For anyone considering building a whole extra PC just for their TV, unless you have money to burn, you may want to consider just buying a crazy long HDMI cable and running it from your main PC to your TV like I have. www.monoprice.com has HDMI cables extremely cheap. If your PC and TV are in the same room, then this is an easy process but if it's not, fishing wire can be a nuisance I admit.
Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read through the entire thread.
I love Big Picture though. Switch over to my TV, fire on Big Picture and I can sit back with my controller without having to touch the mouse. It's pretty great.
Doesn't the audio/video signal quality degrade over long hdmi cables though?
cables over about 50' have repeaters built into them, that use the bus power that a hdmi port provides to boost the signal about halfway down the line. But even then 100' is about the limit that you can get out an actual hdmi cable. But if you really do need something longer then there is always hdmi over cat6, which using repeaters on it, you can get some very long distances before the signal degrades too much.
It's why if your building/renovating a house, you should include 3-5 cat6 cables going to each room and leading to a central location, that way in the future it's really really easy to run video/audio/network to any room.
For anyone considering building a whole extra PC just for their TV, unless you have money to burn, you may want to consider just buying a crazy long HDMI cable and running it from your main PC to your TV like I have. www.monoprice.com has HDMI cables extremely cheap. If your PC and TV are in the same room, then this is an easy process but if it's not, fishing wire can be a nuisance I admit.
Sorry if this has been brought up before, I just don't have time to read through the entire thread.
I love Big Picture though. Switch over to my TV, fire on Big Picture and I can sit back with my controller without having to touch the mouse. It's pretty great.
Doesn't the audio/video signal quality degrade over long hdmi cables though?
I'm using a 25' cable without any noticeable degradation. Works like a charm.
I'm not too sure, I lost the box for it, and I don't know how to look up the exact number on my PC. I think it might be a 5770 or 5775.
As for budget, I would have to see the different upgrade costs depending how powerful I want it to be. Ideally, I'd want to be able to max out nearly all games as well as have a consistent 60 fps. With my current specs I can put most stuff on high or very high and get a variable framerate that's almost always 60. In the case of Bioshock Infinite, 30 was the best I could do at almost max, so I have it limited to that.
So yeah, looking for near-max visuals and a consistent 60 fps.
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
According to your "Ideally" objectives, you're going to want a new CPU, mobo and RAM to go with your new video card to keep playing new games at those performance levels. What resolution are you gaming at?
Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
So, kind of a random question, but is there any kind of market on eBay or anywhere else for custom built Steam Boxes? After making my own, I love how it now feels like a traditional console while still having access to all the usual PC features when I need them. I'm curious if other people would be willing to buy a custom budget PC that had been tailored specifically to be a Steam Box. In other words, cheap, small form factor, Steam pre-installed and configured to be the primary interface, includes gamepad, etc.
What would you guys expect out of a Steam Box as opposed to just a normal custom built PC? How much would you be willing to pay?
Going to blow some of my tax return on a new HTPC/SteamBox. Primarily going to be used for HBOGo (when On Demand doesn't have something) and webstuff + steam gaming (Dirt, Darksiders, Dark Souls, etc that are good with controllers). I use my PS3 currently for netflix and amazon instant, probably will continue to do so. I'll probably get a tuner card later so I can drop the set-top box. Will be using HDMI out to receiver for audio/video. The case I'm looking to use supports full ATX, so I'm going that route.
Now, clearly this is massive overkill for a HTPC, but I want to be able to play games at high+ settings at 1920x1080 on my 50" plasma, so since i can fit ATX I went for a capable midrange gaming system. I figure this should kill, any parts you'd swap/upgrade/downgrade? Anything I'm forgetting (I didn't put in peripherals like controller/wireless keyboard/mouse/etc)?
Bullhead on
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
You could just slap a GTX 660Ti in your computer and call it a day, but your CPU is going to start holding that card back soon. It probably would already on some of the bigger meaner games like Battlefield 4.
Ideally, you'd wait to upgrade until after Haswell launches. If you want to save money, after Haswell comes out, buy a nice Ivy Bridge setup with a GTX670 in it, that'll be good for years yet at your resolution.
If you have more money to blow, get whatever Haswell chip and motherboard replaces the i5-3570K and the Z77, and slap a GTX 770 card in it.
That setup would fucking laugh in the face of pretty much any game coming out soon. And would be able to run pretty much anything forseeable at beautiful settings for the next 3 years or so.
Actually, I'm considering going for a more modest upgrade this year, instead of feverishly trying to create the best possible PC from the get-go.
Since you said that the more powerful components won't be available for a while yet, I was thinking that this year I could go for an upgrade that would both hold me over and also make the leap to the next upgrade easier. Like getting a motherboard that can accommodate whatever comes out in the next few years, a CPU that does the same thing, and perhaps settle for a more budgeted GPU that will get the job done on most games, but is filler for the heavy stuff coming later.
So, something mid-to-high tier that can play older PC games to max/near-max settings and with a steady framerate, no problem.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most TVs only support 1920x1080 when displaying a PC game on them? Both my '45 LCD and PC monitor go for a maximum of 1920x1080, which works for me as I don't have to manually adjust the resolutions on one display in order to fit everything in the other.
Haswell the next line of intel cpu will use a new socket type so you can't get a motherboard today that will support it.
Your best option would be to just buy a new gpu for now, that you can swap into your future system. As new amd cards won't really be an upgrade, and it will probably be a year till the mid-range nvidia cards are out, and those won't be so much better then what we have now that you will regret a purchase of something today.
Don't fall into the "I'll just wait for the next line of X to come out before buying" trap if that upgrade is more than a month or 2 away, just get what's good right now and you'll be happy.
So just get a new GPU that's compatible with my current mobo and CPU? What benefits could I get out of it, performance-wise?
well any gpu is compatible with any cpu, so that's not a consideration, and just about any motherboard is also compatible as the pci-e spec is backwards compatible (ie. a 16x card can work in a 1x slot, just a bit slower).
and benchmarks show that even something like a core2duo system will get considerable boost in graphics quality and fps from running a modern card.
and then when the new haswell line comes out sometime in June, then you already have a great gpu to put into the new system.
You could just wait till june/july to build the whole system, but just getting a gpu now at least lets you enjoy a little better performance for a few months.
I'm up for suggestions then. Anything that would give a considerable boost to graphics/performance.
I'm not particularly planning to rush in and buy Battlefield 4 on day one, but anything that lets me come close to maxing out Skyrim and Witcher 2 and giving a consistent 60 fps for both would be the ideal benchmark for me.
Geforce 660ti or 670 are real nice, depending on your budget.
Radeon 7950 or 7950 if you prefer the AMD cards.
I personally like Nvidia a little more for their control application options, but AMD are just fine as well.
and then just google up some specific benchmarks for those cards on the games you play the most to see if anything has a slight edge, but they're pretty even in each price bracket.
Tomb Raider hair tech is only on AMD cards, it's called TressFX, and it really doesn't make much difference, or at least not something that should influence a purchase.
Nvidia cards do PhysX which offloads physics effects to the gpu, so you get a few extra nifty things like better fluids, or fabrics moving a bit more naturaly, better smoke. But again it's not that big of a deal if you don't have them.
AMD has the hair thing (I forget what it's called myself) while NVidia has PhysX which is used in very very few games. Neither is worth getting one card over the other for. AMD cards are a much better buy right now with their Never Settle Reloaded games bundle. Of which they added Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon to today.
mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I was actually able to use TressFX on an nVidia card. But, it's entirely possible that it's similar to PhysX on AMD cards, where it's actually offloaded to the CPU if I remember correctly.
You can also run an older Nvidia card with either an AMD card or Nvidi card, change a few dll's, install a program, and offload all the PhysX processing to that card. I had a spare GTX 430 laying around and used it with my 6970 for BL2 with excellent results. I was able to run PhysX on medium before and the game ran fine, but it runs much much smoother with a dedicated card (particularly with an AMD card which offloads the processing to the CPU, so the better the CPU less impact it'll have).
in bl2 specifically i've noticed that the cpu based physX is running way better now than it used to. not sure what changes they made but it would tank my framerate when the game first came out and now it is butter smooth running on high.
Not sure if I'm looking at the right stuff, but the prices for the Geforce 670 are around the $350-$400 range. Yikes.
Before I get ahead of myself, what are the immediate advantages I would see for upgrading the GPU but leaving all of my other specs as is? Will I get an FPS boost? Adding more heavy-duty settings like supersampled AA without frame decrease? Stuff like that?
I just want to have a good understanding of what I would gain/not gain if I pursue this method. I'm also wondering how much I could get selling my old GPU, in an attempt to cover some of the new one's costs.
you should gain something like a 15-25 fps boost at 1080p, with an increase in a few things like AA, better textures, couple other things that are really just done on the gpu and ignore the cpu. But it depends exactly on the game.
600ti or a 7950 are only $280 if your budget is tight, and as a bonus the 7950 comes with free copies of crysis 3,bioshock infinite, and farcry blood dragon.
or if your budget is less then a 7870 is $230 or a 660 (non-ti version) is $200.
The 670/680 seem to be very overpriced compared to the 7950/7970/7970ghz. I can get a 7970 or 7970ghz for not a lot more than a 670, and the AMD cards are a much more powerful card. Any of these cards are going to be massive upgrade over whatever you have now even if they are possibly being limited by the CPU.
As far as selling your old card, it's worth almost nothing now. Stick it in a box and save it as a backup or HTPC.
$280 sounds like a reasonable range, as long as it's from a vendor that allows Bill Me Later or some other "No Finance for X months" promotion.
AA has always been something I've unchecked in games, since it's been reported that most titles don't show much of a visual difference when played on a big HDTV.
I've heard of some recent techniques that may be worth looking into, like downsampling.
7970/7970ghz
What's the difference between these two?
Usually I've chalked it up to the more letters added to a PC component, the better it is.
the ghz are just overclocked a bit, and it's something you can do yourself to a normal version of the card. So not really worth it.
And if your mostly playing on a tv that's a few feet away, then yes things like AA and AF don't make as large of a difference, as you can't see the jaggies from the distance anyway. But that leaves you some free gpu power to increase things that you may see like shadows, textures, lighting effects, etc.
I put this together for about $900 in 2009. Is there anything I can do for comparable/less to either upgrade this or build a new one that would be a noticeable performance boost? I'm thinking of putting together a new one and using the old tower for a Steam Box.
if you want two machines you can definitely get a better new machine within your price range, but that i5 setup with a new GPU would also work really well for current games.
you could potentially get a new videocard for that system and then build a cheaper system with the 4850 for your steambox
One thing to think about is that you don't really need to go the 2 machine route either.
if your 2 rooms are close enough, and you either don't mind a cable along the baseboard, or can run it through a cold air return vent, or the wall then you can get hdmi cables up to 130' long off monoprice, and then you just add a usb extension cable of the same length to get you receiver for your controller into range.
and very lag free wireless hdmi systems also exist that will get you around 100' ranges.
If you can run cables for $100-200 then that would save you a bunch to spend on upgrades to a single machine.
Its a myth that cheaper HDMI cables will give you poor signal quality over a long distance. HDMI cables will either work or they wont as it is a digital signal carrying a series of 1's and 0's. It is true that some very poor quality HDMI cables wont work at all over a long distance but that doesnt mean you need to spend a fortune. I bought a 20m HDMI cable from Proaudiovisual for $80 which I have in my ceiling and it works fine
I've got a pretty decent gaming PC, but I'd like to build a second, smaller one to hook up to my TV. My PC and TV are on different floors, and I rent so I don't want to go drilling holes in the floor, so running a cable isn't really practical. I don't want to spend a ton, since I'll do most of my heavy gaming on the existing PC, but something for couch use would be nice. This Verge post has a couple options for $300 which is around what I'd like to spend; how would these hold up for modern games at medium settings?
I5 3750k
Corsair M4 256 gig ssd
8 gigs Kingston hyper-something or other
Gigabyte Geforce 660 TI
My desktop runs a Saphire Radeon 7850 OC and honestly I don't see much difference between it and the new Geforce card I picked up. If I could roll back I'd just grab a cheaper Radeon card. The cooling on the gigabyte geforce card is nice tho.
I also went with a Bitfenix Prodigy case, awesome looking and fun to build, but make sure you measure your power supply, I wasn't paying attention and bought one too big, I had to swap it with the one from my desktop. If your going modular, you really can't go bigger than 145 mm long.
I'm running Steam BPM with Plex, still trying to find a good netflix app, also trying to find a way to use my controller as a mouse for when I need it.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Steam really needs a few good apps built into it, like Netflix and Pandora and HBO Go. And they need movie purchases/rentals
Basically, I want to never have to leave Big Picture mode for anything.
Since we were discussing earlier about solely upgrading my GPU, would this be the one to look into? Would the performance/benefits exceed the cards mentioned earlier, and would it still be compatible with my older specs?
Posts
cables over about 50' have repeaters built into them, that use the bus power that a hdmi port provides to boost the signal about halfway down the line. But even then 100' is about the limit that you can get out an actual hdmi cable. But if you really do need something longer then there is always hdmi over cat6, which using repeaters on it, you can get some very long distances before the signal degrades too much.
It's why if your building/renovating a house, you should include 3-5 cat6 cables going to each room and leading to a central location, that way in the future it's really really easy to run video/audio/network to any room.
I'm using a 25' cable without any noticeable degradation. Works like a charm.
Current specs:
ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1
4096MB RAM
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz x2 ~3000MHz
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Either way, it's either a 5750 or a 5770, both of which are getting pretty long in the tooth.
What do you think you could stretch your upgrade budget to?
As for budget, I would have to see the different upgrade costs depending how powerful I want it to be. Ideally, I'd want to be able to max out nearly all games as well as have a consistent 60 fps. With my current specs I can put most stuff on high or very high and get a variable framerate that's almost always 60. In the case of Bioshock Infinite, 30 was the best I could do at almost max, so I have it limited to that.
So yeah, looking for near-max visuals and a consistent 60 fps.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
What would you guys expect out of a Steam Box as opposed to just a normal custom built PC? How much would you be willing to pay?
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Case: Fractal Design Node 605
Mobo:MSI Z77A-GD65
CPU: i5-3570k
Mem: G.Skill Ripjaws 8gb (4gbx2)
GPU: MSI N650TI TF (GTX 650 TI BOOST)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM
Primary HD : Plextor M5P Xtreme 256Gb - For O/S, applications, and any speed demanding games (map loads/etc).
Secondary HD : WD Red 1TB sata 6 - For movie/etc storage, slower games, music. Will add more of these (or go to 2gb+) as needed.
Now, clearly this is massive overkill for a HTPC, but I want to be able to play games at high+ settings at 1920x1080 on my 50" plasma, so since i can fit ATX I went for a capable midrange gaming system. I figure this should kill, any parts you'd swap/upgrade/downgrade? Anything I'm forgetting (I didn't put in peripherals like controller/wireless keyboard/mouse/etc)?
You could just slap a GTX 660Ti in your computer and call it a day, but your CPU is going to start holding that card back soon. It probably would already on some of the bigger meaner games like Battlefield 4.
Ideally, you'd wait to upgrade until after Haswell launches. If you want to save money, after Haswell comes out, buy a nice Ivy Bridge setup with a GTX670 in it, that'll be good for years yet at your resolution.
If you have more money to blow, get whatever Haswell chip and motherboard replaces the i5-3570K and the Z77, and slap a GTX 770 card in it.
That setup would fucking laugh in the face of pretty much any game coming out soon. And would be able to run pretty much anything forseeable at beautiful settings for the next 3 years or so.
Since you said that the more powerful components won't be available for a while yet, I was thinking that this year I could go for an upgrade that would both hold me over and also make the leap to the next upgrade easier. Like getting a motherboard that can accommodate whatever comes out in the next few years, a CPU that does the same thing, and perhaps settle for a more budgeted GPU that will get the job done on most games, but is filler for the heavy stuff coming later.
So, something mid-to-high tier that can play older PC games to max/near-max settings and with a steady framerate, no problem.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most TVs only support 1920x1080 when displaying a PC game on them? Both my '45 LCD and PC monitor go for a maximum of 1920x1080, which works for me as I don't have to manually adjust the resolutions on one display in order to fit everything in the other.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Your best option would be to just buy a new gpu for now, that you can swap into your future system. As new amd cards won't really be an upgrade, and it will probably be a year till the mid-range nvidia cards are out, and those won't be so much better then what we have now that you will regret a purchase of something today.
Don't fall into the "I'll just wait for the next line of X to come out before buying" trap if that upgrade is more than a month or 2 away, just get what's good right now and you'll be happy.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
well any gpu is compatible with any cpu, so that's not a consideration, and just about any motherboard is also compatible as the pci-e spec is backwards compatible (ie. a 16x card can work in a 1x slot, just a bit slower).
and benchmarks show that even something like a core2duo system will get considerable boost in graphics quality and fps from running a modern card.
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Can-A-New-GPU-Rejuvenate-A-Five-Year-Old-Gaming-Rig-/
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/GPU-Redux-Can-Old-DualCores-Drive-A-Modern-Graphics-Card/
and then when the new haswell line comes out sometime in June, then you already have a great gpu to put into the new system.
You could just wait till june/july to build the whole system, but just getting a gpu now at least lets you enjoy a little better performance for a few months.
I'm not particularly planning to rush in and buy Battlefield 4 on day one, but anything that lets me come close to maxing out Skyrim and Witcher 2 and giving a consistent 60 fps for both would be the ideal benchmark for me.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Radeon 7950 or 7950 if you prefer the AMD cards.
I personally like Nvidia a little more for their control application options, but AMD are just fine as well.
and then just google up some specific benchmarks for those cards on the games you play the most to see if anything has a slight edge, but they're pretty even in each price bracket.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Nvidia cards do PhysX which offloads physics effects to the gpu, so you get a few extra nifty things like better fluids, or fabrics moving a bit more naturaly, better smoke. But again it's not that big of a deal if you don't have them.
Nvidia's physx can run off the cpu in an amd based system, although performance can be bad if it's an older chip
Before I get ahead of myself, what are the immediate advantages I would see for upgrading the GPU but leaving all of my other specs as is? Will I get an FPS boost? Adding more heavy-duty settings like supersampled AA without frame decrease? Stuff like that?
I just want to have a good understanding of what I would gain/not gain if I pursue this method. I'm also wondering how much I could get selling my old GPU, in an attempt to cover some of the new one's costs.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
600ti or a 7950 are only $280 if your budget is tight, and as a bonus the 7950 comes with free copies of crysis 3,bioshock infinite, and farcry blood dragon.
or if your budget is less then a 7870 is $230 or a 660 (non-ti version) is $200.
As far as selling your old card, it's worth almost nothing now. Stick it in a box and save it as a backup or HTPC.
AA has always been something I've unchecked in games, since it's been reported that most titles don't show much of a visual difference when played on a big HDTV.
I've heard of some recent techniques that may be worth looking into, like downsampling.
What's the difference between these two?
Usually I've chalked it up to the more letters added to a PC component, the better it is.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
And if your mostly playing on a tv that's a few feet away, then yes things like AA and AF don't make as large of a difference, as you can't see the jaggies from the distance anyway. But that leaves you some free gpu power to increase things that you may see like shadows, textures, lighting effects, etc.
Right now I'm working with:
CPU:
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.67GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
GPU:
ATI Radeon HD 4850
RAM:
10.0GB
Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA=P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
HD
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
I put this together for about $900 in 2009. Is there anything I can do for comparable/less to either upgrade this or build a new one that would be a noticeable performance boost? I'm thinking of putting together a new one and using the old tower for a Steam Box.
but if your looking to build a whole new machine, then the computer build thread can get some something quite good for $700-800.
if you want two machines you can definitely get a better new machine within your price range, but that i5 setup with a new GPU would also work really well for current games.
you could potentially get a new videocard for that system and then build a cheaper system with the 4850 for your steambox
if your 2 rooms are close enough, and you either don't mind a cable along the baseboard, or can run it through a cold air return vent, or the wall then you can get hdmi cables up to 130' long off monoprice, and then you just add a usb extension cable of the same length to get you receiver for your controller into range.
and very lag free wireless hdmi systems also exist that will get you around 100' ranges.
If you can run cables for $100-200 then that would save you a bunch to spend on upgrades to a single machine.
Well! Yes. Awesome, excellent advice and this continues to be my cheapest computer/year ever.
Ooh. Maybe I can try using an SSD for my main drive too...
Edit: Oh, of course. I never look at the dang stickies.
But more people look at the Computer Build Thread , so you get advice on builds a little quicker over there.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=3989&seq=1&format=2
Specific builds from that link:
Foxconn RM3-H2 barebones - $59.99 (on sale)
Intel Core i3-2120 3.3GHz $104.99 (on sale)
4GB Gskill DDR3 RAM - $18.99
MSI Radeon 6570 - $54.99
Kingston Hyper X 120GB SSD - $64.99 (Black Friday deal)
Total: $303.95
If I had to do it over again, I'd go with this build:
Foxconn RM2-H2 barebones - almost identical to the RM3-H2 above - $59.99
Intel Pentium G630 2.7GHz - $64.99
4GB Gskill DDR3 RAM - $18.99
Powercolor 1GB Radeon 7750 low profile - $109.99
Seagate 500GB HDD - $64.99
Total: $318.99
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
Similar to what you folks are building:
I5 3750k
Corsair M4 256 gig ssd
8 gigs Kingston hyper-something or other
Gigabyte Geforce 660 TI
My desktop runs a Saphire Radeon 7850 OC and honestly I don't see much difference between it and the new Geforce card I picked up. If I could roll back I'd just grab a cheaper Radeon card. The cooling on the gigabyte geforce card is nice tho.
I also went with a Bitfenix Prodigy case, awesome looking and fun to build, but make sure you measure your power supply, I wasn't paying attention and bought one too big, I had to swap it with the one from my desktop. If your going modular, you really can't go bigger than 145 mm long.
I'm running Steam BPM with Plex, still trying to find a good netflix app, also trying to find a way to use my controller as a mouse for when I need it.
Basically, I want to never have to leave Big Picture mode for anything.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Since we were discussing earlier about solely upgrading my GPU, would this be the one to look into? Would the performance/benefits exceed the cards mentioned earlier, and would it still be compatible with my older specs?
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It might also cause a small price drop in the older gen cards, so compare that before buying as well.