy far enough away to hit. Not the best LRM mech overall, but it works pretty well if you just need to sling LRMs and don't want to be completely hosed by idiot teammates.
It does have a weak secondary armament, though, so you can't completely ignore your team.
That's a helpful conclusion - I always figured you might reach a point with some mechs where they have enough armor to make the FF savings worthwhile. Guess not.
Armor count scales linearly with tonnage, so there aren't any "bunker" mechs out there to make the most of FF over ES. Which is good, because pubbies would be extra incompetent with a mech like that.
This is the main reason I'm thinking about picking up a Centi. The speed to get myself out of trouble would be nice. All to often I find myself getting isolated somehow and picked apart by lights.
My 4SP has Artemis for the SRMs, so I've been curious to try out a build with LRMs instead. But as everyone's said here, it'd get stomped in pub matches without someone watching my back.
Two, even with TAG equipped, ECM really knocks the wind out of LRMs and ECM is very common. Three, any mech that goes too heavy on LRMs is ass in close-range combat, which is where all the brawlers excel and consequently stomp LRM mechs. Four, without team support, virtually any LRM mech in a pub match is completely screwed against a team with even a couple moderately intelligent player or almost any premade group.
Which is why I liked the LRM Centurion D. If you wanted, you could put TAG in there (at the cost of half your energy armament), but you are in a fast mech with solid armor that can evade any brawler mech and reposition so that cover isn't an issue AND you don't bring in enemy mechs that are going to flat-out murder your teammates (unless they're stupid and don't watch their backs in case a Sprinturion is around). You don't have a massive amount of ammo, but you don't need that ammo because you aren't flinging missiles at enemies you can't see and hoping for the best. Plus, people inherently ignore you because you're at the smaller end of the mech spectrum, as opposed to LRM Stalkers or Catapults where their first missile salvo is a big "come kill me!" sign.
Not to mention that you also get to be super-aggressive while using LRMs, which is a pretty unique experience. People are plenty used to big LRM fire coming at them from the direction of enemy base, but never used to it coming from the completely bizarre angles a Cent D with LRMs can safely reach. Outside of premade team play, I would strongly recommend the Missileturion overy virtually anything else if people want to be able to use LRMs without screwing over their pub team or being extremely hobbled by people smartly using cover or huddling under ECM.
There are problems with the game in its current state.
1) ECM makes LRMs usless. It set off by a bug at this time somewhat, making it semi-playable.
2) TAG counters ECM. Currently it works THROUGH terrain.
3) Gauss Cannons will explode, with case they will "only" take out the entire side, but not if you fited an XL engine, in which case its... instant reactor death if one explodes.
So LRMs are practically off the table, Gauss are practically off the table.
Not a very nice situation.
Despite that i still find the game addicting. Its simply in a horrible shape ATM.
I have to side with this guy in his assesment. To be fair it has to be sait that the situation got a bit better since the videos were made.
Its degenerated into all mechs more or less worrking like:
That being said, "more or less" means for me playing an modified AWS-8Q, with 3 PPCs, upgraded to FF armor, added a heatsink, shaved off armor COMPLETELY of the non-weapon arm and a hint of a layer from the legs using the extra 3 tons for the addition of 2 extra medium lasers for enhance close range capability and anti-light armament. I have to say i had my doubts about the heatmanagement, but it works increadible. Thats quite a nice punch against semi-closing targets. They die now as soon as they get into laser range.
Still i don't consider ECM in its current form okay and i don't consider Gauss okay. Nobody uses Gauss anymore. Nearly nobody uses LRMs anymore. That can't be right.
I more or less agree with your opinion of LRMs, though you can still see organized teams with them as their backbone. I'm not sure why you think there are too few people using gauss at the moment; I was under the impression that there were too many people using gauss before. I think balance feels pretty good now (maybe SRMs are a little overpowered).
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Okay, it does 15 damage. Okay, it has a range of 2k. Okay, it generates practically no heat. But it has a weight of 15 tons. You wouldn't fit it on a mech with a XL engine. You wouldn't fit it on a mech without case. And even if you heed both advices it STILL takes down the sidetorso with it. And it needs ammunition. You spend 15+ tons on a kamikaze device. There are better options.
Explosion should occur only if the magnetic coils are charged, so maybe the explosive effect should "phase out" as the guns are fired. I don't know. As it is, its unacceptable. Yes, if a weapon gets rejected by an entire community there is something wrong with it.
Its just a mix of lasers/SRM with occasionally LRMs thrown in.
You see loads of ECMs, wich make LRMs practically worthless. YES, there is TAG but you kinda need to close to do that. Wich means that as a LRM mech you don't fit TAG because there is no range advantage then. You may fit SRMs instead. And a light spotter wouldn't fit TAG because there are likely no LRM boats. The only coincidence that can happen is that a streak-SRM fits TAG, accidently being assigned to a team with a LRM boat (not an optimal configuration ATM). Then somebody is tagging for the LRMs, given the LRM is in the same area and notices it - then... maybe, as long as the SRM mech stays alive.
Basically it boils down to this:
1)LRMs are worthless because of ECM, therfore no LRMs are brought into the game
2)therfore no ECMs are brought into the game
3)therefore LRMs are brought into the game again
4)therefore ECMs are brought into the game again
5)goto 1)
One *may* be lucky bringing a LRM boat and nobody bringing ECM because everybody thinks there won't by any LRMs in any case.
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LRMs are indeed not in a great position, but my Stalker self TAGs and carries four MLAS. Good positioning can lead to cocky DDCs melting from mass bee attacks.
The missiles look like bees. Is that the joke now? This vacation is too long.
While I absolutely prefer dropping with other oosiks, I am more likely to finish top 3 when pubbing due to the general horribleness of pub groups and not feeling responsible to keep the team alive vs myself alive. Point being you can run lrm solo but must use more caution then you would when on a team.
2x Lrm 20 + Artemis+ tag can put a ton of hurt on anything but you must watch out for 2x gauss snipers and fastbacks as well as being flanked by scouts. Atlas dc can be a problem too if they are smart but often they are poorly piloted due to the assumption that ECM will render them immune from Lrm bombardment.
Yeah fuck that guy.
I managed to watch 2 minutes of the first video before my brain came out of my nose, and I had to skip through the second because the sarcasm voice made aforementioned leaked brain erupt into flames in front of me, so please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I can tell.
Video 1: These changes are stupid because those tactics can be countered by hiding and flanking.
Video 2: This game is stupid because you can win by hiding and flanking.
I think that should summarize the events adequately.
Of course, it's basically a laser version of the gauss cat, in spirit. By ignoring the chassis' intended design emphasis and instead focusing on something that, in effect, gives you a lot more protection than you should have.
2xPPCs would be nasty, though.
ECM may be giving LRM boats a hard time, but you dont remember when that was the flavor of the month? Entire sides of maps could not be used because 3 or 4 lrm boats would kill everyone before they could cross that open field. You. had. to. go. 3 corridor on caustic. anything else was death. You HAD to go cave side on forest (before the ship was thrown in there) because you would be lit up before making it between the spires. ECM is a game changer (could use some tweeking, still) but you can no longer sit at base lobbing LRMs with impunity.
Guass was fine as is. the problem has always been that the K2 put them in highly protected Left and right torsos due to the geometry of the mech. put those ballistic points in the arms, and people would have less problem with them.
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