Almost like you were one dude against a whole city of crazies!
But for real I can see how this game could get way frustrating on hard/1999.
I know why it was done, just that you don't realize how used to having a radar/minimap you are until it's not there. I even caught myself quickly darting my eyes to the corner of the screen like I would in Dota/SC2/Name FPS Here, and then going "Oh right, it's not here".
That doesn't make it a bad design decision, just something to adjust to.
Oh yeah, makes total sense. I actually really dig it. I think in general, the less videogamey shit on the screen, the better. Especially in a game as immersive as this. I turned off the tutorial pop ups (and health bars), though it sort of bit me in the ass as I had no idea how the hook executions worked until I read about them here.
Hehe, I'm the opposite...I even turned damage numbers on. Even in games with high immersion, I am all about tactical information.
Fair play man. I'd come from just playing a shit ton of peace walker and the switch of pace threw me off for a bit.
Question! Mid-game spoiler:
So if you draw your weapon in the station, do you still get to rock that rad bandage care of Stabby McHandstabs?
Almost like you were one dude against a whole city of crazies!
But for real I can see how this game could get way frustrating on hard/1999.
I know why it was done, just that you don't realize how used to having a radar/minimap you are until it's not there. I even caught myself quickly darting my eyes to the corner of the screen like I would in Dota/SC2/Name FPS Here, and then going "Oh right, it's not here".
That doesn't make it a bad design decision, just something to adjust to.
Oh yeah, makes total sense. I actually really dig it. I think in general, the less videogamey shit on the screen, the better. Especially in a game as immersive as this. I turned off the tutorial pop ups (and health bars), though it sort of bit me in the ass as I had no idea how the hook executions worked until I read about them here.
Hehe, I'm the opposite...I even turned damage numbers on. Even in games with high immersion, I am all about tactical information.
Fair play man. I'd come from just playing a shit ton of peace walker and the switch of pace threw me off for a bit.
Question! Mid-game spoiler:
So if you draw your weapon in the station, do you still get to rock that rad bandage care of Stabby McHandstabs?
Almost like you were one dude against a whole city of crazies!
But for real I can see how this game could get way frustrating on hard/1999.
I know why it was done, just that you don't realize how used to having a radar/minimap you are until it's not there. I even caught myself quickly darting my eyes to the corner of the screen like I would in Dota/SC2/Name FPS Here, and then going "Oh right, it's not here".
That doesn't make it a bad design decision, just something to adjust to.
Oh yeah, makes total sense. I actually really dig it. I think in general, the less videogamey shit on the screen, the better. Especially in a game as immersive as this. I turned off the tutorial pop ups (and health bars), though it sort of bit me in the ass as I had no idea how the hook executions worked until I read about them here.
Hehe, I'm the opposite...I even turned damage numbers on. Even in games with high immersion, I am all about tactical information.
Fair play man. I'd come from just playing a shit ton of peace walker and the switch of pace threw me off for a bit.
Question! Mid-game spoiler:
So if you draw your weapon in the station, do you still get to rock that rad bandage care of Stabby McHandstabs?
I don't remember having one.
That is so cool!
So is there any dialogue between them two after? Do you just draw and cap the guy in the dome?
Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
There is still an element of sickness there, just not for Elizabeth.
When she alters the time/dimension continuum, and someone begins to remember their "other memories", it will cause them to go insane, and their nose starts to bleed as their mind tries to reconcile all these memories together. This is especially true when someone 'remembers' dying in another dimension.
Almost like you were one dude against a whole city of crazies!
But for real I can see how this game could get way frustrating on hard/1999.
I've got swarmed a few times and it's usually because of overconfidence making me push in too far. There are many times where after a fight I look around the room and find tons of stuff I could have used but didn't see because I stayed by the entrance the whole time. Hard isn't difficult so long as you keep your distance, but sometimes it doesn't always work out. Especially in (late game)
the memorial with the ghosts, that was the biggest clusterfuck fight. I was focusing too much on her ghosts and I used up all of the medkits, ran out of ammo on my own guns and had to swap to ones that were laying about.
Yeah that fight was bullshit, until I realize I can kill all her minions she spawns with a well timed upgraded devil kiss and the appropriate equipment. Then it became a matter of plinking away at her health bar (I really wish bosses/mid-bosses didn't have so much health. The tension quickly melts away once you 'figure' out the fight and forced to slowly plink away at their health).
That fight took forever but was pretty decent using Return to Sender.
Ghost dudes shoot at me, I catch the bullets, toss bullet bomb at mama.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
+1
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
the large areas in this game remind me why I hate FPSes with no radar system. Getting flanked from two sides and having tons of enemies jumping up your ass and no way to keep track of them gets really annoying.
This wasn't really a problem in Bioshock 1 and 2 because the areas weren't very large and were mostly corridors so it was easy to keep foes in front or behind you, but the later areas in this game are really annoying when you have enemies swarming all over you.
Yes. This is the one major mechanical issue I had with the game, how easy it was to end up flanked on all sides, getting hit by enemies you didn't even see run up as you were focusing on a more important target.
It's hard to get flanked when you're flying around the level on a skyhook
the large areas in this game remind me why I hate FPSes with no radar system. Getting flanked from two sides and having tons of enemies jumping up your ass and no way to keep track of them gets really annoying.
This wasn't really a problem in Bioshock 1 and 2 because the areas weren't very large and were mostly corridors so it was easy to keep foes in front or behind you, but the later areas in this game are really annoying when you have enemies swarming all over you.
Yes. This is the one major mechanical issue I had with the game, how easy it was to end up flanked on all sides, getting hit by enemies you didn't even see run up as you were focusing on a more important target.
It's hard to get flanked when you're flying around the level on a skyhook
I oddly did very little of this, and really only when the game made it very clear this is how I was supposed to do the encounter.
So, I'm around an hour in and while its fantastic and I'm really enjoying it, are there no horror/tense elements in as in previous *shock* games?
I'm not all the way through, but there certainly aren't as many. Maybe one or two. There is one part, I think probably around 3/4 of the way through the game:
At Comstock House, when you finally make it to pull that level for whatever it was I can't remember, and when you turn around that Watcher guy is standing right behind you and then screams at the top of his lungs. I just about jumped right out of my chair.
I jumped too - almost gave me a fucking heart attack.
Yep. Definitely one of the better jump scares I have ever seen. It was fairly late at night in my house and I made an embarrassingly loud noise when it happened.
The game can be tense, but it's not a horror game. That's part of what makes that moment pretty effective, you think you're safe!
If there is a skyline I will be on it until everyone is dead.
I'm shit at spotting enemies while I'm on the skyline, much less actually hitting them when there's so much movement going on. In terms of reflexes, I'm an old man.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Other interesting thing: Didn't the earlier trailers imply that when Elizabeth
alters reality with a Tear
She gets sick? I guess they cut that out.
The original implication seemed to be some kind of Choice mechanic much like the Little Sisters/Big Daddies, in that she COULD make those holes in reality, but doing it too often would be bad for her. I'm glad they took it out, I think.
I literally spent the whole game not using any of the tears because I was sure it'd come back to bite me on the ass, like she'd die or something if you used them. Going to run through it on 1999 mode and use all the tears now.
Some of the things they put into this game are really brutal to watch.
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
Right that was properly amazing, surpassed my expectations.
Just for clarification though
So as Elizabeth mentions the single constant throughout all the universes is the city and the man, but there was a small sub group of universes where all of Booker's realities played out that all featured a slightly different version of Columbia.
By the same kind of thinking then I guess there are a bunch of different raptures and as one of the Voxophones mentioned Fink must have used one of the tears to see the big daddies and use the same kind of technology for the songbird?
Some of the things they put into this game are really brutal to watch.
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
kind of made my stomach churn.
I totally agree. I'm suprised they weren't eating each other. I hope lots of people who play this see what "the good old days" entails.
3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Some of the things they put into this game are really brutal to watch.
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
kind of made my stomach churn.
I totally agree. I'm suprised they weren't eating each other. I hope lots of people who play this see what "the good old days" entails.
The problem is that most of the people that play this will be younger, already progressive leaning, and will be the choir preached to. The people who actually think the good ole days were good are not playing BioShock. Even if they did, they would dismiss it as the game taking liberties, rather than a pretty accurate depiction of the turn of the century.
Does anyone know how to get to that piece of clothing behind the gate in the graveyard? I want that damn piece so bad but I can't tear a lock on there or anything.
I was wondering about that one too.
Sorry for the late reply, just getting caught up on the thread.
you have to use Zelda skills 101, light the torches either side of the door
Does anyone know how to get to that piece of clothing behind the gate in the graveyard? I want that damn piece so bad but I can't tear a lock on there or anything.
I was wondering about that one too.
Sorry for the late reply, just getting caught up on the thread.
you have to use Zelda skills 101, light the torches either side of the door
Which is a call back to Arcadia in BioShock. Clever.
Some of the things they put into this game are really brutal to watch.
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
where they were auctioning off jobs to the lowest bidder
kind of made my stomach churn.
I totally agree. I'm suprised they weren't eating each other. I hope lots of people who play this see what "the good old days" entails.
The problem is that most of the people that play this will be younger, already progressive leaning, and will be the choir preached to. The people who actually think the good ole days were good are not playing BioShock. Even if they did, they would dismiss it as the game taking liberties, rather than a pretty accurate depiction of the turn of the century.
Twitter is already full of people using the words "exaggeration", "caricature", "can't take it seriously, it's too unbelievable".
I imagine those people don't pay attention to current events.
Does anyone know how to get to that piece of clothing behind the gate in the graveyard? I want that damn piece so bad but I can't tear a lock on there or anything.
I was wondering about that one too.
Sorry for the late reply, just getting caught up on the thread.
you have to use Zelda skills 101, light the torches either side of the door
Which is a callback to Arcadia all the way back in Bioshock.
FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
So, having had a bit more time to digest the game, I have some questions. Warning, MAJOR spoilers.
1) The Luteces. What was their angle in all of this? I get that initially they were just in it for the science. Yet after Comstock tried to have them killed, they now essentially exist everywhere and nowhere at once, simultaneously. They also can still clearly interact with the physical world. So... why do they care about any of this? They're essentially gods. Was it just petty revenge against Comstock? They certainly seem to still have some sense of scientific curiosity, but at the same time they also seem to have a more specific agenda. I just feel like they were lacking solid motivation, which at times made them feel more like plot devices than characters.
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
I really enjoyed the game, but like many triple A games these days, it felt very front-loaded. Up til you meet Daisy Fitzroy, everything is perfect. After that, it's still good, but the Finkton and Vox Populi plots are the weakest part of the game, as has been mentioned elsewhere. There's no need to get the airship back from Daisy when you could always steal another, and there's no need to go to another dimension for Li Chen when Elizabeth can already use tears to supply you with guns, and does so regularly.
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
Almost like you were one dude against a whole city of crazies!
But for real I can see how this game could get way frustrating on hard/1999.
I know why it was done, just that you don't realize how used to having a radar/minimap you are until it's not there. I even caught myself quickly darting my eyes to the corner of the screen like I would in Dota/SC2/Name FPS Here, and then going "Oh right, it's not here".
That doesn't make it a bad design decision, just something to adjust to.
Oh yeah, makes total sense. I actually really dig it. I think in general, the less videogamey shit on the screen, the better. Especially in a game as immersive as this. I turned off the tutorial pop ups (and health bars), though it sort of bit me in the ass as I had no idea how the hook executions worked until I read about them here.
Hehe, I'm the opposite...I even turned damage numbers on. Even in games with high immersion, I am all about tactical information.
Fair play man. I'd come from just playing a shit ton of peace walker and the switch of pace threw me off for a bit.
Question! Mid-game spoiler:
So if you draw your weapon in the station, do you still get to rock that rad bandage care of Stabby McHandstabs?
I don't remember having one.
I wonder if this actually has a subtle but HUGE impact on the rest of the game
The bandage covers up his brand.
Maybe if you aren't stabbed then police will attack you more easily since without the brand the only information they have on you is an inaccurate police sketch and a description of a 4'9" Asian anarchist. After failing to draw my weapon it definitely seemed odd that I cold walk up to police without them paying attention to me unless they saw me break the law.
Man, I was thinking back on the game and probably my favorite part of it was:
The twins discussing how woefully inadequate the language for discussing tense is when trying to talk about things happening in a multiverse.
It just embodied the story so much for me.
Definitely a cool idea.
Thinking on it: the concept of tense is also meaningless when referring to other universes. Even ignoring the possibility of other universes it can also be nonsensical due to relativity. Past, present, and future are never that clear cut and change with your perspective and the vector of your velocity.
Posts
It was literally
"Rape this child or Help her become free"
Yeah, that wasn't heavy handed at fucking all.
Fair play man. I'd come from just playing a shit ton of peace walker and the switch of pace threw me off for a bit.
Question! Mid-game spoiler:
I don't remember having one.
PSN: ChemENGR
That is so cool!
Ghost dudes shoot at me, I catch the bullets, toss bullet bomb at mama.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
It's hard to get flanked when you're flying around the level on a skyhook
I oddly did very little of this, and really only when the game made it very clear this is how I was supposed to do the encounter.
I jumped too - almost gave me a fucking heart attack.
The game can be tense, but it's not a horror game. That's part of what makes that moment pretty effective, you think you're safe!
LATE GAME SPOILERS ALL UP INS
Anyway, Columbia is suprisingly unmysogynist, wich makes sense considering the mythology of Columbia.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Zip around a bit, pick off a few guys. Zip around a bit more, fucking air assassinate a dude. Zip around some more.
does not get old
I'm shit at spotting enemies while I'm on the skyline, much less actually hitting them when there's so much movement going on. In terms of reflexes, I'm an old man.
It makes the game easier but it's so much fun I don't care.
I need to give my brain a second.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Bioshock 1 and 2 was pretty much: Crazy asshole capitalists under the sea in 1950 and what results when science and decadence runs rampant without any concern for morality or control. Which is fine, but kind of hard to imagine and easily within the realm of fiction. Very rarely in BS1&2 did you encounter genuine human beings who weren't insane, greedy, or morally corrupt.
Where as Bioshock Infinite is: Nationalists and religious zealots in the sky in 1910, who brought a lot of honest people with them to support their sanctimonious way of life. In this game, you meet a lot of innocent people who are just trying to get by and be a part of society. Its gut-wrenching to me seeing the racism, discrimination, hatred, desperation... and just people clawing and climbing over each other just to feed their families and survive... and the people at the top taking advantage of that. Knowing that this was honestly what our society was like and how terrible the great depression was hits home with me.
The scene in Finkton...
Then I thought why there wasn't a skyline in the room before. Hell if I lived in Columbia I'd get a skyline across every room in my house.
Bedroom to bathroom, hook on my skyline and fly there.
A man can dream...
Just for clarification though
By the same kind of thinking then I guess there are a bunch of different raptures and as one of the Voxophones mentioned Fink must have used one of the tears to see the big daddies and use the same kind of technology for the songbird?
PSN: ChemENGR
I really hope they'll add it in a patch like they did with Bioshock.
Hopefully. Maybe I'll wait until then to do another playthrough. I have a huge backlog anyway
PSN: ChemENGR
I am
Getting mad. Going to try what maintenance I know how to do and maybe delete some local files, hope this shit corrects itself
I totally agree. I'm suprised they weren't eating each other. I hope lots of people who play this see what "the good old days" entails.
The problem is that most of the people that play this will be younger, already progressive leaning, and will be the choir preached to. The people who actually think the good ole days were good are not playing BioShock. Even if they did, they would dismiss it as the game taking liberties, rather than a pretty accurate depiction of the turn of the century.
Bravely Default / 3DS Friend Code = 3394-3571-1609
Which is a call back to Arcadia in BioShock. Clever.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Twitter is already full of people using the words "exaggeration", "caricature", "can't take it seriously, it's too unbelievable".
I imagine those people don't pay attention to current events.
Which is a callback to Arcadia all the way back in Bioshock.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
2) I'm less interested in what Songbird was than I am in who Songbird was. He's clearly partly biological, and the Fink voxophone strongly implies a person was used in Songbird's construction. The "Booker is Comstock" ending really blindsided me, because I was expecting Songbird to be the alternate Booker, from the past or another reality, where he was captured and turned into Elizabeth's eternal guardian. I sort of wonder if that true in an early draft, since Elizabeth also kills Songbird by submerging him in water. I'm just a bit let down that Songbird didn't get more development, since he featured so heavily in promotional material. Aside from a couple of brief run-ins, you only get two substantial encounters with him.
3) Just how divergent are Booker and Comstock's timelines? I know Comstock was rendered sterile by the Luteces' machinery, but he's also noticeably older in the game. Did he give up his own daughter, and was then rendered sterile? Or did he never have a daughter at all in this reality?
4) Why, exactly, did Elizabeth never just go through a tear to Paris while she was imprisoned? This is mentioned, briefly, in the game, with her saying something about feeling compelled to return to the only "family" she ever knew. I find this insufficient explanation. It feels too much like the writers just ducking the issue, especially since Elizabeth later compares living in her tower to being like death.
General thoughts:
What they really needed was a more prolonged middle section where you navigate the city, engaging in exploration and maybe some sidequests, dodging both sides, allowing for incidents like this or this, or even this. Daisy and the Vox Populi should have wanted Elizabeth for themselves, to use her power to give them guns and ships and anything else they might need, while Booker and Elizabeth are just searching for another way off Columbia, probably with another big Songbird encounter (maybe even a boss fight of sorts) mid-game to build up the antagonism. Maybe another Comstock appearance as well; he felt a very distant, uninteresting villain until the big revelation. I would have greatly preferred it if the middle section had also more interactions with the citizens, or lengthier sections where you're not fighting. I was very disappointed, upon reaching the area where the Vox Populi were taking over Founders territory, that they became hostile on sight, and you have almost no chance to wander through the chaos and witness its effect on the citizens, aside from that bit with the boat early on.
However, things pick up rapidly in ending, and the game finishes strongly
It just embodied the story so much for me.
I wonder if this actually has a subtle but HUGE impact on the rest of the game
Maybe if you aren't stabbed then police will attack you more easily since without the brand the only information they have on you is an inaccurate police sketch and a description of a 4'9" Asian anarchist. After failing to draw my weapon it definitely seemed odd that I cold walk up to police without them paying attention to me unless they saw me break the law.
re: beginning of game but with the ending in mind:
also, they have plenty of foreshadowing dialogue if you just wait on the boat
Thinking on it: the concept of tense is also meaningless when referring to other universes. Even ignoring the possibility of other universes it can also be nonsensical due to relativity. Past, present, and future are never that clear cut and change with your perspective and the vector of your velocity.
Edit: damn auto correct