I don't want to be all "lel l2p n00b" but Thunder Surge is significantly less powerful than it initially appears to be. I used to have a ton of trouble with it until I began playing around it. Like Wrath of God it is a staple that almost every deck that can play will play. When an Energy deck hits 5 Energy spread your guys out unless you are willing to risk losing them in return for the result of this turn. That 5 Energy can turn into 6 and a Thunder.
I agree that adding the option to mulligan will help the game and reduce the element of chance, but due to being guaranteed both a card and a resource every turn and being able to sift through 3 cards a turn once you hit 5/6 not playing creatures early on is much less of a big deal than in Magic.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
So I was getting bored with the obvious growth or energy or order approach to deck building, and decided to do all three with the full 18 Memorials to get the resources going.
It's crazy (and probably suicidal) but when it works it's crazy fun. I finished a game in Quick Match with over 40 resources to spend each turn. One of my first tests against medium AI I reached 66 resources before I managed to win...
I don't want to be all "lel l2p n00b" but Thunder Surge is significantly less powerful than it initially appears to be. I used to have a ton of trouble with it until I began playing around it. Like Wrath of God it is a staple that almost every deck that can play will play. When an Energy deck hits 5 Energy spread your guys out unless you are willing to risk losing them in return for the result of this turn. That 5 Energy can turn into 6 and a Thunder.
I agree that adding the option to mulligan will help the game and reduce the element of chance, but due to being guaranteed both a card and a resource every turn and being able to sift through 3 cards a turn once you hit 5/6 not playing creatures early on is much less of a big deal than in Magic.
'Spread your guys out' and 'play around it' aren't exactly simple matters when you're trying to attack & retain tempo, which aggro needs in order to win. Oh hey, I spread my guys out; now I can't get into position to attack any of your pieces. How wonderful!
WoG is an apt comparison in that 'playing around it' by, say, not casting creatures is a sure way to defeat if playing aggro against white control. In M:tG, you fought back against sweepers with things like redundant recursion, cards that replaced themselves upon dying and/or card draw. In Scrolls, right now, you have to either answer with your own sweeper or just scoop. I hope that changes in the future.
Is there a way to make it so the AI plays their turns a little slower? I was watching an LP and they basically do all their moves instantaneously and I couldn't even see what they do on their turn.
Is there a way to make it so the AI plays their turns a little slower? I was watching an LP and they basically do all their moves instantaneously and I couldn't even see what they do on their turn.
Don't think so, though you can see when movement happens and can check what cards were played at the top of the screen.
So why did I have to read this thread... Got Magic 2014 DOTP out June 26 and and then Hex Alpha in a couple months. My kids are at grandpa's for the week so I'm free to play the MA titles that have been languishing in my backlog and instead I want to spend $20 and play Scrolls instead. Must stay strong.
Huh. Just browsing through my Order cards, and, uh... New Orders seems really good, doesn't it? Moving all of your guys 2 squares instead of one square for 1 resource?
Am I missing something?
I've never seen it played, by either players or the AI.
I have had it played against me a couple times. Both times I had a mini-rage at the ridiculousness of the card. But I guess it is one of those things that if you're up a bit, it can help you get way up, but if you're down it's not going to help you. Hence, not many people run it?
Im looking to beef up my wolf growth deck. If anyone has a few extra cards that would work well for that deck let me know! I dont have much but i think i have a few things worth trading. I wont be online for a few more hours.
@Echo: That'll be sweet. Any word o if the new patch will include new cards?
This is my final E/G aggro list. Quake could replace Iron Whip and you'd have a much more solid package, but fuck it; what's the point of splashing E if you're not using any slots for it?
I'd rate it a C-, I think. It's fun and does it's job, but you'll find dead Iron Whips & the occasional Memorial with derpy grins on their card faces.
This deck is hilarious. it's not quite as consistent as I'd like, but a half decent hand feels so powerful.
EDIT: Also, I've heard a few users claim in trade chat that any cards we buy now are going to be wiped from our collections when the game goes out of Beta?
Anyone know if that's true or not? It only took a few days to get basically all of the cards I want, even when wasting maybe 1k or so on random crap, but still, that would kinda suck.
The latest in passive-aggressive wankery seems to be to just quit the game instead of surrendering, meaning it'll take two turn timeouts before you auto-concede.
The latest in passive-aggressive wankery seems to be to just quit the game instead of surrendering, meaning it'll take two turn timeouts before you auto-concede.
This has been super common in online CCG's for me.
Another "competitive" strategy is to play to the best of your ability, but only ever take your turn at the very, very last second possible. This way, you become such a frustrating opponent to play against that people will forfeit to you more than you win by skill!
I loved getting those guys in tournaments. This is what happens when the "overall timer" is too generous compared to the by turn timer.
Huh. Just browsing through my Order cards, and, uh... New Orders seems really good, doesn't it? Moving all of your guys 2 squares instead of one square for 1 resource?
I hope people don't think I am that sort of person. Just because I take a long time to think things through. Every turn.
Also there was a thread on reddit with a suggestion to have your next card draw happen at the end of your turn, which I think is a good idea. Aside from future cards manipulating your opponent's hand (which is almost inevitable) it would give me a clear picture of what I'm dealing with on the next turn, and should speed the game up.
He had lots of really lucky early draws and had a Ducal Skirmisher that he buffed up to 7/4 that just wrecked any defenses I could put up in a single turn, until I got lucky and pulled a Pushback to get his buffs out of my hair. Then I could finally build defenses that lasted for more than a turn and slowly chip him down.
Fighting a guy that has all kinds of memorials in his deck just as 1-health roadblocks. Surprisingly effective since he had lucky draws.
I played against someone with a deck like this recently. All memorials (every single type, I believe; they ended up with like 22/15/20 resources or something), removal, and a couple of Decimations and creatures (Sisters of the Fox and Kinsman Veterans only, I think). It was not a good deck. Frustrating as hell to play against, but the person never came even remotely close to winning. After a point, the only sensible strategy for me was to stop doing anything. Just sacrifice and end turn until I could cast a Great Wolf/Jarl, Rally, and a couple of buffs in a single turn to kill the last idol.
You know what might be interesting? If lowering an enemy unit's countdown to zero forced them to attack during your turn. It just stuck out to me that there's functionally no difference between one and zero for an enemy unit's countdown.
Also I like cards that can be cast on your units or enemy units depending on the situation, and this would create more opportunities for that.
The latest in passive-aggressive wankery seems to be to just quit the game instead of surrendering, meaning it'll take two turn timeouts before you auto-concede.
I didn't realize for a while that surrendering gave your opponent dick all for gold. -.- Honestly, I think it's kind of bullshit that you can't tap-out from a clearly lost game without being a dick to the guy/girl that beat you.
Yeah, these days if I reach a point where I have clearly lost a semi-close game that has dragged on for a while, I just skip my turns and let the other person finish me off rather than surrender to give them the gold. Although I'll still surrender sometimes if it's early in the game and I was just utterly shut down. Or if the other person is clearly dragging out the game on purpose to farm extra idols. I heard rumors that they're going to make it so the winner always gets at least 60 idol gold even after a surrender in the next patch, though.
A trickier problem: the reward system currently in place favors early surrenders too highly, I think. The difference between winning and losing a full game is the difference between 300 gold and like 40-50. So if you have a terrible first five minutes, it's probably optimal to just surrender immediately rather than try to turn it around if your top concern is maximizing gold efficiency.
A trickier problem: the reward system currently in place favors early surrenders too highly, I think. The difference between winning and losing a full game is the difference between 300 gold and like 40-50. So if you have a terrible first five minutes, it's probably optimal to just surrender immediately rather than try to turn it around if your top concern is maximizing gold efficiency.
Well, in fairness: gold farming is best done with AI games rather than PvP games right now anyway, so I'd kind of hope that anyone wanting absolute max gold efficiency would be busy killing bots.
Man the random single card buy is the way to go. Just got a God Hand and a Kinfolk Brave out of 5 draws. And a Wildling and a Plating.
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DyvionBack in Sunny Florida!!Registered Userregular
So here's my wishlist...
2x Rallying
3x Brother of the Wolf
2x Fertile Soil
2x Druid Burial Ground
2x Quake
3x Great Wolf
3x Kinfolk Brave
2x Kinfolk Jarl
3x Mangy Wolf
3x Ragged Wolf
3x Unleash Inner Power
3x Vitality Well
3x Ancestral Totem
3x Kinfolk Veteran
2x Rumble
3x Eye of Eagle
3x Frostbeard
3x Nutrition
2x God Hand
Total scrolls: 50
I just need to get 1 more godhand... and rumble, don't have any rumble.
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Okay, I'm turning to those with more experience. I have a Energy-Splashed-With-1-Cost-Growth deck that I'm enjoying. It does well against pure Energy decks and has good, close games with Order. Pure Growth, though? I can do nothing 75% of the time.
Now, outside "Have better luck on Drawing Scrolls" which is the counter to everything, is there an accepted Energy counter to, specifically, Great Wolves and their Wolf-Tide decks? They have too much health to direct damage down, they can easily eat an entire row of defenses in 1-2 turns and short of Iron Ogres (which I don't run, because the 7 cost ends up being too restraining in my deck) nothing I have can stand toe-to-toe without a Potion or Plating.
Okay, I'm turning to those with more experience. I have a Energy-Splashed-With-1-Cost-Growth deck that I'm enjoying. It does well against pure Energy decks and has good, close games with Order. Pure Growth, though? I can do nothing 75% of the time.
Now, outside "Have better luck on Drawing Scrolls" which is the counter to everything, is there an accepted Energy counter to, specifically, Great Wolves and their Wolf-Tide decks? They have too much health to direct damage down, they can easily eat an entire row of defenses in 1-2 turns and short of Iron Ogres (which I don't run, because the 7 cost ends up being too restraining in my deck) nothing I have can stand toe-to-toe without a Potion or Plating.
The two cards I fear the most playing against Energy are Potion of Resistance and Thunder Surge. It's hard to maintain any kind of decent offensive or defensive positioning with Thunder Surge to contend with, and if one wipes out your whole army it's extremely hard to recover. You also want Violent Dispersal if you don't have them already (they're expensive, though). You should have at least some form of cooldown reduction if you don't want to fall behind in aggression.
I don't know what your deck looks like, but I would recommend against relying too much on structures. I don't think I've ever not recovered from a Destroyer contain eventually. I find that I have the hardest time dealing with Gravelock decks due to Growth's inability to selectively snipe Elders, but a good Barrage/Concentrated Fire ranged can potentially work (its lynchpins are much more easily blitzed by Veterans and the like, though, so good defenses like potions or Hellspitter Mortars are twice as important).
Noaidi (Growth). Creature, 3/2/2, cost 3. When Noaidi comes into play, for each resource type your opponent has, increase that resource by 1.
Efficiency (Order). Spell, cost 1. Target unit gains +1 Attack until end of turn. If that unit kills another unit this turn, increase Energy by 1.
Dust Runner (Energy). Creature, 1/2/2, cost 1. Ranged. When Dust Runner deals damage to a creature with 3 or less Health, that creature is destroyed.
I'm a bit concerned about the balance implications of Noaidi. In mono Growth versus mono Growth you're dead in the water if you don't have it, but in mono Growth versus anything else it sucks. Growth is in dire need of a halfway decent 3 and I like seeing dual decks encouraged, but this could be messy. It might also make splashing Growth into something else undesirable, because a Growth-heavy opponent can so easily capitalize on it.
Not sold on Efficiency. It's usually a bad sign when playing a card is barely better than sacrificing it. Even if I had an O/E deck I don't think I would use it.
Dust Runner is cool, and a nice counter to Waking Stones and Potion of Resistance that fits in multiple decks.
Posts
I agree that adding the option to mulligan will help the game and reduce the element of chance, but due to being guaranteed both a card and a resource every turn and being able to sift through 3 cards a turn once you hit 5/6 not playing creatures early on is much less of a big deal than in Magic.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
It's crazy (and probably suicidal) but when it works it's crazy fun. I finished a game in Quick Match with over 40 resources to spend each turn. One of my first tests against medium AI I reached 66 resources before I managed to win...
'Spread your guys out' and 'play around it' aren't exactly simple matters when you're trying to attack & retain tempo, which aggro needs in order to win. Oh hey, I spread my guys out; now I can't get into position to attack any of your pieces. How wonderful!
WoG is an apt comparison in that 'playing around it' by, say, not casting creatures is a sure way to defeat if playing aggro against white control. In M:tG, you fought back against sweepers with things like redundant recursion, cards that replaced themselves upon dying and/or card draw. In Scrolls, right now, you have to either answer with your own sweeper or just scoop. I hope that changes in the future.
So why did I have to read this thread... Got Magic 2014 DOTP out June 26 and and then Hex Alpha in a couple months. My kids are at grandpa's for the week so I'm free to play the MA titles that have been languishing in my backlog and instead I want to spend $20 and play Scrolls instead. Must stay strong.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Am I missing something?
I've never seen it played, by either players or the AI.
This is my final E/G aggro list. Quake could replace Iron Whip and you'd have a much more solid package, but fuck it; what's the point of splashing E if you're not using any slots for it?
I'd rate it a C-, I think. It's fun and does it's job, but you'll find dead Iron Whips & the occasional Memorial with derpy grins on their card faces.
This deck is hilarious. it's not quite as consistent as I'd like, but a half decent hand feels so powerful.
EDIT: Also, I've heard a few users claim in trade chat that any cards we buy now are going to be wiped from our collections when the game goes out of Beta?
Anyone know if that's true or not? It only took a few days to get basically all of the cards I want, even when wasting maybe 1k or so on random crap, but still, that would kinda suck.
This has been super common in online CCG's for me.
Another "competitive" strategy is to play to the best of your ability, but only ever take your turn at the very, very last second possible. This way, you become such a frustrating opponent to play against that people will forfeit to you more than you win by skill!
I loved getting those guys in tournaments. This is what happens when the "overall timer" is too generous compared to the by turn timer.
"All your guys" includes your structures.
Also there was a thread on reddit with a suggestion to have your next card draw happen at the end of your turn, which I think is a good idea. Aside from future cards manipulating your opponent's hand (which is almost inevitable) it would give me a clear picture of what I'm dealing with on the next turn, and should speed the game up.
He had lots of really lucky early draws and had a Ducal Skirmisher that he buffed up to 7/4 that just wrecked any defenses I could put up in a single turn, until I got lucky and pulled a Pushback to get his buffs out of my hair. Then I could finally build defenses that lasted for more than a turn and slowly chip him down.
I played against someone with a deck like this recently. All memorials (every single type, I believe; they ended up with like 22/15/20 resources or something), removal, and a couple of Decimations and creatures (Sisters of the Fox and Kinsman Veterans only, I think). It was not a good deck. Frustrating as hell to play against, but the person never came even remotely close to winning. After a point, the only sensible strategy for me was to stop doing anything. Just sacrifice and end turn until I could cast a Great Wolf/Jarl, Rally, and a couple of buffs in a single turn to kill the last idol.
It was not a fun 40-some-odd rounds.
Also I like cards that can be cast on your units or enemy units depending on the situation, and this would create more opportunities for that.
Holy fucking shit this card. I love this card.
Mojang, never change this card.
I didn't realize for a while that surrendering gave your opponent dick all for gold. -.- Honestly, I think it's kind of bullshit that you can't tap-out from a clearly lost game without being a dick to the guy/girl that beat you.
A trickier problem: the reward system currently in place favors early surrenders too highly, I think. The difference between winning and losing a full game is the difference between 300 gold and like 40-50. So if you have a terrible first five minutes, it's probably optimal to just surrender immediately rather than try to turn it around if your top concern is maximizing gold efficiency.
Well, in fairness: gold farming is best done with AI games rather than PvP games right now anyway, so I'd kind of hope that anyone wanting absolute max gold efficiency would be busy killing bots.
2x Rallying
3x Brother of the Wolf
2x Fertile Soil
2x Druid Burial Ground
2x Quake
3x Great Wolf
3x Kinfolk Brave
2x Kinfolk Jarl
3x Mangy Wolf
3x Ragged Wolf
3x Unleash Inner Power
3x Vitality Well
3x Ancestral Totem
3x Kinfolk Veteran
2x Rumble
3x Eye of Eagle
3x Frostbeard
3x Nutrition
2x God Hand
Total scrolls: 50
I just need to get 1 more godhand... and rumble, don't have any rumble.
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
DoC is F2P, and grindy as fuck unless you want to pay for cards.
edit: that said, I feel DoC is a bit better at the whole "balanced game" thing than Scrolls.
Now, outside "Have better luck on Drawing Scrolls" which is the counter to everything, is there an accepted Energy counter to, specifically, Great Wolves and their Wolf-Tide decks? They have too much health to direct damage down, they can easily eat an entire row of defenses in 1-2 turns and short of Iron Ogres (which I don't run, because the 7 cost ends up being too restraining in my deck) nothing I have can stand toe-to-toe without a Potion or Plating.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
The two cards I fear the most playing against Energy are Potion of Resistance and Thunder Surge. It's hard to maintain any kind of decent offensive or defensive positioning with Thunder Surge to contend with, and if one wipes out your whole army it's extremely hard to recover. You also want Violent Dispersal if you don't have them already (they're expensive, though). You should have at least some form of cooldown reduction if you don't want to fall behind in aggression.
I don't know what your deck looks like, but I would recommend against relying too much on structures. I don't think I've ever not recovered from a Destroyer contain eventually. I find that I have the hardest time dealing with Gravelock decks due to Growth's inability to selectively snipe Elders, but a good Barrage/Concentrated Fire ranged can potentially work (its lynchpins are much more easily blitzed by Veterans and the like, though, so good defenses like potions or Hellspitter Mortars are twice as important).
I'm a bit concerned about the balance implications of Noaidi. In mono Growth versus mono Growth you're dead in the water if you don't have it, but in mono Growth versus anything else it sucks. Growth is in dire need of a halfway decent 3 and I like seeing dual decks encouraged, but this could be messy. It might also make splashing Growth into something else undesirable, because a Growth-heavy opponent can so easily capitalize on it.
Not sold on Efficiency. It's usually a bad sign when playing a card is barely better than sacrificing it. Even if I had an O/E deck I don't think I would use it.
Dust Runner is cool, and a nice counter to Waking Stones and Potion of Resistance that fits in multiple decks.
Here's a mod repo.