I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.
But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin
Yup!
Because he went through shame and humiliation like Tywin did, but chose to see it from a slightly different perspective. He's the most like Tywin because he was forced to prove himself, to an even greater degree than Tywin did. By ensuring that his other children didn't go through that, he ultimately stunted their growth. Turns out being told your the best goddamn thing ever from a young age isn't quite as good for you as you might think. Or at least, it doesn't make you leadership material.
PS:Jaime started to step up his game only after he lost his hand. Maybe that's also significant here from a thematic standpoint?
I straight up had to look up who Waymar Royce was before I remembered him. And now I want a prequel all about him.
"It was the best of times, it was the Royce of times..."
The Royce's are one of more prevelant Vale houses in the books. Nestor Royce is The Lord of the keep that sits at the base of the Eyrie.
His older brother Yohn Royce is known as "Bronze Yohn" and gets name dropped a bunch. One of the younger Royce's was part of Renly's Rainbow Guard.
It's one of the lovely bits about the books that is (rather unavoidably) lost in the TV show, all those heaps of other minor families and histories and local legends that permeate the books, so that when you actually meet a speaking member of the family you already feel like you know a bunch about them, like they've always existed in this universe instead of being a "new" character.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I straight up had to look up who Waymar Royce was before I remembered him. And now I want a prequel all about him.
"It was the best of times, it was the Royce of times..."
The Royce's are one of more prevelant Vale houses in the books. Nestor Royce is The Lord of the keep that sits at the base of the Eyrie.
His older brother Yohn Royce is known as "Bronze Yohn" and gets name dropped a bunch. One of the younger Royce's was part of Renly's Rainbow Guard.
The only one of those I actually have any collection of is Bronze Yohn if only because yeah, I remember his name does get mentioned a lot. Hell if I'm gonna remember the names of Renly's knights though.
And for the record I have read the books. I'm just not gonna remember the names of the very extended cast of secondary characters. Especially not characters from the Vale, aka, 'Never-Actually-Do-Anything' Land.
Bronze Yohn is notable because he has a suit of friggin bronzed plate armour that is a thousand years old and all covered in runes, that is sort of insane
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.
But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin
Yup!
Because he went through shame and humiliation like Tywin did, but chose to see it from a slightly different perspective. He's the most like Tywin because he was forced to prove himself, to an even greater degree than Tywin did. By ensuring that his other children didn't go through that, he ultimately stunted their growth. Turns out being told your the best goddamn thing ever from a young age isn't quite as good for you as you might think. Or at least, it doesn't make you leadership material.
PS:Jaime started to step up his game only after he lost his hand. Maybe that's also significant here from a thematic standpoint?
One part from Feast (I think it was Feast) that always stuck with me for some reason:
It's mentioned at some point that Tywin's sister tells him Tyrion is the one Lannister kid that's most like him, and he cuts her off/doesn't speak to her again for months.
Oh snaps guys! Tube is seeing pink! (Worst. Joke. Evar.)
I think a lot of people agree that AFfC and ADwD are the weakest and/or slowest books in the series thus far. There is definitely a lot of moving around with not as much happening, per se. Book 3 establishes that "anything can happen", so you expect the next few books to have more amazing plot twists and crazy story arcs, but instead it largely deals with slower-paced character development and, well, a lot of travel.
Honestly, it would probably not be so jarring were the books not so poorly structured for publication purposes. I really, really think that when everything is done, the GRRM and the publisher need to sit down and reorganize AFfC/ADwD into different books that are actually more chronological, thematically consistent, and provide better plot arcs. Literally the only reason those books are grouped by geography is because that was the material GRRM had ready at the time and the publisher needed to put something out that could feasibly be printed.
It's those issues which really affect the quality of the last two books moreso than the writing itself. Although there is also the issue that GRRM originally intended most of the content of the last two books to be skipped entirely and told in flashbacks, so that may have affected how quickly things move along as well...
After A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords, Martin originally intended to write three more books.[15] The fourth book, tentatively titled A Dance with Dragons, was to focus on Daenerys Targaryen's return to Westeros and the associated conflicts.[21] Martin wanted to set this story five years after A Storm of Swords so that the younger characters could grow older and the dragons grow larger.[30] Agreeing with his publishers early on that the new book should be shorter than A Storm of Swords, Martin set out to write the novel closer in length to A Clash of Kings.[24] A long prologue was to establish what had happened in the meantime, initially just as one chapter of Aeron Damphair on the Iron Islands at the Kingsmoot. Since the events on the Iron Islands were to have an impact in the book and could not be told with existing POV characters, Martin eventually introduced three new viewpoints.[31]
In 2001, Martin was still optimistic that the fourth installment might be released in the last quarter of 2002.[22] However, the five-year gap did not work for all characters during writing. On one hand, Martin was unsatisfied with covering the events during the gap solely through flashbacks and internal retrospection. On the other hand, it was implausible to have nothing happening for five years.[30] After working on the book for about a year, Martin realized he needed an additional interim book, which he called A Feast for Crows.[30] The book would pick up the story immediately after the third book, and Martin scrapped the idea of a five-year gap.[22] The material of the written 250-page prologue was mixed in as new viewpoint characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands.[31] These expanded storylines and the resulting story interactions complicated the plot for Martin.[32]
The manuscript length of A Feast For Crows eventually surpassed A Storm of Swords.[30] Martin was reluctant to make the necessary deep cuts to get the book down to publishable length, as that would have compromised the story he had in mind. Printing the book in "microtype on onion skin paper and giving each reader a magnifying glass" was also not an option for him.[24] On the other hand, Martin rejected the publishers' idea of splitting the narrative chronologically into A Feast for Crows, Parts One and Two.[3] Being already late with the book, Martin had not even started writing all characters' stories[33] and also objected to ending the first book without any resolution for its many viewpoint characters as in previous books.[30]
With the characters spread out across the world,[34] a friend suggested that Martin divide the story geographically into two volumes, of which A Feast for Crows would be the first.[3] This approach would give Martin the room to complete his commenced story arcs as he had originally intended,[24] which he still felt was the best approach years later.[34] Martin moved the unfinished characters' stories set in the east (Essos) and north (Winterfell and the Wall) into the next book, A Dance with Dragons,[35] and left A Feast for Crows to cover the events on Westeros, King's Landing, the Riverlands, Dorne, and the Iron Islands.[24] Both books begin immediately after the end of A Storm of Swords,[34] running in parallel instead of sequentially, and involve different casts of characters with only little overlap.[24] Martin split Arya's chapters into both books after having already moved the three other most popular characters (Jon Snow, Tyrion and Daenerys) into A Dance with Dragons.[35]
If I have one complaint about ASoIaF it's that I am basically amazed that at book 4 GRRM suddenly starts caring about things like "distance" and "time it takes people to travel huge distances when they don't have cars or planes" when over the previous three books he hasn't given two shits about that and how it tortuously drags out the story.
If I had two complaints it would be that I don't give no fucks about the Greyjoys. They are dumb and their chapters are dumb.
I actually do think Cersei's chapters made her more sympathetic, though
they prove that she really is just evil and paranoid to the point of insanity, but they also indicate that most of it originates from her love for her children (and a lot of the insanity is bound up in Joffrey's death and her terror of what might happen to Tommen/Myrcella)
it's just that she has a really stupid idea of what's good for her children, and she's really kind of a stupid person
I also always enjoy how Cersei's good at taking power but she's really, really bad at actually using it
Also her self serving ideals and spoiled attitude obviously come straight from her father. It's no coincidence that the smartest and kindest of the Lannister kids was the one rejected by Tywin, and learning about Cersei's psyche helped drive the point home that no, Tywin's ideals aren't sustainable, because this is what those ideals instilled from an early age ultimately create. You can't destroy every threat, because then you have no one to tell you your wrong.
But Tyrion himself notes that he's the one most like Tywin
Yup!
Because he went through shame and humiliation like Tywin did, but chose to see it from a slightly different perspective. He's the most like Tywin because he was forced to prove himself, to an even greater degree than Tywin did. By ensuring that his other children didn't go through that, he ultimately stunted their growth. Turns out being told your the best goddamn thing ever from a young age isn't quite as good for you as you might think. Or at least, it doesn't make you leadership material.
PS:Jaime started to step up his game only after he lost his hand. Maybe that's also significant here from a thematic standpoint?
Actually it's because
Jamie and Cersei are secretly Targaryens because Tywin was cuckolded by Aerys, explaining the animosity between the two, the incest, and Cersei's hereditary insanity. All this is confirmed when Jamie's "aunt" tells him that Tyrion is Tywin's son, not him.
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
is that a joke about the faceless men
they're very sensitive about that
It wasn't when I wrote it but it totally is now.
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
the spoiling isn't so much for the person who's about to read Dance, it's for the people who don't know how the time between where we currently are in the show and where dance starts goes
talking about major characters pretty much confirms they're still alive (which is a bit of a spoiler in this series)
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
the spoiling isn't so much for the person who's about to read Dance, it's for the people who don't know how the time between where we currently are in the show and where dance starts goes
talking about major characters pretty much confirms they're still alive (which is a bit of a spoiler in this series)
Listen man. They have a thread, where it is VERY CLEAR that there are NO BOOKS. And if they don't want ANY SPOILERS, that is their safe haven, and that is where they should stay. Sure, mentioning a character confirms they're alive, but spoilers abound in the internets, and if you stray outside of the designated SHOW ONLY zone, well, guess what. Shit has been out for 3, 7, and 13+ years.
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
the spoiling isn't so much for the person who's about to read Dance, it's for the people who don't know how the time between where we currently are in the show and where dance starts goes
talking about major characters pretty much confirms they're still alive (which is a bit of a spoiler in this series)
this has been happening like every other post for the past two pages
Having finished and knowing what to expect from it, I didn't mind Feast too much once I stopped expecting something to happen. It's a book full of character moments rather than full of plot. If I'd read it when it came out, knowing that there'd be three years until the next one, I'd probably have hated it. As it is, knowing I can read the next one whenever I want, it's not too bad.
There's not a lot of character development though. Cersei's plot in particular takes a lot of time to tell us that Cersei would be a bad queen and is a pretty unpleasant person. The scales falling from Jaime's eyes seems like the most important thing that happened in her plot. Brienne's character is still Honourable And Good At Fighting. I enjoyed Arya's plot a lot, but found the end point frustrating. Presumably it's going to be two books until we find out what the fuck happened there, ditto Brienne's almost literal cliffhanger
Actually, Arya shows up in Dance.
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
the spoiling isn't so much for the person who's about to read Dance, it's for the people who don't know how the time between where we currently are in the show and where dance starts goes
talking about major characters pretty much confirms they're still alive (which is a bit of a spoiler in this series)
this has been happening like every other post for the past two pages
I just pointed it out because someone had just specifically mentioned the character in context of "things I don't know about Dance"
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
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"It was the best of times, it was the Royce of times..."
The Royce's are one of more prevelant Vale houses in the books. Nestor Royce is The Lord of the keep that sits at the base of the Eyrie.
His older brother Yohn Royce is known as "Bronze Yohn" and gets name dropped a bunch. One of the younger Royce's was part of Renly's Rainbow Guard.
Yup!
PS:Jaime started to step up his game only after he lost his hand. Maybe that's also significant here from a thematic standpoint?
It's one of the lovely bits about the books that is (rather unavoidably) lost in the TV show, all those heaps of other minor families and histories and local legends that permeate the books, so that when you actually meet a speaking member of the family you already feel like you know a bunch about them, like they've always existed in this universe instead of being a "new" character.
Cersei doesn't comprehend that there are ways to handle threats without annihilating them
And for the record I have read the books. I'm just not gonna remember the names of the very extended cast of secondary characters. Especially not characters from the Vale, aka, 'Never-Actually-Do-Anything' Land.
Cersei is Betty Draper!
One part from Feast (I think it was Feast) that always stuck with me for some reason:
If I have one complaint about ASoIaF it's that I am basically amazed that at book 4 GRRM suddenly starts caring about things like "distance" and "time it takes people to travel huge distances when they don't have cars or planes" when over the previous three books he hasn't given two shits about that and how it tortuously drags out the story.
If I had two complaints it would be that I don't give no fucks about the Greyjoys. They are dumb and their chapters are dumb.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Err, my point was that if the HBO series was cancelled before it ended. Maybe the wording wasn't clear...
Moon Boy
this will never, ever, ever, ever, ever happen
they are going to go until they cannot go no more
Actually it's because
he is of the night
I believe she is the only character who got face time in both books.
=_= Just in case you don't care to know anything about Goddamned anything in Dance with Dragons.
this is kind of a spoiler
is that a joke about the faceless men
they're very sensitive about that
It wasn't when I wrote it but it totally is now.
the spoiling isn't so much for the person who's about to read Dance, it's for the people who don't know how the time between where we currently are in the show and where dance starts goes
talking about major characters pretty much confirms they're still alive (which is a bit of a spoiler in this series)
Listen man. They have a thread, where it is VERY CLEAR that there are NO BOOKS. And if they don't want ANY SPOILERS, that is their safe haven, and that is where they should stay. Sure, mentioning a character confirms they're alive, but spoilers abound in the internets, and if you stray outside of the designated SHOW ONLY zone, well, guess what. Shit has been out for 3, 7, and 13+ years.
this has been happening like every other post for the past two pages
I just pointed it out because someone had just specifically mentioned the character in context of "things I don't know about Dance"
QUALITY POST A++ WOULD READ AGAIN!
I enjoyed your Roose puns, but these ones....not so much.
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